Texas forced to have rolling black outs, primarily because of large declines in output from fossil fuel power plants

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

For a bright guy, you've just written just about the most socialistic piece that you could have penned. Of course there are winners and losers in the oil patch--that's been the case with panning for gold, discovering the internet, building a good running shoe. That is the jewel of capitalism. 

As for Oklahoma, what "ugly history?" There was the Tulsa Race Riot, if that's what you're alluding to--that wasn't such a charming bit of history. But it wasn't Tulsa's doing that led to the Trail of Tears dumping out right at their doorstep. Most of the Cherokees coming up their namesake trail brought along slaves--blacks or other Indians--and they treated them badly. It was a very rough place. Do you believe that Dickensian England was a nicer spot? Or that your ancestors and mine were really nice to each other during the Dark Ages? The world has always been a dog eat dog place and always will be. That's just the way it is.

People mostly work for a living. A few choice folks invent things, or grasp an idea and run with it. But that doesn't mean they should share their wealth with others. Hopefully, in a good world, they will give charitably, but if you want to see true greed look no farther than some of the Big Tech boys and girls, or even Baptist preachers in Houston. The oil field has no monopoly on greed. 

The United States has been successful because it is large and rambunctious, a place where people spread out and try their best to exploit riches from the land but also welcome others (legally). There is a lot of very dark history in any place. Do you think medicine is an entirely compassionate profession, where greed and power don't corrupt? Or missionary work? Well, think again!

Texas and Oklahoma have some of the best people in the world living in them. They are no better nor no worse than other states. Oklahoma, the state with the "ugly past," didn't whimper when the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that a child rapist should have been been tried by a Creek Nation court, and in the doing basically said that one-half of Oklahoma belonged still to the Creek Nation. How many Democrat states do you know that would have had such a verdict handed down? And how many of them would have accepted the verdict with grace?

Grow up!

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

Despite Losing Power for Days, Texans Will Pay Higher Power Bills—Perhaps for Decades to Come

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/blackout-crisis-texans-electric-bills/

Excerpt:

 

The electricity shortages actually started in the natural gas market. On February 12, the day after the first round of ice blasted the state, the Texas Railroad Commission, which regulates the oil and gas industry, issued an emergency order that prioritized delivery of natural gas to residences, hospitals, schools, churches, and “other human needs customers.” That order, however, didn’t actually help the majority of Texans get heat. Only 40 percent rely on natural gas for heating; about 60 percent of Texas homes use electricity. The Railroad Commission’s order had an unintended consequence: power plants that use natural gas to create electricity had to wait in line.

As the cold settled in, the gas supply shrank drastically. Everything from wellheads in West Texas to pipeline equipment froze, creating a shortage. Local prices jumped  and averaged some $162 more than usual. Gas production in the Permian Basin, which had been running 11.5 billion cubic feet a day, fell to as little as just 3 billion. . . .

Griddy is an unusual electricity provider because it charges $9.99 a month in exchange for giving consumers access to the wholesale market. Most days, Griddy’s customers pay less than other consumers. As prices began climbing on February 11, it emailed customers encouraging them to switch to another provider. Those who didn’t were facing those $10,000-plus bills that generated national headlines.

By March 1, ERCOT had shut the company down. Attorney General Ken Paxton took time away from multiple personal legal problems and filed suit, accusing the company of deceptive trade practices.

But the plight of Griddy’s customers is now shared by retail providers, municipal utilities, and cooperatives who find themselves squeezed between soaring wholesale prices and fixed-price agreements with customers. They simply won’t be collecting enough from consumers to pay for the electricity delivered during the crisis. In other words, many companies and other entities that buy wholesale electricity are facing bills they can’t afford.

If you’re in the competitive retail market, and your retailer is forced out of business, you wind up with what’s known as a “provider of last resort.” Typically, these providers charge higher prices to customers who can’t buy power from any other company because of poor credit scores. Customers who find themselves in this situation can switch quickly—assuming that there are any other retailers left.

