.

[Roch + 537]

.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Roch

[Roch + 537]

2 hours ago, Roch said:

Fauci and Birx gave interviews last weekend in attempt to rewrite history.

Trump could no longer keep quiet.  Below are excerpts from an article on his response to Fauci and Birx.

                 ______________________

"Based on their interviews, I felt it was time to speak up about Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx, two self-promoters trying to reinvent history to cover for their bad instincts and faulty recommendations, which I fortunately almost always overturned. They had bad policy decisions that would have left our country open to China and others, closed to reopening our economy, and years away from an approved vaccine—putting millions of lives at risk.

We developed American vaccines by an American President in record time, nine months, which is saving the entire world. We bought billions of dollars of these vaccines on a calculated bet that they would work, perhaps the most important bet in the history of the world. Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx moved far too slowly, and if it were up to them we’d currently be locked in our basements as our country suffered through a financial depression. Families, and children in particular, would be suffering the mental strains of this disaster like never before. 

In a fake interview last night on CNN, Dr. Fauci, who said he was an athlete in college but couldn’t throw a baseball even close to home plate, it was a “roller,” tried to take credit for the vaccine, when in fact he said it would take three to five years, and probably longer, to have it approved. Dr. Fauci was incapable of pressing the FDA to move it through faster. I was the one to get it done, and even the fake news media knows and reports this.

Dr. Fauci is also the king of “flip-flops” and moving the goalposts to make himself look as good as possible. He fought me so hard because he wanted to keep our country open to countries like China. I closed it against his strong recommendation, which saved many lives. Dr. Fauci also said we didn’t need to wear masks, then a few months later he said we needed to wear masks, and now, two or three of them. Fauci spent U.S. money on the Wuhan lab in China—and we now know how that worked out. 

Dr. Birx is a proven liar with very little credibility left. Many of her recommendations were viewed as “pseudo-science,” and Dr. Fauci would always talk negatively about her and, in fact, would ask not to be in the same room with her. The States who followed her lead, like California, had worse outcomes on Covid, and ruined the lives of countless children because they couldn’t go to school, ruined many businesses, and an untold number of Americans who were killed by the lockdowns themselves. Dr. Birx was a terrible medical advisor, which is why I seldom followed her advice. Her motto should be “Do as I say, not as I do.” Who can forget when Dr. Birx gave a huge mandate to the people of our Nation to not travel, and then traveled a great distance to see her family for Thanksgiving—only to have them call the police and turn her in? She then, embarrassingly for her, resigned. 

Finally, Dr. Birx says she can’t hear very well, but I can. There was no “very difficult” phone call, other than Dr. Birx’s policies that would have led us directly into a COVID caused depression. She was a very negative voice who didn’t have the right answers. Time has proven me correct. I only kept Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx on because they worked for the U.S. government for so long—they are like a bad habit! "

Donald J. Trump served as the 45th President of the United States. The preceding was released as an official statement from the former President’s office.

Trump advisor Peter Navarro says Fauci authorized Funds for the Wuhan Lab.  He then argues that Fauci went behind Trump's back and allowed the monies to be used for "gain of function" research . Excerpts from article below.

                ______________________

"But Navarro accused Fauci on Monday of not only giving China money for the research, but said he "went behind the backs of the Trump administration."

"In 2015, the Obama administration's National Security Council, to their credit, stopped Fauci and Francis Collins at NIH from allowing this gain of function research," Navarro claimed. "But after Donald Trump was elected president, Fauci "came in through the back door and said, no, this lab, you can do gain functional research ... the virus, in all likelihood, came from the house Tony Fauci built ... (he) has to be held accountable. There are strong questions about where the virus came from."

Navarro also commented on the news that companies such as Nike, Adidas, and others are facing backlash from the Chinese Communist Party over their boycott of cotton and other materials from the Xinjiang region over the treatment of the Uyghur Muslims and other minorities there. 

