GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Chinese Top Battery Maker Halts N. American Plans After Pelosi Visit To Taiwan

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinese-Top-Battery-Maker-Halts-N-American-Plans-After-Pelosi-Visit-To-Taiwan.html

Looks like Nancy is on the side of oil & gas after all!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

And oil demand by consumers rose thus creating an upward pressure on prices.

You have to look at finqal demand to understand the market.

I guess that is why prices are down. The EIA product supplied number is effectively final demand. 

The chart you are arguing with shows demand decreasing from the beginning of July:

The price of gasoline has fallen markedly since the beginning of July:

What is even more interesting is that US gasoline demand hasn't increased in 20 years:

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Polyphia + 83]

53 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The demand for gasoline and diesel is robust in spite of the Biden recession. The EIA reports increased gasoline demand by consumers and a decline in inventories, which is bullish for gasoline prices.

https://gasprices.aaa.com/national-average-falls-but-rebounding-gas-demand-and-crude-prices-may-change-its-course

"According to new data from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), gas demand increased from 8.52 million b/d to 9.25 million b/d last week. The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year, but it could pressure pump prices and slow price decreases if the trend holds. Additionally, total domestic gasoline stocks decreased by 3.3 million bbl to 225.1 million bbl, signaling that higher demand reduced inventory last week. "

You do realize that the numbers you have quoted above are from the same data source as the gasoline supply graphs that notsonice posted last week (that you have been railing against since)? So, please, I beg you, stop claiming that the numbers from the graph don't represent demand.

 

2022-Jul

07/01

9,413

07/08

8,062

07/15

8,521

07/22

9,245

 

Above are the numbers for the past four weeks--an average of 8.81 million b/d, which is still significantly below the demand a year ago at this time, which was about 9.45 million b/d.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

56 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Chinese Top Battery Maker Halts N. American Plans After Pelosi Visit To Taiwan

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinese-Top-Battery-Maker-Halts-N-American-Plans-After-Pelosi-Visit-To-Taiwan.html

Looks like Nancy is on the side of oil & gas after all!

To bad so sad, a bit flipped you say? China does not dictate to the US. End of line. 

To the battery issue, it is time for the Green crowd to either get there act together or find a issue they can achieve some type of success. Unicorns and fairy tales have run there course.

Imagine so called science using slave labor to achieve a desired outcome. Have these people no shame?

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

There is no sign of demand destruction.

As I pointed out above, Jay's data was a reference to inventories, not market demand by consumers. Some people are slow to understand economic data.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/US-Refiners-Havent-Seen-Fuel-Demand-Destruction.html

"U.S. refiners say there is no indication across their channels that America's fuel demand is weakening, contrary to recent data about gasoline consumption.

The weekly inventory reports from the EIA at the beginning of July pointed to faltering demand after nationwide gasoline prices hit an average of $5 a gallon in the middle of June. During earnings calls this week, however, some of the largest U.S. refiners said they hadn't seen any signs of demand destruction.   

"Through our wholesale channel, there's really no indication of any demand destruction. In June, we actually set sales records. We sold 911,000 barrels a day in the month of June, which surpassed our previous record in August of '18 where we did 904,000 barrels a day," Gary Simmons, Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer at Valero Energy, said on the conference call on Thursday.

"We read a lot about demand destruction, mobility data showing in that range of 3% to 5% demand destruction. Again, we're not seeing it in our system. We did see a bit of a lull in the first couple of weeks of July, but our seven-day averages now are back to kind of that June level, with gasoline at pre-pandemic levels and diesel continuing to trend above pre-pandemic levels," Simmons added.

Tom Nimbley, chief executive at PBF Energy, said, "We're at basically the same levels we've been for the last 90 days," commenting on demand on the company's earnings call.

The latest reporting week in EIA data showed that gasoline demand increased from 8.52 million barrels per day (bpd) to 9.25 million bpd last week, AAA said on Thursday. While the national average gasoline price has dropped since Monday to $4.255 a gallon as of Friday, the rebounding demand and the latest decline in gasoline inventories "could pressure pump prices and slow price decreases if the trend holds," AAA noted.

