notsonice + 1,211 DM July 8 (edited) On 7/3/2024 at 9:16 PM, Ecocharger said: Demand for oil is hot and getting hotter. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Standard-Chartered-Oil-Rally-Will-Extend-Well-Beyond-90-Per-Barrel.html "Oil is off to a strong start of Q3 with Brent rallying past $86 per barrel. According to commodity analysts at Standard Chartered, the Brent rally is sustainable well past $90/bbl. Standard Chartered: global oil markets will record a deficit in Q3 that will spill over into Q4." looks like 2024 is turning out to be a year where oil consumption is heading downhill expect the price to fall fast in the next 30 days........... enjoy the read China is reducing their Oil buying once again Fortune The world's largest oil importer flashes a warning about demand and crude prices The number of supertankers headed for China dropped to the lowest in almost two years, adding to recent concerns about demand in the largest... . 1 day ago Edited July 8 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, notsonice said: looks like 2024 is turning out to be a year where oil consumption is heading downhill expect the price to fall fast in the next 30 days........... enjoy the read China is reducing their Oil buying once again Fortune The world's largest oil importer flashes a warning about demand and crude prices The number of supertankers headed for China dropped to the lowest in almost two years, adding to recent concerns about demand in the largest... . 1 day ago I guess you never studied economics. When an economy slows down, demand for construction materials and oil declines. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Chinas-Economic-Recovery-Stumbles-as-Industrial-Output-Disappoints.html "...steel production between Jan-May 2024 decreased by 1.4% year-on-year. " China is not the world and oil demand looks fine elsewhere. Edited July 8 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 8 4 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Do you think that ruling will change the rest of the world? Hurts, don't it? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 8 4 hours ago, TailingsPond said: "Gutting Federal Environmental Protections" Only fools who don't care about their families well-being would be happy about gutting of environmental protections. Do you understand that you live in the environment? More pollution for you, your kids, and grand kids! Yay! Your obsession with particulates is very odd given the rapid decline in those particulate numbers. In fact, it is probably the rapid decline in particulates which has caused the recent global warming. No one has a better explanation. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,211 DM July 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: I guess you never studied economics. When an economy slows down, demand for construction materials and oil declines. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Chinas-Economic-Recovery-Stumbles-as-Industrial-Output-Disappoints.html "...steel production between Jan-May 2024 decreased by 1.4% year-on-year. " China is not the world and oil demand looks fine elsewhere. and yet you are the one who posted Oil demand is Hot and getting Hotter just a few days ago When an economy slows down???? China's economy is expanding at a 5 percent clip this year. Their steel production is up ...Global Steel production is not decreasing Uptick in Global Steel Production June 24, 2024 Chinese steel producers reported a significant rise in output in the latest summary, pushing worldwide production to 793.2 million metric tons YTD, and even with the 2023 global rate. ha ha ha overall global oil demand is flat ....all you have is the deadcat bounce off the pandemic Peak Oil already happened are you backtracking on your own BS on global oil demand????? you posted over and over that demand is increasing and from your dimwitted forecasters that you rely upon The forecasts this year ..... Highlights. Global oil demand is set to rise by 1.1 mb/d in 2024, 140 kb/d less than projected in last month's Report as weak deliveries, notably in Europe, shifted first-quarter OECD demand into contraction.May 15, 2024 this increase was all based on China and India ....reality their combined consumption this year actually has decreased this leaves to the reality that Oil demand is not increasing in 2024....... EV sales in China are booming........ 50 percent of the new vehicle market now and heading to 60 percent by year end the property market in China fell apart well over a year ago and yet the China economy is expanding at a healthy rate Guess you believe the Garbage OPEC puts out along with the IEA (IEA has always had crappy predictions) Sure looks like Oil is set for a fall this year and will continue its fall for the next 30 years Pesky EVs .......they have ended the increases in oil demand out of China ...Forever Edited July 8 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 8 6 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You tell me what future government policy will be, and I will give you a firmer date. Go ahead, I am listening! Why you already made claims with the available data at the time. I made no claims, you did, can't put this on me bud. Funny. Try harder. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 8 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Your obsession with particulates is very odd given the rapid decline in those particulate numbers. In fact, it is probably the rapid decline in particulates which has caused the recent global warming. Rapid decline doesn't matter if the pollution is still there. PM2.5 is the best metric as it is the most toxic pollutant at this time. Ground level ozone, carbon monoxide, etc. are measured but PM2.5 appears to be the best metric to monitor detrimental health effects. Ground level PM 2.5 is not anti-global warming; it is poison. High altitude sulphur aerosols might help. Ecocharger thinks if you switch from two packs of cigs a day to a half pack a day everything will be okay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,211 DM July 8 5 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Rapid decline doesn't matter if the pollution is still there. PM2.5 is the best metric as it is the most toxic pollutant at this time. Ground level ozone, carbon monoxide, etc. are measured but PM2.5 appears to be the best metric to monitor detrimental health effects. Ground level PM 2.5 is not anti-global warming; it is poison. High altitude sulphur aerosols might help. Ecocharger thinks if you switch from two packs of cigs a day to a half pack a day everything will be okay. I think Ecochump is okay with PM 2.5 .........he has protection Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 8 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Read the data, the reduction in mortality results is due to the reduction in indoor solid fuels , not the reduction in PM2.5. LOL the indoor solid fuels makes the PM2.5 that does the harm. Do you think they ingest the solid fuels directly? Edited July 8 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 8 2 minutes ago, notsonice said: I think Ecochump is okay with PM 2.5 .........he has protection I doubt he dons PPE. Toxic pollution is not a problem to human health according to him so long as it is trending down. For example, if 0R0 went to jail for his conspiracy and got raped 3 times per week at first and then that went down to 1 rape per month (a 92% reduction) that would be okay by Ecocharger. "Essentially zero rape" he would claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 8 (edited) On 7/1/2024 at 2:34 PM, Ecocharger said: Here is another study showing that reduction in PM may help to reduce mortality and morbidity results, at least in the US. https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP507 "Between 1980 and 2010, population-weighted PM2.5 exposures fell by about half, and the estimated number of excess deaths declined by about a third. The States of California, Virginia, New Jersey, and Georgia had some of the largest estimated reductions in PM2.5−attributable deaths. Relative to a counterfactual population with exposures held constant at 1980 levels, we estimated that people born in 2050 would experience an ∼1−y increase in life expectancy at birth, and that there would be a cumulative gain of 4.4 million life years among adults ≥30y of age. Conclusions: Our estimates suggest that declines in PM2.5 exposures between 1980 and 2010 have benefitted public health. https://doi.org/10.1289/EHP507" Try to stay consistent. "Fine particles are of particular interest to health scientists and policy makers because of evidence from controlled human exposure, toxicological, and epidemiological studies that acute PM2.5 exposure (over hours or days) is associated with adverse health outcomes, including aggravated asthma, hospital and emergency department visits, and premature death (Brook et al. 2010; U.S. EPA 2009; WHO 2013). " Edited July 8 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 8 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Your obsession with particulates is very odd given the rapid decline in those particulate numbers. *cough* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,211 DM July 8 slowly but surely the Grid gets updated Detroit Free Press New transmission lines could make way renewable energy use in Michigan This year will be decisive for the buildout of transformative energy infrastructure in Michigan. Most Michiganders may be unaware,... . 4 days ago MLive.com Could a power line connecting Michigan and Wisconsin below Lake Michigan be a clean energy solution? 'What we're trying to do is ... create sort of a renewable superhighway.' . 12 hours ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 9 The value of second-hand EVs has recently plummeted making EVs a poor investment choice for Green advocates. There is limited value in a second-hand EV. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Early-Adopters-Pay-the-Price-as-EV-Truck-Values-Tumble.html "Prices for used electric trucks like the GMC Hummer EV, Ford F-150 Lightning, and Rivian R1T have fallen sharply since their initial peak. Early adopters who purchased these trucks on secondary markets at inflated prices have experienced significant financial losses." "Let's start with the GMC Hummer EV, which was heavily hyped and initially sold for a staggering $275k on the auction website in April 2022. Fast forward to today, and used Hummer EVs are now selling on the same site for around $100k, aligning near GMC's listed MSRP. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 9 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The value of second-hand EVs has recently plummeted making EVs a poor investment choice for Green advocates. Another way of looking at that is you can get a used EV for cheap, and price does not equal value. Clean air and water is free (if you can still get it where you live) but is of priceless value when you are dying a slow death from COPD and CHF or thirst. Gem grade diamonds are expensive but essentially useless for you when you are on your death bed. Buying new is rarely the best economic value. I could show you that a 1 year old ICE car is significantly depreciated compared to a new car, but why bother as you ignore all evidence. Lastly, vehicles are not investments, they are liabilities. Edited July 10 by TailingsPond 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,211 DM July 10 (edited) On 7/3/2024 at 9:16 PM, Ecocharger said: Demand for oil is hot and getting hotter. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Standard-Chartered-Oil-Rally-Will-Extend-Well-Beyond-90-Per-Barrel.html "Oil is off to a strong start of Q3 with Brent rallying past $86 per barrel. According to commodity analysts at Standard Chartered, the Brent rally is sustainable well past $90/bbl. Standard Chartered: global oil markets will record a deficit in Q3 that will spill over into Q4." the Brent rally is sustainable well past $90/bbl.?????????????? unbelievable you clung onto this pile of crap just 6 days ago how bad did Standard Chartered analysts blow this one, it was known well over 6 days ago tanker traffic was known to have fallen off a cliff Poof the rally ended on China oil tanker traffic revisiting 2020 pandemic levels.....now where was crude during the Pandemic...... and just 6 days later the Bears are in Charge .........China has rolled over and EVs have taken over the new vehicle market Standard Chartered sold their clients on booming demand ....suckers are born everyday reality Brent is getting hammered as the tanker traffic to China has falling off a cliff Brent was unable to hold at the key support level of $84.50 (last summers low point) and the next test is $82 ( where the market found bottoms 3 times in the past year) Good luck being long as the refinery ramp up for the summer season is over and now refiners are looking at the fall season which is usually a crapshoot Could China Deliver a Bearish Shock to Oil Markets? Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com https://oilprice.com › Energy › Crude Oil 6 hours ago — Demand forecasts appear to assume that China will keep using more and more crude, giving the country an outsized role in price trends. Bloomberg ... Edited July 10 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,211 DM July 10 (edited) and the Oil Lovers are throwing up a white flag Could China Deliver a Bearish Shock to Oil Markets? Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com https://oilprice.com › Energy › Crude Oil 6 hours ago — Demand forecasts appear to assume that China will keep using more and more crude, giving the country an outsized role in price trends. Bloomberg .. NEWS Rigzone Number of China-Bound Oil Tankers Hits Two-Year Low 1 day ago Number of China-Bound Oil Tankers Hits Two-Year Low by Bloomberg | Bill Lehane | Monday, July 08, 2024 | 2:30 AM EST The number of supertankers headed for China dropped to the lowest in almost two years, adding to recent concerns about demand in the largest oil importer during the second half of the year. Only 86 of the tankers are indicating China as their next destination in the coming three months, shrinking by five from last week. That is the lowest weekly tally since August 2022 in data compiled by Bloomberg. Edited July 10 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 10 Meanwhile, oil refineries are struggling with extreme weather / high temperatures. Funny. https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/record-us-summer-heat-hurricanes-could-roil-fuel-prices-oil-refiners-sweat-2024-07-08/ "Most refineries are designed to operate between 32 and 95 degrees Fahrenheit. Triple-digit temperatures could lead to equipment malfunctions and reduction in refining capacity." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 10 (edited) 8 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Another way of looking at that is you can get a used EV for cheap, and price does not equal value. Clean air and water is free (if you can still get it where you live) but is of priceless value when you are dying a slow death from COPD and CHF or thirst. Gem grade diamonds are expensive but essentially useless for you when you are on your death bed. Buying new is rarely the best economic value. I could show you that a 1 year old ICE car is significantly depreciated compared to a new car, but why bother as you ignore all evidence. Lastly, vehicles are not investments, they are liabilities. You are desperate for an out on this...the truth is that EVs are tanking and cratering in the second-hand markets, and fast. No one wants those clunkers after first use. EVs wear out their welcome faster than used sitting Presidents. Edited July 10 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 10 (edited) The renewable energy sector is suffering from a lack of investment capital, which will mean that fossil fuels energy will still be king going forward. The markets are showing zero respect for renewables. I will loan my handkerchief to the weeping eyes of the renewable crowd. Sorry, fellas. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Energy-Transition-Companies-Are-Suffering-From-Low-Valuations.html "New equity raised by climate technology companies last year fell to $33 billion from $68 billion in 2022, BloombergNEF data showed, as cited by the FT. " "...on the stock market in New York, ReNew Energy has seen its shares drop by more than 30% since its listing in August three years ago, highlighting the trend. Over the past 12 months, climate tech companies’ stocks have shed a collective 28%, according to data from the S&P Global Clean Energy Index." Edited July 10 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,211 DM July 10 4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The renewable energy sector is suffering from a lack of investment capital, which will mean that fossil fuels energy will still be king going forward. The markets are showing zero respect for renewables. I will loan my handkerchief to the weeping eyes of the renewable crowd. Sorry, fellas. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Energy-Transition-Companies-Are-Suffering-From-Low-Valuations.html "New equity raised by climate technology companies last year fell to $33 billion from $68 billion in 2022, BloombergNEF data showed, as cited by the FT. " "...on the stock market in New York, ReNew Energy has seen its shares drop by more than 30% since its listing in August three years ago, highlighting the trend. Over the past 12 months, climate tech companies’ stocks have shed a collective 28%, according to data from the S&P Global Clean Energy Index." you are a real slow one https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2024/02/09/dumping-oil-and-gas-stocks-improves-investment-returns-new-report/ Dumping Oil And Gas Stocks Improves Investment Returns Forbes https://www.forbes.com › Innovation › Sustainability Feb 9, 2024 — Fossil fuel stocks have dragged equity markets down over 10 years, offering consistently inferior performance, new analysis has revealed. Missing: best | Show results with: best 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 633 GE July 10 5 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You are desperate for an out on this... No one wants those clunkers after first use. You never answer anything, like what day should I mark down again? I need the words, and a date to "mark your words." Stop fantasizing that you are winning in some way. I don't need an "out" as I'm not making ridiculous claims like "coal is a non-polluter." Followed up with "coal pollution levels have fallen drastically." You can't even agree with yourself. Another example "indoor PM2.5 related deaths have fallen" but you follow that up with "outdoor PM2.5 is not hazardous." Funny. Do you understand how they know the resale value has dropped? It is because that is what they are selling for. If nobody wanted them the price would be zero. Simple economics bud. Heck, you even posted "used Hummer EVs are now selling on the same site for around $100k." Obviously some people want the used EV if it is still selling for $100,000. Do you think you could get $100,000 for whatever it is you drive? I bet your car is worth less than $10,000 on the open market. Try harder. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187 July 10 11 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The renewable energy sector is suffering from a lack of investment capital, which will mean that fossil fuels energy will still be king going forward. The markets are showing zero respect for renewables. I will loan my handkerchief to the weeping eyes of the renewable crowd. Sorry, fellas. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Energy-Transition-Companies-Are-Suffering-From-Low-Valuations.html "New equity raised by climate technology companies last year fell to $33 billion from $68 billion in 2022, BloombergNEF data showed, as cited by the FT. " "...on the stock market in New York, ReNew Energy has seen its shares drop by more than 30% since its listing in August three years ago, highlighting the trend. Over the past 12 months, climate tech companies’ stocks have shed a collective 28%, according to data from the S&P Global Clean Energy Index." Lets see, because these "companies" ONLY way to make a so called "profit", assuming they even do that, is through government subsidies and skipping the line to the front with guaranteed pay(electricity generation for instance). None of them can stand on their own. Here is one thing NOT paid for by government subsidy: Battery Anode material via silicon doped lithium. This could make batteries actually viable as a transportation method, but that costs a horrendous amount of money. We have been able to do so going on 20+ years now, but no one can figure out how to mass manufacture it cost effectively. Using Graphite or .... is just a non starter, for something based in reality for near equivalent performance to ICE. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 10 11 hours ago, notsonice said: you are a real slow one https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrvetter/2024/02/09/dumping-oil-and-gas-stocks-improves-investment-returns-new-report/ Dumping Oil And Gas Stocks Improves Investment Returns Forbes https://www.forbes.com › Innovation › Sustainability Feb 9, 2024 — Fossil fuel stocks have dragged equity markets down over 10 years, offering consistently inferior performance, new analysis has revealed. Missing: best | Show results with: best Forget ten years, look at what is happening right now, and stop burying your head in the sand like an ostrich. "New equity raised by climate technology companies last year fell to $33 billion from $68 billion in 2022, BloombergNEF data showed, as cited by the FT. " "...on the stock market in New York, ReNew Energy has seen its shares drop by more than 30% since its listing in August three years ago, highlighting the trend. Over the past 12 months, climate tech companies’ stocks have shed a collective 28%, according to data from the S&P Global Clean Energy Index." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,423 DL July 10 5 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You never answer anything, like what day should I mark down again? I need the words, and a date to "mark your words." Stop fantasizing that you are winning in some way. I don't need an "out" as I'm not making ridiculous claims like "coal is a non-polluter." Followed up with "coal pollution levels have fallen drastically." You can't even agree with yourself. Another example "indoor PM2.5 related deaths have fallen" but you follow that up with "outdoor PM2.5 is not hazardous." Funny. Do you understand how they know the resale value has dropped? It is because that is what they are selling for. If nobody wanted them the price would be zero. Simple economics bud. Heck, you even posted "used Hummer EVs are now selling on the same site for around $100k." Obviously some people want the used EV if it is still selling for $100,000. Do you think you could get $100,000 for whatever it is you drive? I bet your car is worth less than $10,000 on the open market. Try harder. EV dealers lose thousands of dollars on each and every EV sale, they are stuck with growing inventories on the lot. The buyers have lost confidence in EVs which is why they are experiencing plummeting second hand values. Disaster everywhere for EVs. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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