"One of the last things we did at the Trump White House was to impose stiff sanctions, withhold the release of orders on all products from Xinjiang," said Navarro. "It is a huge huge human rights abuse issue."

But the most important thing to remember about the Chinese Communist Party is that it won't "abide by any deal they negotiate," said Navarro, and that includes the deal reached under the Trump administration, "one of the greatest deals in history," but in May 2019, the Chinese walked away from it. 

This resulted in "what is called the skinny deal, and it's really not worth the paper it's written on," said Navarro. "The only thing that is holding back the Chinese Communist Party from taking this economy is our Trump tariffs. God help us if Joe Biden lifts those tariffs."

Edited March 30, 2021 by Roch

[Symmetry + 109]

17 minutes ago, Roch said:

 

We developed American vaccines by an American President in record time, nine months, which is saving the entire world.

Yeah, Trump was hard at work in those labs...

Credit Trump for the vaccines if you wish, but be aware this will continue to fracture your cult. A good chunk of them continue to believe Trump's original lies about it being a simple "China flu" that will go away "like a miracle."

 Now trump is saying he saved the entire world with a vaccine  Keep the narrative straight!

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Symmetry

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

49 minutes ago, Symmetry said:

Yeah, Trump was hard at work in those labs...

Credit Trump for the vaccines if you wish, but be aware this will continue to fracture your cult. A good chunk of them continue to believe Trump's original lies about it being a simple "China flu" that will go away "like a miracle."

 Now trump is saying he saved the entire world with a vaccine  Keep the narrative straight!

 

 

 

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

Former federal prosecutor: Trump admitted to '2nd degree murder' in Woodward interview (September, 2020)

 

https://news.yahoo.com/former-federal-prosecutor-trump-admitted-190200145.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=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&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMdckgbmlYsXWHn-gmhjHbdB7WTOmF1itUapXFSdQCBg5kZUZxeKuDs0kZ8tsyx0347-ToN_oJ0lxY0gGTvzc1zvm1MogNOX-RTuNPxGJNWKVFhJYNyl3Y_f_uF95Dv7fLjM2MAnbl9x6TR71xLDjYUi1r9RfVgijAWDn-t6rRBv

Former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner thinks President Trump's coronavirus admissions should land him in prison. . .

"There are only two elements for second-degree murder. The first is you caused the death of another," Kirschner said Thursday. That factor was fulfilled because Trump "was lying to the American people about the danger this virus posed," and now 190,000 people are dead, Kirschner said.

"The second element is the intent element," which would "get tricky if we didn't have Trump's incriminating admissions," he continued. But "in my opinion as a career prosecutor," Trump admitted to "conscious disregard" of the risk his coronavirus downplay created, thus admitting to "second-degree murder" that he "must be held accountable" for, Kirschner finished.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[turbguy + 1,543]

3 hours ago, Roch said:

Fauci and Birx gave interviews last weekend full of misinformation in an attempt to rewrite history.

Trump could no longer keep quiet.  Below are excerpts from an article on his response to Fauci and Birx.

 

                 ______________________

 

"Based on their interviews, I felt it was time to speak up about Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx, two self-promoters trying to reinvent history to cover for their bad instincts and faulty recommendations, which I fortunately almost always overturned. They had bad policy decisions that would have left our country open to China and others, closed to reopening our economy, and years away from an approved vaccine—putting millions of lives at risk.

We developed American vaccines by an American President in record time, nine months, which is saving the entire world. We bought billions of dollars of these vaccines on a calculated bet that they would work, perhaps the most important bet in the history of the world. Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx moved far too slowly, and if it were up to them we’d currently be locked in our basements as our country suffered through a financial depression. Families, and children in particular, would be suffering the mental strains of this disaster like never before. 

In a fake interview last night on CNN, Dr. Fauci, who said he was an athlete in college but couldn’t throw a baseball even close to home plate, it was a “roller,” tried to take credit for the vaccine, when in fact he said it would take three to five years, and probably longer, to have it approved. Dr. Fauci was incapable of pressing the FDA to move it through faster. I was the one to get it done, and even the fake news media knows and reports this.

