America's pandemic dead deserve accountability after Birx disclosure

[turbguy + 1,540]

8 hours ago, -trance said:

Silly man; people would have had to have treatments to obtain data on the effectiveness thereof.

You mean stuff like this?

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/table-2b/

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

9 hours ago, turbguy said:

I guess it just boils down to who you put your faith in,  The New American, or the NIH...

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/chloroquine-or-hydroxychloroquine-with-or-without-azithromycin/

You gotta admit, there's a little more "meat" provided by the NIH.

I don't think The New American is "peer reviewed", but I could be wrong.

 

No. There. Isn't.

The TL; DR

NIH didn't like the results and nit picked the parameters. One thing NIH did not address it's why the continent of Africa has less Covid deaths than the country of Great Britain. Add in that in this country blacks are 3 times more likely to die of it than whites. Does the disease know the difference between African Americans and Africans? Or is there something else going on, like an entire population that routinely takes cheap, available HCQ? In the heat of the Covid battle doctors were rushing thru tests, which didn't meet the NIH gold standard so they were all rejected out of hand, without looking at the results. Let's compare and contrast with the vaccine trials shall we? Oh, better not look too close, they are much worse. Winners and losers are being picked before the starting gun is even fired. Three horses finished ahead of yours? Disqualified! 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

But if we want to play the appeal to authority game with NIH, do I get to bring up The face masks are worthless against Covid study published there?

[Bob D + 562]

 

On 4/16/2021 at 5:26 AM, Hotone said:

The article is behind a paywall, so can't access it and not going to pay.  Besides, articles coming from China's enemies such as Australia can't be believed.  However, I am inclined to believe that there had been secrecy on the part of local Chinese officials because of corruption.

On 4/16/2021 at 8:14 AM, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Maybe its behind a paywall for you, because you're in the chinese web. It would make sense because the article shows that the genome sequence was released 1 day before the official CCP release, by an Australian. 

 Hotone has been a Chinese sympathizing American hater from day one.  It's hilarious to see Australia referenced as China's enemy.  Australia??  So Australia can't be believed but China can??  Oh wait ... local officials corruption in China.  Not China right.  Local officials?  What a joke!

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

10 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

No. There. Isn't.

The TL; DR

NIH didn't like the results and nit picked the parameters. One thing NIH did not address it's why the continent of Africa has less Covid deaths than the country of Great Britain. Add in that in this country blacks are 3 times more likely to die of it than whites. Does the disease know the difference between African Americans and Africans? Or is there something else going on, like an entire population that routinely takes cheap, available HCQ? In the heat of the Covid battle doctors were rushing thru tests, which didn't meet the NIH gold standard so they were all rejected out of hand, without looking at the results. Let's compare and contrast with the vaccine trials shall we? Oh, better not look too close, they are much worse. Winners and losers are being picked before the starting gun is even fired. Three horses finished ahead of yours? Disqualified! 

 It is interesting black Americans suffer so badly from covid. That is until you look at obesity rates, ive seen numbers as high as 40% of the population. While ive not seen diabetic numbers often they run hand in hand in regard to obesity.

It is truly sad one cannot get past this race issue and get to the true causes of higher death rates..very sad will we ever learn.

And to your point of HCQ, I do agree HCQ helped the body overcome all the ramifications of covid. Once there was a major study done stating HCQ was ineffective only to find out the study had been manipulated by some obscure person. Was it not the Lancet study?..From that moment forward the entire conversation was muted.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

29 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

And to your point of HCQ, I do agree HCQ helped the body overcome all the ramifications of covid. Once there was a major study done stating HCQ was ineffective only to find out the study had been manipulated by some obscure person. Was it not the Lancet study?..From that moment forward the entire conversation was muted

The "study" was eventually retracted, but not before its damage was done. The NIH review above nitpicks about whether every t was crossed and every i was dotted, but had no problem with the horribly flawed Brazil "study" where they gave 6 times the recommended doses to patients already on ventilators. Anything to generate a Negative outcome. 

[Boat + 1,323]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

But if we want to play the appeal to authority game with NIH, do I get to bring up The face masks are worthless against Covid study published there?

You can’t read and comprehend, or just like to lie like the o’l Donald does. The idea of masks never claimed to stop COVID. They help limit the force of expulsion from coughs, sneezes and promote droplets falling to the ground quicker, along with social distancing and keeping groups small so there is less droplet concentration. That with filtering and an infusion of fresh air. Using UV lights are also effective. This is just plain common sense with no need of a peer reviewed study. In 15 states COVID is on the rise. My bet says another round for all the states. 

