Ecocharger + 1,463 DL Friday at 06:48 PM (edited) 49 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Edit that Tesla up to $318.13. WTI down more to $67.13. Ecocharger should come tell me how down is good and up is bad. You really have no logical comeback - but you will try. "But, but sales down 5%." Meanwhile billions more are made from investor confidence (Tesla) and billions lost from lack of confidence (oil). You should learn to think and read, "TSLA [Tesla] shares fell on Nov. 14 amid reports the president-elect's transition team plans to discontinue the $7,500 EV consumer tax credit. TSLA stock dropped 5.8% to 311.18 during market trade Thursday after Reuters reported Trump's transition team wants to do away [with] the Inflation Reduction Act, IRA, EV tax credit. Chief Executive Elon Musk has already endorsed the idea of cutting the tax credit, echoing the belief that Tesla can thrive without it." Edited Friday at 06:51 PM by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Friday at 07:10 PM (edited) 24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: You should learn to think and read, TSLA stock dropped 5.8% to 311.18 during market trade Thursday after Reuters reported Trump's transition team wants to do away [with] the Inflation Reduction Act, IRA, EV tax credit. You need to watch actual market prices. Elon Musk wants the EV tax credit removed so he can crush his opposition. Tesla can afford to sell at a loss until they control the EV market. People with a clue continue to invest, Telsa is already up to $318.83. Notice that is above the $311 you just quoted. WTI down to $66.97 Edited Friday at 07:13 PM by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Friday at 07:17 PM Now we watch the morons claim falling oil prices is good for the industry and how billions in profits for Tesla means they are failing. Come on guys - give logic a chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,463 DL Friday at 09:30 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Now we watch the morons claim falling oil prices is good for the industry and how billions in profits for Tesla means they are failing. Come on guys - give logic a chance. Learn to think, dude. EVs have exhausted their potential market space. Musk is only into Tesla for 13% ownership. He can see what is happening. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Musk-Supports-Trumps-Plan-to-Axe-EV-Tax-Credits.html "President-elect Trump's transition team is reportedly planning to eliminate the $7,500 federal tax credit for electric vehicles. Tesla, the largest EV maker in the US, supports ending the subsidy, while other automakers strongly oppose the move. The potential repeal of the tax credit has sparked concerns about the future of the EV market and Tesla's competitive advantage." https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/trumps-transition-team-aims-kill-biden-ev-tax-credit-2024-11-14/ "Trump transition team plans to end EV tax credit Tesla representatives supported the proposal to end the subsidy-sources Trump's team led by oil executive Harold Hamm targets some Biden clean-energy policies Republicans plan to use reconciliation to pass tax reform without Democrats" "Ford, which expects to record a $5 billion loss on its EV and software operations this year, has previously relied on EV tax credits to boost demand from price-conscious consumers. Yet even with the credits, demand for Ford's F-150 Lightning electric pickup has faltered, leading Ford to idle the truck's production through the year-end." Edited Friday at 09:43 PM by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Friday at 10:54 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Learn to think, dude. EVs have exhausted their potential market space. Musk is only into Tesla for 13% ownership. He can see what is happening. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Musk-Supports-Trumps-Plan-to-Axe-EV-Tax-Credits.html "President-elect Trump's transition team is reportedly planning to eliminate the $7,500 federal Stop embarrassing yourself. Musk / Tesla want the ending of the credit so they can crush competition. 13% of a trillion $ company is still a lot. Meanwhile in financial news Tesla is up to $320.72 and WTI is down to $67.02. You ignore this portion of that article of course: "Here it is again: "Musk's strategy to win the EV price war: Build the largest EV business with taxpayer dollars, popularize EVs, allow other startups and OEMs to enter the market, and then support politicians who want to end EV subsidies, crushing the competition and leaving Tesla reigning supreme."" Edited Friday at 11:01 PM by TailingsPond 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,242 er Friday at 11:21 PM (edited) 27 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Meanwhile in financial news Tesla is up to $320.72 and WTI is down to $67.02. You somehow think this affects you? Oil down is good for us consumers, and as for Tesla shares, unless you're buying a Tesla or investing in the company who gives a crap? EV's might get crushed but ICE is still supreme!!!! Edited Friday at 11:22 PM by Old-Ruffneck 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,463 DL Friday at 11:57 PM 1 hour ago, TailingsPond said: Stop embarrassing yourself. Musk / Tesla want the ending of the credit so they can crush competition. 