Dr. Fauci is also the king of “flip-flops” and moving the goalposts to make himself look as good as possible. He fought me so hard because he wanted to keep our country open to countries like China. I closed it against his strong recommendation, which saved many lives. Dr. Fauci also said we didn’t need to wear masks, then a few months later he said we needed to wear masks, and now, two or three of them. Fauci spent U.S. money on the Wuhan lab in China—and we now know how that worked out. 

Dr. Birx is a proven liar with very little credibility left. Many of her recommendations were viewed as “pseudo-science,” and Dr. Fauci would always talk negatively about her and, in fact, would ask not to be in the same room with her. The States who followed her lead, like California, had worse outcomes on Covid, and ruined the lives of countless children because they couldn’t go to school, ruined many businesses, and an untold number of Americans who were killed by the lockdowns themselves. Dr. Birx was a terrible medical advisor, which is why I seldom followed her advice. Her motto should be “Do as I say, not as I do.” Who can forget when Dr. Birx gave a huge mandate to the people of our Nation to not travel, and then traveled a great distance to see her family for Thanksgiving—only to have them call the police and turn her in? She then, embarrassingly for her, resigned. 

Finally, Dr. Birx says she can’t hear very well, but I can. There was no “very difficult” phone call, other than Dr. Birx’s policies that would have led us directly into a COVID caused depression. She was a very negative voice who didn’t have the right answers. Time has proven me correct. I only kept Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx on because they worked for the U.S. government for so long—they are like a bad habit! "

Donald J. Trump served as the 45th President of the United States. The preceding was released as an official statement from the former President’s office.

Why would anyone trust a statement from a guy who knowingly and blatantly lied about this disease to the American People?

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

20 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Why would anyone trust a statement from a guy who knowingly and blatantly lied about this disease to the American People?

To keep a possible disatour from the US. One does not need to be reminded of the ugliness humanity when they become frightened.

A perfect case in point would be a well respected profession demanded the vaccine in front of the aged and elderly. Even after the govt caved into there demands this group refused to go back to work.

Only after billions and billions say 150 billion was given to there group did the cave..and only due to threats from local governor's...NEED I SAY MORE!

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

48 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Why would anyone trust a statement from a guy who knowingly and blatantly lied about this disease to the American People?

When a 21 year old dies in a motorcycle wreck and it is yet another Covid death you have to wonder just how many deaths have been falsely attributed to Covid? It's a bad cold for 99.97% of the population, at worst. But yeah, let's destroy our own economy. 

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

11 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

But yeah, let's destroy our own economy. 

If Trump had followed the South Korean model, it wouldn't have been necessary to shut down a large part of the economy, and he would not have caused the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.  Instead, Trump--and his sycophantic followers--denied reality, with the obvious consequences.  

Ayn Rand in 1961:

"He is free to make the wrong choice, but not free to succeed with it. He is free to evade reality, he is free to unfocus his mind and stumble blindly down any road he pleases, but not free to avoid the abyss he refuses to see. Knowledge, for any conscious organism, is the means of survival; to a living consciousness, every “is” implies an “ought.” Man is free to choose not to be conscious, but not free to escape the penalty of unconsciousness: destruction."

 

WSJ:  How South Korea Successfully Managed Coronavirus (9/25/20)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lessons-from-south-korea-on-how-to-manage-covid-11601044329

Excerpt:

“South Korea appears to have cracked the code for managing the coronavirus. Its solution is straightforward, flexible and relatively easy to replicate. . . .As a result, South Korea never had to mandate a lockdown, so restaurants and business were able to stay open, cushioning the blow to the economy.”

[turbguy + 1,543]

12 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

To keep a possible disatour from the US. One does not need to be reminded of the ugliness humanity when they become frightened.

A perfect case in point would be a well respected profession demanded the vaccine in front of the aged and elderly. Even after the govt caved into there demands this group refused to go back to work.