[surrept33 + 609]

5 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

No. There. Isn't.

The TL; DR

NIH didn't like the results and nit picked the parameters. One thing NIH did not address it's why the continent of Africa has less Covid deaths than the country of Great Britain. Add in that in this country blacks are 3 times more likely to die of it than whites. Does the disease know the difference between African Americans and Africans? Or is there something else going on, like an entire population that routinely takes cheap, available HCQ? In the heat of the Covid battle doctors were rushing thru tests, which didn't meet the NIH gold standard so they were all rejected out of hand, without looking at the results. Let's compare and contrast with the vaccine trials shall we? Oh, better not look too close, they are much worse. Winners and losers are being picked before the starting gun is even fired. Three horses finished ahead of yours? Disqualified! 

If HCQ works great, why is India going through a tsunami? I thought it was a cureall.

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-india-deaths-hospitals-second-wave/

Edited April 20, 2021 by surrept33

[Bob D + 562]

42 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

If HCQ works great, why is India going through a tsunami? I thought it was a cureall.

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-india-deaths-hospitals-second-wave/

Come on man.  No one said it was the cure all.  It is an effective, cheap and plentiful drug to combat Corona Viruses. That's all.  Except it was and still is banned for use (NIH, CDC), banned for dissemination (Pharmacists, Doctors Rx) and banned in the media (MSM, Social Media).  That's just wrong and stupid. 

[turbguy + 1,540]

8 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

No. There. Isn't.

The TL; DR

NIH didn't like the results and nit picked the parameters. One thing NIH did not address it's why the continent of Africa has less Covid deaths than the country of Great Britain. Add in that in this country blacks are 3 times more likely to die of it than whites. Does the disease know the difference between African Americans and Africans? Or is there something else going on, like an entire population that routinely takes cheap, available HCQ? In the heat of the Covid battle doctors were rushing thru tests, which didn't meet the NIH gold standard so they were all rejected out of hand, without looking at the results. Let's compare and contrast with the vaccine trials shall we? Oh, better not look too close, they are much worse. Winners and losers are being picked before the starting gun is even fired. Three horses finished ahead of yours? Disqualified! 

I must admit, you are persistent in arguments. It is good to "look through the eye's of others".  Hydroxychloroquine is an available and cheap medication. So is aspirin.  And LOTS of other stuff.

I am not familiar with all the acronyms you use, particular 2-letter acronyms.

While the argument you make has power to some, I would rather stay with peer-reviewed material, rather that something like Newsmax or equivalent.  If trials were not done in a controlled clinical trial, you really can't make any definitive statement about it. You can make an argument, but not a definitive statement.  

So, it there a controlled clinical study you can point to that has more "meat" than being anecdotal?  Perhaps there is one that I have overlooked.

BTW, how'd  Hydroxychloroquine work for the ex-president?

BTW, how's Hydroxychloroquine working for Brazil?

  https://abcnews.go.com/International/hydroxychloroquine-miracle-cures-continue-fuel-brazils-outbreak/story?id=76682504

BTW, how'd it work for Africa?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/first-its-kind-african-trial-tests-common-drugs-prevent-severe-covid-19

Africa's apparent avoidance of a predicted health catastrophe really is a head-scratcher.  If its due to use of the Hydroxychloroquine, I don't see any evidence.

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

35 minutes ago, turbguy said:

I must admit, you are persistent in arguments. It is good to "look through the eye's of others".  Hydroxychloroquine is an available and cheap medication. So is aspirin.  And LOTS of other stuff.

I am not familiar with all the acronyms you use, particular 2-letter acronyms.

While the argument you make has power to some, I would rather stay with peer-reviewed material, rather that something like Newsmax or equivalent.  If trials were not done in a controlled clinical trial, you really can't make any definitive statement about it. You can make an argument, but not a definitive statement.  

So, it there a controlled clinical study you can point to that has more "meat" than being anecdotal?  Perhaps there is one that I have overlooked.

BTW, how'd  Hydroxychloroquine work for the ex-president?

