Germany and France Snub BIden Re China

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

54 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

If you aspire to be Christian, then remember to be humble.  

And, remember that charity to the poor is a fundamental tenet. 

This also refers to being spiritual poor, not just those without money.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

This also refers to being spiritual poor, not just those without money.

Please explain. 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

6 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Please explain. 

You can be rich in money but be miserable inside. CS Lewis called it the God-shaped hole in our lives.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Strangelovesurfing

[ronwagn + 6,290]

19 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

You can be rich in money but be miserable inside. CS Lewis called it the God-shaped hole in our lives.

I totally agree. Once you have "enough" money that you are comfortable it is all about prestige and other forms of power. The will to power is the mortal goal of most of the rich. Instead it should be to help mankind. Instead many of them want to legislate to make everyone else pay for what they should be doing with their own excess funds. I do not want such people choosing what my friends and family get for education, medical care, etc. No taxation without representation is a princiiple tenet of Americanism but is now largely ignored by the elites. 

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

Wanting to make a antichina alliance with western europe is a no-no, if there are countries that consider China an existential trheat that is Japan, Southeast Asia, and Russia

[Tomasz + 1,608]

I think that you would rather have a much better chance to convince Russia some day  to fear China than Germany and France or whole Europe.

Because is China a threat to Germany and France?

 I don't really see any rational reason for these countries to enter into some anti-Chinese alliance having powerful businesses with China, a country located more than 10,000 kilometers from their borders.

The only threat I can only imagine would probably be that China would launch a ballistic missile in their direction, but here is also bad luck because China has maybe 200-300 ballistic missiles.

The whole problem is that it will be extremely difficult to convince anyone in Europe that China is really a threat to him, especially that it is the first trading partner for most countries.

Europe had a real reason to build NATO against the USSR. But in my opinion there is no rational reason for Europe to enter into the anti-Chinese alliance, the more so that slowly better deals than with the USA can be done with China.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 2/12/2021 at 9:21 PM, El Nikko said:

I am 100% sure that Christ/God did want us to read the Bible and turn our world into the abomination it is today and my religion might be kind but not to the point of committing demographic/ social suicide by putting other religions or beliefs before our own...or in fact erasing our own history for the benefit of others who quite honestly do no belong.

I have nothing against other religions but they have their place else where and that is where they should stay.  

Isn't it funny how it's only Christianity and Europeans who are under constant attack...as if we've been worse that any other group in history which isn't true. No one dare criticize Muslims and certainly not the Jews (you must never do that) or any other history.

If you have nothing against other religions then why are you afraid of them practicing their beliefs in the country they were born??

Nobody is putting other beliefs before any others as far as I can see, and I wasn't aware it was a religious race to see who was the most important.

As for Europeans and Christianity being under constant attack I presume you mean verbally in today's MSM? Because history will show you that both Christians and European ones at that have very much been the ones doing the attacking/persecuting over the years.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Spanish-Inquisition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

https://www.ranker.com/list/most-unforgivable-things-the-catholic-church-has-done/lea-rose-emery

Unfortunately every religion is practiced by men and women who all have their own faults and interpretations of what that religion stands for. Therefore no 1 religion is better or worse than any other in my opinion.

I have no axe to grind with any religion, "live and let live" is a good motto. Personally I am an agnostic.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

11 hours ago, Tomasz said:

But in my opinion there is no rational reason for Europe to enter into the anti-Chinese alliance, the more so that slowly better deals than with the USA can be done with China

I think this is quite a naive statement. There are many reasons to be wary of a closer Chinese alliance than a US alliance as has been stated by many on numerous threads on Oil Price.

I ask you a hypothetical question, If China invaded Taiwan what should the EU's stance be on this in your opinion??

Do they sit back and watch the show, frightened to upset their great friend China?

Do they stand up for freedom and the liberty of Taiwan and assist other nations in rallying to the defence of the Taiwanese people?