Only after billions and billions say 150 billion was given to there group did the cave..and only due to threats from local governor's...NEED I SAY MORE!

So, the American Public can't handle the truth.

I have always found the truth a better path than a lie.

If you feel differently, that's another view.

Eventually, the truth comes out.

For those that don't believe COVID-19 is a serious issue, requiring telling the truth up front, please explain all the red plus marks on the excess death graphic below...

An yes, it includes motorcycle accidents and mass shootings.

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by turbguy

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, turbguy said:

So, the American Public can't handle the truth.

I have always found the truth a better path than a lie.

If you feel differently, that's another view.

Eventually, the truth comes out.

For those that don't believe COVID-19 is a serious issue, requiring telling the truth up front, please explain all the red plus marks on the excess death graphic below...

An yes, it includes motorcycle accidents and mass shootings.

 

So trivial to cook the books. I've already reported on "excess deaths" caused by reasonably healthy people with decades to live who couldn't or wouldn't go in for routine treatment for fear of the scary virus. My cardiologist neighbor was not allowed to perform routine life saving procedures because "we need to keep the ICU empty, just in case there's a flood of Covid cases" which never happened. A mutual friend of ours, his patient died specifically because of this idiocy. "Excess deaths" my ass 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Revisionist history equals revisionist history

Trump is right and the drooling MSM knows it

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

So, the American Public can't handle the truth.

I have always found the truth a better path than a lie.

If you feel differently, that's another view.

Eventually, the truth comes out.

For those that don't believe COVID-19 is a serious issue, requiring telling the truth up front, please explain all the red plus marks on the excess death graphic below...

An yes, it includes motorcycle accidents and mass shootings.

 

Turbguy i find you to be quite intelligent and at times thoughtful, Now i ask you this...If and i say if you were sitting next to a loved one awaiting to doctors diagnose of this loved ones sudden illness and in he walked with a grim look on his face. Opened up his charts and began to unroll the diagnosis in the following manner. I am sorry but you have developed pancreatic cancer, at best you have 2 yrs to live with extensive radiation and chemotherapy treatments. Along the this journey to death you will also experience sever weigh loss and the inability to digest many food's.

 Would you just prefer to dress back up and go home taking care of your affairs? i can supply opioids to mitigate any discomfort you may experience during the transition time.

One can only imagine the rage and anger of such a disclosure, the abject disregard for humane dignity. How does one tell another they are about to die without offending that person, covid 19 was here and people were going to die. Only a abject foolhardy idiot would pursue such a course..one devoid of humanity.

I have yet to meet a doctor giving a prognosis that does not keep the hope alive, i have yet to meet a doctor that absolutely knows the the patient condition is terminal..ever state boldly the patient is terminal with months to live.

Doctors are in charge of a patient and have responsibilities to there patients. Trump while not a doctor, was however in charge of the country and did not state the morbid projections openly..He rode the lighting of political discord however did he not?

Now your opinion is your own and my opinion is mine, this man Trump did however push forward on a vaccine breaking all the norms of science and at great ridicule at the time..and today the US and the world finally have new hope from a vaccine made and delivered in a time frame that has never been accomplished in history.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Symmetry + 109]

18 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

I have yet to meet a doctor giving a prognosis that does not keep the hope alive, i have yet to meet a doctor that absolutely knows the the patient condition is terminal..ever state boldly the patient is terminal with months to live.

 

That is your lack of experience. There are whole branches of medicine related to palliative and geriatric care.

Little to no hope is provided with many diseases and they even offer end-of-life assistance in many places.

Perhaps your liberty for doctor assisted suicide is suppressed by outdated, conservative ideas based on religious, not medical beliefs?   Yes, the right wing suppresses liberties plenty.  No abortion for you dirty woman!  Go to Jail drug using hippy! Cut your hair!  Get off my lawn!

 

But wear a mask for 10 minute at the grocery!  *gasp*

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Symmetry

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

11 minutes ago, Symmetry said:

That is your lack of experience. There are whole branches of medicine related to palliative and geriatric care.

