Fukushima

[frankfurter + 562]

Japan intends this week to dump into the Pacific many millions of gallons of waste water from the Fukushima disaster. The water contains a number of ultra radioactive elements, such as Iodine with a radioactive life of 15 million years. One molecule of any radio- element is sufficent to contaminate the gills of fish, which then radio- the entire fish, which then radio- the entire marine food chain. Not satisfied with murdering over 30 million people in SE Asia during WW2, Japan intends now to radio- many 100 millions more via the food chain. This dumping has received the concurrence of the USA, as Japan is a key ally for the imperial hegemon. The ocean currents will carry the radio- waste firstly to Alaska, then down the entire North America west coast, then to the equator where it will divide betwen north and south, thus to circle the globe. We trust Americans will enjoy eating their radio- seafood and swimming at their radio- beaches.

[PTakacs + 59]

14 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Japan intends this week to dump into the Pacific many millions of gallons of waste water from the Fukushima disaster. The water contains a number of ultra radioactive elements, such as Iodine with a radioactive life of 15 million years. One molecule of any radio- element is sufficent to contaminate the gills of fish, which then radio- the entire fish, which then radio- the entire marine food chain. Not satisfied with murdering over 30 million people in SE Asia during WW2, Japan intends now to radio- many 100 millions more via the food chain. This dumping has received the concurrence of the USA, as Japan is a key ally for the imperial hegemon. The ocean currents will carry the radio- waste firstly to Alaska, then down the entire North America west coast, then to the equator where it will divide betwen north and south, thus to circle the globe. We trust Americans will enjoy eating their radio- seafood and swimming at their radio- beaches.

This is a sad. The nuclear plant was not sufficiently designed to begin with (and they knew the earthquake/tsunami risk before the tsunami, being in Japan). Now this. Remember the nuclear waste from the plant was detected in CA a few weeks after the tsunami, and we didn't even complain. It is upsetting that we provided consent (if true) this time for an intentional dump that most likely will wash up ashore to our left coast again. 

I am actually very pro nuclear power, but having a plant right next to the ocean in a zone with strong earthquakes and tsunamis is just not right, unless one designs it well. 

But frankfurter, take the politics out of it. This is simply about designing nuclear plants (or hydro plants) that can withstand 1,000-year events (which the 2004 tsunami was). It's good for the mankind, regardless of national boundaries. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by PTakacs

[frankfurter + 562]

@ PTakacs.  The murcan invasion of Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia, etc, have cost the world many millions of lives and US taxpayers unaccountable amounts of money, many $trillions. And, this continues by the hour. Israel receives hundreds of millions freely from US taxpayers. The reactors were designed and built by US engineers, who received govt grants. NOTHING is given by the US to help Japan avert what is soon to be the world's greatest disaster. Murcans hold themselves to be the exceptional nation, the world leader, the force for good... well, let's see them prove this for once, just once.  BTW, nuclear IS political: nuclear research, nuclear power, nuclear weapons, all receive govt funds approved by Congress.

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

How else are we going to make Godzilla? 

[-trance + 114]

23 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Japan intends this week to dump into the Pacific many millions of gallons of waste water from the Fukushima disaster. The water contains a number of ultra radioactive elements, such as Iodine with a radioactive life of 15 million years. One molecule of any radio- element is sufficent to contaminate the gills of fish, which then radio- the entire fish, which then radio- the entire marine food chain. Not satisfied with murdering over 30 million people in SE Asia during WW2, Japan intends now to radio- many 100 millions more via the food chain. This dumping has received the concurrence of the USA, as Japan is a key ally for the imperial hegemon. The ocean currents will carry the radio- waste firstly to Alaska, then down the entire North America west coast, then to the equator where it will divide betwen north and south, thus to circle the globe. We trust Americans will enjoy eating their radio- seafood and swimming at their radio- beaches.

Dilution is the solution to pollution, the oceans are vast.

The USA dumped so much radioactive waste into the world during bomb testing and actual attacks on Japan that you should give them a break on suffering a natural disaster and releasing some aged waste.

[LiamP + 168]

Would be interesting to read the data about the actual quantities of material being released here and what impact that will actual have. I'm guessing negligible to the latter, or it wouldn't be being allowed. Might have a look into it. Certainly much of the OP is complete nonsense though - one molecule of radioactive material doing significant damage, or any at all? No, just no!

[turbguy + 1,543]

Seems to me  that exposure to natural radiation (enhanced with some high altitude fights with cosmic ray induced particle showers) has the probability of accumulating more celluar damage than this discharge.

Just wait until space flight becomes more common. 

Excuse me while I adjust my lead-infused underwear...

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

10 hours ago, turbguy said:

Seems to me  that exposure to natural radiation (enhanced with some high altitude fights with cosmic ray induced particle showers) has the probability of accumulating more celluar damage than this discharge.

Just wait until space flight becomes more common. 

Excuse me while I adjust my lead-infused underwear...

Grand Junction, Colorado has the highest radiation count in the country. All natural, all the time. 

[PTakacs + 59]

49 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Grand Junction, Colorado has the highest radiation count in the country. All natural, all the time. 