At a February 19 meeting, PUC commissioner Arthur D’Andrea said, “The promise of the ERCOT market is that private capital bears the risk, not ratepayers.” But D’Andrea also acknowledged that the financial impact on at least some retail providers, city-owned utilities, and co-ops could ultimately result in higher rates for residential consumers. Commercial customers raised similar concerns. In a filing with the PUC, the Coalition of Concerned Customers, an ad hoc group of 36 businesses and cities, suggested that “the impact of the $9,000 per megawatt-hour prices will be disproportionately felt by commercial and industrial customers.”

For example, a manufacturing company with a $19,000 electricity bill for January can expect a bill of almost $1.7 million for the same electricity use in February, the group said. Had the caps been lowered when they should have been, it would have shaved $90,000 off that bill. In the days after the storm, ERCOT demanded bigger down payments from retailers for future power purchases. Most simply can’t afford it.

Of course, feeding the outrage over this crisis is the knowledge that much of it was preventable. Texas has struggled to meet electricity demand at times of peak usage since 2011, when a February freeze knocked out power to thousands of homes. The state faced another shortage that summer. The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission reviewed those outages and recommended changes that included winterizing power plants and establishing power reserves for bad weather. FERC had made similar suggestions as far back as 1989, but they were never mandated.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Mr. Brown, you're posting a series of scare articles that mean absolutely nothing. 

The state of Texas is going to take care of most of these "exorbitant bills."

Stop it, please. You're scaring the kids. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

On 3/3/2021 at 8:07 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

You know, you really are a talented linguist. 

I'm surprised you haven't gone far. 

 

Just engage with him using fundamental's, that is where "it's" conversation end's. As to the linguist part of it's conversation...its just dribble, unwind it and one will find a black hole. Frankly i do enjoy both your intellect and Mr. van Eck's...To that point you will fine Mr. van eck generally just cuts off the conversation in a sharp angled commentary...

It would seem there is quite a bit of commentary about upgrading the grid, only to accommodate a hodge podged system of green energy generation. US grids were just fine prior to Green Generation, California's woes should be the clearest example of what not to do.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

18 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

The state of Texas is going to take care of most of these "exorbitant bills."

I'll believe it when I see it, and so far the PUC has refused to reverse any of the $9,000 per megawatt-hour charges. 

Meanwhile . . . 

Oldest Texas electricity co-op goes bust after getting hit with $2 billion bill

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brazos-electric-power-cooperative-bankruptcy-texas/

 

Excerpt:

The largest and oldest power cooperative in Texas is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, citing last month's winter storm that left millions of state residents without power. 

Brazos Electric Power Cooperative, which serves 16 distribution member co-ops that cater to more than 1.5 million Texans, said Monday that it accumulated $2.1 billion in bills during the severe cold that hit Texas between February 13 and 19. 

As temperatures plunged and snow and ice whipped the state over Valentine's Day weekend, much of Texas' power grid collapsed, followed by its water systems. Tens of millions huddled in frigid homes that slowly grew colder or fled for safety. With gas-fueled power plants offline, wells frozen, a nuclear power plant shut down and iced-over wind turbines, the state experienced a severe electricity shortage, and wholesale prices for electricity spiked as high at $9,000 per megawatt-hour.

The high prices, which are supposed to act as an incentive for power producers to create electricity, failed to lead to an increase in available power, since much of the state's production capacity was frozen over.  

Prior to the freeze, Brazos was "a financially robust, stable company with a clear vision for its future and a strong "A" to "A+" credit rating," higher than most electric coops, it said in a press release Monday.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

17 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

US grids were just fine prior to Green Generation

As noted above, if we draw a south to north line from Brownsville, Texas to the Canadian border, the only state with widespread power outages during the winter storm was Texas, primarily because of an almost 45% collapse in Texas gas production, plus conventional power plants freezing up.  