Do they defer to the ruling of that impotent organisation the UN?

I'm interested in what the EU would likely do politically in such a situation. Personally i think they've lost their balls.

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

On 2/14/2021 at 10:12 PM, Tomasz said:

I think that you would rather have a much better chance to convince Russia some day  to fear China than Germany and France or whole Europe.

Because is China a threat to Germany and France?

 I don't really see any rational reason for these countries to enter into some anti-Chinese alliance having powerful businesses with China, a country located more than 10,000 kilometers from their borders.

The only threat I can only imagine would probably be that China would launch a ballistic missile in their direction, but here is also bad luck because China has maybe 200-300 ballistic missiles.

The whole problem is that it will be extremely difficult to convince anyone in Europe that China is really a threat to him, especially that it is the first trading partner for most countries.

Europe had a real reason to build NATO against the USSR. But in my opinion there is no rational reason for Europe to enter into the anti-Chinese alliance, the more so that slowly better deals than with the USA can be done with China.

Russia is a country that is dying as a nation, and in the strategic eyes of the russian having a country with 10 times more population, 10 times more gdp, in the outsides of empty siberia is a existential threat, Mongolia invaded russia successfully, and if it wasn't for the nuclear arsenal, China could invade Russia in 2 months

Alexandr dugin 20 years ago written a book about how to advance Russian interest, isolating the UK out of the way, put france in a friendly position so they concentrate more in west africa rather than Europe, fomenting chaos and divison in the USA, trying to be friends with Japan and Germany, and at all cost China must be Destroyed

Edited February 16, 2021 by Sebastian Meana

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/14/2021 at 9:25 AM, Sebastian Meana said:

Wanting to make a antichina alliance with western europe is a no-no, if there are countries that consider China an existential trheat that is Japan, Southeast Asia, and Russia

What is your rationale?

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/14/2021 at 7:12 PM, Tomasz said:

I think that you would rather have a much better chance to convince Russia some day  to fear China than Germany and France or whole Europe.

Because is China a threat to Germany and France?

 I don't really see any rational reason for these countries to enter into some anti-Chinese alliance having powerful businesses with China, a country located more than 10,000 kilometers from their borders.

The only threat I can only imagine would probably be that China would launch a ballistic missile in their direction, but here is also bad luck because China has maybe 200-300 ballistic missiles.

The whole problem is that it will be extremely difficult to convince anyone in Europe that China is really a threat to him, especially that it is the first trading partner for most countries.

Europe had a real reason to build NATO against the USSR. But in my opinion there is no rational reason for Europe to enter into the anti-Chinese alliance, the more so that slowly better deals than with the USA can be done with China.

To me, trading with those who abuse their own people is a bad policy. I am thinking of Hong Kong, Manchuria, Uighurs, Tibet, Mongolia, Falun Gong etc. We should also not participate in the next Olympics if held in China. We need to cultivate allies and trading partners who are in line with our ethics. We need to set an example for the world. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:36 AM, ronwagn said:

To me, trading with those who abuse their own people is a bad policy. I am thinking of Hong Kong, Manchuria, Uighurs, Tibet, Mongolia, Falun Gong etc. We should also not participate in the next Olympics if held in China. We need to cultivate allies and trading partners who are in line with our ethics. We need to set an example for the world. 

In the past we have been capable of differentiating between good and bad moral/humane actions, and focussing our trade policies on the good while condemning and not participating in the bad.  I.e. when products are made fairly and with good treatment of workers, we can participate and encourage such activity; similarly, when the opposite is true we can withhold participation and condemn them.

Of course, that was when we had reliable foreign service administrations and human rights policies with some teeth provided by the Executive Branch.  Under the current administration, what happens in the Middle Kingdom stays in the Middle Kingdom.

[Hotone + 412]

On 2/19/2021 at 8:36 AM, ronwagn said:

To me, trading with those who abuse their own people is a bad policy. I am thinking of Hong Kong, Manchuria, Uighurs, Tibet, Mongolia, Falun Gong etc. We should also not participate in the next Olympics if held in China. We need to cultivate allies and trading partners who are in line with our ethics. We need to set an example for the world. 