BTW, how's Hydroxychloroquine working for Brazil?

  https://abcnews.go.com/International/hydroxychloroquine-miracle-cures-continue-fuel-brazils-outbreak/story?id=76682504

BTW, how'd it work for Africa?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/first-its-kind-african-trial-tests-common-drugs-prevent-severe-covid-19

Africa's apparent avoidance of a predicted health catastrophe really is a head-scratcher.  If its due to use of the Hydroxychloroquine, I don't see any evidence.

 

 

 

Hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin and early hospital admission are beneficial in COVID-19 patients: Turkish experience with real-life data

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32682360/

MN Governor Quietly Reverses Course on Hydroxychloroquine

The decision, which comes two weeks after the Ohio Board of Pharmacy reversed an effective ban of its own, was rightfully praised by local health care advocates.  “We are pleased that Governor [Tim] Walz lifted his March 27 Executive Order 20-23 restrictions on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine,” said Twila Brase, president of Citizens’ Council for Health Freedom.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/17/mn_governor_quietly_reverses_course_on_hydroxychloroquine__143978.html

Covid-19 treatment: Algeria to continue using Hydroxychloroquine

Why Africa leads the world in COVID-19 performance

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/520901-why-africa-leads-the-world-in-covid-19-performance

Asian countries overall have fared better in managing the Covid-19 pandemic, with lower mortality rate which are attributed to Asian culture, climate, demographics ...

https://www.ispsw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/711_Lin.pdf

Many countries either adopted or declined early treatment with HCQ, effectively forming a large trial with 1.8 billion people in the treatment group and 663 million in the control group. As of November 14, 2020, an average of 138.5 per million in the treatment group have died, and 588.4 per million in the control group, relative risk 0.235. After adjustments, treatment and control deaths become 267.8 per million and 889.8 per million, relative risk 0.30. The probability of an equal or lower relative risk occurring from random group assignments is 0.030. Accounting for predicted changes in spread, we estimate a relative risk of 0.30. The treatment group has a 69.9% lower death rate. Confounding factors affect this estimate. We examined diabetes, obesity, hypertension, life expectancy, population density, urbanization, BCG vaccine use, testing level, and intervention level, which do not account for the effect observed.

https://hcqtrial.com/

Experts Explain: The case for using hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) to treat Covid-19

Hydroxychloroquine is obviously not a panacea for severe cases of Covid-19. Given early, it helps reduce mortality by about half, compared to those not given the drug.

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/coronavirus-vaccine-hydroxychloroquine-hcq-covid-19-treatment-6504276/

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

Edited April 21, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

23 minutes ago, turbguy said:

I must admit, you are persistent in arguments. It is good to "look through the eye's of others".  Hydroxychloroquine is an available and cheap medication. So is aspirin.  And LOTS of other stuff.

I am not familiar with all the acronyms you use, particular 2-letter acronyms.

While the argument you make has power to some, I would rather stay with peer-reviewed material, rather that something like Newsmax or equivalent.  If trials were not done in a controlled clinical trial, you really can't make any definitive statement about it. You can make an argument, but not a definitive statement.  

So, it there a controlled clinical study you can point to that has more "meat" than being anecdotal?  Perhaps there is one that I have overlooked.

BTW, how'd  Hydroxychloroquine work for the ex-president?

BTW, how's Hydroxychloroquine working for Brazil?

  https://abcnews.go.com/International/hydroxychloroquine-miracle-cures-continue-fuel-brazils-outbreak/story?id=76682504

BTW, how'd it work for Africa?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/first-its-kind-african-trial-tests-common-drugs-prevent-severe-covid-19

Africa's apparent avoidance of a predicted health catastrophe really is a head-scratcher.  If its due to use of the Hydroxychloroquine, I don't see any evidence.

TL; DR means Too Long; Didn't Read. Perhaps one of the oldest acronyms on the internet.

The NIH itself linked to numerous successful hcq studies, then simultaneously rejected them on procedural grounds, much like our court system rejected election cases while thoroughly ignoring the evidence. Detect a trend? 

India is known for having fake drugs as is Brazil. In fact people in this country who had been prescribed hcq for decades had their pharmacists substitute other drugs, all for fear of the mighty pharma. Even Trump's own doctors stopped giving him hcq under pressure from… everyone, and he eventually caught… something. 

[-trance + 114]

21 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

TL; DR means Too Long; Didn't Read. Perhaps one of the oldest acronyms on the internet.

