Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 2, 2023 1 hour ago, notsonice said: China’s ‘explosive’ oil demand growth set to moderate, says Poten Push for more electric cars and shrinking population set to contribute to reduced demand 1 May 2023 2:14 GMT UPDATED 1 May 2023 8:43 GMT By Dale Wainwright in Singapore The days of explosive growth in China’s crude oil demand look to be behind it, with future expansion expected to be moderate and cyclical, says a top US shipbroker. Last year, China’s overall oil demand declined by 417,000 barrels per day (bpd), or 2.7%, compared to 2021 due to China’s zero-Covid policy. Transportation fuels, gasoline and jet fuel suffered the largest declines as lockdowns affected people’s ability to travel. Do you bother to read your own material? "Transportation fuels, gasoline and jet fuel suffered the largest declines as lockdowns affected people’s ability to travel." That explains the temporary decline. Transportation will continue to be about 99.9% dependent on oil and gasoline, and even the wildest climate fanatics like yourself will continue to drive fossil fuel cars. Right? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 2, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Do you bother to read your own material? "Transportation fuels, gasoline and jet fuel suffered the largest declines as lockdowns affected people’s ability to travel." That explains the temporary decline. Transportation will continue to be about 99.9% dependent on oil and gasoline, and even the wildest climate fanatics like yourself will continue to drive fossil fuel cars. Right? did you miss the long term aspects ................. Push for more electric cars and shrinking population set to contribute to reduced demand Enjoy the long term demand reduction....Peak Oil already happened in 2019 are you still waiting for a dead cat bounce?????? PS Brent at $75.......now is that a sign of booming demand today??? HA HA HA HA Thanks to EV's , enjoy the transition, I am Edited May 2, 2023 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, notsonice said: did you miss the long term aspects ................. Push for more electric cars and shrinking population set to contribute to reduced demand Enjoy the long term demand reduction....Peak Oil already happened in 2019 are you still waiting for a dead cat bounce?????? PS Brent at $75.......now is that a sign of booming demand today??? HA HA HA HA Thanks to EV's , enjoy the transition, I am You still driving that dirty old fossil fuel car? You prove my point, the so-called "transition" will never come. The transition away from fossil fuels is now officially dead and gone. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/India-And-China-Look-To-Avoid-Setting-Deadline-For-Fossil-Fuels-Phase-Out.html "India will see its power generation from coal increase in the coming year as authorities plan to have coal-fired units maximize electricity production from imported coal to meet rising demand. The government of India, where coal still generates around 70% of the country’s electricity, plans to use an emergency law to have more coal-fired power generation this summer, expecting record demand, government sources told Reuters early this year. India’s coal minister said at the end of 2022 that the country has no intention of ditching coal from its energy mix any time soon. Addressing a parliamentary committee, Coal Minister Pralhad Joshi said that coal would continue to play an important role in India until at least 2040, referring to the fuel as an affordable energy source for which demand has yet to peak in India. China, for its part, is building or planning to build some 366 GW in new coal generation capacity, accounting for some 68% of global planned new coal capacity as of 2022." Edited May 2, 2023 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 2, 2023 42 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: You still driving that dirty old fossil fuel car? You prove my point, the so-called "transition" will never come. The transition away from fossil fuels is now officially dead and gone. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/India-And-China-Look-To-Avoid-Setting-Deadline-For-Fossil-Fuels-Phase-Out.html "India will see its power generation from coal increase in the coming year as authorities plan to have coal-fired units maximize electricity production from imported coal to meet rising demand. The government of India, where coal still generates around 70% of the country’s electricity, plans to use an emergency law to have more coal-fired power generation this summer, expecting record demand, government sources told Reuters early this year. India’s coal minister said at the end of 2022 that the country has no intention of ditching coal from its energy mix any time soon. Addressing a parliamentary committee, Coal Minister