It's not the same kind of radiation as half-life radiation. In any event, the nuclear plant was ill-designed to handle 1000-year events, which is the real scientific lesson we should have learned. 

[surrept33 + 609]

23 hours ago, frankfurter said:

@ PTakacs.  The murcan invasion of Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia, etc, have cost the world many millions of lives and US taxpayers unaccountable amounts of money, many $trillions. And, this continues by the hour. Israel receives hundreds of millions freely from US taxpayers. The reactors were designed and built by US engineers, who received govt grants. NOTHING is given by the US to help Japan avert what is soon to be the world's greatest disaster. Murcans hold themselves to be the exceptional nation, the world leader, the force for good... well, let's see them prove this for once, just once.  BTW, nuclear IS political: nuclear research, nuclear power, nuclear weapons, all receive govt funds approved by Congress.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tomodachi

[frankfurter + 562]

26 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tomodachi

Please, do read the article, and do note wiki is hardly a reliable source of information. The US 'help' was limited to a clean up of the debris from the tsunami, and no US person went closer than 80km to the reactors, and this 'help' was given in 2011 only. Thus, no 'help' since 2011, and no help with the nuclear disaster.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

9 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Please, do read the article, and do note wiki is hardly a reliable source of information. The US 'help' was limited to a clean up of the debris from the tsunami, and no US person went closer than 80km to the reactors, and this 'help' was given in 2011 only. Thus, no 'help' since 2011, and no help with the nuclear disaster.

Good to see you back posting again Franky...Since the big E left the building there has been a Cosmic Void. Carry on you are quite entertaining...

[surrept33 + 609]

56 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Please, do read the article, and do note wiki is hardly a reliable source of information. The US 'help' was limited to a clean up of the debris from the tsunami, and no US person went closer than 80km to the reactors, and this 'help' was given in 2011 only. Thus, no 'help' since 2011, and no help with the nuclear disaster.

I know wikipedia is not reliable. You should take it (like anything you read) with a grain of salt. But at a bare minimum, it is designed to be "wisdom of the crowds":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_the_crowd#Examples

maybe more so than traditional encyclopedias: https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/microsoft-encarta-dies-after-long-battle-with-wikipedia/ or even http://h.bkzx.cn/search?query=中国历史

Anyway, the Hitachi-GE partnership seems to have been hard at work in their role decomminishing the plant:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-55707520110319

What can the US or US military do? They don't have technical knowledge to help in this case. They did help with the humanitarian disaster, second only to Taiwan. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by surrept33

[frankfurter + 562]

45 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Good to see you back posting again Franky...Since the big E left the building there has been a Cosmic Void. Carry on you are quite entertaining...

Greetings. I understand sarcasm, for some, is a form of humour. However, I see nothing humourous in dumping radionuclides into the Pacific.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

Greetings. I understand sarcasm, for some, is a form of humour. However, I see nothing humourous in dumping radionuclides into the Pacific.

Odd i did not elude to dumping as being humorous, i do find the US being  responsible quite humorous however. Yet at the same time i do believe the US may well have to put its big foot down on some world events...Rather extraordinary commentary yet the world lives in extraordinary times.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[frankfurter + 562]

Seems the protests by many have had some limited effect. The propaganda from Japan today is the intention for a slow release of over 1 million tonnes of radio- waters. 1 tonne = 1000 litres, so we are talking over 1 billion litres of radio- water. Japan claims the 'main' radionuclide is Tritium. But. what else is in the water?  Japan will not say, nor will Japan allow any independent inspection teams from any other country, not even the USA ally. Japan claims 'most' nuclides have been removed via filtration. But this filtration is limited to one-time only, and the radio- waters require a second filtration at the least, which is not planned. Thus the radio- waters for release will contain an unknown amount of ultra radioactive particles, some having a radio- life of up to 15 million years. Even if all such horrendous elements could be filtered, the remaining Tritium cannot and has a radio- life of 60 years. Japan is trying to sugar coat all this, by stating Tritium poses no risks to marine life, which is an outright lie. This is a disaster that will keep on giving.

Edited April 13, 2021 by frankfurter

[turbguy + 1,543]

11 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Seems the protests by many have had some limited effect. The propaganda from Japan today is the intention for a slow release of over 1 million tonnes of radio- waters. 1 tonne = 1000 litres, so we are talking over 1 billion litres of radio- water. Japan claims the 'main' radionuclide is Tritium. But. what else is in the water?  Japan will not say, nor will Japan allow any independent inspection teams from any other country, not even the USA ally. Japan claims 'most' nuclides have been removed via filtration. But this filtration is limited to one-time only, and the radio- waters require a second filtration at the least, which is not planned. Thus the radio- waters for release will contain an unknown amount of ultra radioactive particles, some having a radio- life of up to 15 million years. Even if all such horrendous elements could be filtered, the remaining Tritium cannot and has a radio- life of 60 years. Japan is trying to sugar coat all this, by stating Tritium poses no risks to marine life, which is an outright lie. This is a disaster that will keep on giving.

Don't the Japanese consume a considerable part of their diet as sea life?  Strange that they would want to potentially impact a primary food source.