An excerpt from the Texas Monthly article linked above:

Of course, feeding the outrage over this crisis is the knowledge that much of it was preventable. Texas has struggled to meet electricity demand at times of peak usage since 2011, when a February freeze knocked out power to thousands of homes. The state faced another shortage that summer.

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission reviewed those outages and recommended changes that included winterizing power plants and establishing power reserves for bad weather. FERC had made similar suggestions as far back as 1989, but they were never mandated.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

14 minutes ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

As noted above, if we draw a south to north line from Brownsville, Texas to the Canadian border, the only state with widespread power outages during the winter storm was Texas, primarily because of an almost 45% collapse in Texas gas production, plus conventional power plants freezing up.  

An excerpt from the Texas Monthly article linked above:

Of course, feeding the outrage over this crisis is the knowledge that much of it was preventable. Texas has struggled to meet electricity demand at times of peak usage since 2011, when a February freeze knocked out power to thousands of homes. The state faced another shortage that summer.

The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission reviewed those outages and recommended changes that included winterizing power plants and establishing power reserves for bad weather. FERC had made similar suggestions as far back as 1989, but they were never mandated.

Have a read Jeffery, it is all telling.

https://www.powermag.com/ercot-lists-generators-forced-offline-during-texas-extreme-cold-event/

Perhaps a primer is in order

https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/why-does-the-electricity-grid-have-to-stay-in-balance/2136/

Edited March 7, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

On 3/7/2021 at 10:06 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Have a read Jeffery, it is all telling.

Perhaps I am missing something, but the numbers in your article appear to be in conflict (107.5 GW & 169 GW):

ERCOT has said about 48.6% of generation—52.3 GW out of Texas grid’s 107.5 GW total installed capacity—was forced out at the highest point due to the impacts of various extreme weather conditions. . . .

Listed natural gas generators led “megawatt reductions from outages/derates” with a total of 84,000 MW—nearly half of the 169,407 MW total—with total wind reductions coming in at 65,337 MW, followed by coal (14,878 MW), solar (3,690 MW), and nuclear (1,353 MW) from the outage at South Texas Project Unit 1. However, it suggests wind incidents lasted longer, an estimated total of 34,325 hours, versus 28,184 hours for natural gas. These preliminary insights, however, are skewed, given that the data includes 134 “blanks.”

 

In any case, the Texas Tribune, quoting ERCOT sources, reported that 62% of the reduction in power output came from thermal sources, natural gas, coal and nuclear, with the vast majority of that, as shown by the chart posted above, coming from fossil fuel sources, i.e., natural gas and coal, which was my original point.  

Also, the forecasted winter capacity was 86 GW, with wind forecasted to contribute only 7% of that amount. 

No, frozen wind turbines aren’t the main culprit for Texas’ power outages

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/texas-wind-turbines-frozen/

The Electric Reliability Council of Texas projected that 80% of the grid's winter capacity, or 67 gigawatts, could be generated by natural gas, coal and some nuclear power.

An official with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas said Tuesday afternoon that 16 gigawatts of renewable energy generation, mostly wind generation, were offline. Nearly double that, 30 gigawatts, had been lost from thermal sources, which includes gas, coal and nuclear energy.

By Wednesday, those numbers had changed as more operators struggled to operate in the cold: 45 gigawatts total were offline, with 28 gigawatts from thermal sources and 18 gigawatts from renewable sources, ERCOT officials said.

“Texas is a gas state,” said Michael Webber, an energy resources professor at the University of Texas at Austin. . . .

 

While wind power skeptics claimed the week’s freeze means wind power can’t be relied upon, wind turbines — like natural gas plants — can be “winterized,” or modified to operate during very low temperatures. Experts say that many of Texas’ power generators have not made those investments necessary to prevent disruptions to equipment since the state does not regularly experience extreme winter storms.