Little to no hope is provided with many diseases and they even offer end-of-life assistance in many places.

Perhaps your liberty for doctor assisted suicide is suppressed by outdated, conservative ideas based on religious, not medical beliefs?   Yes the right wing suppresses liberties plenty.  No abortion for you dirty woman!  Go to Jail drug using hippy! Cut your hair!  Get off my lawn!

 

But wear a mask for 10 minute at the grocery!  *gasp*

 

If you only knew how hilarious your commentary is....Controversy compounded with Controversy....You have little or no clue as to whom i am nor my profession nor my personal network.

https://www.oncnursingnews.com/view/death-with-dignity-remains-a-controversial-topic

Edited March 30, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Symmetry + 109]

38 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

If you only knew how hilarious your commentary is....Controversy compounded with Controversy....You have little or no clue as to whom i am nor my profession nor my personal network.

https://www.oncnursingnews.com/view/death-with-dignity-remains-a-controversial-topic

 

Then do not act ignorant if you know about end-of-life liberty problems.

My sister is a nurse. I know all about legal and semi-illegal end-of-life care.  Often it is given as a blanket prescription for the nurse to "treat pain" despite the physician knowing that the required level of drug to treat pain will kill the patient (who will die anyways).

She hated ICU despite the 1:1 ratio and switched to orthopaedics.

I have indicated my end-of life preferences to many people... take my organs but do not allow brain injury.

[surrept33 + 609]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

So trivial to cook the books. I've already reported on "excess deaths" caused by reasonably healthy people with decades to live who couldn't or wouldn't go in for routine treatment for fear of the scary virus. My cardiologist neighbor was not allowed to perform routine life saving procedures because "we need to keep the ICU empty, just in case there's a flood of Covid cases" which never happened. A mutual friend of ours, his patient died specifically because of this idiocy. "Excess deaths" my ass 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comorbidity

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

1 hour ago, Symmetry said:

Then do not act ignorant if you know about end-of-life liberty problems.

My sister is a nurse. I know all about legal and semi-illegal end-of-life care.  Often it is given as a blanket prescription for the nurse to "treat pain" despite the physician knowing that the required level of drug to treat pain will kill the patient (who will die anyways).

She hated ICU despite the 1:1 ratio and switched to orthopaedics.

I have indicated my end-of life preferences to many people... take my organs but do not allow brain injury.

Hmm ignorance...

lack of knowledge or information.

"he acted in ignorance of basic procedures"

 

 

I assume Trump should have put the US citizenship into consultation therapy prior to any announcement? Or are you merely attempting to derail a commentary with conflating reasoning

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/

 

There are times you defy all reasoning....Or your merely Trolling...self moderating...or taking notes and reporting opps almost forgot threatening......Ahh Conflating is a term you might endear?

 

Conflate and equate look and sound similar, and they appear in the same kinds of contexts, which makes them ripe for confusion.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,543]

3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Turbguy i find you to be quite intelligent and at times thoughtful, Now i ask you this...If and i say if you were sitting next to a loved one awaiting to doctors diagnose of this loved ones sudden illness and in he walked with a grim look on his face. Opened up his charts and began to unroll the diagnosis in the following manner. I am sorry but you have developed pancreatic cancer, at best you have 2 yrs to live with extensive radiation and chemotherapy treatments. Along the this journey to death you will also experience sever weigh loss and the inability to digest many food's.

 Would you just prefer to dress back up and go home taking care of your affairs? i can supply opioids to mitigate any discomfort you may experience during the transition time.

One can only imagine the rage and anger of such a disclosure, the abject disregard for humane dignity. How does one tell another they are about to die without offending that person, covid 19 was here and people were going to die. Only a abject foolhardy idiot would pursue such a course..one devoid of humanity.

I have yet to meet a doctor giving a prognosis that does not keep the hope alive, i have yet to meet a doctor that absolutely knows the the patient condition is terminal..ever state boldly the patient is terminal with months to live.