And what would be the example that you are setting for the world?  Everything is fake including the freedoms that you boast - they are illusions projected by your MSM and alternative truth media.  Listen to this European guy:

He mentions, e.g., incarceration rates; not only does the US have the highest number of people in prison in the world, the incarceration rate is so high that even China, which is a poorer country with 4.5 times the population has 30% fewer people in prison.  Why are there so many dangerous criminals in the US?

America is a surveillance society , having the second largest number of CCTVs after China.  Moreover, American Tech companies and the NSA collect data on all the people of the world.  This is worse than China which only collects data on its own citizens.

The USA practically only has 2 political parties, which is just 1 more than China.  Compare this with the Netherlands which has 15 political parties and India which has 38 political parties represented in parliament.

The US has a large lobbying industry, which basically buys up the president and politicians.  America is controlled by rich individuals and corporations who are able to drive policies thorough their lobbyists.

In America, everything is driven by money.  So the rich are able to buy more freedoms than the poor.

Etc., Etc.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Hotone

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Hotone said:

And what would be the example that you are setting for the world?  Everything is fake including the freedoms that you boast - they are illusions projected by your MSM and alternative truth media.  Listen to this European guy:

He mentions, e.g., incarceration rates; not only does the US have the highest number of people in prison in the world, the incarceration rate is so high that even China, which is a poorer country with 4.5 times the population has 30% fewer people in prison.  Why are there so many dangerous criminals in the US?

America is a surveillance society , having the second largest number of CCTVs after China.  Moreover, American Tech companies and the NSA collect data on all the people of the world.  This is worse than China which only collects data on its own citizens.

The USA practically only has 2 political parties, which is just 1 more than China.  Compare this with the Netherlands which has 15 political parties and India which has 38 political parties represented in parliament.

The US has a large lobbying industry, which basically buys up the president and politicians.  America is controlled by rich individuals and corporations who are able to drive policies thorough their lobbyists.

In America, everything is driven by money.  So the rich are able to buy more freedom than the poor.

Etc., Etc.

 

 

There is some truth in what you stated but we have freedoms guaranteed in our constitution that are largely accepted. Yes they are in danger of being ignored by some in the judiciary and law enforcement and in the government at all levels. Every government I know of has fascist tendencies. North Korea is probably the worst example, but China keeps them like a pet attack dog. China is possibly the second most tyrannical govenment in the world but there are many others to consider. America is on the most free along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Western Europe. Most of Eastern Europe also. 

It is a constant fight to preserve freedom in America or any other free nation. You seem to be on the side of totalitarianism as you are continually defending China. That has to be taken into consideration on all of your posts. 

 

[Hotone + 412]

20 hours ago, ronwagn said:

There is some truth in what you stated but we have freedoms guaranteed in our constitution that are largely accepted. Yes they are in danger of being ignored by some in the judiciary and law enforcement and in the government at all levels. Every government I know of has fascist tendencies. North Korea is probably the worst example, but China keeps them like a pet attack dog. China is possibly the second most tyrannical govenment in the world but there are many others to consider. America is on the most free along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Western Europe. Most of Eastern Europe also. 

It is a constant fight to preserve freedom in America or any other free nation. You seem to be on the side of totalitarianism as you are continually defending China. That has to be taken into consideration on all of your posts. 

 

I see nothing wrong with China's totalitarianism.  I worked on contract for a Chinese company a few years back, and I can tell you that some of my Chinese colleagues are very well off.  As an expat in Malaysia, my ex-boss sent his daughter to an American International school, which is  expensive, and she later got admitted to Harvard.  Another colleague was sent to Europe, and I can see from his Facebook that he drives a big BMW and wears designer clothes.  They have been getting richer and richer and have a good lifestyle.  If that is communism, give me some.