It’s estimated that of the grid’s total winter capacity, about 80% of it, or 67 gigawatts, could be generated by natural gas, coal and some nuclear power. Only 7% of ERCOT’s forecasted winter capacity, or 6 gigawatts, was expected to come from various wind power sources across the state.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

Texas House Speaker Unveils Plan to Prevent Repeat of State's Energy Crisis

https://www.nbcdfw.com/investigations/texas-house-speaker-unveils-plan-to-prevent-repeat-of-states-energy-crisis/2573255/

Excerpt:

Texas House Speaker Dade Phelan announced a package of legislation Monday aimed at preventing a repeat of the deadly electricity crisis that left millions of Texans suffering in a winter storm.

The plan includes legislation that would require electric generating facilities to be weatherized against a wider range of severe weather events.

Another proposed bill would direct the Texas Railroad Commission to adopt rules requiring natural gas supply systems to be better protected against winter weather, in order to ensure that power plants fueled by natural gas have adequate supply during a weather emergency.

The wide-ranging slate of legislation Phelan is advancing would bring ERCOT, which manages the state’s power grid, under tighter legislative control and would also create a more comprehensive warning system to alert Texans of approaching weather that could endanger the electric system.

 

My comment:  It would appear that the GOP controlled legislature is now belatedly trying to do what they failed to do a decade ago.

An excerpt from the Texas Monthly article:

Of course, feeding the outrage over this crisis is the knowledge that much of it was preventable. Texas has struggled to meet electricity demand at times of peak usage since 2011, when a February freeze knocked out power to thousands of homes. The state faced another shortage that summer. The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission reviewed those outages and recommended changes that included winterizing power plants and establishing power reserves for bad weather. FERC had made similar suggestions as far back as 1989, but they were never mandated.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[Boat + 1,323]

On 3/1/2021 at 2:34 PM, turbguy said:

Ratepayers and politicians criticized ERCOT?

You gotta wonder why.  ERCOT was the HERO!

I think they need to criticize the politicians and themselves. THEY are the ones that are amongst the root causes.

This is part of the swamp you here about. Texas is up to its mango roots with it.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

Perhaps I am missing something, but the numbers in your article appear to be in conflict (107.5 GW & 169 GW):

ERCOT has said about 48.6% of generation—52.3 GW out of Texas grid’s 107.5 GW total installed capacity—was forced out at the highest point due to the impacts of various extreme weather conditions. . . .

Listed natural gas generators led “megawatt reductions from outages/derates” with a total of 84,000 MW—nearly half of the 169,407 MW total—with total wind reductions coming in at 65,337 MW, followed by coal (14,878 MW), solar (3,690 MW), and nuclear (1,353 MW) from the outage at South Texas Project Unit 1. However, it suggests wind incidents lasted longer, an estimated total of 34,325 hours, versus 28,184 hours for natural gas. These preliminary insights, however, are skewed, given that the data includes 134 “blanks.”

 

In any case, the Texas Tribune, quoting ERCOT sources, reported that 62% of the reduction in power output came from thermal sources, natural gas, coal and nuclear, with the vast majority of that, as shown by the chart posted above, coming from fossil fuel sources, i.e., natural gas and coal, which was my original point.  

Also, the forecasted winter capacity was 86 GW, with wind forecasted to contribute only 7% of that amount. 

No, frozen wind turbines aren’t the main culprit for Texas’ power outages

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/texas-wind-turbines-frozen/

The Electric Reliability Council of Texas projected that 80% of the grid's winter capacity, or 67 gigawatts, could be generated by natural gas, coal and some nuclear power.

An official with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas said Tuesday afternoon that 16 gigawatts of renewable energy generation, mostly wind generation, were offline. Nearly double that, 30 gigawatts, had been lost from thermal sources, which includes gas, coal and nuclear energy.

By Wednesday, those numbers had changed as more operators struggled to operate in the cold: 45 gigawatts total were offline, with 28 gigawatts from thermal sources and 18 gigawatts from renewable sources, ERCOT officials said.

