GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

11 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

And coal just keeps going down in the US

World coal demand is at an all-time high.

Wikipedia on the politics of clean coal,

"Former Secretary of State Hilary Clinton has said that "we should strive to have new electricity generation come from other sources, such as clean coal and renewables", and former Energy Secretary Dr. Steven Chu has said that "It is absolutely worthwhile to invest in carbon capture and storage", noting that even if the U.S. and Europe turned their backs on coal, developing nations like India and China would likely not.

During the first 2012 United States presidential election debate Mitt Romney expressed his support for clean coal, and claimed that current federal policies were hampering the coal industry.

During the Trump administration, an Office of Clean Coal and Carbon Management was set up within the United States Department of Energy.."

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

5 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Anything process that produces a waste that must be disposed of, rather than USED, is NOT "clean",

It's just working around the legal requirements.

The legislators still have work to do.

What operational waste does wind, or solar, or hydro produce?

Here is how the term is defined in Wikipedia,

"In its original usage, the term "Clean Coal" was used to refer to technologies that were designed to reduce emission of pollutants associated with burning coal, such as washing coal at the mine. This step removes some of the sulfur and other contaminants, including rocks and soil. This makes coal cleaner and cheaper to transport. ....Clean coal technology usually addresses atmospheric problems resulting from burning coal. Historically, the primary focus was on SO₂ and NO_x, the most important gases in causation of acid rain, and particulates which cause visible air pollution and have deleterious effects on human health."

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[turbguy + 1,436]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

Here is how the term is defined in Wikipedia,

"In its original usage, the term "Clean Coal" was used to refer to technologies that were designed to reduce emission of pollutants associated with burning coal, such as washing coal at the mine. This step removes some of the sulfur and other contaminants, including rocks and soil. This makes coal cleaner and cheaper to transport. More recently, the definition of clean coal has been expanded to include carbon capture and storage. Clean coal technology usually addresses atmospheric problems resulting from burning coal. Historically, the primary focus was on SO₂ and NO_x, the most important gases in causation of acid rain, and particulates which cause visible air pollution and have deleterious effects on human health."

I suggest you actually make an in -depth tour of any coal-fired power house, then report back.

Coal is cheap.

Coal is available.

Coal is filthy stuff.

IMO, while it does work (particularly amine adsorption schemes) Carbon Capture will NEVER be economical.  It requires WAY to much house power!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

11 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

World coal demand is at an all-time high.

"Former Secretary of State Hilary Clinton has said that "we should strive to have new electricity generation come from other sources, such as clean coal and renewables", and former Energy Secretary Dr. Steven Chu has said that "It is absolutely worthwhile to invest in carbon capture and storage", noting that even if the U.S. and Europe turned their backs on coal, developing nations like India and China would likely not.

During the first 2012 United States presidential election debate Mitt Romney expressed his support for clean coal, and claimed that current federal policies were hampering the coal industry.

During the Trump administration, an Office of Clean Coal and Carbon Management was set up within the United States Department of Energy.."

So all of that is ancient news and proven wrong as clean coal is a complete and total failure. Regular coal is more expensive than renewables and so called clean coal is way more expensive than regular coal.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

9 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

World coal demand is at an all-time high.

"Former Secretary of State Hilary Clinton has said that "we should strive to have new electricity generation come from other sources, such as clean coal and renewables", and former Energy Secretary Dr. Steven Chu has said that "It is absolutely worthwhile to invest in carbon capture and storage", noting that even if the U.S. and Europe turned their backs on coal, developing nations like India and China would likely not.

During the first 2012 United States presidential election debate Mitt Romney expressed his support for clean coal, and claimed that current federal policies were hampering the coal industry.

During the Trump administration, an Office of Clean Coal and Carbon Management was set up within the United States Department of Energy.."

Yes, world coal demand has peaked. All downhill from here.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

9 minutes ago, turbguy said:

I suggest you actually make an in -depth tour of any coal-fired power house, then report back.

Coal is cheap.

Coal is available.

Coal is filthy stuff.

IMO, while it does work (particularly amine adsorption schemes) Carbon Capture will NEVER be economical.  It requires WAY to much house power!

No need to capture CO2, we need more of it to keep the planet green.

Clean coal is a cheap energy source and it is getting cleaner all the time.

7 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes, world coal demand has peaked. All downhill from here.

Coal demand is ramping up on a world-wide basis, in response to the cries of Hilary Clinton! She was not disappointed.

Your cries are cries of  desperation, Jay.

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/052623-global-investment-in-coal-to-rise-10-in-2023-to-150-billion-iea#:~:text=Investment in global coal production,the International Energy Agency said.

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

HIGHLIGHTS

$135 billion spent in 2022

90% investment to be in Asia Pacific

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

No need to capture CO2, we need more of it to keep the planet green.

Clean coal is a cheap energy source and it is getting cleaner all the time.

Coal demand is ramping up on a world-wide basis, in response to the cries of Hilary Clinton! She was not disappointed.