Pralhad Joshi said that coal would continue to play an important role in India until at least 2040, referring to the fuel as an affordable energy source for which demand has yet to peak in India. China, for its part, is building or planning to build some 366 GW in new coal generation capacity, accounting for some 68% of global planned new coal capacity as of 2022." India is now your last hope???? did you abandon Oil demand and your claim that Oil is getting bigger and bigger in China ???? China is building coal stations as backups only.......for peak power demand.....for the short term Pay attention China is building over 100 major pump storage projects right now for peak demand...to store excess renewable power for peak demand everyday Already posted previously Fossil Fuel Emmisions Globally have already peaked...it is now down hill Your Clunker should do fine for a few more years???? soon to be replaced by an EV???? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkam44 + 26 May 2, 2023 (edited) Being a former engineer for a large power company and having earned a Master of Science in Energy and the Environment, I had PV panels installed seven years ago, with my estimated payback of 15 years, . . the right thing for an eco-freak to do. Before they could be installed, we acquired a VW e-Golf electric car. The savings in gasoline alone took the solar system payback down to 3 1/2 years. So, we added a used Tesla Model S, P85, and that took the payback down to less than three years, which means we now get free power for household and transportation. But that is not all: We do not need to go to gas stations, we fuel up at home at night with cheap baseload power. During the daytime, the PV system turns our meter backwards powering the neighborhood with clean local power, which we trade for the stuff to be used that night. If we paid for transportation fuel, the VW would cost us 4 cents/mile to drive, and the Tesla would cost 5 cents/mile at California off-peak power prices. No oil changes are a real treat along with no leaks. And since it has an electric motor, it needs NO ENGINE MAINTENANCE at all. We do not go "gas up", or get tune-ups or emissions checks, have no transmission about which to worry, no complicated machined parts needing care. THAT is what will sell the EV, and the real problem is not powering them, (the power companies have been working on and praying for the EV for a generation), the problem will be dealing with an economy which has had a large portion taken out of it. Too much of our economy is dependent on the needs of the internal combustion engine, from mechanics to emissions checkers to the folk who make oil filters, and all the folk who support them. I see a rush to EVs, (go drive one, and see), and the implications of this advance as an impending wave of dislocation for this society for which we must plan now. Edited May 2, 2023 by gkam44 1 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG May 3, 2023 13 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Sure, if the economy tanks and goes into recession, every market goes down, so that is nothing new. But if the economy collapses, there will be a new occupant of the White House and the Green mania will dissipate, normalcy will prevail once again. Regardless of outcome, fossil fuels will reign, as the Biden people have already acknowledged. Rein indeed. Since 1950 for 70 years the oil market gained an average of 1.5 mbpd. Since 2019 there has been zero growth in the oil market. Eco charge says Biden people have acknowledged the rein of fossil fuels. Kinda like saying the Indians reined America until they didn’t? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 3, 2023 On 4/26/2023 at 9:22 PM, Ecocharger said: The best investment on Wall Street is, of course, oil and gas. The most promising sector going forward. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/3-Reasons-Why-Oil-Gas-Is-Goldman-Sachs-Favorite-Sector.html "Despite the renewed selling in oil and gas, Goldman Sachs remains bullish on energy. The energy sector is the cheapest of all 11 U.S. market sectors, with a current PE ratio of 6.7. Energy companies continue to report robust earnings as oil continues to trade around $80 per barrel." How many days ago were you pumping Oil as an investment?????? 7???? $80 buck Brent ?????? Did you buy in at $80 and take your own advice ?????? Did Goldman Sachs back up your losses????? $73 Brent today........ Where is the great demand????? The best investment on Wall Street is, of course, oil???????????????? Not anymore....thanks to EV's and renewables Enjoy the Transition ........... unless you love losing money in Oil 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP May 3, 2023 The North Sea Energy Transition https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2023/the-north-sea-energy-transition.html#tblciGiAhrNkoHajMKR8U3V01HZciiMfrpaPPO5SnZWzrK2yxxyDGr14oi9S0-Pu_mvqyAQ 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP May 3, 2023 Oil Price Rout Sends Ripples Across Related Industries https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Price-Rout-Sends-Ripples-Across-Related-Industries.html Oil certainly taking a beating at present even with production cuts and larger draw downs! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 May 3, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, gkam44 said: Being a former engineer for a large power company and having earned a Master of Science in Energy and the Environment, I had PV panels installed seven years ago, with my estimated payback of 15 years, . . the right thing for an eco-freak to do. Before they could be installed, we acquired a VW e-Golf electric car. The savings in gasoline alone took the solar system payback down to 3 1/2 years. So, we added a used Tesla Model S, P85, and that took the payback down to less than three years, which means we now get free power for household and transportation. But that is not all: We do not need to go to gas stations, we fuel up at home at night with cheap baseload power. During the daytime, the PV system turns our meter backwards powering the neighborhood with clean local power, which we trade for the stuff to be used that night. If we paid for transportation fuel, the VW would cost us 4 cents/mile to drive, and the Tesla would cost 5 cents/mile at California off-peak power prices. No oil changes are a real treat along with no leaks. And since it has an electric motor, it needs NO ENGINE MAINTENANCE at all. We do not go "gas up", or get tune-ups or emissions checks, have no transmission about which to worry, no complicated machined parts needing care. THAT is what will sell the EV, and the real problem is not powering them, (the power companies have been working on and praying for the EV for a generation), the problem will be dealing with an economy which has had a large portion taken out of it. Too much of our economy is dependent on the needs of the internal combustion engine, from mechanics to emissions checkers to the folk who make oil filters, and all the folk who support them. I see a rush to EVs, (go drive one, and see), and the implications of this advance as an impending wave of dislocation for this society for which we must plan now. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/19/business/electric-vehicles-carbon-footprint-batteries.html E.V.s Start With a Bigger Carbon Footprint. But That Doesn’t Last. The manufacturing and disposal of electric vehicles result in more greenhouse gases than nonelectric models, but that difference will eventually disappear altogether. Edited May 3, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 3, 2023 (edited) On 5/2/2023 at 6:45 PM, notsonice said: India is now your last hope???? did you abandon Oil demand and your claim that Oil is getting bigger and bigger in China ???? China is building coal stations as backups only.......for peak power demand.....for the short term Pay attention China is building over 100 major pump storage projects right now for peak demand...to store excess renewable power for peak demand everyday Already posted previously Fossil Fuel Emmisions Globally have already peaked...it is now down hill Your Clunker should do fine for a few more years???? soon to be replaced by an EV???? Oil demand is hot and is now causing inventories to draw down, which means that you and others who drive fossil fuel cars are still completely reliant on gasoline. Coal is also increasing in demand and production going forward. Thanks to you for proving my point, that oil and gasoline is the basis for American transportation needs. Most climate alarmists drive those old dirty fossil fuel cars...yes, that means you, buddy. I guess you had trouble reading again, try slowly reading and thinking for a change, "India’s coal minister said at the end of 2022 that the country has no intention of ditching coal from its energy mix any time soon. Addressing a parliamentary committee, Coal Minister Pralhad Joshi said that coal would continue to play an important role in India until at least 2040, referring to the fuel as an affordable energy source for which demand has yet to peak in India. China, for its part, is building or planning to build some 366 GW in new coal generation capacity, accounting for some 68% of global planned new coal capacity as of 2022." Edited May 3, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 3, 2023 8 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Oil Price Rout Sends Ripples Across Related Industries https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Price-Rout-Sends-Ripples-Across-Related-Industries.html Oil certainly taking a beating at present even with production cuts and larger draw downs! Inventory