“Texas is a gas state,” said Michael Webber, an energy resources professor at the University of Texas at Austin. . . .

 

While wind power skeptics claimed the week’s freeze means wind power can’t be relied upon, wind turbines — like natural gas plants — can be “winterized,” or modified to operate during very low temperatures. Experts say that many of Texas’ power generators have not made those investments necessary to prevent disruptions to equipment since the state does not regularly experience extreme winter storms.

It’s estimated that of the grid’s total winter capacity, about 80% of it, or 67 gigawatts, could be generated by natural gas, coal and some nuclear power. Only 7% of ERCOT’s forecasted winter capacity, or 6 gigawatts, was expected to come from various wind power sources across the state.

Jeffery your posting the "RESULTS" Now focus on the "ROOT CAUSES" also keep in mind something called the domino effect. Why did this interwoven grid manifest those results?

It is also time to reflect on grid frequency...and imbalances. Run Amuck does come to mind.

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Jeffery your (Sic) posting the "RESULTS" Now focus on the "ROOT CAUSES"

I take it that the article you referenced didn't make any sense to you either?

Regarding causes, perhaps you missed the excerpt above about the GOP controlled Texas Legislature failing to implement the corrective measures  recommend by FERC in 2011 and as far back as 1989?  

In any case, as also noted above, the Republican Speaker of the House is now attempting to do what they should have done many years ago to avoid the following outcome:

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

25 minutes ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

I take it that the article you referenced didn't make any sense to you either?

Regarding causes, perhaps you missed the excerpt above about the GOP controlled Texas Legislature failing to implement the corrective measures  recommend by FERC in 2011 and as far back as 1989?  

In any case, as also noted above, the Republican Speaker of the House is now attempting to do what they should have done many years ago to avoid the following outcome:

Odd why would  you inject SIC postings, they are not sic but merely the results of what occurred. 

Are you having difficulty understanding the root causes, or better said the fundamental cause that lead to a cascade of failures?

Perhaps you are eluding political reliability? Asking for a friend.

 

[turbguy + 1,540]

Hmmmm...

Perhaps some parts of deregulation does not support reliability?

"Marcus Pridgeon is a former member of ERCOT’s Technical Advisory Committee and a former executive at two Texas power generating companies.  Pridgeon said a power plant that normally makes about $12,000 dollars an hour could have made $2-million dollars an hour if it was able to run during the storm.

“The carrot has to do with how much money can be made during these peak seasons,” said Pridgeon.

“I think that will be the debate that will be held in the legislature and at the public utility commission primarily in the coming months, because obviously, the carrot didn't work,” said Pridgeon"

Edited March 8, 2021 by turbguy

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

Even Texans with fixed electricity plans may face high energy costs due to this fee

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article249728743.html

My comments:

The City of Georgetown municipal electric authority apparently has 25,000 customers, presumably both residential and commercial.

The Star Telegram article indicated that they were hit with a bill for $17.8 million for Ancillary Services.  Following is an excerpt from a City of Georgetown notice of a virtual meeting.  Apparently, they are going to debt finance the total ERCOT bill for wholesale electricity costs + ancillary services, while just levying fixed rate charges to their customers.

http://georgetown.org/2021/03/05/electric-rates-and-winter-storm-faq/

Excerpt:

The City currently owes $44.8 million to ERCOT to cover about 3,000 megawatt hours between Feb. 14 and 20. The remaining 13,000 megawatt hours the City used during the storm were generated by providers at contracted rates. Roughly $17.8 million of what the City owes is for ancillary services, which are charges for reserve or on-demand power supply by ERCOT that cost as much as $25,000 per megawatt hour during the event. For context, the City paid $710,000 in ancillary services in all of 2020.

