GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

46 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

That is assuming that by those dates the fallacious CO2 climate models are still extant. I doubt that the CO2 theory will stand the test of time, there is already a growing body of climate science exposing the weakness of the CO2 theory.

I agree with you on CO2 however its up to governments to make the laws and those laws are being made to ban FF vehicles by 2030.

Thats why pretty much every car manufacturer is stopping FF vehicle manufacture and putting all their research into EV's. No point making FF vehicles if its against the law to buy them!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

7 hours ago, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

8.6% of all sold cars globally were PEV. The global market for electric vehicles (EVs) is growing continuously at a compounded annualised growth rate (CAGR) of 21.7 per cent. So that would mean a doubling of sales every 4 years. 

Your CAGR is on the low side. It is more in the realm of 60%. 

Electric vehicle sales were up 62% globally in the first half of 2022 compared to the first half of 2021. That includes fully electric vehicles and plugin hybrids. These plugin vehicles reached 4.3 million sales in the first half of 2022, according to global EV analysis leaders at EV-Volumes. Looking at growth in core regions, here’s what we get:

• European EV market: +9%
• US & Canadian EV market: +49% (at same time as overall auto market was down 17%)
• Chinese EV market: +113%

Globally, the share of light vehicle sales that were plugin vehicles rose to 11.3% in H1 2022, up from 6.3% in H1 2021. That 11.3% is dominated by full electrics (BEVs), which had 8.2% of the overall market. Plugin hybrids had 3.1% of the overall auto market.

[notsonice + 1,255]

13 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Breitbart tells the truth. You can't handle the truth. You want to cancel the truth tellers. 

 

Only an idiot would defend Breitbart...........Truth on Breibart News????? I bet you think Joseph Goebbels never lied....

Edited December 13, 2022 by notsonice

[notsonice + 1,255]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:06 AM, turbguy said:

Yes, this could be a step in the "right direction". 

Be aware this technique is literally the equivalent of setting off a miniature hydrogen bomb within a highly advanced chamber.

I think there's a few more steps to achieve before any usable heat can be extracted.

Particularly if you want a continuous supply of usable heat.

And, if ultimately used to "fuel" a heat engine, you throw away about 50% of that heat to a sink.

The Future.......death of coal one hydrogen atom at a time....In the meantime the death of coal one solar panel at a time......

Now why would anyone buy a new ICE Vehicle???????

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Q3 global EV sales update

Plug-in car registrations year-to-date:

• BEVs: about *4.9 million and 9.3% share
• PHEVs: about *1.9 million and 3.7% share
• Total: 6,815,282 and roughly 13% share

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

5 hours ago, notsonice said:

Now why would anyone buy a new ICE Vehicle???????

Some of us don't live where there is infrastructure for EV's.  I personally own several diesel trucks as pulling a trailers 75 miles round trip to dispose of waste makes sense. Fords Lightning EV truck won't handle a 16k pound trailer legally and it doesn't get much miles per trip. Somewhere around 90 to 120 miles pulling 10k load.  I don't foresee Heavy Duty pickup trucks going total electric for awhile. 

My wifes car is a 2020 Rav4 Hybrid AWD and gets 38mpg. Not too shabby for mid sized SUV. 

[turbguy + 1,544]

11 hours ago, notsonice said:

 

Now why would anyone buy a new ICE Vehicle???????

They are not quite "ready for prime-time" yet here in rural Wyoming. 

They are getting closer day-by-day.

Don't get me wrong...I have friends with Tesla's in town and they like them.  It's just that they can't perform to match a full-size diesel pickup quite yet.  Ground clearance is too tight for most two-tracks around here, and they can't pull a loaded horse trailer anywhere near what the pickup does.

For more heavily populated areas, with less "practical demands", EV's are probably a no-brainer for many.

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

18 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

There is no established relationship between CO2 levels and earth temperature, the models which purport to show a relationship are flawed in many ways.

It appears the the direction of causation is from earth temperature to CO2 levels, not the reverse.

"There is no established relationship between CO2 levels and earth temperature". 

Yes, there is: On the causal structure between CO2 and global temperature | Scientific Reports (nature.com)

<quote>

We use a newly developed technique that is based on the information flow concept to investigate the causal structure between the global radiative forcing and the annual global mean surface temperature anomalies (GMTA) since 1850. Our study unambiguously shows one-way causality between the total Greenhouse Gases and GMTA. Specifically, it is confirmed that the former, especially CO₂, are the main causal drivers of the recent warming.

<unquote>

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

17 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Your CAGR is on the low side. It is more in the realm of 60%. 

Electric vehicle sales were up 62% globally in the first half of 2022 compared to the first half of 2021. That includes fully electric vehicles and plugin hybrids. These plugin vehicles reached 4.3 million sales in the first half of 2022, according to global EV analysis leaders at EV-Volumes. Looking at growth in core regions, here’s what we get:

• European EV market: +9%
• US & Canadian EV market: +49% (at same time as overall auto market was down 17%)
• Chinese EV market: +113%

Globally, the share of light vehicle sales that were plugin vehicles rose to 11.3% in H1 2022, up from 6.3% in H1 2021. That 11.3% is dominated by full electrics (BEVs), which had 8.2% of the overall market. Plugin hybrids had 3.1% of the overall auto market.

