TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 23 hours ago 22 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Oil production is at another all-time high as the major oil companies ramp up output to meet growing oil demand. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/US-Oil-Output-Hits-Record-High-in-August.html Still using oil price for your words? Did Julianne Geiger even study economics? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 23 hours ago (edited) 55 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The EV transition is officially OVER. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Government-May-Relax-Rules-On-EV-Targets.html Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world? 1.04T market cap. Also the CEO owns the POTUS elect. "The Tesla Model Y was the best-selling vehicle in the world in 2023, selling 1.22 million units globally" Don't kid yourself man, nothing is officially over. Also note you have said "it is over" numerous times in the past yet it continues. P.S. "Zerohedge" is not an official. Edited 22 hours ago by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM 20 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world? 1.04T market cap. Also the CEO owns the POTUS elect. "The Tesla Model Y was the best-selling vehicle in the world in 2023, selling 1.22 million units globally" Don't kid yourself man, nothing is officially over. Also note you have said "it is over" numerous times in the past yet it continues. P.S. "Zerohedge" is not an official. Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world?>>>> Tesla produced 1.85 million vehicles in 2023 which does not put Tesla in the top 12 car companies nope not even close....market cap means nothing...........would anyone buy tesla for 1 trillion dollars...............nope .....only an idiot believes Tesla is going to sell more cars next year than this year.........Tesla is at a cross roads Tesla Cyber truck????? oh boy what a flop............. all it takes is Teslas competitors to price their product which is the same as a Tesla EV at a lower price to wipe them out. Look at what is happening in China Tesla last year had 7 percent of the EV market, this year is 3 percent...... and the US market.........only so many buyers who are willing to overpay for a Tesla..... on the valuation..........you have to ask yourself what is their physical plant plus money in the bank worth today??? 1 trillion????? far from it you can buy and sell small amounts of overpriced shares all day...still at the end or the day no one will step in and pay 1 trillion for the whole of Tesla. I have worked for my share of companies that were overvalued on the stock market. Their share prices all ended up in the dumpster , as the respective execs of each company were just engaging into pumping up share values for their own benefit. Tesla Solar????.......poof.....Tesla batteries??? they do not make their own...panasonic makes them With Elons diving into politics he sure is alienating those who would ever think of buying a Tesla fast....... Do you think alot of Trumpers are going to run out and buy a Tesla today???? ha ha ha do not mix politics with a business ever.................... Tariffs are looming and my bet is China will make an example out of Tesla to its own people and Tesla in China will cease to sell any cars in China mid 2025........ you are better off at investing in Tulips than Buying Tesla shares today If you are holding Tesla shares ...........good luck 2023 [edit] Rank Group Country Sold vehicles (2023)[18] 1 Toyota Japan 10,307,395 2 Volkswagen Group Germany 9,239,575 3 Hyundai Motor Group South Korea 7,302,451 4 Stellantis Netherlands 6,392,600 5 General Motors United States 6,188,476 6 SAIC China 5,020,000 7 Ford Motor Company United States 4,413,545 8 Honda Japan 4,188,039 9 Nissan Japan 3,374,271 10 Suzuki Japan 3,225,359 11 BYD Auto China 3,024,417 12 BMW Germany 2,555,342 Edited 20 hours ago by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM 20 hours ago (edited) Rocky roads ahead for Tesla as the Chinesse are taking over the Global EV markets The Driven | Tesla slashes prices of Model 3 and Model Y to counter flagging EV sales Tesla is now offering more incentives than ever to help drive more Q4 sales of its best-selling Model 3 and Model Y EVs. . 1 day ago China's total car production in 2023 was a record 30.16 million vehicles, which included 30 million wholesale deliveries. This was an increase from 2022, when China produced 27,020,615 vehicles. China's 2023 production also included 4.91 million units exported, which was a 58% increase. over 50 percent of all cars made in China today are EVs/PHEVs The United States produced almost 10.6 million motor vehicles in 2023. Edited 20 hours ago by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 20 hours ago (edited) 19 minutes ago, notsonice said: Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world?