ceo_energemsier + 1,818 cv March 18, 2021 Enbridge asks Canadian government to support oil pipeline in dispute with Michigan CALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - Enbridge Inc asked the Canadian government on Tuesday to champion its Line 5 oil pipeline in a legal battle with the state of Michigan, which is trying to shut down the pipeline over concerns it could leak into the Great Lakes. Calgary-based Enbridge is also asking Ottawa to provide support for its U.S. federal court filings on Line 5, Vern Yu, Enbridge executive vice president of liquids pipelines, told a federal parliamentary committee. The dispute between Enbridge and Michigan has escalated as a May deadline to shut down the 540,000-barrel-per-day pipeline looms closer. Line 5 is a key part of the Enbridge pipeline network supplying refineries in eastern Canada and the U.S. Midwest with western Canadian crude. Leaders in both countries are trying to reduce their economies’ dependence on fossil fuels, although Canada is supporting the ongoing operation of Line 5, especially after U.S. President Joe Biden canceled permits for the cross-border Keystone XL pipeline project. Late last year, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer ordered Line 5 to cease operating by May over concerns a 4-mile (6.4-km) section running along the lakebed of the Straits of Mackinac could leak. Enbridge is challenging that order in U.S. federal court, and the company has proposed building a $500 million underwater tunnel to protect the pipeline beneath the Straits. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberal government has already said it will look at all options to keep Line 5 operating, including invoking the 1977 Transit Pipelines Treaty. “We request the government of Canada use every pathway to assert that Line 5 is an important binational pipeline protected by the treaty, whose shutdown would have grave impacts for both the United States and Canada,” Enbridge’s Yu said. Enbridge does not expect the pipeline will be forced to shut down in May, Yu said, because Michigan needs a court injunction to enforce its order. He added, however, that court battles over the pipeline could go on for “many, many” years. “I think it’s essential that we try to come up with a mediated, negotiated diplomatic solution that takes us out of the hands of the court and provides a reasonable outcome for everyone involved,” Yu said. Enbridge and Michigan had their first meeting with a court-appointed joint mediator last weekend, Yu said, but he declined to comment on how that went. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ceo_energemsier + 1,818 cv March 18, 2021 States sue Biden in bid to revive Keystone XL pipeline BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Attorneys general from 21 states on Wednesday sued to to overturn President Joe Biden’s cancellation of the contentious Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada. Led by Ken Paxton of Texas and Austin Knudsen of Montana, the states said Biden had overstepped his authority when he revoked the permit for the Keystone pipeline on his first day in office. Because the line would run through multiple U.S. states, Congress should have the final say over whether it’s built, according to the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Texas. Construction on the 1,200-mile (1,930-kilometer) pipeline began last year when former President Donald Trump revived the long-delayed project after it had stalled under the Obama administration. It would move up to 830,000 barrels (35 million gallons) of crude daily from the oil sand fields of western Canada to Steele City, Nebraska, where it would connect to other pipelines that feed oil refineries on the U.S. Gulf Coast. Biden cancelled its permit over longstanding concerns that burning oil sands crude would make climate change worse. Some moderate Democratic lawmakers also have urged Biden to reverse his decision, including Sens. Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Jon Tester of Montana. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 609 st March 18, 2021 Many of the pipelines that run through or around the great lakes do not exactly have much Republican support from the folks who live around there, for example, in the upper peninsula in Michigan, not exactly a Republican places. It has nothing to do with partisan issues. Politics? Yes, everything is all about politics. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Symmetry + 109 KC March 19, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, ceo_energemsier said: Enbridge asks Canadian government to support oil pipeline in dispute with Michigan CALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - Enbridge Inc asked the Canadian government on Tuesday to champion its Line 5 oil pipeline in a legal battle with the state of Michigan, which is trying to shut down the pipeline over concerns it could leak into the Great Lakes. Calgary-based Enbridge is also asking Ottawa to provide support for its U.S. federal court filings on Line 5, Vern Yu, Enbridge executive vice president of liquids pipelines, told a federal parliamentary committee. The dispute between Enbridge and Michigan has escalated as a May deadline to shut down the 540,000-barrel-per-day pipeline looms closer. Line 5 is a key part of the Enbridge pipeline network supplying refineries in eastern Canada and the U.S. Midwest with western Canadian crude. Leaders in both countries are trying to reduce their economies’ dependence on fossil fuels, although Canada is supporting the ongoing operation of Line 5, especially after U.S. President Joe Biden canceled permits for the cross-border Keystone XL pipeline project. Late last year, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer ordered Line 5 to cease operating by May over concerns a 4-mile (6.4-km) section running along the lakebed of the Straits of Mackinac could leak. Enbridge is challenging that order in U.S. federal court, and the company has proposed building a $500 million underwater tunnel to protect the pipeline beneath the Straits. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberal government has already said it will look at all options to keep Line 5 operating, including invoking the 1977 Transit Pipelines Treaty. “We request the government of Canada use every pathway to assert that Line 5 is an important binational pipeline protected by the treaty, whose shutdown would have grave impacts for both the United States and Canada,” Enbridge’s Yu said. Enbridge does not expect the pipeline will be forced to shut down in May, Yu said, because Michigan needs a court injunction to enforce its order. He added, however, that court battles over the pipeline could go on for “many, many” years. “I think it’s essential that we try to come up with a mediated, negotiated diplomatic solution that takes us out of the hands of the court and provides a reasonable outcome for everyone involved,” Yu said. Enbridge and Michigan had their first meeting with a court-appointed joint mediator last weekend, Yu said, but he declined to comment on how that went. Enbridge shouldn't ask for handouts - they make plenty of money (market cap 90+ billion). Make a polite request on their behalf sure, pay their legal fees, no. Edited March 19, 2021 by Symmetry 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM March 19, 2021 Enbridges track record in the State of Michigan. Please note this is the 2nd largest land based pipeline spill in US history. The 70 year old pipeline has corrosion problems. Please note in 2005, Enbridge actually had learned that this section of pipe was cracked and corroding. ... That same 2005 internal report pointed to 15,000 defects in the 40-year-old pipeline. And Enbridge decided not to dig up this [Talmadge Creek] area to inspect it."[17] Kalamazoo River oil spill From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to navigation Jump to search Kalamazoo River oil spill Oil sheen near Ceresco Dam Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap Location Talmadge Creek andKalamazoo River,Calhoun County, near Marshall, Michigan Coordinates 42.25743°N 84.99307°WCoordinates: 42.25743°N 84.99307°W Date July 26, 2010 Cause Cause Ruptured pipeline Operator Enbridge Energy Spill characteristics Volume 877,000 to 1,000,000 US gal (3,320 to 3,790 m3) Shoreline impacted approx. 25 mi (40 km) The Kalamazoo River oil spill occurred in July 2010 when a pipeline operated by Enbridge (Line 6B) burst and flowed into Talmadge Creek, a tributary of the Kalamazoo River. A 6-foot (1.8 m) break in the pipeline resulted in one of the largest inland oil spills in U.S. history (the largest was the 1991 spill near Grand Rapids, Minnesota[1]). The pipeline carries diluted bitumen (dilbit), a heavy crude oil from Canada's Athabasca oil sands to the United States.[2] Cleanup took five years.[3] Following the spill, the volatile hydrocarbon diluents evaporated, leaving the heavier bitumen to sink in the water column. Thirty-five miles (56 km) of the Kalamazoo River were closed for clean-up until June 2012, when portions of the river were re-opened. On March 14, 2013, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ordered Enbridge to return to dredge portions of the river to remove submerged oil and oil-contaminated sediment. Contents 1 The spill 2 Aftermath 2.1 National Transportation Safety Board investigation 2.2 Additional dredging under 2013 order 3 Gallery 4 See also 5 References The spill Cleanup crews remove oil and contaminated materials from the Talmadge Creek stream bank near Marshall, Michigan On Sunday, July 25, 2010, at about 5:58 p.m. EDT, a 40-foot (12 m) pipe segment ruptured in the 30-in (760-mm) Enbridge Energy Line 6B, approximately 0.6 miles (1.0 km) downstream of the Marshall, Michigan pump station.[4] The rupture caused a spill of diluted bitumen originating from Canada (Alberta and Saskatchewan) into Talmadge Creek in Calhoun County, Michigan, which flows into the Kalamazoo River. The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) later estimated the spill to be in excess of 1 million US gallons (3,800 m3).[5] On 29 July 2010, the Calhoun County Health Department asked 30 to 50 households to evacuate, and twice as many were advised not to drink their water.[6] Alarms sounded in Enbridge's Edmonton headquarters at the time of the rupture, but control-room staff were unable to interpret them with certainty and remained unaware of the pipeline breach. It was eighteen hours before a Michigan utilities employee reported spilt oil and the company learned of the escape. For much of that time the operators had shut down the pipeline, so that the bitumen mixture escaped comparatively slowly. But they had thought the alarms were possibly caused by a bubble, in the pipeline, causing anomalous pressure readings, and had twice restarted the line. For a few hours, in total, the material was escaping much faster.[7] The oil was contained to a 25-mile (40 km) stretch of the Kalamazoo River as several hundred workers took part in the cleanup.[8] Regional EPA Director Susan Hedman estimated that it would take weeks to remove the bulk of the oil from the river, several months to clear oil from the flood plains, and several more months to clean the oil out of the marsh where the spill originated. However, a year later, a 35-mile stretch of the river remained closed.[9] Originally estimated at US$5 million,[10] by September 2011, cleanup costs passed $585 million and were expected to rise by 20 percent.[9] The cleanup expense by summer 2012 had totalled $765 million.[7] By November 2014, the total had risen to $1.21 billion, with an estimated $219 million in costs yet to be paid.