According to data from fuel-savings app GasBuddy, Sunday-to-Wednesday U.S. gasoline demand was up 1.04% from last week, and was the highest of any Sunday-Wednesday period so far this year, exceeding the week ahead of July 4, Patrick De Haan, head of petroleum analysis for GasBuddy, said on Thursday."

And as I and others have pointed out to you the EIA product supplied number is the metric for demand not a reference to inventories. It does take great patience to get you to understand economic data, once again, this is the definition directly from EIA :

The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates the decline in petroleum product demand by examining the changes in total product supplied, EIA’s proxy for consumption. 

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=43455

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

The demand for gasoline and diesel is robust in spite of the Biden recession. The EIA reports increased gasoline demand by consumers and a decline in inventories, which is bullish for gasoline prices.

https://gasprices.aaa.com/national-average-falls-but-rebounding-gas-demand-and-crude-prices-may-change-its-course

"According to new data from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), gas demand increased from 8.52 million b/d to 9.25 million b/d last week. The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year, but it could pressure pump prices and slow price decreases if the trend holds. Additionally, total domestic gasoline stocks decreased by 3.3 million bbl to 225.1 million bbl, signaling that higher demand reduced inventory last week. "

The demand numbers you are citing are the exact same product supplied numbers you have been claiming don't represent demand. Your quote quite definitively says "The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year," that is demand destruction.

Here is what us gasoline demand has been for the past year, currently well below last year:

Edited August 3, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

There is no sign of demand destruction.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/US-Refiners-Havent-Seen-Fuel-Demand-Destruction.html

"U.S. refiners say there is no indication across their channels that America's fuel demand is weakening, contrary to recent data about gasoline consumption.

What do you expect the refiners to tell their stakeholders?

Biased source perhaps?

Edited August 3, 2022 by TailingsPond

[Boat + 1,324]

On 8/2/2022 at 12:16 AM, Ecocharger said:

Those are not gasoline sales numbers, but stock numbers.

Demand strength in economics terms means actual sales. In this case the gasoline sales numbers exceed the supply numbers.

When that happens, prices go up.

I pointed this out many times. The US exports close to 700,000 barrels of gasoline every day. 1.250 of diesel. That, young man, is surplus. Foreigners just don’t like to look at it that way. They like the refinery capacity scare tactic and blame Biden. Woke folks know there is plenty of capacity and exported products every day. Your like Putin and Trump, a poor disinformation campaigner.

[Boat + 1,324]

48 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The demand numbers you are citing are the exact same product supplied numbers you have been claiming don't represent demand. Your quote quite definitively says "The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year," that is demand destruction.

Here is what us gasoline demand has been for the past year, currently well below last year:

Like I say, what a bunch of no chart reading experts here. It’s kinda sad there are thousands of these guys who yack false numbers. A weird world we live in. All these false narratives don’t change anything. One wonders why they would waste their time. Thanks for the chart Jay. 

[Boat + 1,324]

59 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

And as I and others have pointed out to you the EIA product supplied number is the metric for demand not a reference to inventories. It does take great patience to get you to understand economic data, once again, this is the definition directly from EIA :

The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates the decline in petroleum product demand by examining the changes in total product supplied, EIA’s proxy for consumption. 

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=43455

 

Lol

[Boat + 1,324]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

To bad so sad, a bit flipped you say? China does not dictate to the US. End of line. 

To the battery issue, it is time for the Green crowd to either get there act together or find a issue they can achieve some type of success. Unicorns and fairy tales have run there course.

Imagine so called science using slave labor to achieve a desired outcome. Have these people no shame?

 

Batteries or any product can be disrupted, just like Russian gas. Green has little to with it. The science of slave labor might be more of a Chinese thing. Russia is more into human trafficking and yachts for billionaires. Meanwhile EV’s around 6 million per year now. A few years a go there were a million period. Relax, in a decade you won’t be able to escape them. Like birds, there will be flocks of them. 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I guess that is why prices are down. The EIA product supplied number is effectively final demand. 

The chart you are arguing with shows demand decreasing from the beginning of July:

The price of gasoline has fallen markedly since the beginning of July:

What is even more interesting is that US gasoline demand hasn't increased in 20 years:

 

Read the numbers, Jay. I gave them to you again.

