Jay McKinsey + 1,490 June 29, 2023 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The fossil fuel backup units were deprived of electricity to get them started because the electrical authorities cut them off. Guess what happened next, the backup system failed. Then everything could not work. So you finally admit that renewable energy was not responsible, the authorities were. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: So you finally admit that renewable energy was not responsible, the authorities were. You got that backwards, Jay. The failure of wind/solar pulled down the entire system. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 29, 2023 (edited) The attempt to go electric is taking down government finances everywhere. Subsidies are not just to consumers, but to producers. https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Wind-Power/Supply-Chain-Bottlenecks-Threaten-UKs-Offshore-Wind-Dreams.html "Renewable UK has called for increased government investment in manufacturing to address supply chain bottlenecks and retain private capital. The group asserts that to meet the government's 50GW offshore wind target, the UK must invest £17bn per year in public and private sector investment in the industry until 2030. Amid rising costs and supply chain shortages, energy giant RWE has called for clear strategies for offshore wind growth." Edited June 29, 2023 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 June 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: You got that backwards, Jay. The failure of wind/solar pulled down the entire system. No you said the failure was due to the authorities cutting them off, which is correct. Edited June 29, 2023 by Jay McKinsey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 30, 2023 7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: No you said the failure was due to the authorities cutting them off, which is correct. Yes, the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events which brought the whole system down. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Yes, the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events which brought the whole system down. the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events which brought the whole system down..........????? hey if your BS helps you sleep at night.... the real reason as explained over and over again 1) a failure to winterwise ng and coal facilities 2) a failure to hook up to out of state grids/W Texas to spread the load in an emergency 3) Idiots in charge...Texans are not the smartest lot of people when it gets down to freezing Solar ????? it was the middle of winter......Solar is not much of a winter producer yet all the other states that experience winter do not have the same problems look at Iowa Wind is a 40 percent producer ...much more in the winter ...Ice storms are the norm in Iowa...Lights stay on..Texas??? lights go out Reality no one is buying your Texas sized fairy tale.....the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events???? A Texas Whopper 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 June 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Yes, the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events which brought the whole system down. Ain't you bein' a little "extreme"? Bringing the "whole system down" did not occur. Else, ALL of ERCOT would have been black. Then, it takes many DAYS to recover. Edited June 30, 2023 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 June 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Yes, the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events which brought the whole system down. The electrical authorities shut them down. Had they not done this Texas sized stupidity there would have been no crisis at all. Renewables were not involved. End of story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 30, 2023 1 hour ago, notsonice said: the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events which brought the whole system down..........????? hey if your BS helps you sleep at night.... the real reason as explained over and over again 1) a failure to winterwise ng and coal facilities 2) a failure to hook up to out of state grids/W Texas to spread the load in an emergency 3) Idiots in charge...Texans are not the smartest lot of people when it gets down to freezing Solar ????? it was the middle of winter......Solar is not much of a winter producer yet all the other states that experience winter do not have the same problems look at Iowa Wind is a 40 percent producer ...much more in the winter ...Ice storms are the norm in Iowa...Lights stay on..Texas??? lights go out Reality no one is buying your Texas sized fairy tale.....the wind/solar failure triggered a chain of events???? A Texas Whopper The fact remains that the system collapsed due to a failure of the renewable wind/solar system in Texas. That failure was compounded by the state authorities cutting of the fossil fuel backup system from the electricity it needed to start up. The over-reliance on wind/solar started the whole mess. 2 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: The electrical authorities shut them down. Had they not done this Texas sized stupidity there would have been no crisis at all. Renewables were not involved. End of story. Renewables started the whole nightmare by failing to deliver. Over-reliance on renewables set up the catastrophe. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The fact remains that the system collapsed due to a failure of the renewable wind/solar system in Texas. That failure was compounded by the state authorities cutting of the fossil fuel backup system from the electricity it needed to start up. The over-reliance on wind/solar started the whole mess. There was no system collapse. THAT would have been disastrous beyond anything we have experienced. One of the root cause was it got REALLY COLD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 June 30, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Renewables started the whole nightmare by failing to deliver. Over-reliance on renewables set up the catastrophe. No, as is widely known by everyone, especially in Texas, it was a failure of the authorities to properly manage the natural gas flow: During the February 2021 winter storm, transmission companies inadvertently cut power to parts of the natural gas supply chain when ERCOT ordered the utilities to reduce power demand or risk further damage to the grid. That decision aggravated the problem as natural gas producers were unable to deliver enough fuel to power plants. At the same time, some wells were unable to produce as much natural gas due to the freezing conditions. https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/15/texas-power-grid-winter-storm-2021/ But of course you will just keep lying about this forever because lying is all you've got. Edited June 30, 2023 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said: No, as is widely known by everyone, especially in Texas, it was a failure of the authorities to properly manage the natural gas flow: During the February 2021 winter storm, transmission companies inadvertently cut power to parts of the natural gas supply chain when ERCOT ordered the utilities to reduce power demand or risk further damage to the grid. That decision aggravated the problem as natural gas producers were unable to deliver enough fuel to power plants. At the same time, some wells were unable to produce as much natural gas due to the freezing conditions. https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/15/texas-power-grid-winter-storm-2021/ But of course you will just keep lying about this forever because lying is all you've got. Look who is talking.... The whole problem started with renewable FAILURE, as you have already conceded. Then the authorities mishandled the fossil fuel backup system by cutting off their electricity and stopping them from doing their job. Failure after failure after failure...the overreliance on renewables set it all up. A colossal waste of public money. Edited June 30, 2023 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 June 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Look who is talking.... The whole problem started with renewable FAILURE, as you have already conceded. Then the authorities mishandled the fossil fuel backup system by cutting off their electricity and stopping them from doing their job. Failure after failure after failure...the overreliance on renewables set it all up. A colossal waste of public money. No I have not conceded anything. You are just desperately lying as usual. Meanwhile in a place called reality Renewable energy just keeps growing at a fantastic rate. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 30, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: No I have not conceded anything. You are just desperately lying as usual. Meanwhile in a place called reality Renewable energy just keeps growing at a fantastic rate. So does fossil fuel energy, You seem to think that energy is a zero-sum game. The world of economics is not like that. And, yes, you conceded the failure of renewables in the Texas case. That initiated the problem. The problem was compounded by authorities shutting off electricity to the fossil fuel backup system. Edited June 30, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 June 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: So does fossil fuel energy, You seem to think that energy is a zero-sum game. The world of economics is not like that. And, yes, you conceded the failure of renewables in the Texas case. That caused the problem. I conceded that as you said authorities cut off natural gas for no good reason. Energy is a zero sum game by definition. The electrical grid for example can not handle production in excess of demand. But of course you have zero understanding of such things. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 June 30, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: Energy is a zero sum game by definition. The electrical grid for example can not handle production in excess of demand. But of course you have zero understanding of such things. The electrical grid cannot handle demand in excess of production, either. Texas, February, 2021, is a great example. Edited June 30, 2023 by turbguy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 30, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: I conceded that as you said authorities cut off natural gas for no good reason. Energy is a zero sum game by definition. The electrical grid for example can not handle production in excess of demand. But of course you have zero understanding of such things. No, energy is not a zero-sum game, there are potentials for more or less production and import/export of energy on a contingency basis. But clearly renewables are the most vulnerable sources of energy to weather disruptions, you can always upgrade weatherization of NG pipelines and coal supplies, but wind turbines and solar panels are at the mercy of the weather. Edited June 30, 2023 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 30, 2023 30 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: No, energy is not a zero-sum game, there are potentials for more or less production and import/export of energy on a contingency basis. But clearly renewables are the most vulnerable sources of energy to weather disruptions, you can always upgrade weatherization of NG pipelines and coal supplies, but wind turbines and solar panels are at the mercy of the weather. you can always upgrade weatherization of NG pipelines and coal supplies??? and yet the fools in Texas did not get the message or just ignored it...... every other state in the Union understands how to keep the power flowing when it gets cold out.... Just not in Texas......where the braindead run the show........ upgrade weatherization of NG pipelines and coal supplies did not happen in Texas and the result was Feb 2021...... 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 June 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: No, energy is not a zero-sum game, there are potentials for more or less production and import/export of energy on a contingency basis. But clearly renewables are the most vulnerable sources of energy to weather disruptions, you can always upgrade weatherization of NG pipelines and coal supplies, but wind turbines and solar panels are at the mercy of the weather. The electricity market requires a 100% match between production and demand. End of story. It does not work any other way. Oh and solar requires no weatherization whatsoever and turbines are consistently provided with weatherization everywhere but the moronic state of Texas. Edited June 30, 2023 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlBub + 14 AB June 30, 2023 38 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: The electricity market requires a 100% match between production and demand. End of story. It does not work any other way. Oh and solar requires no weatherization whatsoever and turbines are consistently provided with weatherization everywhere but the moronic state of Texas. Solar panels have even been proven to handle baseball sized hail with absolutely no problem! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, AlBub said: Solar panels have even been proven to handle baseball sized hail with absolutely no problem! softball sized is baseball sized this happened in the last few days 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG June 30, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 10:27 AM, Ecocharger said: Coal demand will stay at all-time highs going forward partly because of the increased production of EVs for electricity generation. China a case in point. Adding ac and many other modern convenience products of course use more electricity than peasants running a 2 ox cart. Less sex will fix a lot of problems. More tv, less sex is the rallying cry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: No, energy is not a zero-sum game, there are potentials for more or less production and import/export of energy on a contingency basis. But clearly renewables are the most vulnerable sources of energy to weather disruptions, you can always upgrade weatherization of NG pipelines and coal supplies, but wind turbines and solar panels are at the mercy of the weather. You missed Putin with missiles eh? Nord stream 2 was not a renewable problem. When the Chinese started the trend called “let it rot” did you drop in for a nap? So the Saudi say let’s drop production, your brain thinks, must be renewables at fault. Production drops in oil cannot be called intermittent. When the Chinese got mad at Australia and slowed coal purchases, was that intermittent? Me thinks your bs is just that. Lol If the Chinese use more coal to build larger and cheaper tvs. Ok I can accept that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL July 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: The electricity market requires a 100% match between production and demand. End of story. It does not work any other way. Oh and solar requires no weatherization whatsoever and turbines are consistently provided with weatherization everywhere but the moronic state of Texas. Solar is at the mercy of the weather. Wind electricity, yes, is at the mercy of the weather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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