Doctors are in charge of a patient and have responsibilities to there patients. Trump while not a doctor, was however in charge of the country and did not state the morbid projections openly..He rode the lighting of political discord however did he not?

Now your opinion is your own and my opinion is mine, this man Trump did however push forward on a vaccine breaking all the norms of science and at great ridicule at the time..and today the US and the world finally have new hope from a vaccine made and delivered in a time frame that has never been accomplished in history.

Have you heard of these places called hospices? They are used.  By many.

I can find no reasoning for our prior president to hold any punches.  It was lie after repeated lie.

Did his Warp Speed team perform well?  I would say it did.  It would have been much slower without recent development of cheap and rapid gene sequencing, primarily due to advances in computing.   Warp Speed was a good move.   His politicizing and outright non-support of common public health measures was not.

I hearken back to the spring a year ago when he was demanding that armed citizens "liberate" their states so that people could once again be free to do the things that they had always done; to return to their lives without any thought or care of how their carelessness might impact others.

The current president is being responsible, something that his predecessor was not.

Edited March 30, 2021 by turbguy

[turbguy + 1,543]

5 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

So trivial to cook the books. I've already reported on "excess deaths" caused by reasonably healthy people with decades to live who couldn't or wouldn't go in for routine treatment for fear of the scary virus. My cardiologist neighbor was not allowed to perform routine life saving procedures because "we need to keep the ICU empty, just in case there's a flood of Covid cases" which never happened. A mutual friend of ours, his patient died specifically because of this idiocy. "Excess deaths" my ass 

So your explanation for the red plus marks is, avoided life saving health care due to COVID-19 restrictions, either self-imposed or imposed by others.  That could explain some of it.  And perhaps "mislabeling" of cause of deaths (should we drill down as to cause), which could be true

Dr. Deborah Birx said: “If someone dies WITH COVID-19, we are counting that”. In other words, she is admitting that people who are known not to have died FROM COVID-19 are counted as COVID-19 deaths if they test positive for the virus. This means that people who go to the ICU and die from cancer, heart attacks, strokes, car accidents, shootings, falls, suicide, etc. are counted as deaths FROM COVID-19 because the person tested positive.

Yet, it is well known that the COVID-19 test gives false positives.

Note that chart includes DEATHS FROM ALL CAUSES, not just COVID-19.

And those that were denied providing routine life-saving procedures did nothing.  With space available.  With no thought to liability or their oath.  I have heard that elective procedures were delayed, but not  "life-saving" procedures, as long as other options were available, such as dialysis, or mechanical hearts.

"The books are cooked".

Riiiiight...............

Edited March 30, 2021 by turbguy

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

4 hours ago, Symmetry said:

take my organs but do not allow brain injury.

Too late

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, turbguy said:

So your explanation for the red plus marks is, avoided life saving health care due to COVID-19 restrictions, either self-imposed or imposed by others.  That could explain some of it.  And perhaps "mislabeling" of cause of deaths (should we drill down as to cause), which could be true

Dr. Deborah Birx said: “If someone dies WITH COVID-19, we are counting that”. In other words, she is admitting that people who are known not to have died FROM COVID-19 are counted as COVID-19 deaths if they test positive for the virus. This means that people who go to the ICU and die from cancer, heart attacks, strokes, car accidents, shootings, falls, suicide, etc. are counted as deaths FROM COVID-19 because the person tested positive.

Yet, it is well known that the COVID-19 test gives false positives.

Note that chart includes DEATHS FROM ALL CAUSES, not just COVID-19.

And those that were denied providing routine life-saving procedures did nothing.  With space available.  With no thought to liability or their oath.  I have heard that elective procedures were delayed, but not  "life-saving" procedures, as long as other options were available, such as dialysis, or mechanical hearts.

"The books are cooked".

Riiiiight...............