Hillary said that 10 years ago and she has been proven wrong. 

If clean coal is a cheap energy source then why is it failing???

Coal is at its global peak, all downhill from here.

[turbguy + 1,436]

Just now, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes, world coal demand has peaked. All downhill from here.

The real issue at hand is the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy (that typically consumes zero fuel), "upsets the apple cart" of those who have significant interest in fuels. 

That includes employed miners, governments that depend upon revenue from fuel extraction, and all the related industries and financial interests in same.

All of those, even concertedly acting together, will never overcome the basic thermodynamics at hand.

 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

3 minutes ago, turbguy said:

The real issue at hand is the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy (that typically consumes zero fuel), "upsets the apple cart" of those who have significant interest in fuels. 

That includes employed miners, governments that depend upon revenue from fuel extraction, and all the related industries and financial interests in same.

All of those, even concertedly acting together, will never overcome the basic thermodynamics at hand.

 

Your usual malarky.

Here is the reality,

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

You usual malarky.

Here is the reality,

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

Investing in new coal power plants does not mean that more coal will be used.

 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Hillary said that 10 years ago and she has been proven wrong. 

If clean coal is a cheap energy source then why is it failing???

Coal is at its global peak, all downhill from here.

Your usual fairy tales, Jay.

Read the reality,

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

[turbguy + 1,436]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

You usual malarky.

Here is the reality,

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

As I said, "Financial Interests".

Coal ain't going away tomorrow, or next year, or the next decade.

BUT...

20 years from now?

I expect it to be actually outlawed in  many areas.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Hillary said that 10 years ago and she has been proven wrong. 

If clean coal is a cheap energy source then why is it failing???

Coal is at its global peak, all downhill from here.

Hilary has been proven right.

Go Clean Coal.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Just now, turbguy said:

As I said, "Financial Interests".

Coal ain't going away tomorrow, or next year, or the next decade.

BUT...

20 years from now?

I expect it to be actually outlawed in  many areas.

Yep, in California, the 5th largest world economy, it is outlawed in 2045 along with all other FF.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

1 minute ago, turbguy said:

As I said, "Financial Interests".

Coal ain't going away tomorrow, or next year, or the next decade.

BUT...

20 years from now?

I expect it to be actually outlawed in  many areas.

I expect that wishful dreamers in Green Oblivion will be put out to pasture in a field of of highly CO2-invested greenery.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yep, in California, the 5th largest world economy, it is outlawed in 2045 along with all other FF.

California better get its act together, I was there last year and what I saw in the streets of San Francisco would make George Washington faint.

Get real, Jay.

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

I guess that headline has just struck you dumb for words.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Hilary has been proven right.

Go Clean Coal.

No new coal plants in the US since her statement and only one so called "clean coal" plant is barely in operation today because it pushes the waste into oil fields to drive oil production.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

California better get its act together, I was there last year and what I saw in the streets of San Francisco would make George Washington faint.

Get real, Jay.

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

I guess that headline has just struck you dumb for words.

Your quote of my statement shows that I provided sufficient words.

 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Your quote of my statement shows that I provided sufficient words.

 

Jay, you failed to respond,

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

Cat got your tongue?

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

The future is bright for King Coal.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Asia-Will-Continue-To-Need-Fossil-Fuels-For-Economic-Growth.html

"Malaysia’s Prime Minister has said that oil and gas will continue to play important roles in Asia’s energy mix.

India’s Coal Minister has said that the country has no intention of ditching coal from its energy mix any time soon.

China is set to build 68% of global planned new coal capacity, suggesting it is far from turning its back on fossil fuels."

Edited June 26, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

25 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, you failed to respond,

Global investment in coal to rise 10% in 2023 to $150 billion: IEA

Cat got your tongue?

I already replied. An increase in coal plant investment does not mean that more coal will actually be used. The only country driving this is China and they are economically and demographically screwed.

[turbguy + 1,436]

Try this:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/solar-power-bails-out-texas-grid-during-major-heat-wave/

Edited June 26, 2023 by turbguy

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, turbguy said:

Try this:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/solar-power-bails-out-texas-grid-during-major-heat-wave/

That headline really needs to be pulled out:

Solar Power Bails Out Texas Grid during Major Heat Wave

Solar power has been crucial to keeping the power on in Texas while the state experiences a major heat wave, even as some politicians have attempted to make it more difficult to connect renewable energy to the grid

• By Benjamin Storrow, E&E News on June 26, 2023

[Boat + 1,315]

Has anyone seen the latest electricity consumption in Texas for a typical summer day. Have batteries improved the duck shaped consumption patterns. That’s the eye test. How are other areas like California doing. You would think sunny southern states would fare the best. 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

5 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I already replied. An increase in coal plant investment does not mean that more coal will actually be used. The only country driving this is China and they are economically and demographically screwed.

That investment does not happen without increased demand, Jay, I guess you must have skipped the economics field altogether.