[11] Aftermath In June, 2012, authorities reopened most of the 35 miles (56 km) of the river that had been closed to recreation after the spill. Part of the river at the Morrow Lake delta remained closed and other sections of the river remain restricted because of the ongoing cleanup of the oil sands product called diluted bitumen (dilbit) oil the pipeline had been transporting.[12] The United States Department of Transportation summer 2012 "fined Enbridge $3.7 million dollars and as part of that fine they listed 22 probable violations that happened relating to the spill. And several of those [violations] are about what happened in the [Edmonton] control room".[7] Response operations in residential area at confluence of Talmadge Creek and Kalamazoo River. One of the reasons for the vast escalation in time and expense of cleanup was that the EPA had never handled a dilbit spill. In addition, it is reported that Enbridge never informed the EPA of the product distinction. Dilbit, like all crude oil, floats in water but, over time, will sink, complicating cleanup efforts, particularly if dredging is considered too ecologically damaging.[7] Other environmental factors will affect the rate at which this process takes place. This disaster was the largest on-land spill in American history to date.[13] In July 2016, Enbridge agreed to pay $177 million in penalties and improved safety measures in a settlement with the U.S. Justice Department and the Environmental Protection Agency.[14] National Transportation Safety Board investigation In July 2012, the National Transportation Safety Board, the U.S. federal agency with regulatory authority over the failed pipeline, issued a report representing the official conclusion of the investigation into the incident. The investigators found that the operating firm, which had received an automated signal from the pipeline that a breach had occurred, misunderstood or did not believe the signal and attempted to continue to pump dilbit oil through the pipeline for 17 hours after the breach. Local firefighters were notified, and tried to locate the southern Michigan wetland site of the breach, but were initially unable to do so, further delaying the shutdown of the line.[15] Technicians begin removal of a section of pipe from the Enbridge pipeline oil spill site near Marshall, Michigan The NTSB investigation synopsis pointed to corrosion fatigue as the underlying cause of the catastrophic breach. The incident was exacerbated by the pipeline's disbonded polyethylene tape coating. In July 2012, the cost of the cleanup operations was estimated at $767 million.[15] The NTSB stated the Enbridge dilbit oil spill is, as of 2012, the costliest onshore cleanup in U.S. history.[16] NTSB Chair Deborah Hersman likened "Enbridge's poor handling" of the spill to the Keystone Kops, asking: "Why didn't they recognize what was happening, and what took so long?" NPR reported that "NTSB investigators determined that the six-foot [1.8 m] gash in the pipe was caused by a flaw in the outside lining which allowed the pipe to crack and corrode. Now, in 2005, Enbridge actually had learned that this section of pipe was cracked and corroding. ... That same 2005 internal report pointed to 15,000 defects in the 40-year-old pipeline. And Enbridge decided not to dig up this [Talmadge Creek] area to inspect it."[17] In 2013, in opining on the Keystone XL pipeline proposal, the EPA recommended to the State Department that pipelines that carry bitumen should no longer be treated just like pipelines that carry any other oil. Stephen Hamilton, an ecology professor at Michigan State University and the independent science adviser at Talmadge Creek, detailed the challenges and expense of the still-ongoing Michigan cleanup.[18][19] Additional dredging under 2013 order The EPA issued an Order for Removal in 2013 which required Enbridge to remove oil-contaminated sediment from specific locations along the Kalamazoo River, including the three areas where submerged oil was most pronounced: Upstream of the Ceresco Dam Mill Ponds area Morrow Lake, Morrow Lake Delta and adjacent areas Sediment traps at two designated locations[20] By the fall of 2014, Enbridge had completed the remaining obligations under the 2013 Order for Removal, including the dredging of oil-contaminated sediment. Based on the successful completion of the work by Enbridge, the EPA transitioned the oversight of the remaining obligations to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality in 2014.[21] 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG March 19, 2021 17 hours ago, ceo_energemsier said: Enbridge asks Canadian government to support oil pipeline in dispute with Michigan CALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - Enbridge Inc asked the Canadian government on Tuesday to champion its Line 5 oil pipeline in a legal battle with the state of Michigan, which is trying to shut down the pipeline over concerns it could leak into the Great Lakes. Calgary-based Enbridge is also asking Ottawa to provide support for its U.S. federal court filings on Line 5, Vern Yu, Enbridge executive vice president of liquids pipelines, told a federal parliamentary committee. The dispute between Enbridge and Michigan has escalated as a May deadline to shut down the 540,000-barrel-per-day pipeline looms closer. Line 5 is a key part of the Enbridge pipeline network supplying refineries in eastern Canada and the U.S. Midwest with western Canadian crude. Leaders in both countries are trying to reduce their economies’ dependence on fossil fuels, although Canada is supporting the ongoing operation of Line 5, especially after U.S. President Joe Biden canceled permits for the cross-border Keystone XL pipeline project. Late last year, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer ordered Line 5 to cease operating by May over concerns a 4-mile (6.4-km) section running along the lakebed of the Straits of Mackinac could leak. Enbridge is challenging that order in U.S. federal court, and the company has proposed building a $500 million underwater tunnel to protect the pipeline beneath the Straits. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberal government has already said it will look at all options to keep Line 5 operating, including invoking the 1977 Transit Pipelines Treaty. “We request the government of Canada use every pathway to assert that Line 5 is an important binational pipeline protected by the treaty, whose shutdown would have grave impacts for both the United States and Canada,” Enbridge’s Yu said. Enbridge does not expect the pipeline will be forced to shut down in May, Yu said, because Michigan needs a court injunction to enforce its order. He added, however, that court battles over the pipeline could go on for “many, many” years. “I think it’s essential that we try to come up with a mediated, negotiated diplomatic solution that takes us out of the hands of the court and provides a reasonable outcome for everyone involved,” Yu said. Enbridge and Michigan had their first meeting with a court-appointed joint mediator last weekend, Yu said, but he declined to comment on how that went. This is like investing in phone booths when the smart phone is clearly the market winner. Canada can run pipelines over their own lands. Once upon a time the US was dependent on foreign oil/Canadian to the tune of 12 mbpd. Today that demand is basically dead. The US is FF independent thanks to fracking. It’s not just oil, the US is also net nat gas independent. Canada needs to look internally to get Albertas oil to the world market. There is no longer a need for the US to run Canadian oil across the US bread basket to access the Gulf Coast. In today’s world there is a good chance new pipelines will become stranded assets. Today’s big news has more to do with competing batteries for the electric revolution. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 March 20, 2021 On 3/18/2021 at 5:22 PM, surrept33 said: Many of the pipelines that run through or around the great lakes do not exactly have much Republican support from the folks who live around there, for example, in the upper peninsula in Michigan, not exactly a Republican places. It has nothing to do with partisan issues. Politics? Yes, everything is all about politics. Important and vital interstate commerce should be approved as one entity with FINALITY. No more lawsuits that continue after the work is begun unless actual damage is proven. All of New England is suffering from lack of natural gas or high prices due to New York State denying access from Pennsylvania. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 March 20, 2021 (edited) On 3/19/2021 at 5:06 AM, notsonice said: Enbridges track record in the State of Michigan. Please note this is the 2nd largest land based pipeline spill in US history. The 70 year old pipeline has corrosion problems. Please note in 2005, Enbridge actually had learned that this section of pipe was cracked and corroding. ... That same 2005 internal report pointed to 15,000 defects in the 40-year-old pipeline. And Enbridge decided not to dig up this [Talmadge Creek] area to inspect it."[17] Kalamazoo River oil spill From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to navigation Jump to search Kalamazoo River oil spill Oil sheen near Ceresco Dam Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap Location Talmadge Creek andKalamazoo River,Calhoun County, near Marshall, Michigan Coordinates 42.25743°N 84.99307°WCoordinates: 42.25743°N 84.99307°W Date July 26, 2010 Cause Cause Ruptured pipeline Operator Enbridge Energy Spill characteristics Volume 877,000 to 1,000,000 US gal (3,320 to 3,790 m3) Shoreline impacted approx. 25 mi (40 km) The Kalamazoo River oil spill occurred in July 2010 when a pipeline operated by Enbridge (Line 6B) burst and flowed into Talmadge Creek, a tributary of the Kalamazoo River. A 6-foot (1.8 m) break in the pipeline resulted in one of the largest inland oil spills in U.S. history (the largest was the 1991 spill near Grand Rapids, Minnesota[1]). The pipeline carries diluted bitumen (dilbit), a heavy crude oil from Canada's Athabasca oil sands to the United States.[2] Cleanup took five years.[3] Following the spill, the volatile hydrocarbon diluents evaporated, leaving the heavier bitumen to sink in the water column. Thirty-five miles (56 km) of the Kalamazoo River were closed for clean-up until June 2012, when portions of the river were re-opened. On March 14, 2013, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ordered Enbridge to return to dredge portions of the river to remove submerged oil and oil-contaminated sediment. Contents 1 The spill 2 Aftermath 2.1 National Transportation Safety Board investigation 2.2 Additional dredging under 2013 order 3 Gallery 4 See also 5 References The spill Cleanup crews remove oil and contaminated materials from the Talmadge Creek stream bank near Marshall, Michigan On Sunday, July 25, 2010, at about 5:58 p.m. EDT, a 40-foot (12 m) pipe segment ruptured in the 30-in (760-mm) Enbridge Energy Line 6B, approximately 0.6 miles (1.0 km) downstream of the Marshall, Michigan pump station.[4] The rupture caused a spill of diluted bitumen originating from Canada (Alberta and Saskatchewan) into Talmadge Creek in Calhoun County, Michigan, which flows into the Kalamazoo River. The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) later estimated the spill to be in excess of 1 million US gallons (3,800 m3).[5] On 29 July 2010, the Calhoun County Health Department asked 30 to 50 households to evacuate, and twice as many were advised not to drink their water.