drawdowns is the key, which means that oil prices will bounce back after panic over interest rate hikes fades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Inventory drawdowns is the key, which means that oil prices will bounce back after panic over interest rate hikes fades. ha ha ha....keep believing your own BS reality....the great rise in demand that you were waiting for did not materialize..... China is ditching ICE vehicles so fast that they do not need more Oil Fed Is in charge....Not Opec and your BS EVs are along term Oil killer Production of EVs are ramping up so fast that Oil markets are on the short end..... Enjoy EV's they are ruining your Oil parade Brent at Less than $72 and no one is stepping up to buy.............Must suck to buy into the Goldman Sachs BS Only a fool would trade on their BS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Oil demand is hot and is now causing inventories to draw down, which means that you and others who drive fossil fuel cars are still completely reliant on gasoline. Coal is also increasing in demand and production going forward. Thanks to you for proving my point, that oil and gasoline is the basis for American transportation needs. Most climate alarmists drive those old dirty fossil fuel cars...yes, that means you, buddy. I guess you had trouble reading again, try slowly reading and thinking for a change, "India’s coal minister said at the end of 2022 that the country has no intention of ditching coal from its energy mix any time soon. Addressing a parliamentary committee, Coal Minister Pralhad Joshi said that coal would continue to play an important role in India until at least 2040, referring to the fuel as an affordable energy source for which demand has yet to peak in India. China, for its part, is building or planning to build some 366 GW in new coal generation capacity, accounting for some 68% of global planned new coal capacity as of 2022." Oil demand is hot????? well the price of Brent and the future markets are not buying your BS Opec cut production and it backfired with a fall in the price and no stepped up demand to meet the still oversupplied market.. Maybe if Opec cut another 1 million BPD and the market will stababize at less than 99 Million BPD .........less than 2019 you see 2019 was peak oil I am suprised you are not mentioning what happened to your loved China and its big 2023 Oil Demand rise???? what happened????? China is ditching ICE vehicles for EV's ...60 percent of the China vehicle market is now EVs .....ouch for big oil China recession not working out for you???? and Coal..........China is in a recession....no chance of them upping coal consumption..they are building peaker coal plants only to supplement Renewables and they have ditched Nat Gas...guess they do no like importing Nat Gas... China renewables boom is more than enough to meet their expanding Electrical demand...what are they adding this year 200 GW of real supply (that is every year) not some pipe dream of proposed 366 GW coal over 10 years Look at the US Coal fired power plants they are running at l 30-40 percent utilization......Back up power at best Price of Nat Gas...Heading for an all time inflation adjusted low of under $2 and no one is stepping up all you have left is hoping for India.... PS price of spot coal took a header in the last 2 days.......looks like demand in coal is not materialising Please do not cry Enjoy the transition to renewables....Clean air sures beats stinky smog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG May 4, 2023 Exxon owned refinery in Beaumont finished an expansion of 250,000 bpd to refine light WTl for the Permian. My math says we export 1.250 mbpd of WTI crude soon to be 1 mbpd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG May 4, 2023 2 hours ago, notsonice said: Oil demand is hot????? well the price of Brent and the future markets are not buying your BS Opec cut production and it backfired with a fall in the price and no stepped up demand to meet the still oversupplied market.. Maybe if Opec cut another 1 million BPD and the market will stababize at less than 99 Million BPD .........less than 2019 you see 2019 was peak oil I am suprised you are not mentioning what happened to your loved China and its big 2023 Oil Demand rise???? what happened????? China is ditching ICE vehicles for EV's ...60 percent of the China vehicle market is now EVs .....ouch for big oil China recession not working out for you???? and Coal..........China is in a recession....no chance of them upping coal consumption..they are building peaker coal plants only to supplement Renewables and they have ditched Nat Gas...guess they do no like importing Nat Gas... China renewables boom is more than enough to meet their expanding Electrical demand...what are they adding this year 200 GW of real supply (that is every year) not