On the other hand, Malaysia, where I am from, is a democracy, but is is run as a kleptocracy.  We can change the government but can't stop the stealing. It's like your 'swamp' in America, only worse. We are getting poorer and dropping in the competitive rankings in our region.

Besides, I have been to Shanghai in 1994, and then again in 2019.  I can tell you that China has undergone spectacular improvements.  I have watched some videos where foreigners have described their lifestyle as the best time ever, that Shanghai is better than Paris, that it's like Paradise. 

Listen to this girl who had to leave China and go back to Germany.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Hotone

[ronwagn + 6,290]

21 hours ago, Hotone said:

I see nothing wrong with China's totalitarianism.  I worked on contract for a Chinese company a few years back, and I can tell you that some of my Chinese colleagues are very well off.  As an expat in Malaysia, my ex-boss sent his daughter to an American International school, which is  expensive, and she later got admitted to Harvard.  Another colleague was sent to Europe, and I can see from his Facebook that he drives a big BMW and wears designer clothes.  They have been getting richer and richer and have a good lifestyle.  If that is communism, give me some.

On the other hand, Malaysia, where I am from, is a democracy, but is is run as a kleptocracy.  We can change the government but can't stop the stealing. It's like your 'swamp' in America, only worse. We are getting poorer and dropping in the competitive rankings in our region.

Besides, I have been to Shanghai in 1994, and then again in 2019.  I can tell you that China has undergone spectacular improvements.  I have watched some videos where foreigners have described their lifestyle as the best time ever, that Shanghai is better than Paris, that it's like Paradise. 

Listen to this girl who had to leave China and go back to Germany.

 

Shanghai, Hong Kong, and other top spots are not representative of most of China from what I have heard. Lots of Chinese moving to America, Canada, etc.  along with their money. Consider that too. Voting with their feet. 

[surrept33 + 612]

21 hours ago, Hotone said:

I see nothing wrong with China's totalitarianism.  I worked on contract for a Chinese company a few years back, and I can tell you that some of my Chinese colleagues are very well off.  As an expat in Malaysia, my ex-boss sent his daughter to an American International school, which is  expensive, and she later got admitted to Harvard.  Another colleague was sent to Europe, and I can see from his Facebook that he drives a big BMW and wears designer clothes.  They have been getting richer and richer and have a good lifestyle.  If that is communism, give me some.

On the other hand, Malaysia, where I am from, is a democracy, but is is run as a kleptocracy.  We can change the government but can't stop the stealing. It's like your 'swamp' in America, only worse. We are getting poorer and dropping in the competitive rankings in our region.

Besides, I have been to Shanghai in 1994, and then again in 2019.  I can tell you that China has undergone spectacular improvements.  I have watched some videos where foreigners have described their lifestyle as the best time ever, that Shanghai is better than Paris, that it's like Paradise. 

Listen to this girl who had to leave China and go back to Germany.

 

Deng Xiaoping said "Let some people get rich first". Of course, politically, Xi is more Mao and a anti-Deng Xiaoping. 

Historically, the size of economies were pretty much related to population/population density:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2000-years-economic-history-one-chart/

Then the industrial revolution happened and it became about natural resources. I think the globalization that the internet allows over borders probably has led to more cross border collaboration than ever due to inexpensive and immersive (e.g people spend a lot of time) digital information/communication. If you extrapolate out about 20 years into the future I doubt this will stop and if nothing will probably accelerate, so I'll guesstimate your economic "reach" is potentially the size of this, how do you monetize?  https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ 

Hell, your average web browser even says this (about page): https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

I've seen a lot of Chinese be very consumer goods status oriented. That's silly especially these days when advertising/marketing is weaponized via algorithms doing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation I guess it's a immergant cultural quirk, but culture tends to change fast. 