[6] Alarms sounded in Enbridge's Edmonton headquarters at the time of the rupture, but control-room staff were unable to interpret them with certainty and remained unaware of the pipeline breach. It was eighteen hours before a Michigan utilities employee reported spilt oil and the company learned of the escape. For much of that time the operators had shut down the pipeline, so that the bitumen mixture escaped comparatively slowly. But they had thought the alarms were possibly caused by a bubble, in the pipeline, causing anomalous pressure readings, and had twice restarted the line. For a few hours, in total, the material was escaping much faster.[7] The oil was contained to a 25-mile (40 km) stretch of the Kalamazoo River as several hundred workers took part in the cleanup.[8] Regional EPA Director Susan Hedman estimated that it would take weeks to remove the bulk of the oil from the river, several months to clear oil from the flood plains, and several more months to clean the oil out of the marsh where the spill originated. However, a year later, a 35-mile stretch of the river remained closed.[9] Originally estimated at US$5 million,[10] by September 2011, cleanup costs passed $585 million and were expected to rise by 20 percent.[9] The cleanup expense by summer 2012 had totalled $765 million.[7] By November 2014, the total had risen to $1.21 billion, with an estimated $219 million in costs yet to be paid.[11] Aftermath In June, 2012, authorities reopened most of the 35 miles (56 km) of the river that had been closed to recreation after the spill. Part of the river at the Morrow Lake delta remained closed and other sections of the river remain restricted because of the ongoing cleanup of the oil sands product called diluted bitumen (dilbit) oil the pipeline had been transporting.[12] The United States Department of Transportation summer 2012 "fined Enbridge $3.7 million dollars and as part of that fine they listed 22 probable violations that happened relating to the spill. And several of those [violations] are about what happened in the [Edmonton] control room".[7] Response operations in residential area at confluence of Talmadge Creek and Kalamazoo River. One of the reasons for the vast escalation in time and expense of cleanup was that the EPA had never handled a dilbit spill. In addition, it is reported that Enbridge never informed the EPA of the product distinction. Dilbit, like all crude oil, floats in water but, over time, will sink, complicating cleanup efforts, particularly if dredging is considered too ecologically damaging.[7] Other environmental factors will affect the rate at which this process takes place. This disaster was the largest on-land spill in American history to date.[13] In July 2016, Enbridge agreed to pay $177 million in penalties and improved safety measures in a settlement with the U.S. Justice Department and the Environmental Protection Agency.[14] National Transportation Safety Board investigation In July 2012, the National Transportation Safety Board, the U.S. federal agency with regulatory authority over the failed pipeline, issued a report representing the official conclusion of the investigation into the incident. The investigators found that the operating firm, which had received an automated signal from the pipeline that a breach had occurred, misunderstood or did not believe the signal and attempted to continue to pump dilbit oil through the pipeline for 17 hours after the breach. Local firefighters were notified, and tried to locate the southern Michigan wetland site of the breach, but were initially unable to do so, further delaying the shutdown of the line.[15] Technicians begin removal of a section of pipe from the Enbridge pipeline oil spill site near Marshall, Michigan The NTSB investigation synopsis pointed to corrosion fatigue as the underlying cause of the catastrophic breach. The incident was exacerbated by the pipeline's disbonded polyethylene tape coating. In July 2012, the cost of the cleanup operations was estimated at $767 million.[15] The NTSB stated the Enbridge dilbit oil spill is, as of 2012, the costliest onshore cleanup in U.S. history.[16] NTSB Chair Deborah Hersman likened "Enbridge's poor handling" of the spill to the Keystone Kops, asking: "Why didn't they recognize what was happening, and what took so long?" NPR reported that "NTSB investigators determined that the six-foot [1.8 m] gash in the pipe was caused by a flaw in the outside lining which allowed the pipe to crack and corrode. Now, in 2005, Enbridge actually had learned that this section of pipe was cracked and corroding. ... That same 2005 internal report pointed to 15,000 defects in the 40-year-old pipeline. And Enbridge decided not to dig up this [Talmadge Creek] area to inspect it."[17] In 2013, in opining on the Keystone XL pipeline proposal, the EPA recommended to the State Department that pipelines that carry bitumen should no longer be treated just like pipelines that carry any other oil. Stephen Hamilton, an ecology professor at Michigan State University and the independent science adviser at Talmadge Creek, detailed the challenges and expense of the still-ongoing Michigan cleanup.[18][19] Additional dredging under 2013 order The EPA issued an Order for Removal in 2013 which required Enbridge to remove oil-contaminated sediment from specific locations along the Kalamazoo River, including the three areas where submerged oil was most pronounced: Upstream of the Ceresco Dam Mill Ponds area Morrow Lake, Morrow Lake Delta and adjacent areas Sediment traps at two designated locations[20] By the fall of 2014, Enbridge had completed the remaining obligations under the 2013 Order for Removal, including the dredging of oil-contaminated sediment. Based on the successful completion of the work by Enbridge, the TEPA transitioned the oversight of the remaining obligations to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality in 2014.