some pipe dream of proposed 366 GW coal over 10 years Look at the US Coal fired power plants they are running at l 30-40 percent utilization......Back up power at best Price of Nat Gas...Heading for an all time inflation adjusted low of under $2 and no one is stepping up all you have left is hoping for India.... PS price of spot coal took a header in the last 2 days.......looks like demand in coal is not materialising Please do not cry Enjoy the transition to renewables....Clean air sures beats stinky smog Not sure about a China Recession. Last I looked GDP grew 4.2% for the month. The US is not in a recession either. Wars, rumors of wars, attempted Coups and conflict in several countries is par for the course. The worlds economy keeps chugging along. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 May 4, 2023 (edited) On 5/3/2023 at 6:45 AM, notsonice said: India is now your last hope???? did you abandon Oil demand and your claim that Oil is getting bigger and bigger in China ???? China is building coal stations as backups only.......for peak power demand.....for the short term Pay attention China is building over 100 major pump storage projects right now for peak demand...to store excess renewable power for peak demand everyday Already posted previously Fossil Fuel Emmisions Globally have already peaked...it is now down hill Your Clunker should do fine for a few more years???? soon to be replaced by an EV???? If the news regarding majority of newly built dams are not sustainable due to unpredictable weather and surrounded mostly by barren lands, with continuous upstream development....... is true..... China might be having problems soon... Those plants, probably would not be just back up plans..... Hope they have reviewed old method, double boiler, for double harvest..... Besides modification mentioned in one of the discussion i.e. a) to have adequate aeration, b) dryness of coal, c) adequate size of coal, for efficient burning reaching 85%.... Or more... Take it as a challenge to meet it instead of merely build a copied version blindly.... Edited May 4, 2023 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 4, 2023 4 hours ago, Boat said: Not sure about a China Recession. Last I looked GDP grew 4.2% for the month. The US is not in a recession either. Wars, rumors of wars, attempted Coups and conflict in several countries is par for the course. The worlds economy keeps chugging along. China is in a real estate Recession.....their whole countries expansion was based on building empty apartments... over 30 percent of their GDP is tied to building China’s Housing Market Has Plenty of Space but Not Enough Buyers The country is dealing with its worst oversupply of unsold apartments in years HONG KONG—China’s property market appears to have stabilized after a two-year downturn. But one problem continues to hold back its recovery: a major oversupply of unsold apartments. China had 3.5 billion square feet of finished but unsold apartments in February, according to Wind, a data provider. That is equivalent to around 4 million homes, according to some estimates. It is also the worst oversupply in China since 2017, when it was in the midst of a “slum clearance” program meant to boost demand for new housing by tearing down old, dilapidated buildings. Around a third of all newly completed apartments in 2022 were unsold, the highest percentage since 2015, calculations by property consulting firm China Real Estate Information Corp. show. The overhang is most acute in smaller cities with populations of a few million people or less, economists say. After a long building boom, the more than 640 cities labeled as “third tier” in China now have nearly 80% of China’s total housing stock, according to a paper published last year by economists Kenneth Rogoff and Yuanchen Yang. Demand in those cities is weaker than in bigger markets such as Beijing and Shanghai, where populations and job markets have grown faster. China has experienced a long building boom. PHOTO: QILAI SHEN/BLOOMBERG NEWS Total housing stock in China by city tierSource: "A Tale of Tier 3 Cities" by Kenneth Rogoffand Yuanchen Yang; International Monetary FundNote: Tier-1 cities refer to Beijing, Shanghai,Guangzhou and Shenzhen. Tier-2 cities covers 35large and medium-size cities. All other cities areconsidered tier-3 cities. Tier 1 and Tier 2Tier 32010'11'12'13'14'15'16'17'18'19'20'210204060billion square meters It would take nearly six years for one well-known third-tier city, Beihai, to absorb its stock of unsold homes, compared with seven months in Shanghai and nearly two years for Beijing, according to China Real Estate Information estimates. On average it would take 20 months to absorb the excess housing supply in the 50 cities that China Real Estate Information monitors, the firm said. The U.S. currently has a 2.9-month supply of existing