GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Just now, Jay McKinsey said:

I think you need to visit your optometrist. The CNG map shows a fraction of the stations and oh yeah, no one drives a CNG car in the US.

I have seen a lot of EV charging stations in very remote areas such as Yellowstone N.P. There might have been one car using a charger out of ten spots. I also saw one at a river float business. That is a good thing, but I have honestly seen very few vehicles actually charging anywhere. We have one, at a Toyota dealer, in a metro area of about 100,000

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Just now, Jay McKinsey said:

I did show you the map.

There was no local services. You must know of far better maps like Tesla has. I have not looked for them. There might even be one that shows how many are vacant. I am interested in finding out the minutiae. That is a good sales pitch for you. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Here you go https://www.tesla.com/trips

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 minute ago, ronwagn said:

I have seen a lot of EV charging stations in very remote areas such as Yellowstone N.P. There might have been one car using a charger out of ten spots. I also saw one at a river float business. That is a good thing, but I have honestly seen very few vehicles actually charging anywhere. We have one, at a Toyota dealer, in a metro area of about 100,000

So you are reporting plenty of available charging stations across the country.  

You live in Springfield, Il? Tesla Supercharger info:

There are three other major charging networks that I bet all have chargers in Springfield. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

35 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

So you are reporting plenty of available charging stations across the country.  

You live in Springfield, Il? Tesla Supercharger info:

There are three other major charging networks that I bet all have chargers in Springfield. 

I live in Decatur, IL about 40 miles to the east. Springfield is much larger and is the state capitol. I do see a few hybrids in my town. I actually think that is a good way to go for a lot of people, unless electricity prices skyrocket here. Charging overnight is no problem for homeowners. I love the idea of regenerative braking and the engine turning off at long stop signs etc. The second is not a problem in central Illinois though. Now if they could figure out a way to use waste heat. 

Do any of the hybrids recharge the small battery automatically while using the engine?

Edited October 27, 2021 by ronwagn
spelling

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

4 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

 

Do any of the hybrids recharge the small battery automatically while using the engine?

A couple. That is a category of Plugin Hybrid called Range Extenders.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

11 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

A couple. That is a category of Plugin Hybrid called Range Extenders.

https://www.wheelscounty.com/hybrid-vs-range-extender-which-is-better/

The last choice covered makes the most sense to me until there is a far better infrastructure built up. I actually have thought this was a natural solution for many years, I just didn't keep up with the technology. 

The biggest question for all vehicles may be where the energy is going to come from and what it will cost. This is especially true if government tries to make all the decisions IMHO. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

20 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

https://www.wheelscounty.com/hybrid-vs-range-extender-which-is-better/

The last choice covered makes the most sense to me until there is a far better infrastructure built up. I actually have thought this was a natural solution for many years, I just didn't keep up with the technology. 

The biggest question for all vehicles may be where the energy is going to come from and what it will cost. This is especially true if government tries to make all the decisions IMHO. 

So far range extenders have been a big failure. The Volt is discontinued, the BMW is almost discontinued and the new Mazda seems DOA. But i hope it isn't.

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

"It ain't hard to store enough to last the "other 12 hours"? 

Yeah? Why hasn't it been done on a large enough scale yet then? 

There is enough natural gas, oil and coal for centuries of use. People who think there isn't are simply retarded. 

Ahhh...

Because there's this installed base of stuff that is still dependent on FF.

It ain't hard, just currently being installed.  Give it some time.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by turbguy

[ronwagn + 6,290]

15 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

So far range extenders have been a big failure. The Volt is discontinued, the BMW is almost discontinued and the new Mazda seems DOA. But i hope it isn't.

https://www.orovel.net/insights/mazda-wankel-engine-range-extender-hybrid Funny, the Wankel engine came to my mind as I started searching. I too hope it is coming.