I couldn't find the 2022 numbers, but yes. It is going quick, and growth is now exponential.

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

Global Coal Consumption On Track To Hit An All-Time High

By Tsvetana Paraskova - Dec 16, 2022, 3:12 AM CST

• The International Energy Agency expects coal consumption to hit an all-time high this year, breaking 8 billion tons for the first time ever.
• Soaring natural gas prices have been the key factor pushing coal demand higher, with coal consumption set to rise by 1.2% this year.
• The IEA maintains that the current energy crisis and Russia’s war in Ukraine will accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels.

Join Our Community

Global coal demand is on track to reach an all-time high this year amid the energy crisis and the resulting spike in natural gas prices, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Friday, expecting coal consumption to likely remain flat after 2022 through 2025 if energy transition is not accelerated.

Coal consumption worldwide is forecast to rise by 1.2% in 2022, exceeding 8 billion tons in a single year for the first time ever, and beating the previous coal demand record set in 2013, the IEA said in Coal 2022, its latest annual market report on the sector.   

Coal used in electricity generation, the largest consuming sector, is expected to grow by just over 2% in 2022. But coal consumption in industry is expected to drop by over 1%, on the back of falling iron and steel production amid the economic slowdown, the agency said.

The surge in natural gas prices has led this year to a significant gas-to-coal switch, especially in Europe. Both gas and coal power generation increased as the growth of wind and solar were not enough to fully offset lower hydro and nuclear power output in Europe, according to the IEA.

Based on current market trends, the agency expects coal consumption to remain flat at this year’s level through 2025 as declines in developed economies will be offset by robust demand in emerging economies in Asia.  

“This means coal will continue to be the global energy system’s largest single source of carbon dioxide emissions by far,” the IEA said.  

“The world is close to a peak in fossil fuel use, with coal set to be the first to decline, but we are not there yet,” Keisuke Sadamori, the IEA’s Director of Energy Markets and Security, said in a statement.

Fossil fuel consumption is expected to peak or plateau within this decade, accelerated by the policy and trade flow shifts following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the IEA said in a report in October. For the first time ever, a World Energy Outlook scenario from the IEA based on the current government policies and settings has the global demand for every fossil fuel showing a peak or plateau, the agency said in its World Energy Outlook 2022.

The IEA’s Sadamori commented on coal today, “Coal demand is stubborn and will likely reach an all-time high this year, pushing up global emissions. At the same time, there are many signs that today’s crisis is accelerating the deployment of renewables, energy efficiency and heat pumps – and this will moderate coal demand in the coming years.”

By Tsvetana Paraskova for Oilprice.com

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

Damn, how did notsonice get this wrong???

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:15 AM, Rob Plant said:

I agree with you on CO2 however its up to governments to make the laws and those laws are being made to ban FF vehicles by 2030.

Thats why pretty much every car manufacturer is stopping FF vehicle manufacture and putting all their research into EV's. No point making FF vehicles if its against the law to buy them!

Laws are made by government, and governments change regularly. The basic determinant of public policy is the state of climate science on this issue, which is now drifting inexorably against the CO2 theory, That will eventually become the dominant public policy position.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Coal is still King.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Global-Coal-Consumption-On-Track-To-Hit-An-All-Time-High.html

"The International Energy Agency expects coal consumption to hit an all-time high this year, breaking 8 billion tons for the first time ever.

Soaring natural gas prices have been the key factor pushing coal demand higher, with coal consumption set to rise by 1.2% this year.

The IEA maintains that the current energy crisis and Russia’s war in Ukraine will accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels."

Edited December 16, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:18 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Your CAGR is on the low side. It is more in the realm of 60%. 

Electric vehicle sales were up 62% globally in the first half of 2022 compared to the first half of 2021. That includes fully electric vehicles and plugin hybrids. These plugin vehicles reached 4.3 million sales in the first half of 2022, according to global EV analysis leaders at EV-Volumes. Looking at growth in core regions, here’s what we get:

• European EV market: +9%
• US & Canadian EV market: +49% (at same time as overall auto market was down 17%)
• Chinese EV market: +113%

Globally, the share of light vehicle sales that were plugin vehicles rose to 11.3% in H1 2022, up from 6.3% in H1 2021. That 11.3% is dominated by full electrics (BEVs), which had 8.2% of the overall market. Plugin hybrids had 3.1% of the overall auto market.

Again, these are only percentage growth figures based on low initial numbers, nothing to get excited about.