That being said, I'm much more high on the US than China because we truly are a nation of nations (e.g, a melting pot of many cultures and diverse ideas competing against each other), though we sometimes forget about the strength of our diversity. Over the long term, I think for all of our warts, the American system "wins" in the end because it makes people more adaptive to change, the only constant in the universe. But what is the "game" being played? are groups or even entire countries stuck in prisoner's dilemmas? 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:06 PM, Hotone said:

And what would be the example that you are setting for the world?  Everything is fake including the freedoms that you boast - they are illusions projected by your MSM and alternative truth media.  Listen to this European guy:

He mentions, e.g., incarceration rates; not only does the US have the highest number of people in prison in the world, the incarceration rate is so high that even China, which is a poorer country with 4.5 times the population has 30% fewer people in prison.  Why are there so many dangerous criminals in the US?

America is a surveillance society , having the second largest number of CCTVs after China.  Moreover, American Tech companies and the NSA collect data on all the people of the world.  This is worse than China which only collects data on its own citizens.

The USA practically only has 2 political parties, which is just 1 more than China.  Compare this with the Netherlands which has 15 political parties and India which has 38 political parties represented in parliament.

The US has a large lobbying industry, which basically buys up the president and politicians.  America is controlled by rich individuals and corporations who are able to drive policies thorough their lobbyists.

In America, everything is driven by money.  So the rich are able to buy more freedoms than the poor.

Etc., Etc.

 

 

1 In State like Cali, they started decriminalizing criminal, it is not a success. US is a big country with too much freedoms for illegal stuffs. The freedom of US originally came from user pay, no income tax until  the Civil War. 

2 Again, look at the population and the reason of 1. 

3 China collects data on other as well whenever they can.

4 US Presidents don't have that much control on policies like Prime minister.  In other systems, the prime minister will have majority alliances in congress already. Further more US has a large number of states and it would be chaos with a large number of parties. India is not an example of success. 

Many Europe social think tanks or op-ed left out one 1 thing: scalability.  Small countries would have no fat for politicians and more simple and more transparent so people can maximize their people's productivity. What choice do their politicians have? US 360 millions, China 1.4 bill and India 1.3 bill are all struggling with their political system. Or these think tanks are not rational enough or they hate US and want to demonstrate why their countries are better.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by SUZNV

[SUZNV + 1,197]

Consolidate domestically power was always in China past, present and future.

If you think a world war 3 started with China, make China dominated the world in Military way, they will have to hit Russia first for the oil or they will run into resources trouble like Germany and Japan in WW2. They cannot defend a supply chain world wide and cannot reach ME with India next door. China military main job concentrate on keeping CCP in power, came from the elites class so don't count in the soldier morals and experience in modern warfare.

As a country that next to China for thousands years, I only worry when people in China have a army from poor people, not a rich elite army who are doing business. 

US has every resources inside for a long world war, North Native American weren't digging up much of these resources for thousand years , all they need is a wake up call for the people believed in the left. Still half of the countries still have the animal spirit of US I haven't seen elsewhere after all of these mainstream.

If you think China want to be an economics super power, you would expect every rich people in the world want to move to China and bring assets to China or talents want to come to China for working and settle down for retirement. Not for speculation and move out when no fat left.  China would  guard the wealth of the world, this requires lots of trust not from greed alone.

Biden is just out right proving Obama was never serious about stopping China. 70% of Biden administration staffs inherited since Obama. Xi can treated Obama or Biden poorly because they are easily predictable and  he needs to demonstrate his power to CCP and China people. Xi didn't dare to do much under Trump because Trump is unpredictable. Xi needs to slap Biden more after covid19 to scare others countries, after all the blame they got from Covid19.

Both China and US have the threats from the inside, either from what the people's important values or politicians's values. I actually think this is true for every country in this modern age. 

Xi knows all of this. He would have to choose to allocate the resources for consolidate power within China or to dominate the world like Hitler. China doesn't have infinite resources and moral to pursuit both. Even US would not  be where it is now without all of the super powers fighting each other in WW1&2 and even before that and the freedom and risk taking to innovate . I don't think Xi wants to go the hard way with that much risk. All he needs is to make the world politicians as corrupted as his Party rather than control the world.

