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[surrept33 + 612]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

Was the smallpox vaccine experimental? Was the R naught of smallpox equivalent to Covid, which has never been actually measured? Colorado just stopped vaccinating after too many immediate adverse reactions. 

Perhaps you heard of Louis Pasteur? Before the theory of the immune system and the theory of the vaccine, plagues swept Europe. No worries, said Mr. Ignorance, the Black Death was simply a visitation that nature would simply forever give humans a cross to bear. Sure, there was a lot of quacks and priests, and like most of science ever concocted, to advance the state of our collective ignorance, Pasteur had to assume a lot of risk. But Pasteur was quick, and he stood on the shoulders of giants before him. He had a scope.

Before Pasteur, the state of surgery was advancing, but medicine was not. Of course, these are interrelated, for example, until Lister came around with the antiseptic a lot of successful operations failed due to the germ. What did Pasteur do? He conducted a lot of "experiments" and had a lot of leaps of thought about how to cure infectious diseases. 

For example, he took fermentation theory and made the leap of thought that similar effects could make things putrid. He told France's wine makers to pasteurize their wine. Who would have thunk? Pasteur then saved the silk industry by looking at "specs" that were barely visible to the human eye that would kill silkworms. He made the leap of thought the specs were alive and multiplied extremely rapidly. He then saved the sheep industry by figuring out, after much persistence, how to weaken an anthrax bacteria. 

Then he had his life's work that took even much persistence. He saved France from the danger of hydrophobia, but he had to defeat the virus, something that may strangely cause disease but not be alive. Mad dogs, wolves, rabbits, guinea pigs, monkeys, would bite people and give people hydrophobia, a very irrational disorder.

In order to find a cure, he had a create a trial and error system. He took took spinal cords from dead animals that had rabies and put them into bottles. They would shrivel as the organic matter died, and the virus would get attenuated. He injected the oldest amount of tissue into brains of dogs, and then gave them stronger and stronger "versions" of the viruses from mixtures of tissue and viruses that had higher activity.  

Miraculously the dogs would be immune. He had figured out how to train immune systems.

He then had to take a chance and try it on humans. It worked.

Obviously our standards of medical ethics have "evolved" since Pasteur's day, but it wasn't that long ago in the grand scheme of things.

[turbguy + 1,554]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

Was the smallpox vaccine experimental? Was the R naught of smallpox equivalent to Covid, which has never been actually measured? Colorado just stopped vaccinating after too many immediate adverse reactions.

All vaccines were (and perhaps still are) experimental at some point.  That included the cowpox inoculation used in the 18th century.

R naught is not a fixed number. It's a "jumping off point" that is influenced by many factors, such as our behaviors, age, genetics, health history.

R naught is a moving target, changing with time and conditions, and is important if it remains greater than 1.

Covid-19 seems to be easily greater than 1 (IMO).    

Colorado has not stopped vaccinations.  A health organization halted at one site, after something like 0.6% of about 1700 Janssen injections having adverse (but not inconsistent with expected) reactions during a single day.   

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

All vaccines were (and perhaps still are) experimental at some point.  That included the cowpox inoculation used in the 18th century.

R naught is not a fixed number. It's a "jumping off point" that is influenced by many factors, such as our behaviors, age, genetics, health history.

R naught is a moving target, changing with time and conditions, and is important if it remains greater than 1.

Covid-19 seems to be easily greater than 1 (IMO).    

Colorado has not stopped vaccinations.  A health organization halted at one site, after something like 0.6% of about 1700 Janssen injections having adverse (but not inconsistent with expected) reactions during a single day.   

Bullfeathers about "all vaccinations" being experimental. You know better don't spout nonsense. 

R naught is a made up number as you've just proven. The world lost well over $10 trillion in GDP (much higher when you discount for the cooked books) and more people have died from suicide than the real victims of the disease. Virtually no one died without some other medical issue. Comorbidities primarily around overweight, elderly and diabetes sufferers. But yeah, according to the TDS morons, that's Trump's fault. Meanwhile the death ticker has magically disappeared under Xiden. 

Good lord, what is it like to be so ignorant? @surrept33 and you take the cake. Expertise in one (narrow) area doesn't grant you expertise in any other, that's Dunning Kruger effect. Sadly, when "experts" like Fauci are so abysmally wrong, so often, it only makes sense to want to take a crack at it yourself, so why not make up an R naught number?