At times you're intelligent, then you get like this.…

Technically, if the omniscient doctor. Knows the patient is about to die, he/she could call it and demand care. But reality doesn't work that way. Doctors go by the numbers, and if your numbers aren't horrendous they aren't allowed to intervene in your behalf. And if you're a patient and your numbers are six months old those doctors don't have a chance in Hades of over riding the protocol. Once you're dead they're sure to "adjust" protocol, for "you" only

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

15 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

At times you're intelligent, then you get like this.…

Technically, if the omniscient doctor. Knows the patient is about to die, he/she could call it and demand care. But reality doesn't work that way. Doctors go by the numbers, and if your numbers aren't horrendous they aren't allowed to intervene in your behalf. And if you're a patient and your numbers are six months old those doctors don't have a chance in Hades of over riding the protocol. Once you're dead they're sure to "adjust" protocol, for "you" only

I was not sure if i should laugh or cry about that commentary....Absolutely  take no offense here but the majority of engineers scare the hell out of me...and rule No.2 never upon any circumstances give them a open check book. One of my sons is a engineer it was and still is quite painful at times...LMAO

Edited March 31, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,543]

Will there soon be "Vaccine Passports"?

People are still free to choose not to be vaccinated, but might not be allowed in stores, restaurants, theaters, concerts, airlines, etc., if they have chosen not to be vaccinated.

It's their choice, but it should be the business owners' as well.

If the Supreme Court says the baker doesn't have to do a cake for a gay wedding, then an airline should be able to refuse a passenger who endangers other passengers.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:14 PM, turbguy said:

So, the American Public can't handle the truth.

I have always found the truth a better path than a lie.

If you feel differently, that's another view.

Eventually, the truth comes out.

For those that don't believe COVID-19 is a serious issue, requiring telling the truth up front, please explain all the red plus marks on the excess death graphic below...

An yes, it includes motorcycle accidents and mass shootings.

 

I'll go with Johns Hopkins on this.

A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19

COURTESY OF GENEVIEVE BRIAND

After retrieving data on the CDC website, Briand compiled a graph representing percentages of total deaths per age category from early February to early September.

According to new data, the U.S. currently ranks first in total COVID-19 cases, new cases per day and deaths. Genevieve Briand, assistant program director of the Applied Economics master’s degree program at Hopkins, critically analyzed the effect of COVID-19 on U.S. deaths using data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in her webinar titled “COVID-19 Deaths: A Look at U.S. Data.”

From mid-March to mid-September, U.S. total deaths have reached 1.7 million, of which 200,000, or 12% of total deaths, are COVID-19-related. Instead of looking directly at COVID-19 deaths, Briand focused on total deaths per age group and per cause of death in the U.S. and used this information to shed light on the effects of COVID-19.

She explained that the significance of COVID-19 on U.S. deaths can be fully understood only through comparison to the number of total deaths in the United States. 

After retrieving data on the CDC website, Briand compiled a graph representing percentages of total deaths per age category from early February to early September, which includes the period from before COVID-19 was detected in the U.S. to after infection rates soared. 

Surprisingly, the deaths of older people stayed the same before and after COVID-19. Since COVID-19 mainly affects the elderly, experts expected an increase in the percentage of deaths in older age groups. However, this increase is not seen from the CDC data. In fact, the percentages of deaths among all age groups remain relatively the same. 

“The reason we have a higher number of reported COVID-19 deaths among older individuals than younger individuals is simply because every day in the U.S. older individuals die in higher numbers than younger individuals,” Briand said.

Briand also noted that 50,000 to 70,000 deaths are seen both before and after COVID-19, indicating that this number of deaths was normal long before COVID-19 emerged. Therefore, according to Briand, not only has COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths. 

These data analyses suggest that in contrast to most people’s assumptions, the number of deaths by COVID-19 is not alarming. In fact, it has relatively no effect on deaths in the United States.

This comes as a shock to many people. How is it that the data lie so far from our perception? 