The NIH itself linked to numerous successful hcq studies, then simultaneously rejected them on procedural grounds, much like our court system rejected election cases while thoroughly ignoring the evidence. Detect a trend? 

India is known for having fake drugs as is Brazil. In fact people in this country who had been prescribed hcq for decades had their pharmacists substitute other drugs, all for fear of the mighty pharma. Even Trump's own doctors stopped giving him hcq under pressure from… everyone, and he eventually caught… something. 

You want early, small, low-power studies with poor design to override the later, larger, studies with better design? 

I guess you are conservative, by definition hanging onto old ideas and resist change.

The HCQ data, like the election results, have been reviewed; reasonable people are moving on, try not to be left behind or arrested.

 

In other news I got vaccinated today and I happy about it.

[surrept33 + 609]

On 4/20/2021 at 8:03 PM, Ward Smith said:

TL; DR means Too Long; Didn't Read. Perhaps one of the oldest acronyms on the internet.

The NIH itself linked to numerous successful hcq studies, then simultaneously rejected them on procedural grounds, much like our court system rejected election cases while thoroughly ignoring the evidence. Detect a trend? 

India is known for having fake drugs as is Brazil. In fact people in this country who had been prescribed hcq for decades had their pharmacists substitute other drugs, all for fear of the mighty pharma. Even Trump's own doctors stopped giving him hcq under pressure from… everyone, and he eventually caught… something. 

India has a one of the world's largest generic drugs manufacturing industry and Trump had acquired about half of the nation's stockpile from them. Considering how cheap it is, I doubt HCQ supply in the country was faked. 

It'll be interesting to see if the 'double mutant' (or 'triple mutant') strain has increased transmissivity: 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01059-y

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by surrept33

[PTakacs + 59]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:43 AM, Bob D said:

 

 Hotone has been a Chinese sympathizing American hater from day one.  It's hilarious to see Australia referenced as China's enemy.  Australia??  So Australia can't be believed but China can??  Oh wait ... local officials corruption in China.  Not China right.  Local officials?  What a joke!

To be clear, the Chinese gov did release the accurate virus sequence in 01/2020. I am glad both our CDC and Moderna had faith in it and did not treat it as a joke.

[Boat + 1,323]

13 hours ago, PTakacs said:

To be clear, the Chinese gov did release the accurate virus sequence in 01/2020. I am glad both our CDC and Moderna had faith in it and did not treat it as a joke.

These Trump boys can’t follow event timelines and compare them with COVID charts. As with so many issues the truth is no barrier to spin. What amuses me the most is when party spin hits the front page as a Republican nation they all parrot. Then over the next weeks it’s the mad scramble to justify some 1/2 truth. 
These scientists and researchers probably are trained not to have faith but to check and verify. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Boat

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

2 hours ago, Boat said:

These Trump boys can’t follow event timelines and compare them with COVID charts. As with so many issues the truth is no barrier to spin. What amuses me the most is when party spin hits the front page as a Republican nation they all parrot. Then over the next weeks it’s the mad scramble to justify some 1/2 truth. 
These scientists and researchers probably are trained not to have faith but to check and verify. 

Have you ever wondered why you put in/wrote voucher requests rather than approve them? Below is a time line, now before you go off read and ponder as to what really happened..Open Your Eye's Woken One.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jan/23/coronavirus-timeline-from-wuhan-to-washington-state

31 December 2019

 

The World Health Organization (WHO) is alerted by the Chinese authorities of a string of pneumonia-like cases in Wuhan, a city of 11 million people.

Patients are quarantined and work begins on identifying the origin of the pneumonia.

1 January 2020

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies a seafood market suspected to be at the centre of the outbreak and it is closed down.

 

What is coronavirus and how worried should we be?

Read more

9 January

The WHO says the outbreak in Wuhan was caused by a previously unknown type of coronavirus, a broad family ranging from the common cold to more serious illnesses like severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars).

11 January

The Chinese health authorities report the first fatality as a 61-year-old man dies from pneumonia in Wuhan. They revise downwards the number of sick people to 41.

13 January

The virus spreads beyond China’s borders for the first time with a case emerging in Thailand, according to the WHO. The victim is a Chinese woman diagnosed with mild pneumonia who was returning from a trip to Wuhan.

15 January

China’s health commission says it cannot confirm human-to-human transmission of the virus but the possibility “cannot be excluded”. The next day a first case of the virus is confirmed in Japan in someone who had stayed in Wuhan in early January.