homes, according to the National Association of Realtors, and an 8.2-month supply of new homes, according to U.S. government data. In February, new-home prices in “top-tier cities”—Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and Guangzhou—rose 1.7% from a year earlier. Prices in third-tier cities dropped by 3.3%, though the pace of decline has slowed from previous months, according to data from China’s statistical bureau. Overall, new-home prices across 70 major cities rose 0.3% from the previous month, after declining month-over-month since August 2021. If China fails to stabilize home prices in its lower-tier cities, which are home to about two-thirds of China’s urban population according to one estimate, it will likely damp household confidence and consumers’ willingness to spend in many parts of the country, limiting the extent of China’s overall economic recovery this year. In the longer run, the need to absorb the market’s excess housing could mean a prolonged period of depressed new-home construction, depriving China of one of its biggest growth drivers and job creators. New-home construction is also critical for China’s heavily indebted local governments, which rely on income from land sales to developers to balance their budgets. It would likely take six years for the third-tier city of Beihai to absorb its stock of unsold homes, according to one estimate. PHOTO: HU YAN/IMAGINE CHINA/REUTERS The need for real-estate construction in third-tier cities will need to shrink by roughly 30% between now and 2035 to avoid further oversupply, Mr. Rogoff and Ms. Yang concluded in their paper in September. Third-tier cities appealed to some property buyers before the pandemic because their home prices were typically much lower than in China’s bigger cities. Speculators swooped in from across China, in some cases snapping up multiple units and leaving them empty, expecting investment gains. Developers ramped up construction to meet anticipated demand. But Beijing’s efforts to wipe out speculation have collided with unfavorable demographics and other problems in smaller cities to make them less attractive now. By Stella Yifan Xie Updated April 4, 2023 1:35 am ET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, specinho said: If the news regarding majority of newly built dams are not sustainable due to unpredictable weather and surrounded mostly by barren lands, with continuous upstream development....... China might be having problems soon... Those plants, probably would not be just back up plans..... Hope they have reviewed old method, double boiler, for double harvest..... Besides modification mentioned in one of the discussion i.e. a) to have adequate aeration, b) dryness of coal, c) adequate size of coal, for efficient burning reaching 85%.... Or more... Take it as a challenge to meet it instead of merely build a copied version blindly.... If the news regarding majority of newly built dams are not sustainable due to unpredictable weather???? do you understand how pump storage works???? they are net zero on water use 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 May 4, 2023 9 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Oil demand is hot and is now causing inventories to draw down, which means that you and others who drive fossil fuel cars are still completely reliant on gasoline. Coal is also increasing in demand and production going forward. Thanks to you for proving my point, that oil and gasoline is the basis for American transportation needs. Most climate alarmists drive those old dirty fossil fuel cars...yes, that means you, buddy. I guess you had trouble reading again, try slowly reading and thinking for a change, "India’s coal minister said at the end of 2022 that the country has no intention of ditching coal from its energy mix any time soon. Addressing a parliamentary committee, Coal Minister Pralhad Joshi said that coal would continue to play an important role in India until at least 2040, referring to the fuel as an affordable energy source for which demand has yet to peak in India. China, for its part, is building or planning to build some 366 GW in new coal generation capacity, accounting for some 68% of global planned new coal capacity as of 2022." India has an urgency to prove itself as one of the greatest nations of the world in terms of number one in 1. Size of population 2. Global ranking of the richest 3. Producing doctors, lawyers, IT specialists, top officers of organizations of the world (p/s: there is a very big difference between quality of punjab doctors and indian doctors..... Although both indians... Those confused, please take a second read.....)... 4. Producing rejected military equipments and goods fast, massively..... ( Suggested to be tested on its own soil before selling, for the next order....) 