To answer that question, Briand shifted her focus to the deaths per causes ranging from 2014 to 2020. There is a sudden increase in deaths in 2020 due to COVID-19. This is no surprise because COVID-19 emerged in the U.S. in early 2020, and thus COVID-19-related deaths increased drastically afterward.

Analysis of deaths per cause in 2018 revealed that the pattern of seasonal increase in the total number of deaths is a result of the rise in deaths by all causes, with the top three being heart disease, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia.

“This is true every year. Every year in the U.S. when we observe the seasonal ups and downs, we have an increase of deaths due to all causes,” Briand pointed out.

When Briand looked at the 2020 data during that seasonal period, COVID-19-related deaths exceeded deaths from heart diseases. This was highly unusual since heart disease has always prevailed as the leading cause of deaths. However, when taking a closer look at the death numbers, she noted something strange. As Briand compared the number of deaths per cause during that period in 2020 to 2018, she noticed that instead of the expected drastic increase across all causes, there was a significant decrease in deaths due to heart disease. Even more surprising, as seen in the graph below, this sudden decline in deaths is observed for all other causes. 

COURTESY OF GENEVIEVE BRIAND 

Graph depicts the number of deaths per cause during that period in 2020 to 2018.

This trend is completely contrary to the pattern observed in all previous years. Interestingly, as depicted in the table below, the total decrease in deaths by other causes almost exactly equals the increase in deaths by COVID-19. This suggests, according to Briand, that the COVID-19 death toll is misleading. Briand believes that deaths due to heart diseases, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia may instead be recategorized as being due to COVID-19. 

COURTESY OF GENEVIEVE BRIAND  

Graph depicts the total decrease in deaths by various causes, including COVID-19.  

The CDC classified all deaths that are related to COVID-19 simply as COVID-19 deaths. Even patients dying from other underlying diseases but are infected with COVID-19 count as COVID-19 deaths. This is likely the main explanation as to why COVID-19 deaths drastically increased while deaths by all other diseases experienced a significant decrease.

“All of this points to no evidence that COVID-19 created any excess deaths. Total death numbers are not above normal death numbers. We found no evidence to the contrary,” Briand concluded.

In an interview with The News-Letter, Briand addressed the question of whether COVID-19 deaths can be called misleading since the infection might have exacerbated and even led to deaths by other underlying diseases.

“If [the COVID-19 death toll] was not misleading at all, what we should have observed is an increased number of heart attacks and increased COVID-19 numbers. But a decreased number of heart attacks and all the other death causes doesn’t give us a choice but to point to some misclassification,” Briand replied.

In other words, the effect of COVID-19 on deaths in the U.S. is considered problematic only when it increases the total number of deaths or the true death burden by a significant amount in addition to the expected deaths by other causes. Since the crude number of total deaths by all causes before and after COVID-19 has stayed the same, one can hardly say, in Briand’s view, that COVID-19 deaths are concerning.

Briand also mentioned that more research and data are needed to truly decipher the effect of COVID-19 on deaths in the United States.

Throughout the talk, Briand constantly emphasized that although COVID-19 is a serious national and global problem, she also stressed that society should never lose focus of the bigger picture — death in general. 

The death of a loved one, from COVID-19 or from other causes, is always tragic, Briand explained. Each life is equally important and we should be reminded that even during a global pandemic we should not forget about the tragic loss of lives from other causes.

According to Briand, the over-exaggeration of the COVID-19 death number may be due to the constant emphasis on COVID-19-related deaths and the habitual overlooking of deaths by other natural causes in society. 

During an interview with The News-Letter after the event, Poorna Dharmasena, a master’s candidate in Applied Economics, expressed his opinion about Briand’s concluding remarks.

“At the end of the day, it’s still a deadly virus. And over-exaggeration or not, to a certain degree, is irrelevant,” Dharmasena said.

When asked whether the public should be informed about this exaggeration in death numbers, Dharmasena stated that people have a right to know the truth. However, COVID-19 should still continuously be treated as a deadly disease to safeguard the vulnerable population.