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by SUZNV

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

16 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Shanghai, Hong Kong, and other top spots are not representative of most of China from what I have heard. Lots of Chinese moving to America, Canada, etc.  along with their money. Consider that too. Voting with their feet. 

I know a number of Germans that did NOT like going back to Germany from a whole list of countries, including of course the U.S.  Further, any young person who gets to go live in another country experiences the great relative freedom of not being under the microscope of their parents and peers when in another country, and again that is especially true for a young woman from Germany.  But when the money runs out, the parents call wanting grandchildren, or simply the fun wears off, it's home they go.

Now, if you find any stories of young German ladies that immigrate to China, do let us know.  You might have to scour the internet to find one or two in that scenario.

@ronwagn: this comment is not directed towards yours; it is directed at the one you replied to.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Dan Warnick

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Not all bloggers paint such a rosy picture.  In fact, once they leave and get back to the West their stories tend to show what they have been holding back on reporting on for a long time, until they get outside of the country and to the relative safety of their hometown democracies.

I'll leave it for each to make their own judgement.

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

17 hours ago, surrept33 said:

Deng Xiaoping said "Let some people get rich first". Of course, politically, Xi is more Mao and a anti-Deng Xiaoping. 

Historically, the size of economies were pretty much related to population/population density:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2000-years-economic-history-one-chart/

Then the industrial revolution happened and it became about natural resources. I think the globalization that the internet allows over borders probably has led to more cross border collaboration than ever due to inexpensive and immersive (e.g people spend a lot of time) digital information/communication. If you extrapolate out about 20 years into the future I doubt this will stop and if nothing will probably accelerate, so I'll guesstimate your economic "reach" is potentially the size of this, how do you monetize?  https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ 

Hell, your average web browser even says this (about page): https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

I've seen a lot of Chinese be very consumer goods status oriented. That's silly especially these days when advertising/marketing is weaponized via algorithms doing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segmentation I guess it's a immergant cultural quirk, but culture tends to change fast. 

That being said, I'm much more high on the US than China because we truly are a nation of nations (e.g, a melting pot of many cultures and diverse ideas competing against each other), though we sometimes forget about the strength of our diversity. Over the long term, I think for all of our warts, the American system "wins" in the end because it makes people more adaptive to change, the only constant in the universe. But what is the "game" being played? are groups or even entire countries stuck in prisoner's dilemmas? 

We are all prisoners of the rules, laws, people, and forces that have REAL power over us. Mao said power comes out of the barrel of a gun. He was right. Now Democrats have 5,000 natural guard troops in D.C. complete with high fences and razor wire. At the same time they are trying to pluck out any who have strong constitutional beliefs. The world is upside down. The only free people are those who make their choices carefully but boldly. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/16/2021 at 9:28 AM, Sebastian Meana said:

Russia is a country that is dying as a nation, and in the strategic eyes of the russian having a country with 10 times more population, 10 times more gdp, in the outsides of empty siberia is a existential threat, Mongolia invaded russia successfully, and if it wasn't for the nuclear arsenal, China could invade Russia in 2 months

Alexandr dugin 20 years ago written a book about how to advance Russian interest, isolating the UK out of the way, put france in a friendly position so they concentrate more in west africa rather than Europe, fomenting chaos and divison in the USA, trying to be friends with Japan and Germany, and at all cost China must be Destroyed

Russia, China, and the Democrat Party are all interested in dividing Americans and other nationalities against one another. I am sure we are doing the same thing with them. Strength comes from national unity. Weakness comes from relying on the United Nations and other such groups. They are an alliance of the weakest nations which vote for the worst leadership. We must form alliances with those who share our national values. Trade forms alliances as do common beliefs and war.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Ok, @Hotone.  Care to explain what you found funny about that video?