The remaining $27 million is for energy costs, which peaked at $9,000 per megawatt hour. Last month, the average cost per megawatt hour was $20.79. The $9,000 per megawatt hour maximum price was in effect in the ERCOT market for 70 hours from Feb. 16 to 19.

End Excerpt.

In any case, if you divide $17.8 million by 25,000 customers, the February, 2021 Ancillary Services charge is $712 per customer, without taking into account how much electricity that they used.  Based on the foregoing, the Ancillary Services charge per customer in 2020 was $2.37 per month.

The key question is how will electricity providers like Reliant and MidAmerican handle the Ancillary Services charges?  Based on the article, it would appear that MidAmerican is warning that a substantial bill could be coming.

[turbguy + 1,540]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

Even Texans with fixed electricity plans may face high energy costs due to this fee

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article249728743.html

My comments:

The City of Georgetown municipal electric authority apparently has 25,000 customers, presumably both residential and commercial.

The Star Telegram article indicated that they were hit with a bill for $17.8 million for Ancillary Services.  Following is an excerpt from a City of Georgetown notice of a virtual meeting.  Apparently, they are going to debt finance the total ERCOT bill for wholesale electricity costs + ancillary services, while just levying fixed rate charges to their customers.

http://georgetown.org/2021/03/05/electric-rates-and-winter-storm-faq/

Excerpt:

The City currently owes $44.8 million to ERCOT to cover about 3,000 megawatt hours between Feb. 14 and 20. The remaining 13,000 megawatt hours the City used during the storm were generated by providers at contracted rates. Roughly $17.8 million of what the City owes is for ancillary services, which are charges for reserve or on-demand power supply by ERCOT that cost as much as $25,000 per megawatt hour during the event. For context, the City paid $710,000 in ancillary services in all of 2020.

The remaining $27 million is for energy costs, which peaked at $9,000 per megawatt hour. Last month, the average cost per megawatt hour was $20.79. The $9,000 per megawatt hour maximum price was in effect in the ERCOT market for 70 hours from Feb. 16 to 19.

End Excerpt.

In any case, if you divide $17.8 million by 25,000 customers, the February, 2021 Ancillary Services charge is $712 per customer, without taking into account how much electricity that they used.  Based on the foregoing, the Ancillary Services charge per customer in 2020 was $2.37 per month.

The key question is how will electricity providers like Reliant and MidAmerican handle the Ancillary Services charges?  Based on the article, it would appear that MidAmerican is warning that a substantial bill could be coming.

This is REALLY going to ugly.

Maybe pay via bitcoin?

Edited March 8, 2021 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

46 minutes ago, turbguy said:

This is REALLY going to ugly.

Maybe pay via bitcoin?

Truth in lending comes to mind, how this grid was financed. Go back to the beginnings of this green movement, Solyndra.. how did that happen and who were the forces behind such malfeasance.

Due to the current political environment and administration, soon this speed will be put to bed.Ohh think the federal administration...as they say, Such Is Life.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Boat + 1,323]

Eyes wide sounds like the swamp. The largest amount of electricity lost by source was nat gas. Nat gas is not green. Glad we could clear that up. 
The State legislator had reports from two other large storms in the past that caused electricity disruption and ensuing reports recommended weatherization. The state did not mandate the changes necessary. The first storm being almost pre wind with the next storm being 10 years ago having some wind. So those first couple of storms showed quite clearly the problem with FF infrastructure in bad weather. 
In the recent storm the majority of freezing was from FF infrastructure. It’s true in this last storm wind turbines froze because the state did not mandate weatherization on old or new turbines as they should have. Your root cause is evident, the state swamp. Legislation usually occurs after tragic loss in life and money. Maybe this time around they will mandate weatherization to  Texas energy infrastructure.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

23 minutes ago, Boat said:

Eyes wide sounds like the swamp. The largest amount of electricity lost by source was nat gas. Nat gas is not green. Glad we could clear that up. 
The State legislator had reports from two other large storms in the past that caused electricity disruption and ensuing reports recommended weatherization. The state did not mandate the changes necessary. The first storm being almost pre wind with the next storm being 10 years ago having some wind. So those first couple of storms showed quite clearly the problem with FF infrastructure in bad weather. 
In the recent storm the majority of freezing was from FF infrastructure. It’s true in this last storm wind turbines froze because the state did not mandate weatherization on old or new turbines as they should have. Your root cause is evident, the state swamp. Legislation usually occurs after tragic loss in life and money. Maybe this time around they will mandate weatherization to  Texas energy infrastructure.