"According to new data from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), gas demand increased from 8.52 million b/d to 9.25 million b/d last week. The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year, but it could pressure pump prices and slow price decreases if the trend holds. Additionally, total domestic gasoline stocks decreased by 3.3 million bbl to 225.1 million bbl, signaling that higher demand reduced inventory last week. "

Read and learn.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Oil prices weaken today due to fears of the continued Biden recession and a further recession in China.

However, the high prices of natural gas is causing an increase in oil demand.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Oil-Could-Fall-to-90-If-Inflation-Persists.html

"... oil demand could find support from record-high natural gas prices, which are prompting industrial consumers to switch to oil-fired generation.

Indeed, Germany's city of Munich last week restarted oil-burning units at two power plants in a bid to reduce its gas consumption in line with the EC's plan for a 15-percent cut in gas consumption across the European Union.

As of August 1, natural gas in Europe traded at above $199 per MWh, which was lower than the peak reached in March this year, but still prohibitively expensive for many gas consumers."

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Polyphia said:

You do realize that the numbers you have quoted above are from the same data source as the gasoline supply graphs that notsonice posted last week (that you have been railing against since)? So, please, I beg you, stop claiming that the numbers from the graph don't represent demand.

 

2022-Jul

07/01

9,413

07/08

8,062

07/15

8,521

07/22

9,245

 

Above are the numbers for the past four weeks--an average of 8.81 million b/d, which is still significantly below the demand a year ago at this time, which was about 9.45 million b/d.

Read the post above, which supports my interpretation. 

"According to new data from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), gas demand increased from 8.52 million b/d to 9.25 million b/d last week. The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year, but it could pressure pump prices and slow price decreases if the trend holds. Additionally, total domestic gasoline stocks decreased by 3.3 million bbl to 225.1 million bbl, signaling that higher demand reduced inventory last week. "

Edited August 3, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Polyphia + 83]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Read the post above, which supports my interpretation. 

"According to new data from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), gas demand increased from 8.52 million b/d to 9.25 million b/d last week. The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year, but it could pressure pump prices and slow price decreases if the trend holds. Additionally, total domestic gasoline stocks decreased by 3.3 million bbl to 225.1 million bbl, signaling that higher demand reduced inventory last week. "

No, it doesn't. One week of increased demand does not make a trend. The four-week rolling averages displayed in the graphs that notsonice and Jay have posted are better metrics and show that demand is down compared to last year. Repeating your incorrect interpretation ad infinitum does not make it correct. It doesn't do that for Trump either.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

38 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Read the post above, which supports my interpretation. 

"The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year, "

Yes, read your post.

[notsonice + 1,255]

Oil demand destruction coming from every angle imaginable

here is the highlight

NHTSA's press release claims that updating the requirements for 2024 through 2026 models will decrease fuel consumption by over 200 billion gallons through 2050 versus if the old standards stayed in place, as well as cut greenhouse-gas emissions and dependence on foreign oil.

Car and Driver

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39612426/us-fuel-economy-rules-49-mpg-2026/

U.S. Now Requiring New-Vehicle Fleet to Average 49 MPG by 2026

Under NHTSA's new CAFE standards, total fuel costs are expected to fall, but new-car prices are expected to rise by about $1100 per vehicle.

By Eric Stafford

Apr 1, 2022

 

Brandon BellGetty Images

 

New vehicles sold in the U.S. must average 49 mpg fleet-wide by 2026, according to new federal fuel-economy standards announced today.

 

The Department of Transportation said the new requirements are intended to improve fuel efficiency, cut down on fuel costs, and reduce emissions.

 

People who buy new in 2029 will save about $1400 total on fuel costs over the vehicle's lifetime, but the average new-vehicle price will also rise by about $1100.

Every automaker will now need its fleet of light-duty vehicles sold in the U.S. to average 49 mpg by 2026. This new federal requirement is part of changes made to Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, which were announced today by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). (It's important to note that these mpg numbers are unadjusted figures that don't represent what individual cars can be expected to achieve. You can anticipate that 49 mpg unadjusted will yield a figure somewhere in the mid-30s on an average window sticker. For a thorough explanation of CAFE regulations and what they mean to actual fuel economy in your vehicle, see our earlier story on the subject.)