>>>> Tesla produced 1.85 million vehicles in 2023 which does not put Tesla in the top 12 car companies market cap means nothing...........would anyone buy tesla for 1 trillion dollars............ If you read carefully the quote was "the Tesla Model Y was the best-selling vehicle" not that Tesla sold the most vehicles. Tesla does have the largest market cap (>1T) and generally companies sell for above market cap. Tesla has massive investor confidence - that is all that matters. Oh, and the CEO owns the POTUS elect. Edited 20 hours ago by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM 19 hours ago 1 minute ago, TailingsPond said: If you read carefully the quote was "the Tesla Model Y was the best-selling vehicle" not that Tesla sold the most vehicles. Tesla does have the largest market cap (>1T) and generally companies sell for above market cap. Tesla has massive investor confidence - that is all that matters. dude you posted...... Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world? stop using drugs........ Tesla is not the largest auto manufacturer in the world you think anyone will step up and pay 1 trillion for Tesla???? again stop using drugs I get it you own shares of Tesla and you are in love with Elon.....and your shares.........Basic investing strategy....do not marry your stock shares newsflash no one that owns a Tesla is in love with Elon any more except you?????????? take a time to read this article https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-falling-california-sales-are-bad-for-elon-musk-2024-10 TRANSPORTATION Why Tesla's sales are slipping in California, and what it means for Elon Musk's car company Nora Naughton Oct 30, 2024, 3:19 PM MDT 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM 19 hours ago (edited) Barron's BYD Shows China’s Car Business Isn’t Getting Easier for Anyone, Including Tesla Prices wars have many casualties, including suppliers who get squeezed by customers looking to save money. . 8 hours ago KTVU FOX 2 San Francisco Newsom's proposed EV rebate under fire, as Tesla may not qualify Governor Gavin Newsom is promising to continue the electric vehicle rebate program in California, but his new proposal could exclude Tesla... . 20 hours ago Rest of World How Tesla’s Mexico plans stalled out Progress on Tesla's Mexico gigafactory has stalled; expected completion date of the Monterrey factory has slipped from mid-2024 to 2025 or... . Jun 20, 2024 Electrek Cybertruck backlog runs out, Model S gets stuck, GM hits a sales milestone Tesla's Cybertruck is now available in Canada – and, like in the US, there's no waiting! Plus, we've got an "actually" smart summon Tesla... . 3 weeks ago Torque News MG 4 Takes Top EV Sales Spot In Australia From Tesla MG takes the top sales spot in Australia from the Model Y. Tesla is evolving to become just another car company, and other car brands, like MG, are moving into... . 3 weeks ago Edited 19 hours ago by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 19 hours ago (edited) 19 minutes ago, notsonice said: dude you posted...... Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world? Tesla is not the largest auto manufacturer in the world you think anyone will step up and pay 1 trillion for Tesla???? Oct 30, 2024, 3:19 PM MDT They have the highest selling model, and the largest valuation (1.04T). Nothing I wrote was incorrect. Tesla could use credit instruments to buy both Ford (44.4B) and GM (65.2B). Deny that Elon has a voice in the POTUS elect ear if you want. Maybe consider trying some drugs? Edited 19 hours ago by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM 19 hours ago 1 minute ago, TailingsPond said: They have the highest selling model, and the largest valuation (1.04T). Nothing I wrote was incorrect. Tesla could use credit instruments to buy both Ford (44.4B) and GM (65.2B). Deny that Elon has a voice in the POTUS elect ear if you want. you think that Elons sleeping with Trump is good for selling Teslas to Trumpers??????????????? You think Trump is a poster child for the green agenda and buying EVs?????????? ha ha ha Elon is going to change Trump?????? ha ha ha ha a voice in the elect ear?????? good grief and you think that will help sell EVs?????? to fans of Trump.....stop using drugs ha ha ha you are a fool in love with your shares in Tesla . So you think Trump is going to change course and tell his supporters that they all should buy Teslas and dump their clunlers???? ha ha ha ha OK you convince Old ruff neck that he should get rid of his F350's and buy Cybertrucks.....ha ha ha Elon really has laid a giant turd with the Cyber truck and his Tesla car models are outdated..........and overpriced and sales are heading for the dumpster No more waiting for buying a Tesla.....you buy a new one today and you get delivery on the spot....... Nothing I wrote was incorrect.??????????? again