Newer https://topelectricsuv.com/news/mazda/mx-30-range-extender-rotary-engine/

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by ronwagn
reference

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://topelectricsuv.com/news/tesla/tesla-model-2-design-details/ Tesla 2 will not be the name and I doubt any will sell for $25,000

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

20 hours ago, Henry Hewitt said:

As 'lies' go, the best and the dullest is that we can burn up capital forever (by which I mean coal, oil & gas and even uranium) and leave nothing for our grandchildren or their grandchildren.  Fossil fuels are finite and fighting over them will lead to the last war.  Renewables are infinite in supply which means they are income.  Living off income is prudent; burning up capital is reckless, selfish and in this case suicidal.  But who cares, eh?  I got mine F You. Apres moi le deluge.  Have they no decency? Have they no shame? Rhetorical questions to be sure for the answer is not in doubt. Paul was right -- 1 Timothy 6:10 -- He didn't say money was evil, he said the love of money (silver-love to be precise) was evil.  See what it did for Judas?

Let me explain something to you -- PV, made from silicon, is infinitely scalable and virtually free.  The fuel source hasn't missed a day in four billion years.  What is it about this you don't understand?  It is only a matter of time.  See Smil's chart of how long it took even coal, oil, gas and nuclear power to get to 20 quads.  Resistance is feudal.  Solar and wind, the Air Apparent, are already too cheap to meter in places.  More to follow.  Ironic isn't it that that mantra was trotted out in the '50s for nuclear.  Half right: it was fusion not fission and it was celestial not terrestrial.  You gonna tell us how great Hydrogen is next?  You're right -- did I mention the local hydrogen fusion reactor hasn't missed a day in four billion years.  Bet on it.

Yes renewables and even terrestrial fusion may be the future but the energy transition is going to be a bumpy ride as we are already finding out. What you dont say is anything about economies and the cost of renewables and the infrastructure they require. This will affect most people's standard of living and potentially in third world countries mean they remain third world for a lot longer which means ultimately people are consigned to poverty and potentially death because of the green dream. Is that what you want or do you want FF like gas to play a key part in the energy transition keeping the majority in a standard of living that is acceptable?

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes renewables and even terrestrial fusion may be the future but the energy transition is going to be a bumpy ride as we are already finding out. What you dont say is anything about economies and the cost of renewables and the infrastructure they require. This will affect most people's standard of living and potentially in third world countries mean they remain third world for a lot longer which means ultimately people are consigned to poverty and potentially death because of the green dream. Is that what you want or do you want FF like gas to play a key part in the energy transition keeping the majority in a standard of living that is acceptable?

The standard of living for most people in America and Europe will plunge as well, if the Green revolution actually happens.

I am not expecting the Green revolution to happen.

[Boat + 1,324]

8 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The standard of living for most people in America and Europe will plunge as well, if the Green revolution actually happens.

I am not expecting the Green revolution to happen.

What you don’t seem to grasp is the green revolution is happening before your eyes. But unlike your narrative it is happening  as tech improves and prices drop. Both solar and wind for the grid just became cheaper than coal and nuclear a couple years ago. And that’s just where there is good wind, sunshine and in many cases existing transmission lines. But have no fear because storage for renewables  finally is becoming cheap enough to allow further expansion. We’ll periodically go over the numbers together. We wouldn’t want you to miss a thing. 
These discussions for some of us started a decade ago. The trend lines were showing potential. So a decade later some look brilliant. Others have problems seeing the obvious. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

7 minutes ago, Boat said:

Both solar and wind for the grid just became cheaper than coal and nuclear a couple years ago

Yes agreed they have, but please enlighten me on where you get your power when the sun doesnt shine or the wind stops blowing.

Oh and please dont tell me battery storage as that is currently years and years away if ever.

I think if you have been keeping up there is currently a massive scramble for all FF/nuclear to fill the large hole left by the lack of wind power in many countries.

Try getting woke Boat.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Rob Plant

[Boat + 1,324]

13 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes agreed they have, but please enlighten me on where you get your power when the sun doesnt shine or the wind stops blowing.

Oh and please dont tell me battery storage as that is currently years and years away if ever.

I think if you have been keeping up there is currently a massive scramble for all FF/nuclear to fill the large hole left by the lack of wind power in many countries.

Try getting woke Boat.

I’ll talk about Texas because I live there. Currently there is a small but rapidly expanding solar. The low hanging fruit is the massive spike in consumption for air conditioning. This electricity is supplied by nat gas peaker plants. Soon that consumption will be supplied by solar and batteries. If you look at Californias duck curve consumption chart they have excess electricity during the day due to the amount of solar installed. Here comes the opportunity for batteries you discount. In Calif the new peak hours are a couple in the morning and 4-5 late afternoon, early evening. Just recently Musk made batteries cheap enough with the tech to cover those peaks to allow replacement of even more peaker nat gas plants. 
This scenery will happen everywhere in hot climates.