The new cold trend in climate is of more significance for future transportation policy developments.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 12/13/2022 at 2:22 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Q3 global EV sales update

Plug-in car registrations year-to-date:

• BEVs: about *4.9 million and 9.3% share
• PHEVs: about *1.9 million and 3.7% share
• Total: 6,815,282 and roughly 13% share

Sales only, not rolling stock. Less than 1% of the transportation sector is electric....again, nothing to get anyone excited.

Ho hum.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Damn, how did notsonice get this wrong???

Sorry, it looks like I double-linked this important article.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:16 AM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

I couldn't find the 2022 numbers, but yes. It is going quick, and growth is now exponential.

Growth rates from a low base, nothing to get excited about.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:12 AM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

"There is no established relationship between CO2 levels and earth temperature". 

Yes, there is: On the causal structure between CO2 and global temperature | Scientific Reports (nature.com)

<quote>

We use a newly developed technique that is based on the information flow concept to investigate the causal structure between the global radiative forcing and the annual global mean surface temperature anomalies (GMTA) since 1850. Our study unambiguously shows one-way causality between the total Greenhouse Gases and GMTA. Specifically, it is confirmed that the former, especially CO₂, are the main causal drivers of the recent warming.

<unquote>

Wrong, your article, which is now out of date and seven years old, is now inconsistent with the long term models, which show temperature as the cause of CO2 changes, the reverse of your article.

Your article takes into account only data since 1850, too short a timespan to make any conclusions. 

 Your article ignores changes in earth temperature due to reduction of atmospheric particulates since the 1990s.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

3 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

The IEA’s Sadamori commented on coal today, “Coal demand is stubborn and will likely reach an all-time high this year, pushing up global emissions. At the same time, there are many signs that today’s crisis is accelerating the deployment of renewables, energy efficiency and heat pumps – and this will moderate coal demand in the coming years.”

 

The full quote is telling - the world hates the reliance on filty coal.

Your stance is akin to saying crack cocaine is good because there are many addicts.

Do not make the logic error that usage = good. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by TailingsPond

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

Oil companies are buying up gas station real estate because they foresee the end of traditional gasoline.

Most will turn to fast-food joints with fast charging stations. 

Shell Canada snapping up gas stations in preparation for energy transition (msn.com)

"Shell is forecasting gasoline demand will decline over the long term in favour of cleaner-burning fuels and electric vehicles."

"Suncor Energy has also announced it is targeting EV charging as part of a larger plan to boost revenue from its Petro-Canada retail network, and to offset anticipated lower gasoline sales in the future."

"Suncor's best bet would be to retain and "maximize" the chain by investing in partnerships in non-fuel related businesses such as quick-serve restaurants, convenience stores and loyalty partnerships."

“We also do see just pure EV hubs in the future. I think we’ll start to see those pop up in Canada in the near future." 

 

Yep, food and electricity only at "gas stations" is coming.

The oil companies accept reality - fancy that.

Edited December 16, 2022 by TailingsPond

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

4 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

The full quote is telling - the world hates the reliance on filty coal.

Your stance is akin to saying crack cocaine is good because there are many addicts.

Do not make the logic error that usage = good. 

I didn't see the quote "filthy coal" anywhere in that article. Old plants do produce more particulates and CO2 than modern coal plants. My stance, you are assuming my stance is that coal is good. For the time being it's necessary evil, sorry. Don't compare to any FF to man mad drugs, has nothing to do with the needs globally as FF's are a necessity for even building crappy EV's, Windmills, Solar Panels etc. 

[Ron Wagner + 710]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:47 AM, notsonice said:

Only an idiot would defend Breitbart...........Truth on Breibart News????? I bet you think Joseph Goebbels never lied....

Too bad you are so misinformed. 

[Ron Wagner + 710]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:06 AM, turbguy said:

Yes, this could be a step in the "right direction". 

Be aware this technique is literally the equivalent of setting off a miniature hydrogen bomb within a highly advanced chamber.

I think there's a few more steps to achieve before any usable heat can be extracted.

Particularly if you want a continuous supply of usable heat.

And, if ultimately used to "fuel" a heat engine, you throw away about 50% of that heat to a sink.

Please explain the heat loss and why it can't be captured somehow.

[Ron Wagner + 710]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:05 AM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

8.6% of all sold cars globally were PEV. The global market for electric vehicles (EVs) is growing continuously at a compounded annualised growth rate (CAGR) of 21.7 per cent. So that would mean a doubling of sales every 4 years. 

That type of projection is based on many factors that may not be true. You should know that. The lithium and battery cost, the chip availability and cost, whether high income buyers continue to buy them, whether the middle class will choose them, charging infrastructure etc. It also depends on what nation you are talking about and their economies. China and Europe are hurting as is America and, all the rest of the world. America and Canada are different markets with different needs. 

[Ron Wagner + 710]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:20 AM, Rob Plant said:

When you factor in many countries are actually banning new FF car sales from 2030 and even hybrids from 2035 then these numbers will be huge in the 2030's compared to the current growth levels.

Rules can be made and changed. Old cars can be fixed.