5. Etc Owing to the empowerment by the rich (Germans and indians duplicate of archduke?...) but on overlooked inadequate basic attitude that turns them largely igrogant, they are projected to have a lot more problems coping with aftermaths of coal plants than other countries... Disaster is probably brewing with the size of their plans .... We must be willing to see what has been disclosed by themselves when they think nobody is looking nor caring in order to empower the right ones..... We are trying tentative equality by helping the deemed backwards, with obvious blindness. This blind, reckless act is creating unintended disastrous consequences that we may not be able to handle ... Are we sure we know what we are doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 May 4, 2023 16 minutes ago, notsonice said: China is in a real estate Recession.....their whole countries expansion was based on building empty apartments... over 30 percent of their GDP is tied to building China’s Housing Market Has Plenty of Space but Not Enough Buyers The country is dealing with its worst oversupply of unsold apartments in years HONG KONG—China’s property market appears to have stabilized after a two-year downturn. But one problem continues to hold back its recovery: a major oversupply of unsold apartments. China had 3.5 billion square feet of finished but unsold apartments in February, according to Wind, a data provider. That is equivalent to around 4 million homes, according to some estimates. It is also the worst oversupply in China since 2017, when it was in the midst of a “slum clearance” program meant to boost demand for new housing by tearing down old, dilapidated buildings. Around a third of all newly completed apartments in 2022 were unsold, the highest percentage since 2015, calculations by property consulting firm China Real Estate Information Corp. show. The overhang is most acute in smaller cities with populations of a few million people or less, economists say. After a long building boom, the more than 640 cities labeled as “third tier” in China now have nearly 80% of China’s total housing stock, according to a paper published last year by economists Kenneth Rogoff and Yuanchen Yang. Demand in those cities is weaker than in bigger markets such as Beijing and Shanghai, where populations and job markets have grown faster. China has experienced a long building boom. PHOTO: QILAI SHEN/BLOOMBERG NEWS Total housing stock in China by city tierSource: "A Tale of Tier 3 Cities" by Kenneth Rogoffand Yuanchen Yang; International Monetary FundNote: Tier-1 cities refer to Beijing, Shanghai,Guangzhou and Shenzhen. Tier-2 cities covers 35large and medium-size cities. All other cities areconsidered tier-3 cities. Tier 1 and Tier 2Tier 32010'11'12'13'14'15'16'17'18'19'20'210204060billion square meters It would take nearly six years for one well-known third-tier city, Beihai, to absorb its stock of unsold homes, compared with seven months in Shanghai and nearly two years for Beijing, according to China Real Estate Information estimates. On average it would take 20 months to absorb the excess housing supply in the 50 cities that China Real Estate Information monitors, the firm said. The U.S. currently has a 2.9-month supply of existing homes, according to the National Association of Realtors, and an 8.2-month supply of new homes, according to U.S. government data. In February, new-home prices in “top-tier cities”—Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and Guangzhou—rose 1.7% from a year earlier. Prices in third-tier cities dropped by 3.3%, though the pace of decline has slowed from previous months, according to data from China’s statistical bureau. Overall, new-home prices across 70 major cities rose 0.3% from the previous month, after declining month-over-month since August 2021. If China fails to stabilize home prices in its lower-tier cities, which are home to about two-thirds of China’s urban population according to one estimate, it will likely damp household confidence and consumers’ willingness to spend in many parts of the country, limiting the extent of China’s overall economic recovery this year. In the longer run, the need to absorb the market’s excess housing could mean a prolonged period of depressed new-home construction, depriving China of one of its biggest growth drivers and job creators. New-home construction is also critical for China’s heavily indebted local governments, which rely on income from land sales to developers to balance their budgets. It would likely take six years for the third-tier city of Beihai to absorb its stock of unsold homes, according to one estimate. PHOTO: HU YAN/IMAGINE CHINA/REUTERS The need for real-estate construction in third-tier cities will need to shrink by roughly 30% between now and 2035 to avoid further oversupply, Mr. Rogoff and Ms. Yang concluded in their paper in September. Third-tier cities appealed