How far they can take the grid with renewables for base load is an entirely different situation. For some reason you guys fixate on that. But much can and will happen before that’s to big a worry. I also don’t know what direction grids will take. We’ve discussed ideas but we don’t sign the checks. Eh? 
 

PS The energy hole in Europe and around the world is self induced by Putin/OPEC. There is plenty of capacity for oil and gas. Politics is human driven and supply is sometimes affected by Mother Nature as well. Don’t hold renewables responsible for policy that creates shortages that weren’t planned for. Engineers know their suppliers and the effects of Mother Nature. It’s politicians that get burned by pushing a system to far. Happy to woke you.

[Boat + 1,324]

Let me add nat gas prices would still be under $3.00 if the US didn’t start shipping to foreign countries. So if your a US consumer that price pain is self inflicted. Like Australia, they have huge exports but citizens pay a high price. The red deep state I call it. PS that ain’t Biden. Lol Corporate or oligarchy power at play. Not the 50% of US citizens making under $30,000.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

Mean while i believe this GREEN TUSAMI needs to get it legs rather soon. Soo many batteries so little time...what's a Girl To Do.....

GM reports 40% drop in third-quarter profits, but expects strong year-end results

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2021/10/27/gm-third-quarter-income-earnings/8554899002/

 

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Boat said:

Let me add nat gas prices would still be under $3.00 if the US didn’t start shipping to foreign countries. So if your a US consumer that price pain is self inflicted. Like Australia, they have huge exports but citizens pay a high price. The red deep state I call it. PS that ain’t Biden. Lol Corporate or oligarchy power at play. Not the 50% of US citizens making under $30,000.

That 50% who voted Biden & Co. are the ones getting shafted by Green energy policy, they are the ones who rely on internal combustion engines to move their second-hand vehicles. Trouble will happen if they are betrayed by their political masters. Watch for that to happen very soon.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

OPEC is not going to help Biden & Co. escape from this self-created Green energy crisis.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/opec-comfortable-with-rising-price-trend-kemp-2021-10-26/

"Producers have revealed a preference for risking prices rising even further, rather than falling back, implying they are comfortable with a rising price trend, which is helping guide the market higher. OPEC+ and its forerunners have historically opted for output policies that maximise short-term revenues, except during periodic volume wars, so the preference for higher prices is not surprising. Producers would rather risk over-tightening the market than allowing prices to fall back ― repeating arguments and decisions seen during previous periods of rapidly rising prices in 2007/08, 2010/11 and 2017/18. In this instance, producers will continue to limit output and enjoy higher revenues, blaming higher prices on the pandemic, uncertain economic outlook, and investment decisions related to the transition to a future energy system."

Edited October 27, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

3 hours ago, Boat said:

I’ll talk about Texas because I live there. Currently there is a small but rapidly expanding solar. The low hanging fruit is the massive spike in consumption for air conditioning. This electricity is supplied by nat gas peaker plants. Soon that consumption will be supplied by solar and batteries. If you look at Californias duck curve consumption chart they have excess electricity during the day due to the amount of solar installed. Here comes the opportunity for batteries you discount. In Calif the new peak hours are a couple in the morning and 4-5 late afternoon, early evening. Just recently Musk made batteries cheap enough with the tech to cover those peaks to allow replacement of even more peaker nat gas plants. 
This scenery will happen everywhere in hot climates.

How far they can take the grid with renewables for base load is an entirely different situation. For some reason you guys fixate on that. But much can and will happen before that’s to big a worry. I also don’t know what direction grids will take. We’ve discussed ideas but we don’t sign the checks. Eh? 
 

PS The energy hole in Europe and around the world is self induced by Putin/OPEC. There is plenty of capacity for oil and gas. Politics is human driven and supply is sometimes affected by Mother Nature as well. Don’t hold renewables responsible for policy that creates shortages that weren’t planned for. Engineers know their suppliers and the effects of Mother Nature. It’s politicians that get burned by pushing a system to far. Happy to woke you.