17 January

A second person, a 69-year-old man, dies in Wuhan, according to authorities. The same day, the CDC announces that it will begin screening passengers arriving from Wuhan at three airports: San Francisco, New York’s JFK and Los Angeles.

20 January

A third death and more than 100 new cases are announced in China, sparking concerns ahead of the annual lunar new year holiday which begins on 25 January and during which hundreds of millions of Chinese people travel

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

16 hours ago, PTakacs said:

To be clear, the Chinese gov did release the accurate virus sequence in 01/2020. I am glad both our CDC and Moderna had faith in it and did not treat it as a joke.

Yeah, about an hour after it was released by an Australian.

 @Boat, you (○•) should be happy about your fellow countryman's efforts. Don't be angry because Trump did what so many progressives couldn't even dream of doing with Operation Warp Speed. 

[PTakacs + 59]

7 hours ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Yeah, about an hour after it was released by an Australian.

 @Boat, you (○•) should be happy about your fellow countryman's efforts. Don't be angry because Trump did what so many progressives couldn't even dream of doing with Operation Warp Speed. 

Were you not able to read the earlier discussions on this exact topic?

The "Australians" (actually the work and decision to release was mostly based on one "Professor Yong-Zhen Zhang from Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and School of Public Health, Fudan University", as mentioned in that article) released a sequence that had not been peer-reviewed or independently verified, which they acknowledged themselves. Also, presumptively it was the Chinese that provided a virus sample to the "Australians" in the first place (otherwise how did they get a sample).

I expect a government to only provide a sequence that has been adequately reviewed, which process always takes time (the Australians thought the peer review by Nature would take weeks). I hope this was not the case where the Australians forced the hands of the Chinese by rushing to release an unreviewed sequence.

I applaud the effort by all parties, and I am glad that all arrived at the correct sequence. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by PTakacs

[PTakacs + 59]

7 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Have you ever wondered why you put in/wrote voucher requests rather than approve them? Below is a time line, now before you go off read and ponder as to what really happened..Open Your Eye's Woken One.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jan/23/coronavirus-timeline-from-wuhan-to-washington-state

31 December 2019

 

The World Health Organization (WHO) is alerted by the Chinese authorities of a string of pneumonia-like cases in Wuhan, a city of 11 million people.

Patients are quarantined and work begins on identifying the origin of the pneumonia.

1 January 2020

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies a seafood market suspected to be at the centre of the outbreak and it is closed down.

 

What is coronavirus and how worried should we be?

Read more

9 January

The WHO says the outbreak in Wuhan was caused by a previously unknown type of coronavirus, a broad family ranging from the common cold to more serious illnesses like severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars).

11 January

The Chinese health authorities report the first fatality as a 61-year-old man dies from pneumonia in Wuhan. They revise downwards the number of sick people to 41.

13 January

The virus spreads beyond China’s borders for the first time with a case emerging in Thailand, according to the WHO. The victim is a Chinese woman diagnosed with mild pneumonia who was returning from a trip to Wuhan.

15 January

China’s health commission says it cannot confirm human-to-human transmission of the virus but the possibility “cannot be excluded”. The next day a first case of the virus is confirmed in Japan in someone who had stayed in Wuhan in early January.

17 January

A second person, a 69-year-old man, dies in Wuhan, according to authorities. The same day, the CDC announces that it will begin screening passengers arriving from Wuhan at three airports: San Francisco, New York’s JFK and Los Angeles.

20 January

A third death and more than 100 new cases are announced in China, sparking concerns ahead of the annual lunar new year holiday which begins on 25 January and during which hundreds of millions of Chinese people travel

You missed the date, 1/11/2020, when the Chinese gov released an accurate sequence based on which both the CDC and Moderna developed an identical mRNA vaccine on 1/13/2020.

It is interesting how the Guardian article missed 1/11/2020 -- the release was public and online for everyone to see (and report).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ceo-moderna-moment-first-realized-130100215.html

Edited April 23, 2021 by PTakacs

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

2 hours ago, PTakacs said:

I hope this was not the case where the Australians forced the hands of the Chinese by rushing to release an unreviewed sequence.

I was able to read it all, yes. You came to the conclusion that I had hoped you would, finally. Not like peer review would have made a difference in this case. If you were studying the effects of a vaccine, sure. The sequence of a virus that had been studied for a couple months though? No. 