 

With better MPG comes less money spent on gas—about $1387 less over the lifetime of a vehicle bought new in the 2029 model year. However, the agency also acknowledged that requiring automakers to make vehicles more fuel-efficient will mean the cost of new vehicles will go up—by about $1087 on average, NHTSA said.

 

The new CAFE standards take effect in 2024 and will require automakers to increase fuel efficiency by 8 percent annually for the 2024 and 2025 model years. By 2026, that figure will rise to 10 percent. Compared with the 2021 model year, the new standards are also expected to improve the industry's fleet-wide average by about 10 miles per gallon for 2026 models. Right now, as Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said in remarks today, the average fuel economy of the U.S. 2021 vehicle fleet is 36 mpg, and the new standard will increase that by 33 percent by 2026.

NHTSA's press release claims that updating the requirements for 2024 through 2026 models will decrease fuel consumption by over 200 billion gallons through 2050 versus if the old standards stayed in place, as well as cut greenhouse-gas emissions and dependence on foreign oil.

Edited August 3, 2022 by notsonice

[Boat + 1,324]

15 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Chinese Top Battery Maker Halts N. American Plans After Pelosi Visit To Taiwan

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinese-Top-Battery-Maker-Halts-N-American-Plans-After-Pelosi-Visit-To-Taiwan.html

Looks like Nancy is on the side of oil & gas after all!

It was Nancy and Obama that worked with Republicans and allowed oil and gas to become part of the international market. Did they stop flaring? The one thing they went for was coal. That’s the real story instead of Republican hype. Same with the military. They get street cred for fighting military spending without ever cutting any military spending. Election hype. 

[Boat + 1,324]

12 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Read the numbers, Jay. I gave them to you again.

"According to new data from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), gas demand increased from 8.52 million b/d to 9.25 million b/d last week. The estimated rate is 80,000 b/d lower than last year, but it could pressure pump prices and slow price decreases if the trend holds. Additionally, total domestic gasoline stocks decreased by 3.3 million bbl to 225.1 million bbl, signaling that higher demand reduced inventory last week. "

Read and learn.

Trump and Biden have spent around 6 trillion trying to keep the economy afloat over the last 5-6 years. Worries over gasoline and diesel consumption seems a little premature until Covid, war/prices and funny money have time to work its way through the system. 

[specinho + 470]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:55 AM, notsonice said:

you are still babbling.......

How did you do in Thermodynamics ??? I take you have no training in advanced chemistry or thermo ??? any material sciences???? your posts are nothing but incoherent babble

suspecting those are the few words only in your vocab......... Any other things that you can say would be an improvement............on yourself...........

Confession....... 📢  📢  i never passed a thing that requires more complicated thinking than 1 + 1........  So, enlighten me please...... 

1. why do you need advanced chemistry, thermodynamics or material sciences in that simple experiment?

In case you still have no idea where it comes from............. it is from a book called < basic science >........ for secondary 1 or stage 7..... 😵

2. kindly point out where is incoherent...........

you do not mean the photo quote?

( whispering mode)...... that one was posted  for your good reference....

[notsonice + 1,255]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:11 PM, Ecocharger said:

This is all about demand for basic oil needs such as transportation, which will continue to pick up. The pandemic and the recent worries over recession will be overcome as the driving season picks up steam soon.

Military spending will also increase demand for oil.

how is your great prediction on demand working today.....

 

you stated on June 28...demand for basic oil needs such as transportation, which will continue to pick up

Today is August 4 driving season should be  peaking.....and the price of gasoline is crashing.....

wholesale gasoline market today ???? $2.766

on June 28th with your great prediction wholesale gasoline was at $3.844

how much increase do you calculate since June 28???? ok I will do the math for you, a decrease of $1.07 

What is the percentage drop in less than 40 days ??? 28 percent

all because of demand destruction

 

Any more great predictions ??????

 

enjoy your day

 

 

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

21 hours ago, notsonice said:

Oil demand destruction coming from every angle imaginable

here is the highlight

NHTSA's press release claims that updating the requirements for 2024 through 2026 models will decrease fuel consumption by over 200 billion gallons through 2050 versus if the old standards stayed in place, as well as cut greenhouse-gas emissions and dependence on foreign oil.