The costs for solar are not decreasing, but facing a cost crunch going forward. Solar is facing trouble.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Major-Cost-Increase-Threatens-Solar-Power-In-2022.html

"The surging cost of manufacturing materials and shipping could threaten 50 gigawatts (GW) – a staggering 56% – of the 90 GW of global utility PV developments planned for 2022, a Rystad Energy analysis shows. Commodity price inflation and supply chain bottlenecks could lead to the postponement or even cancelation of some of these projects, impacting demand and consumer pricing for solar-generated power. Driven by core component price inflation, manufacturing costs for PV modules have surged from below $0.20 per watt peak (Wp) in 2020 to between $0.26 and $0.28 per Wp in the second half of 2021 – a near 50% increase in a year. A significant driver of this surge is a more than 300% hike in the cost of polysilicon, a core component in PV manufacturing. In addition, other raw materials – silver, copper, aluminum and glass – have also climbed steadily since January 2020, increasing the pressure on module prices. "The utility solar industry is facing one of its toughest challenges just days ahead of COP26. The current bottlenecks are not expected to be relieved within the next 12 months, meaning developers and offtakers will have to decide whether to reduce their margins, delay projects or increase offtake prices to get projects to financial close," says David Dixon, senior renewables analyst at Rystad Energy."

Edited October 27, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

OPEC is not going to help Biden & Co. escape from this self-created Green energy crisis.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/opec-comfortable-with-rising-price-trend-kemp-2021-10-26/

"Producers have revealed a preference for risking prices rising even further, rather than falling back, implying they are comfortable with a rising price trend, which is helping guide the market higher. OPEC+ and its forerunners have historically opted for output policies that maximise short-term revenues, except during periodic volume wars, so the preference for higher prices is not surprising. Producers would rather risk over-tightening the market than allowing prices to fall back ― repeating arguments and decisions seen during previous periods of rapidly rising prices in 2007/08, 2010/11 and 2017/18. In this instance, producers will continue to limit output and enjoy higher revenues, blaming higher prices on the pandemic, uncertain economic outlook, and investment decisions related to the transition to a future energy system."

There are times one just needs to call a spade a spade. It should be quite apparent the Biden admin calling for help is what they now call a false flag. The price of gasoline is now approaching 4/5 dollars a gallon. History has shown that when that occurs the demand for EV's/Hybrid's jumps dramatically. I find it strange for the entire automotive industry about to compete head on with a limited high end market....that would be the luxury market which does include PU's and SUV's. It will be most interesting to see what happens to GM, they are offsetting/cost averaging EV cost's with high profit PU's and SUV's...GM has put themselves in a very very bad spot.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

There are times one just needs to call a spade a spade. It should be quite apparent the Biden admin calling for help is what they now call a false flag. The price of gasoline is now approaching 4/5 dollars a gallon. History has shown that when that occurs the demand for EV's/Hybrid's jumps dramatically. I find it strange for the entire automotive industry about to compete head on with a limited high end market....that would be the luxury market which does include PU's and SUV's. It will be most interesting to see what happens to GM, they are offsetting/cost averaging EV cost's with high profit PU's and SUV's...GM has put themselves in a very very bad spot.

They are betting that people will not sacrifice their SUVs, that demand for those is not very elastic with respect to price. Most people in our area drive SUVs, don't see many sedans.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The standard of living for most people in America and Europe will plunge as well, if the Green revolution actually happens.

I am not expecting the Green revolution to happen.

I think it will happen to some extent but far more gradually than the proponents think. It seems that wind, solar, thermal, wave power, etc. all will require many more decades than the supporters think. Any leading nation that decides to abandon fossil fuels quickly will risk becoming a poorer and following nation behind those that take a slow but steady approach toward green goals. A few very small nations may succeed because thy have little industry and less travel. 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Just now, ronwagn said:

I think it will happen to some extent but far more gradually than the proponents think. It seems that wind, solar, thermal, wave power, etc. all will require many more decades than the supporters think. Any leading nation that decides to abandon fossil fuels quickly will risk becoming a poorer and following nation behind those that take a slow but steady approach toward green goals. A few very small nations may succeed because thy have little industry and less travel. 

We are already seeing rapid cost increases in renewable energy production. That will accelerate as renewable generation increases, and put a cap on that sector.