stop using drugs Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world?????? pure BS the largest valuation?? so you have sold everything you own today and have put it all into Tesla????? of course no one is singing the tune that Tesla sales are booming anymore. hang onto your shares.........you can only hope a new sucker is born today to step up and buy them overpriced and competition is coming out with better vehicles and a lower price........... Competition sucks if you own Tesla 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 19 hours ago 2 minutes ago, notsonice said: the largest valuation?? so you have sold everything you own today and have put it all into Tesla????? You are normally above this type of logical error. I am just observing the current state of the market - I don't have to sell everything and put it all into Tesla to notice reality. Do not argue against the empirical data that Tesla is the largest vehicle company by valuation. Saying "the market valuation is wrong" is not an argument against the fact that the market currently values Tesla a lot. Look at the world the way it is not the way it should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM 19 hours ago 1 minute ago, TailingsPond said: You are normally above this type of logical error. I am just observing the current state of the market - I don't have to sell everything and put it all into Tesla to notice reality. Do not argue against the empirical data that Tesla is the largest vehicle company by valuation. Saying "the market valuation is wrong" is not an argument against the fact that the market currently values Tesla a lot. Look at the world the way it is not the way it should be. dude ...do you ever go to Vegas????? smart man takes his winning off the table and runs ............... Do not argue against the empirical data that Tesla is the largest vehicle company by valuation.???????? empirical??????? fundamentals point to a lower valuation on every level Hey one should have never argued about the value of Tulips in the 17th century Tulip bubble...ha ha ha at best the real value of Tesla today is maxed out in the 160 to 200 range...enjoy the fall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 19 hours ago Just now, notsonice said: dude ...do you ever go to Vegas????? smart man takes his winning off the table and runs ............... Do not argue against the empirical data that Tesla is the largest vehicle company by valuation.???????? empirical??????? fundamentals point to a lower valuation on every level I've been to Vegas a bunch, usually in January as it is very cold up here. You wrongly assume I am heavily invested in Tesla (another logic error). I currently have almost all my cash investments in a balanced mutual fund that has performed very well (+12% YTD); not Tesla level growth (+34% YTD) but lower risk. Fundamentals don't matter as much as actual share price. Don't start sounding like the "any day now" morons who refuse to look at reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL 16 hours ago 6 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world? 1.04T market cap. Also the CEO owns the POTUS elect. "The Tesla Model Y was the best-selling vehicle in the world in 2023, selling 1.22 million units globally" Don't kid yourself man, nothing is officially over. Also note you have said "it is over" numerous times in the past yet it continues. P.S. "Zerohedge" is not an official. Take away the government props and it is done. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL 16 hours ago 3 hours ago, TailingsPond said: They have the highest selling model, and the largest valuation (1.04T). Nothing I wrote was incorrect. Tesla could use credit instruments to buy both Ford (44.4B) and GM (65.2B). Deny that Elon has a voice in the POTUS elect ear if you want. Maybe consider trying some drugs? Here is what you said, direct quote, "Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world?" I guess you got trapped by your own words, dude. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 14 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Take away the government props and it is done. Musk wants the government props to go away in order to crush the competition and gain market share. You like oilprice to think for you so here it is: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Musk-Supports-Trumps-Plan-to-Axe-EV-Tax-Credits.html "We knew the playbook in July. Here it is again: "Musk's strategy to win the EV price war: Build the largest EV business with taxpayer dollars, popularize EVs, allow other startups and OEMs to enter the market, and then support politicians who want to end EV subsidies, crushing the competition and leaving Tesla reigning supreme." By Zerohedge.com" Edited 14 hours ago by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 14 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Here