[21] There was a similar, but smaller, incident with a corroded pipeline in northern California a few years ago. It impacted the coast: Plains apologized for the oil spill and had paid $335 million in cleanup and other associated costs, along with narrowly avoided felony charges for their role in the spill. However the damage to other oil companies who used the pipeline because of he pipeline break and the outstanding safety law violations has hung over the heads of Plains for years, despite the company complying with heightened safety regulations. Edited March 20, 2021 by ronwagn reference 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Symmetry + 109 KC March 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, ronwagn said: Important and vital interstate commerce should be approved as one entity with FINALITY. No more lawsuits that continue after the work is begun unless actual damage is proven. All of New England is suffering from lack of natural gas or high prices due to New York State denying access from Pennsylvania. Individual states have a lot of power. You may like national policy forcing of stuff in this case but probably not in other situations. Give up your state rights at your own risk. Certainly don't complain when the federal dems and rich states like California bully your state around. High tension power line right over your place because some other state considers it essential interstate commerce. Cool right? As for the "actual damage is proven" how many disasters do they need to suffer for you? A friend was a biologist for Enbrige during the big spill. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalamazoo_River_oil_spill He said the local hate for them was crazy. People were writing "F**k Enbridge" using human shit on the walls of the hotel rooms they were provided during the evacuation. Of course, Enbridge just paid all the repair bills and silenced as much of that from the media as they could. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL March 20, 2021 45 minutes ago, Symmetry said: Individual states have a lot of power. You may like national policy forcing of stuff in this case but probably not in other situations. Give up your state rights at your own risk. Certainly don't complain when the federal dems and rich states like California bully your state around. High tension power line right over your place because some other state considers it essential interstate commerce. Cool right? As for the "actual damage is proven" how many disasters do they need to suffer for you? A friend was a biologist for Enbrige during the big spill. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalamazoo_River_oil_spill He said the local hate for them was crazy. People were writing "F**k Enbridge" using human shit on the walls of the hotel rooms they were provided during the evacuation. Of course, Enbridge just paid all the repair bills and silenced as much of that from the media as they could. I take it that you are not a fan of oil? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Symmetry + 109 KC March 20, 2021 Just now, Ecocharger said: I take it that you are not a fan of oil? I like oil fine just, I don't like giant oil spills and understand why they are trying to prevent another. It's possible to like something while understanding it has downsides, like a meat lovers pizza. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichieRich216 + 454 RK March 20, 2021 These stupid Assclown Democrats all should be removed! They don’t serve the people in their states but only their extreme views! Take them all to court and overturn these assholes! You want progress kick the living shit out of the Democrats, COMING 2022 if not sooner with what they are doing! They have the mental retarted Biden who falls 3 times going on Air Force One, Calls Harris the President and she is at his side more then the fake doctor jill! They are going to 25th his ass as soon as they are done having him sign EO’s which he has no idea what he’s signing. Then we’re going to stuck with the nappie hairy Jamaican! Which based on her big mouth in the past we can impeach the bitch.... 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Symmetry + 109 KC March 20, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RichieRich216 said: These stupid Assclown Democrats all should be removed! They don’t serve the people in their states but only their extreme views! Take them all to court and overturn these assholes! You want progress kick the living shit out of the Democrats, COMING 2022 if not sooner with what they are doing! They have the mental retarted Biden who falls 3 times going on Air Force One, Calls Harris the President and she is at his side more then the fake doctor jill! They are going to 25th his ass as soon as they are done having him sign EO’s which he has no idea what he’s signing. Then we’re going to stuck with the nappie hairy Jamaican! Which based on her big mouth in the past we can impeach the bitch.... More delusional criminals. You tried court and lost. Losers. Edited March 20, 2021 by Symmetry 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 609 st March 20, 2021 54 minutes ago, ronwagn said: Important and vital interstate commerce should be approved as one entity with FINALITY. No more lawsuits that continue after the work is begun unless actual damage is proven. All of New England is suffering from lack of natural gas or high prices due to New York State denying access from Pennsylvania. I agree and disagree. As is usual, when there are competing tradeoffs (for example, the certainty of the need for supply of a good/service as well the cumulative risk of providing said service), I think the question to be asked is, what is the fungibility of the good, and how has the perceived fungibility of the good changed over time? Like it or not, in the United States, much of our tort system (and