to some property buyers before the pandemic because their home prices were typically much lower than in China’s bigger cities. Speculators swooped in from across China, in some cases snapping up multiple units and leaving them empty, expecting investment gains. Developers ramped up construction to meet anticipated demand. But Beijing’s efforts to wipe out speculation have collided with unfavorable demographics and other problems in smaller cities to make them less attractive now. By Stella Yifan Xie Updated April 4, 2023 1:35 am ET This problem is not new... More than 10 years ago, the cash rich were very blessed... During initial investment phase, investing one apartment in China from a specific developer could entitle a free gift of another condominium somewhere in Malaysia of convenient locations...... This is not to show how worthy the investment plan was but how many unsold things are there...... The last news i received few years ago from the person in charged was those same places still have problems selling... Overdevelopment with stalled demand might have been an global issue... Not just China. It is a big game with massive, quick result....... that would send those to heavenly paradise of profits, or hell of losses with others' money.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP May 4, 2023 (edited) This seems crazy to me, NG surely is a key transition energy resource and is crucial to an economic and stable transition. In fact you could argue it should remain as a key energy resource for many many decades to come. New York State Successfully Passes Ban On Natural Gas Stoves https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/New-York-State-Successfully-Passes-Ban-On-Natural-Gas-Stoves.html @Ron Wagner I bet you would agree with me on this one Ron! Edited May 4, 2023 by Rob Plant 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloodman33 + 22 TJ May 5, 2023 https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/05/world/ocean-surface-temperature-heat-record-climate-intl/index.html The oil and coal industry must be shut down at any cost! Nuclear, solar, wind. Bye bye big oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 5, 2023 (edited) On 5/3/2023 at 9:04 PM, notsonice said: Oil demand is hot????? well the price of Brent and the future markets are not buying your BS Opec cut production and it backfired with a fall in the price and no stepped up demand to meet the still oversupplied market.. Maybe if Opec cut another 1 million BPD and the market will stababize at less than 99 Million BPD .........less than 2019 you see 2019 was peak oil I am suprised you are not mentioning what happened to your loved China and its big 2023 Oil Demand rise???? what happened????? China is ditching ICE vehicles for EV's ...60 percent of the China vehicle market is now EVs .....ouch for big oil China recession not working out for you???? and Coal..........China is in a recession....no chance of them upping coal consumption..they are building peaker coal plants only to supplement Renewables and they have ditched Nat Gas...guess they do no like importing Nat Gas... China renewables boom is more than enough to meet their expanding Electrical demand...what are they adding this year 200 GW of real supply (that is every year) not some pipe dream of proposed 366 GW coal over 10 years Look at the US Coal fired power plants they are running at l 30-40 percent utilization......Back up power at best Price of Nat Gas...Heading for an all time inflation adjusted low of under $2 and no one is stepping up all you have left is hoping for India.... PS price of spot coal took a header in the last 2 days.......looks like demand in coal is not materialising Please do not cry Enjoy the transition to renewables....Clean air sures beats stinky smog As long as you and your fellow panic mongers keep buying fossil fuel vehicles and filling your tanks with gasoline, oil inventories will continue to decline and oil production will continue to rise. You are the one who is propping up the price of oil with your own personal behavior, some joke. As I correctly predicted above, oil prices have bounced up after the temporary panic over projected interest rate hikes. It helps to have studied economics, old man. Edited May 5, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 5, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, bloodman33 said: https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/05/world/ocean-surface-temperature-heat-record-climate-intl/index.html The oil and coal industry must be shut down at any cost! Nuclear, solar, wind. Bye bye big oil. Oil and coal are ramping up, they are king. and you support fossil fuels with your own purchasing decisions. Thank you, buddy. Edited May 5, 2023 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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