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

4 hours ago, surrept33 said:

What can the US or US military do? They don't have technical knowledge to help in this case. They did help with the humanitarian disaster, second only to Taiwan. 

The point is the US is responsible and at the root of all the worlds catastrophes everywhere at all times. Japan of course has no agency whatsoever.

That radioactive ocean water off California harmed how many people and animals? I can't seem to find anything on it, must be millions dead and a coverup!

Please ignore all the plastic ocean waste, catastrophic over-fishing (that might just kill all of us), massive radioactive pollution being spread by unregulated rare earth production..... on and on..... that happens where?

Nothing to see folks, keep moving and looking over there!

[Bob D + 562]

9 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Seems the protests by many have had some limited effect. The propaganda from Japan today is the intention for a slow release of over 1 million tonnes of radio- waters. 1 tonne = 1000 litres, so we are talking over 1 billion litres of radio- water. Japan claims the 'main' radionuclide is Tritium. But. what else is in the water?  Japan will not say, nor will Japan allow any independent inspection teams from any other country, not even the USA ally. Japan claims 'most' nuclides have been removed via filtration. But this filtration is limited to one-time only, and the radio- waters require a second filtration at the least, which is not planned. Thus the radio- waters for release will contain an unknown amount of ultra radioactive particles, some having a radio- life of up to 15 million years. Even if all such horrendous elements could be filtered, the remaining Tritium cannot and has a radio- life of 60 years. Japan is trying to sugar coat all this, by stating Tritium poses no risks to marine life, which is an outright lie. This is a disaster that will keep on giving.

Eyes Wide Open giggled at the notion the US responsibility.  Your response is the USA ally isn't allowed to inspect.  That's a far cry from the US having responsibility Frank.  I sense an honest concern over dumping radioactive waste into our oceans.  I can't imagine a single person on this site who would not share your concern.  But is it the fault of the USA?  Everything can't always be the fault of the USA can it Frank?  

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

14 hours ago, PTakacs said:

It's not the same kind of radiation as half-life radiation. In any event, the nuclear plant was ill-designed to handle 1000-year events, which is the real scientific lesson we should have learned. 

Radiation is when alpha, beta and gamma particles radiate away from the substance, changing it into something else. Half life has nothing to do with it, but there's a lot of ignorance on the subject. Look at the following chart. Not only is it less radioactive as time goes on, but there's less of it also. Transmutation occurs, uranium changes into lead as the most classic case. 

[PTakacs + 59]

2 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Radiation is when alpha, beta and gamma particles radiate away from the substance, changing it into something else. Half life has nothing to do with it, but there's a lot of ignorance on the subject. Look at the following chart. Not only is it less radioactive as time goes on, but there's less of it also. Transmutation occurs, uranium changes into lead as the most classic case. 

You missed my point. The radiation at high altitude is not the same as radiation from half-life decay, unless you look at the definition of radiation from a 30k-foot high-level (so to speak). 

[PTakacs + 59]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-12/japan-to-dump-treated-radioactive-fukushima-water-into-ocean

Taiwan, South Korea, and China are on the same page here. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

49 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

You missed my point. The radiation at high altitude is not the same as radiation from half-life decay, unless you look at the definition of radiation from a 30k-foot high-level (so to speak). 

You kind of lost me here. Do you mean high altitude because Grand Junction is in the Rockies? The background radiation there is from the copius amount of uranium ore in the area, not from sunlight. I believe I've mentioned before that my father worked for the AEC under This guy and when I was maybe 6 years old I sat on his knee when he was at our house, where he liked to come because we had a grand piano he used to play. Since my dad worked on the nuclear testing program I picked up a thing or two about radiation. Before we went to underground testing do you know how many we blew up? The Soviets? Chinese? French? British? We had Geiger counters at the house, that was my world as a child. 

[PTakacs + 59]

Since people were discussing getting radiation from being in planes, I assumed you offered an example of a high-altitude location in the US subject to high solar (or cosmic) radiation. My mistake. 

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 4/11/2021 at 12:50 PM, PTakacs said:

This is a sad. The nuclear plant was not sufficiently designed to begin with (and they knew the earthquake/tsunami risk before the tsunami, being in Japan). Now this. Remember the nuclear waste from the plant was detected in CA a few weeks after the tsunami, and we didn't even complain. It is upsetting that we provided consent (if true) this time for an intentional dump that most likely will wash up ashore to our left coast again. 

I am actually very pro nuclear power, but having a plant right next to the ocean in a zone with strong earthquakes and tsunamis is just not right, unless one designs it well. 

But frankfurter, take the politics out of it. This is simply about designing nuclear plants (or hydro plants) that can withstand 1,000-year events (which the 2004 tsunami was). It's good for the mankind, regardless of national boundaries. 

"Detectable" levels of radiation are nothing like "dangerous" levels of radiation. @frankfurter is just doing his job as a wumaodang rattling cages and generally throwing shite at the walls to see if anything sticks. 

Vancouver British Columbia has been dumping their raw sewage into the ocean for hundreds of years, since they were just a burgh. They simply count on the high ocean currents to dilute the problem away. I'm 100% confident, California could detect that sewage if they looked for it.