associated cost/insurance "diseases") are based on Oliver Wendell Holmes's thought (which really was derived from 1000 years of English Common Law). I think this is interesting to revisit since his legal opinions were scribed during an era of mass infrastructure building, for example transcontinental railroads and canals, which sometimes had unexpected side effects. Luckily, we have the benefits of more data points now? https://h2o.law.harvard.edu/text_blocks/951 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 609 st March 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, RichieRich216 said: Then we’re going to stuck with the nappie hairy Jamaican! Which based on her big mouth in the past we can impeach the bitch.... That sounds like KDS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Gato + 254 Bs March 20, 2021 (edited) On 3/19/2021 at 7:21 AM, Boat said: This is like investing in phone booths when the smart phone is clearly the market winner. Canada can run pipelines over their own lands. Once upon a time the US was dependent on foreign oil/Canadian to the tune of 12 mbpd. Today that demand is basically dead. The US is FF independent thanks to fracking. It’s not just oil, the US is also net nat gas independent. Canada needs to look internally to get Albertas oil to the world market. There is no longer a need for the US to run Canadian oil across the US bread basket to access the Gulf Coast. In today’s world there is a good chance new pipelines will become stranded assets. Today’s big news has more to do with competing batteries for the electric revolution. You forget, especially this being an OIL forum as I pointed out a few weeks ago, Canada is the US primary source of HEAVY crude for its refineries, and it is COST PROHIBITIVE to convert the refineries to lite sweet from Texas or the other fields in the US. Venezuela and Iran WERE the primary sources, but under current conditions, aint' gonna happen. Heavy crude is also a sole source for certain petroleum byproducts. So, in the end, the US needs Canadian heavy Crude.(Unless Gavin Newsome and California have a "I See the light" moment and expand California's petroleum footprint to their glory days.) Edited March 20, 2021 by El Gato 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL March 21, 2021 5 hours ago, El Gato said: You forget, especially this being an OIL forum as I pointed out a few weeks ago, Canada is the US primary source of HEAVY crude for its refineries, and it is COST PROHIBITIVE to convert the refineries to lite sweet from Texas or the other fields in the US. Venezuela and Iran WERE the primary sources, but under current conditions, aint' gonna happen. Heavy crude is also a sole source for certain petroleum byproducts. So, in the end, the US needs Canadian heavy Crude.(Unless Gavin Newsome and California have a "I See the light" moment and expand California's petroleum footprint to their glory days.) Canadian heavy crude will continue to move to its destination at American heavy crude refineries....but it will be by trains. Maybe also the safer and better pipeline route down the road when the politics allows it. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Symmetry + 109 KC March 21, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, El Gato said: You forget, especially this being an OIL forum as I pointed out a few weeks ago Oil forums do not have to be all pro-oil; it is a discussion board not a propaganda board. For those who want all rainbows and sunshine forecasts for the oil industry perhaps look to fiction. Edited March 21, 2021 by Symmetry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 609 st March 21, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, El Gato said: You forget, especially this being an OIL forum as I pointed out a few weeks ago, Canada is the US primary source of HEAVY crude for its refineries, and it is COST PROHIBITIVE to convert the refineries to lite sweet from Texas or the other fields in the US. Venezuela and Iran WERE the primary sources, but under current conditions, aint' gonna happen. Heavy crude is also a sole source for certain petroleum byproducts. So, in the end, the US needs Canadian heavy Crude.(Unless Gavin Newsome and California have a "I See the light" moment and expand California's petroleum footprint to their glory days.) Yeah, but you can be pro-oil (or for example, pro-byproducts), pro (fresh)-water, and pro-money. That being said, how much money (or loss of fresh water) does it cost society to reverse a oil spill or other pollution? Ultimately society (or what we pass down to future society) has to make tradeoffs with context in mind. What are the other options to send the oil that minimizes risk but still delivers the goods, for example through Wisconsin and Chicago? The "costs" ultimately hit either consumers (we haven't seen a commodity supercycle in a while, but keep in mind that on average, logistical networks are much more efficient in 2021 than in 2007, people who have become better at logistics are simply pocketing the $) or shareholders (margin). Keep in mind that due to the growth of passive investing, the average composition of who actually owns Enbridge may have changed over the years, and the shareholders may demand better accounting of environmental governance given more clear information about the historical track record of companies, perhaps with very different executives in charge. What are other unintended consequences? Lake Erie (and many rivers that flow into it) for example, had a century of hardly regulated industrial waste. Worked great for increasing the standard of living for our ancestors, but perhaps society has access to technologies that do not have a infinite "risk stream" for a century. It feels prudent to control the blast radius given opportunities to do so. Edited March 21, 2021 by surrept33 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG March 21, 2021 17 hours ago, El Gato said: You forget, especially this being an OIL forum as I pointed out a few weeks ago, Canada is the US primary source of HEAVY crude for its refineries, and it is COST PROHIBITIVE to convert the refineries to lite sweet from Texas or the other fields in the US. Venezuela and Iran WERE the primary sources, but under current conditions, aint' gonna happen. Heavy crude is also a sole source for certain petroleum byproducts. So, in the end, the US needs Canadian heavy Crude.