Boat a moment to reflect, provide this forum with a working model of say 5000 turbines that do have this fabled winterization process working, and it is a fable as of now. Or one can hire every copter in 10 states in order to winterize a grid the size of Texas...One cannot make these fairy tales up.

Qualifier would be a working model...not a few scattered here and there....grid scale not some farm operation or weather station.

Best Regards,

The Swamp.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,540]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Boat a moment to reflect, provide this forum with a working model of say 5000 turbines that do have this fabled winterization process working, and it is a fable as of now. Or one can hire every copter in 10 states in order to winterize a grid the size of Texas...One cannot make these fairy tales up.

Qualifier would be a working model...not a few scattered here and there....grid scale not some farm operation or weather station.

Best Regards,

The Swamp.

'Copters don't do well in icing conditions...

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

5 minutes ago, turbguy said:

'Copters don't do well in icing conditions...

Agreed have you yet seen what a cold weather pkg consists of yet....It is almost beyond comprehension....

When we order our wind turbines we add cold-weather packages to them,” spokesperson Geoff Greenwood said. “That includes heating elements, for example, inside the gearbox that is behind the turbines and that keeps certain components warm and enables the turbines to operate throughout the year, summer and winter alike.”

https://www.kcrg.com/2021/02/20/iowa-energy-company-explains-why-wind-turbines-dont-freeze-in-iowa-cold/

Edited March 9, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,540]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Agreed have you yet seen what a cold weather pkg consists of yet....It is almost beyond comprehension....

When we order our wind turbines we add cold-weather packages to them,” spokesperson Geoff Greenwood said. “That includes heating elements, for example, inside the gearbox that is behind the turbines and that keeps certain components warm and enables the turbines to operate throughout the year, summer and winter alike.”

https://www.kcrg.com/2021/02/20/iowa-energy-company-explains-why-wind-turbines-dont-freeze-in-iowa-cold/

I believe that's just to keep lubricant viscosity within range should operational (main bearing and gearing) losses not supply that at low speeds, plus some small heating for hydraulics for pitch control and step-down gearing in yaw motors.

A kilowatt or four per machine should do...

Now blade icing?  That's gonna take more, much more...

Edited March 9, 2021 by turbguy

[Symmetry + 109]

3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Boat a moment to reflect, provide this forum with a working model of say 5000 turbines that do have this fabled winterization process working, and it is a fable as of now.

There are plenty of turbines working in cold climates. 

Seek and you will find... your eyes are open yet you do not see.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

5 minutes ago, Symmetry said:

There are plenty of turbines working in cold climates. 

Seek and you will find... your eyes are open yet you do not see.

Post them if you can, wind farms not small tracts of 10/30. Frankly at this point it no longer matters, wind turbines can be paralyzed at any point in a ice storm.

[Symmetry + 109]

8 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Post them if you can, wind farms not small tracts of 10/30. Frankly at this point it no longer matters, wind turbines can be paralyzed at any point in a ice storm.

You seriously have not seen wind turbines?  Alberta, a plenty cold place, is loaded with them.https://earth.google.com/web/@49.62205466,-113.79708326,1108.27365078a,1939.77908936d,35y,160.40788351h,45.01433081t,0r

Everything is shut down by a bad enough ice storm...  Roads become slippery when covered with ice, people crash and die, should we not use roads or cars?  Logic, try it sometime.