is what you said, direct quote, "Do you know that Tesla is the largest auto manufacturer in the world?" I guess you got trapped by your own words, dude. They are by market cap and the best selling model globally. You still like little Ford and GM? Money talks, you would know that if you understood economics. Tesla (1.04T) Ford (44.4B) GM (65.2B) Edited 14 hours ago by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 14 hours ago (edited) Ask ChatGPT AI: "As of recent reports in 2024, Tesla is the most valuable automaker in the world by market capitalization. Tesla's market value has surged significantly in the past few years, driven by its dominance in the electric vehicle (EV) market, strong growth prospects, and its technological innovations, such as autonomous driving and energy solutions. While traditional automakers like Toyota and Volkswagen Group have historically been the largest by production volume, Tesla has outpaced them in terms of stock market value, reflecting investor confidence in the future of electric vehicles and Tesla's role in shaping that future. Tesla's valuation has fluctuated, but it has been consistently higher than that of other major automotive companies, thanks to its market leadership in EVs, its scaling production capabilities, and its expansion into areas like energy storage and solar products." Edited 14 hours ago by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 14 hours ago (edited) Aahheeeemmmnnn....... Let's give a little credit when credit is due. Tesla does influence the market to produce more EV except the models are less sustainable due to limitation of material, charging facilities etc. Nicholas Tesla invented and patented a self recharging EV back in 1930s. I did not understand but it said something like gravitational force or that sort. Self charging 3-wheel motorbikes are in the market. 3-wheel solar cars and may be 4-wheel are ready to fly. Self sustained turbine bus was tested. Lead acid battery EV was invented in the 1920s. Golf cart is an economic choice of lead acid EV for not too busy integrated town shed. People probably welcome environmentally friendly invention like these. But they do not like hasty push into EV despite flaw and damaging risk mentioned. Without the ability to project but push with force blindly will only cause more problems from tentative solution provided, is it not? Edited 14 hours ago by specinho 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 13 hours ago 7 minutes ago, specinho said: Tesla does influence the market to produce more EV except the models are less sustainable due to limitation of material, charging facilities etc. The market disagrees with you. You guys are still failing to understand the importance of investor confidence and sheer buying power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,009 GE 13 hours ago 24 minutes ago, specinho said: Lead acid battery EV was invented in the 1920s. Golf cart is an economic choice of lead acid EV for not too busy integrated town shed. People probably welcome environmentally friendly invention like these. But they do not like hasty push into EV despite flaw and damaging risk mentioned. Lead is not environmentally friendly, it is a persistent carcinogen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL 11 hours ago (edited) 3 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Musk wants the government props to go away in order to crush the competition and gain market share. You like oilprice to think for you so here it is: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Musk-Supports-Trumps-Plan-to-Axe-EV-Tax-Credits.html "We knew the playbook in July. Here it is again: "Musk's strategy to win the EV price war: Build the largest EV business with taxpayer dollars, popularize EVs, allow other startups and OEMs to enter the market, and then support politicians who want to end EV subsidies, crushing the competition and leaving Tesla reigning supreme." By Zerohedge.com" The mechanisms of unfettered markets will determine the winner regardless. That is how proper economics works. Edited 11 hours ago by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,477 DL 11 hours ago (edited) The EV industry is in serious trouble and is crying for high levels of government help.That will not happen. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Ford-CEO-Calls-on-UK-Government-for-EV-Incentives-to-Drive-Sales.html "Ford's UK Boss: The automotive industry “urgently” needs government-backed incentives to improve customer uptake of electric vehicles. Ford UK’s intervention comes just a day after Vauxhall-owner Stellantis announced it was closing its flagship UK manufacturing plant in Luton. Business Secretary Jonathan Reynolds announced at an industry dinner that the government would launch a consultation on the zero emissions vehicle mandate." Edited 22 minutes ago by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM 4 hours ago (edited) 9 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Ask ChatGPT AI: "As of recent reports in 2024, Tesla is the most valuable automaker in the world by market capitalization. Tesla's market value has surged significantly in the past few years, driven by its dominance in the electric vehicle (EV) market, strong growth prospects, and its technological innovations, such as autonomous driving and energy solutions. While traditional automakers like Toyota and Volkswagen Group have historically been the largest by production volume, Tesla has outpaced them in terms of stock market value, reflecting investor confidence in the future of electric vehicles and Tesla's role in shaping that future. Tesla's valuation has fluctuated, but it has been consistently higher than that of other major automotive companies, thanks to its market leadership in EVs, its scaling production capabilities, and its expansion into areas like energy storage and solar products." you missed the boat.......it has sailed on Tesla 10 years ago Tesla had a unique product that no one was offering IE an EV with a 300 mile range Thus a wildly overinflated valuation 5 Years ago they still owned the market.....still supports a wildly overinflated valuation and Tesla could sell EVs with a massive profit margin Today they do no have a unique product.........Everyone is making EVs now and at a lower price than Tesla....Thus the overinflated valuation is no longer warranted. Think of the Companies/nations that have a unique product Nvidia..........yes Boeing.....and Airbus........yes ....but even with that said Boeing shares suck as their product has had severe problems........ Amazon..........well yes they still dominate the market because of Amazon Prime......took Amazon years to build up the logistics of next day delivery and a low cost.....Their competitors???????? good luck US military...........any other nation out there with the same dominance/might???? Russia with Nukes otherwise good luck US Dollar............any currency out there with the same global dominance???? nope and because of this the US debt is allowed to increase without effect on the US dollar........very Unique. How is that Loonie doing these days????? Anyone holding on Canadian debt these days hoping for it to become a real global player?????? ha ha ha....... In the Oil business........no one is unique....including no nation.....Thus even Opec is unable to own the market....and Oil is priced accordingly. OPEC once owned the market...........not anymore.......Anyone jumping on the Saudi Oil Co these days Aramco stock sucks as it was overvalued recently and it is still overvalued....and it pays dividends ASML...........oh they own the EUV biz............ Microsoft...........they are still the market leader but they do not own the market.......and their valuation Peaked at 2.25 Trillion and now has dropped to 1.7 Trillion.........Still overvalued when one looks at its revenue and operating income........Tesla is in the same boat (except Mircrosoft pays a dividend ....but it is real crappy..........and because of this their share price has been cratering) and Tesla bigger problem they do not have anything in their upcoming new product line to fill the gap of offering a unique product today. And to boot Tesla does not pay a dividend................Tesla stock is now a turd pile Self Driving cars??????????? That would be Unique.......now does anyone have one on the road that you can have it drive around everywhere???????? NOPE..... and for Tesla they are not the only one trying to get one on the road with perfect software(IE no crashes ,,,,and this really matters) Problem is software is never perfect.............Self driving car tech today............so far off from being realitvely bug free............ Self driving cars.....so far off in the future ................all based on the fact that when a self driving car crashes and someone dies as a result .......the only one that will pay dearly is the one who designed/built the car........This is all Tesla has left in its bag of tricks.......Self driving cars. Yeah I get you can buy insurance.......but the carmaker is also responsible for selling a product that is not dangerous...Unless you can change Tort law Globally., good luck....Unlike today you can always blame a driver when a car crashes and the driver does not have unlimited funds to pay out. Teslas valuation is doomed. Real value of Tesla ............maybe $50 billion........markets are slow but they do catch up........Just look at where Microsoft is heading these days Enjoy the fall of Tesla..............it is in the cards....And Elon is sealing its fate.....again do not mix your politics with your business nor your stock holdings Edited 4 hours ago by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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