(Unless Gavin Newsome and California have a "I See the light" moment and expand California's petroleum footprint to their glory days.) The US doesn’t need exports. The US needs energy independence as a fiscal policy and as a national security issue. Well guess what, the US has achieved net FF energy independence. All these Canadian imports along with Russian and Saudi mixed and refined on American soil may produce some tax revenue but at the cost of pollution and US lungs. Millions of barrels per day imported in to supply foreign countries in Brazil, Columbia etc with petroleum products is not needed. Those Venezuela and Saudi refineries are not needed. Like Canada let them make their messes on their own lands. Let them pipe and refine without affecting US citizens health. Yea, we’re woke, deal with it. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG March 21, 2021 Let me add US energy and as far as that goes, North American energy independence is important. That’s a huge market. And yes we should eat the pollution we consume from home grown produced energy. But FF exports outside N America is not worth the pollution risks, deaths, quality of life issues and increasing health care costs. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ceo_energemsier + 1,818 cv March 21, 2021 18 hours ago, El Gato said: You forget, especially this being an OIL forum as I pointed out a few weeks ago, Canada is the US primary source of HEAVY crude for its refineries, and it is COST PROHIBITIVE to convert the refineries to lite sweet from Texas or the other fields in the US. Venezuela and Iran WERE the primary sources, but under current conditions, aint' gonna happen. Heavy crude is also a sole source for certain petroleum byproducts. So, in the end, the US needs Canadian heavy Crude.(Unless Gavin Newsome and California have a "I See the light" moment and expand California's petroleum footprint to their glory days.) Iran has not been a primary source of sour/heavy crude for the US in a long long long time, Venezuela yes. Canada is our important source, the GoM could become our primary source if allowed to do so. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 March 22, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 3:49 PM, ronwagn said: There was a similar, but smaller, incident with a corroded pipeline in northern California a few years ago. It impacted the coast: Plains apologized for the oil spill and had paid $335 million in cleanup and other associated costs, along with narrowly avoided felony charges for their role in the spill. However the damage to other oil companies who used the pipeline because of he pipeline break and the outstanding safety law violations has hung over the heads of Plains for years, despite the company complying with heightened safety regulations. How do pipeline companies make terrible decisions to not keep up maintenance of pipelines and critical equipment to prevent them from freezing, from checking them frequently, for corrosion, pressure checks etc? I have never been for government agencies doing primary checks over the life of pipelines but somebody has to maintain and check them to protect the company, the environment, and the reputation of the industry. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Symmetry + 109 KC March 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ronwagn said: How do pipeline companies make terrible decisions to not keep up maintenance of pipelines and critical equipment to prevent them from freezing, from checking them frequently, for corrosion, pressure checks etc? I have never been for government agencies doing primary checks over the life of pipelines but somebody has to maintain and check them to protect the company, the environment, and the reputation of the industry. I asked this very question to a pipeline engineer (not always oil) As always the answer is money. Inspections that find no problems are a waste of money, in a way. Operators cost money, hire too few they get overworked and/or lazy. Out-of-control process measurements are ignored. Shutting down a process to do an inspection / repair also costs money - sometimes a lot. Often there is internal organizational pressure to not hit the stop button. Also when lines are near end-of-life or needing major repair they start becoming a liability. What sometimes happens is the old, damage "asset" is sold off to a less ethical, smaller company willing to accept the risk. If disaster strikes they just go bankrupt; cleanup costs are dumped on the taxpayer or a producer associations' fund. Government agencies to not run the lines, the companies do. Edited March 22, 2021 by Symmetry 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Gato + 254 Bs March 22, 2021 On 3/21/2021 at 1:07 AM, Symmetry said: Oil forums do not have to be all pro-oil; it is a discussion board not a propaganda board. For those who want all rainbows and sunshine forecasts for the oil industry perhaps look to fiction. Nothing was said about it being pro-oil. You just made that up. I;m just pointing out if you are going to post on an OIL industry message board, have some knowledge of it. Especially when it was already pointed out recently. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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