13% of a trillion $ company is still a lot. Meanwhile in financial news Tesla is up to $320.72 and WTI is down to $67.02. You ignore this portion of that article of course: "Here it is again: "Musk's strategy to win the EV price war: Build the largest EV business with taxpayer dollars, popularize EVs, allow other startups and OEMs to enter the market, and then support politicians who want to end EV subsidies, crushing the competition and leaving Tesla reigning supreme."" Musk will have trouble selling any EVs with the removal of that huge tax credit. That probably explains why he reduced his equity share in Tesla to a mere 13%. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,242 er Saturday at 12:16 AM (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Musk will have trouble selling any EVs with the removal of that huge tax credit. That probably explains why he reduced his equity share in Tesla to a mere 13%. Most Tesla cars are welll overpriced and is status product at the moment. They cost more in electricity to go same mileage as a Toyota Corolla that gets 35 mpg. Now lets talk insurance. Guaranteed the Tesla is probably about double. If the battery system is at all affected in a wreck the car is totaled. They haven't figured out weight is much more than same size auto, and tires cost more. So in the scheme of things, ICE still is better value. Edited Saturday at 12:17 AM by Old-Ruffneck 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,463 DL Saturday at 03:12 AM (edited) 4 hours ago, TailingsPond said: 13% of a trillion $ company is still a lot. Meanwhile in financial news Tesla is up to $320.72 and WTI is down to $67.02. A lot? Judging from Musk's sale of stock, his remaining 13% stake in Tesla might be worth about $50 billion, but certainly not trillions.Your math is way off. "Musk currently has a nearly 13% stake in Tesla. Prior to selling TSLA shares to purchase Twitter, now X, for $44 billion in late 2022, Musk owned around 22% of Tesla." Much of the weakness in oil prices is attributable to the run-up in the strength of the American dollar since Trump won the recent election. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investing/2024/11/11/dollar-rises-to-yearly-high-as-trumps-white-house-win-keeps-powering-gains/ "The dollar rose Monday, touching its highest level in a year as the US currency added to advances fueled by Donald Trump’s win in the presidential race." "The greenback is advancing after six straight weekly gains, as data points to solid US economic growth. Meanwhile, weaker economic expansion elsewhere in the world is pushing central banks to lower borrowing costs, weighing on local currencies. " https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/oil-trims-losses-tight-near-term-supply-2024-11-13/#:~:text=A stronger greenback makes dollar,currencies%2C which can reduce demand. "Oil prices rebounded slightly on Wednesday on short-covering a day after they fell near a two-week low on OPEC's reduced demand forecast, but gains were limited as the dollar hit a seven-month high." "A stronger greenback makes dollar-denominated oil more expensive for holders of other currencies, which can reduce demand. U.S. crude stocks fell by 777,000 barrels last week, market sources said, citing American Petroleum Institute figures on Wednesday." So even when demand is robust for oil, prices may fall with the strengthening of the U.S. dollar. Edited Saturday at 03:20 AM by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 Saturday at 06:02 AM 10 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You need to watch actual market prices. Elon Musk wants the EV tax credit removed so he can crush his opposition. Tesla can afford to sell at a loss until they control the EV market. People with a clue continue to invest, Telsa is already up to $318.83. Notice that is above the $311 you just quoted. WTI down to $66.97 No one can afford to run a company at a loss unless it is a dish washer for certain type of money... Therefore, Tesla is actually selling " Tesla made in China" at the moment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Saturday at 06:40 AM (edited) 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: A lot? Judging from Musk's sale of stock, his remaining 13% stake in Tesla might be worth about $50 billion, but certainly not trillions.Your math is way off. I said 13% of a trillion $ company. You can Google or ChatGPT and find out how much Musk is worth. Edited Saturday at 06:50 AM by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Saturday at 06:48 AM 37 minutes ago, specinho said: No one can afford to run a company at a loss unless it is a dish washer for certain type of money... Therefore, Tesla is actually selling " Tesla made in China" at the moment. You need to look up venture capitalism. Large projects - like building a mine - take a huge amount of money and the project won't be profitable for many years. People invest their money because they have confidence that the mine will find metals and long-term the mine will be very profitable. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 Saturday at 06:50 AM (edited) On 11/14/2024 at 9:19 PM, TailingsPond said: They made billions. You refuse to address all the money they are making! Do banks need to sell cars to get rich? Making money has a lot less to do with selling products than you think. 5% less sales? Wow, nobody cares about that when you are making loads of money!!! +86% in last 6 months, unreal gains. Very happy investors. You guys should work selling used cars not predicting the economy at a financial institution or large corporation. %5 less sales matters to the guy on the car lot, not to the big boys with billions of bucks. Once you have a lot of money you don't actually have to do anything to stay rich. Money works for you. Banks don't need to sell cars, but yes, they do need to sell products to make money. For examples, a) banks need to sell shares purchased or equity owned ( e.g. over priced houses that loan borrowers can no longer afford to pay) to cash in b) banks need to sell customers investment plans to get money in - before selling with success, or dividend from owning shares received, banks might have to pay interest to customers from their own pockets. When a bank gives very low to none interest but declares it is doing well investing, run away quickly. On 11/15/2024 at 12:44 PM, TailingsPond said: Earnings might be down, company profits are way up - there is a difference, you should understand that. You really are more suited to selling cars on the lot where monthly sales numbers matter, not a CFO who understands how corporate profits work. Put in your 1,2,3 month Tesla stock predictions Mr economist! Try this: a boy sold 10 candies with beautiful wrappers for $2. The cost of purchasing candies is $1. Profit = $2 - $1 = $1 If only 5 candies sold, earning is $1. Cost of purchase is $0.5. Profit = $1 - $ 0.5 = $ 0.5 Clear? Talking about top executives like ceo,cfo understand how corporate profit works, reminds me of the youth advisor (besides Elon) to Trump on efficiency. Interesting info from wikipedia: 1. He runs a company for more than a decade. The company never make any profit during his tenure. 2. He was empowered to purchase a pharmaceutical company that was testing a drug for Alzheimer's. This company failed 4 times on clinical trial prior to the sale. When this youth took over, he ordered the largest clinical trial and proclaimed the company would be "having the highest ROI ever made by pharmaceutical company" ...Clinical trial failed. How many percent died? Not disclosed. His comment? "I'm not a scientist but an executive, entrepreneur." He was removed from the company after that. ( He was a biology graduate who joint Yale Law crowd later but had internship at investment banks, and a fellow of Soros. Vance was one of his investors) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivek_Ramaswamy 3. He also proposed to put a gun in every family in ______ (forgot the place) to end crime. Ruthless, for money. Do you still believe they know better? They are probably no longer humane in most of their dealings. Being at the top is the coldest place to be. One might never know who would betray you when the back is turned. Often, top leaders would mistreat proven trustworthy persons; trust proven shrewd characters to please the crowd or certain people. Yet, they still wonder often, who could have been conspired to ruin the country or such....It is by their own choice and deemed intelligence, is it not? WIth so much wealth and power, they still choose to be a people pleaser. Their lives, although easy, might have been psychologically intense in every day dealings. What a shitty way to live... Edited Saturday at 12:12 PM by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Saturday at 06:57 AM 4 minutes ago, specinho said: Banks don't need to sell cars, but yes, they do need to sell products to make money. You need to look up the fractional reserve banking system. Banks don't make money like a lemonade stand - they create money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Saturday at 07:05 AM 10 minutes ago, specinho said: Try this: a boy sold 10 candies with beautiful wrappers for $2. The cost of purchasing candies is $1. Profit = $2 - $1 = $1 If only 5 candies sold, earning is $1. Cost of purchase is $0.5. Profit = $1 - $ 0.5 = $ 0.5 Clear? Try harder. If the boy buys ten candles for $10 (10x1) then sells them for $20 (10x2) he got $10 profit (20-10). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 Saturday at 07:41 AM 30 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: You need to look up the fractional reserve banking system. Banks don't make money like a lemonade stand - they create money. Took an online course offered by IMF, if not mistaken, on financial statements or something. It's horrendous to know the reserve has reduced from initial 60 - 70 % , to 30%, and eventually to 10%. The lecturer mentioned " This way, 90% could be loaned out..." 'o' '-' Imagine if little or no one pays back, one withdrawal from the rich would close modern banks in no time... It's better they have their feet on the ground, say, sell lemonade to get income. Instead of using dishonest greedy trick to crush socio-econ any time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 Saturday at 07:44 AM 38 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Try harder. If the boy buys ten candles for $10 (10x1) then sells them for $20 (10x2) he got $10 profit (20-10). Good. Conclusion: earning and profit are in direct relation. Increase earning, profit increases. Decrease earning, profit decreases. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Saturday at 02:29 PM 6 hours ago, specinho said: earning and profit are in direct relation. Increase earning, profit increases. Decrease earning, profit decreases. Alternatively boy convinces venture capitalist that he can control the candle industry entirely with a million bucks. He uses the million bucks to either buy out the other candle sellers directly or just starts selling candles at $0.25 (a loss) until all the competitors go broke. Once he has cornered the market he raises the candle price to $2.25 and sells all the candles until he is a very rich old man. The old candle makers son then inherits the entire candle industry and brags about his business acumen even though he personally has none. Do not confuse how the world "should work" with the the way the world actually works. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 877 GE Saturday at 02:39 PM (edited) 7 hours ago, specinho said: It's horrendous to know the reserve has reduced from initial 60 - 70 % , to 30%, and eventually to 10%. The lecturer mentioned " This way, 90% could be loaned out..." 'o' '-' Imagine if little or no one pays back, one withdrawal from the rich would close modern banks in no time... It's better they have their feet on the ground, say, sell lemonade to get income. Instead of using dishonest greedy trick to crush socio-econ any time. That is not really a big risk. What is the super rich guy going to do with that big withdrawal? The person almost certainly deposits it into another bank / financial institution which just creates more money. Even if the person spends all the money the stores then deposit the money into - you guessed it - a bank which creates more money. This is how money is created and what drives inflation. You are right that the system is inherently unstable. It depends on constant growth. They charge interest on debts so it is it impossible for everyone to pay off their debts without money creation. Additionally pretty much anytime money changes hands there is a form of taxation. Be it income tax, sales tax, etc. so the government takes a bit. Edited Saturday at 03:07 PM by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 1 hour ago On 11/16/2024 at 10:29 PM, TailingsPond said: Alternatively boy convinces venture capitalist that he can control the candle industry entirely with a million bucks. He uses the million bucks to either buy out the other candle sellers directly or just starts selling candles at $0.25 (a loss) until all the competitors go broke. Once he has cornered the market he raises the candle price to $2.25 and sells all the candles until he is a very rich old man. The old candle makers son then inherits the entire candle industry and brags about his business acumen even though he personally has none. Do not confuse how the world "should work" with the the way the world actually works. Thank you for the example. I'm thinking of a relevant event i.e. chain supermarket or hypermarket vs traditional small businesses in the neighbourhood. Due to volume that they need to purchase for their stores, chain supermarket/ hypermarket usually can get good bargain at prices. This lower costs incurred and hence selling prices. However, things are not all rosy with big capital. 1. Operational costs are much higher: storage facilities; cost of land for building hypermarkets or rental incurred; manpower; water and bill electricity etc. - much wastage could happen if there is sluggish sale and if they do not know how to keep perishable goods properly. - in order to get the cheapest land and property, some owners would choose to compromise the location. It is somewhere inconvenient where no bird want to fly there on purpose to pee. Bad location, business affected. - labour costs on idling staff or overstaff, bill of aircon etc might be rather high during day to day operation. 2. Compared to neighbourhood stores, if they own the property, rental is free, they can offer things at cheaper prices. - It's convenient for daily fresh replenishment e.g. vege, bread, etc. They could pick things up any time. - They would not mind to pay few cents extra for convenient. If they rent the property, the cost might be rather high. Huge turn over of shops is common. For example, every 3 - 6 months, there would be something closed and something opened. Until they know how to project before they begin, this cycle of wasting money, wasting things would be repeated. 3. Better alternatives - people will not consider only one brand, one option forever. There certainly will be time for better alternatives at similar or cheaper price. - since hypermarket can not sustain itself at many places, the son would only inherit the debts and minor cash flow... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 58 minutes ago Lead acid battery for EV is possible...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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