Your faith in the "good will" of the chinese is....misplaced and naive. 

[PTakacs + 59]

1 hour ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

I was able to read it all, yes. You came to the conclusion that I had hoped you would, finally. Not like peer review would have made a difference in this case. If you were studying the effects of a vaccine, sure. The sequence of a virus that had been studied for a couple months though? No. 

Your faith in the "good will" of the chinese is....misplaced and naive. 

No one could predict the future -- only with hindsight could one discuss the concept that "Not like peer review would have made a difference in this case." Next time, should the CDC and Moderna rely a sequence released by some (reputable) scientists that have not been peer reviewed? I certainly hope not.  

As to goodwill (it's one word), I note again that it was a Chinese scientist working at a state-sponsored university (headed by a CCP secretariat, I assume) in Shanghai that helped sequencing the virus for the Australian team, probably relying on a virus sample provided by the government in Wuhan (Shanghai was not a hotspot at the time). It looks to me that the Chinese were the ones taking on the more substantive (i.e., scientific, not political) efforts.  Do you remember what we were doing in early January? Seemed to me more politics than science.

As GW just said, politics is a tough business. But in the period of a pandemic, playing politics is the "misplaced and naive" thing to do, especially for a country that is supposed to be a world leader.  I only feel relieved that we still have world-leading scientists who not only excel at making vaccines but also made the sound and timely judgment to rely on the sequence released by the Chinese gov. Imagine if they too played the sophisticated game of politics!

Edited April 23, 2021 by PTakacs

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

5 hours ago, PTakacs said:

You missed the date, 1/11/2020, when the Chinese gov released an accurate sequence based on which both the CDC and Moderna developed an identical mRNA vaccine on 1/13/2020.

It is interesting how the Guardian article missed 1/11/2020 -- the release was public and online for everyone to see (and report).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ceo-moderna-moment-first-realized-130100215.html

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/chinese-researchers-reveal-draft-genome-virus-implicated-wuhan-pneumonia-outbreak

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyFarrar/status/1215913768670068736?s=20

https://virological.org/t/novel-2019-coronavirus-genome/319

Edited April 23, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[PTakacs + 59]

9 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/chinese-researchers-reveal-draft-genome-virus-implicated-wuhan-pneumonia-outbreak

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyFarrar/status/1215913768670068736?s=20

https://virological.org/t/novel-2019-coronavirus-genome/319

I have to say that it appears only the more objective (i.e., scientific) outlets picked up the release. The "mainstream" media conveniently took a more political approach. 

Also, I am not sure why the Australian article posted only the photos of select true "Australians" and called them the the leaders in sequencing the virus (perhaps due to Australians being natural-born leaders?), when the actual work appeared to be done by Professor Yong-Zhen Zhang and his consortium in China -- if the sequence had been wrong, people would have blamed Zhang and his consortium, as it was his name on the signature line. "Modesty has its limits and on this anniversary of Australia’s first COVID-19 case, it’s time to tell the story of how our scientists took a bold leading role, bringing the world with them, as the pandemic began."  -- I digress.

Applauses to all the contributing scientists again. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by PTakacs

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

28 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

I have to say that it appears only the more objective (i.e., scientific) outlets picked up the release. The "mainstream" media conveniently took a more political approach. 

Also, I am not sure why the Australian article posted only the photos of select true "Australians" and called them the the leaders in sequencing the virus (perhaps due to Australians being natural-born leaders?), when the actual work appeared to be done by Professor Yong-Zhen Zhang and his consortium in China -- if the sequence had been wrong, people would have blamed Zhang and his consortium, as it was his name on the signature line. "Modesty has its limits and on this anniversary of Australia’s first COVID-19 case, it’s time to tell the story of how our scientists took a bold leading role, bringing the world with them, as the pandemic began."  -- I digress.

Applauses to all the contributing scientists again. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8373007/Beijing-admits-coronavirus-DIDNT-start-Wuhans-market-DID-come-from.html

With regard to those three American biologists, they were ‘surprised’ to find the virus ‘already pre-adapted to human transmission’, contrasting its previously known stability with a coronavirus that evolved quickly during the global Sars epidemic between 2002 and 2004. Last week, I revealed that Australian scientists had similarly found Sars-CoV-2 – the new strain of coronavirus that causes disease – is ‘uniquely adapted to infect humans’.