Car and Driver

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39612426/us-fuel-economy-rules-49-mpg-2026/

U.S. Now Requiring New-Vehicle Fleet to Average 49 MPG by 2026

Under NHTSA's new CAFE standards, total fuel costs are expected to fall, but new-car prices are expected to rise by about $1100 per vehicle.

By Eric Stafford

Apr 1, 2022

 

Brandon BellGetty Images

 

New vehicles sold in the U.S. must average 49 mpg fleet-wide by 2026, according to new federal fuel-economy standards announced today.

 

The Department of Transportation said the new requirements are intended to improve fuel efficiency, cut down on fuel costs, and reduce emissions.

 

People who buy new in 2029 will save about $1400 total on fuel costs over the vehicle's lifetime, but the average new-vehicle price will also rise by about $1100.

Every automaker will now need its fleet of light-duty vehicles sold in the U.S. to average 49 mpg by 2026. This new federal requirement is part of changes made to Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, which were announced today by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). (It's important to note that these mpg numbers are unadjusted figures that don't represent what individual cars can be expected to achieve. You can anticipate that 49 mpg unadjusted will yield a figure somewhere in the mid-30s on an average window sticker. For a thorough explanation of CAFE regulations and what they mean to actual fuel economy in your vehicle, see our earlier story on the subject.)

 

With better MPG comes less money spent on gas—about $1387 less over the lifetime of a vehicle bought new in the 2029 model year. However, the agency also acknowledged that requiring automakers to make vehicles more fuel-efficient will mean the cost of new vehicles will go up—by about $1087 on average, NHTSA said.

 

The new CAFE standards take effect in 2024 and will require automakers to increase fuel efficiency by 8 percent annually for the 2024 and 2025 model years. By 2026, that figure will rise to 10 percent. Compared with the 2021 model year, the new standards are also expected to improve the industry's fleet-wide average by about 10 miles per gallon for 2026 models. Right now, as Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said in remarks today, the average fuel economy of the U.S. 2021 vehicle fleet is 36 mpg, and the new standard will increase that by 33 percent by 2026.

NHTSA's press release claims that updating the requirements for 2024 through 2026 models will decrease fuel consumption by over 200 billion gallons through 2050 versus if the old standards stayed in place, as well as cut greenhouse-gas emissions and dependence on foreign oil.

Which means that the fossil fuel vehicles continue to be technologically advanced and attractive to lower income buyers.

That's fine.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

35 minutes ago, notsonice said:

how is your great prediction on demand working today.....

 

you stated on June 28...demand for basic oil needs such as transportation, which will continue to pick up

Today is August 4 driving season should be  peaking.....and the price of gasoline is crashing.....

wholesale gasoline market today ???? $2.766

on June 28th with your great prediction wholesale gasoline was at $3.844

how much increase do you calculate since June 28???? ok I will do the math for you, a decrease of $1.07 

What is the percentage drop in less than 40 days ??? 28 percent

all because of demand destruction

 

Any more great predictions ??????

 

enjoy your day

 

 

 

We saw 9.25 in July, that sounds good for a Biden recession number. We will see how seriously the Biden recession impacts overall consumer spending, but recessions do not last very long if monetary policy corrects the inflation problem in a short time frame.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 8/4/2022 at 2:07 AM, Boat said:

Trump and Biden have spent around 6 trillion trying to keep the economy afloat over the last 5-6 years. Worries over gasoline and diesel consumption seems a little premature until Covid, war/prices and funny money have time to work its way through the system. 

Yes, there are many factors working their way through the economy, but the main factor is the corrective monetary policy needed to squeeze the inflation out of the system, a problem due largely to overly expansive monetary policy in recent years.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

22 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

We saw 9.25 in July, that sounds good for a Biden recession number. We will see how seriously the Biden recession impacts overall consumer spending, but recessions do not last very long if monetary policy corrects the inflation problem in a short time frame.

So now you don't know the difference between natural gas and gasoline.  9.25 was natural gas, we are discussing gasoline

Edited August 4, 2022 by Jay McKinsey