GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

49 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Those numbers are all on the same scale and all were equally affected by the loss of other generation. Wind increased by 4.9 points and coal increased by 2.5 points.  

I'll grant you that your report was looking at primary energy mix and I was looking at electric. 

"I'll grant you" what?  You were screaming about my "blatant misinformation", and now you take it back?

Jay, try and get a hold of things before jumping into overdrive, and labelling others as blatant misinformation pushers.

These are not always simple issues, and we should give the benefit of the doubt to the sincerity of those who disagree.

Try to refrain from throwing disparaging labels around in a casual way.

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

27 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Are they trying to shutdown some pipeline other than Enbridge 5?

Enbridge 5 is enough, that is the big one that traverses Michigan. It supplies many millions of people in several states.

Pipelines for energy are not going away anytime soon.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/19-US-Oil-Gas-Pipelines-Moving-To-Completion-This-Year.html

 

[turbguy + 1,541]

3 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

 

Pipelines for energy are not going away anytime soon.

Agreed!

Much cheaper than rail.  More reliable, too.

Edited June 27, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

Just to return to the point raised above, natural gas and oil are still the major providers of energy in the modern economy.

"In 2019, the high-water mark year for gas, wind, and solar alike, gas still supplied nearly nine times as much energy as wind and solar. The enduring disparity should give pause to any policymaker contemplating measures that would rapidly curtail domestic gas supplies on the assumption that renewables could quickly and seamlessly fill the void."

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/?tbl=T01.03#/?f=A&start=1949&end=2020&charted=1-2-3-5-12

Edited June 27, 2021 by Ecocharger

[turbguy + 1,541]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Just to return to the point raised above, natural gas and oil are still the major providers of energy in the modern economy.

"In 2019, the high-water mark year for gas, wind, and solar alike, gas still supplied nearly nine times as much energy as wind and solar. The enduring disparity should give pause to any policymaker contemplating measures that would rapidly curtail domestic gas supplies on the assumption that renewables could quickly and seamlessly fill the void."

Yeah, fossil fuels ain't going away soon.

And they will slowly go away...

[Boat + 1,323]

50 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Just to return to the point raised above, natural gas and oil are still the major providers of energy in the modern economy.

"In 2019, the high-water mark year for gas, wind, and solar alike, gas still supplied nearly nine times as much energy as wind and solar. The enduring disparity should give pause to any policymaker contemplating measures that would rapidly curtail domestic gas supplies on the assumption that renewables could quickly and seamlessly fill the void."

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/?tbl=T01.03#/?f=A&start=1949&end=2020&charted=1-2-3-5-12

Nat gas will continue to grow as transportation moves towards electricity. In ten years? 20 years? We’ll see how tech drops the price of grid storage. McKinsey thinks 2027 is the approximate peak oil year. That seems like a pretty good guess. 
Like I have thought for decades. It will take voluntary action and awareness to decrease population to cut into pollution and health problems. The world just ain’t woke enough to figure it out. 

[turbguy + 1,541]

9 hours ago, Boat said:

Nat gas will continue to grow as transportation moves towards electricity. In ten years? 20 years? We’ll see how tech drops the price of grid storage. McKinsey thinks 2027 is the approximate peak oil year. That seems like a pretty good guess. 
Like I have thought for decades. It will take voluntary action and awareness to decrease population to cut into pollution and health problems. The world just ain’t woke enough to figure it out. 

Sometimes I fear that the current modus operandi of "humanity" is inherently unsustainable of the long term.

Edited June 27, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

16 hours ago, Boat said:

Nat gas will continue to grow as transportation moves towards electricity. In ten years? 20 years? We’ll see how tech drops the price of grid storage. McKinsey thinks 2027 is the approximate peak oil year. That seems like a pretty good guess. 
Like I have thought for decades. It will take voluntary action and awareness to decrease population to cut into pollution and health problems. The world just ain’t woke enough to figure it out. 

If atmospheric CO2 is reduced, there will be widespread reduction of agricultural productivity, which will cause famines and depopulation. 

I think that the "green" agenda will eliminate the problem of too many mouths to feed. Famine created by human green policy is one answer.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

16 hours ago, Boat said:

Nat gas will continue to grow as transportation moves towards electricity. In ten years? 20 years? We’ll see how tech drops the price of grid storage. McKinsey thinks 2027 is the approximate peak oil year. That seems like a pretty good guess. 
Like I have thought for decades. It will take voluntary action and awareness to decrease population to cut into pollution and health problems. The world just ain’t woke enough to figure it out. 

Peak oil may never come. Oil may experience a reduction in the percentage of overall mix of energy sources, but still increase in absolute terms.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Boat + 1,323]

12 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Peak oil may never come. Oil may experience a reduction in the percentage of overall mix of energy sources, but still increase in absolute terms.

Did you come up with that on your own or read it in a book. I got one for you. India and Pakistan may go nuclear and the ensuing climate freeze may end civilization. Oh yea, in absolute terms.  

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

16 minutes ago, Boat said:

Did you come up with that on your own or read it in a book. I got one for you. India and Pakistan may go nuclear and the ensuing climate freeze may end civilization. Oh yea, in absolute terms.  

I am expecting a sudden end to things at some point, which no one can predict.

We cannot allow our expectations of doom to interrupt more pedestrian calculations.

[Boat + 1,323]

There is plenty of oil out there if the Saudi and Russians cooperate. You got that going for you. The population continues to grow so miles driven will continue to grow. Demand for oil since 1950 has grown close to 1.5 mb per year until recently. So steady demand growth has a long history. So yea, we’ll see in a few years if electric tech can get cheap enough to capture market share. 

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

21 hours ago, Boat said:

There is plenty of oil out there if the Saudi and Russians cooperate. You got that going for you. The population continues to grow so miles driven will continue to grow. Demand for oil since 1950 has grown close to 1.5 mb per year until recently. So steady demand growth has a long history. So yea, we’ll see in a few years if electric tech can get cheap enough to capture market share. 

Agreed. I fully expect that oil demand will hold a reduced percentage of the energy market, but will still grow in absolute numbers.

Here is where the rubber meets the road, reality of market forces will trump (excuse the word) the philosophical claims of environmentalist frenzy,

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/President-Bidens-Pipeline-Paradox.html

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

Another victory for Biden & Co.,....er, excuse me, another victory for the natural gas pipeline industry against environmentalist fanatics.

The current administration in D.C. actually supported this carbon-based project.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Pipeline-Operators-Score-Massive-Supreme-Court-Victory.html

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 6/22/2021 at 7:25 PM, Ecocharger said:

U.S. coal use and production is up substantially this year.

" Coal stockpiles declined by 16 million tons in February 2021, the largest inventory decline since July 2011.

-    Typically, coal stocks decline in the summer months, when coal demand surges. 

-    Rising natural gas prices in late 2020 and early 2021 have also increased coal demand, with coal generation up 16% in December 2020 and January 2021, from a year earlier. "

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48436

Coal is most definitely not up in the UK!

https://news.sky.com/story/coal-power-generation-to-end-in-2024-as-deadline-is-brought-forward-government-promises-12345577

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Coal is most definitely not up in the UK!

https://news.sky.com/story/coal-power-generation-to-end-in-2024-as-deadline-is-brought-forward-government-promises-12345577

If I can construct some reasonable explanation for EU and British carbon policy, I will be worthy of a Nobel Prize for extreme intelligence.

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

The oil industry is exploring new technological frontiers in futuristic fashion.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Big-Oils-Digital-Pivot-Marks-The-Beginning-Of-A-New-Era-For-The-Industry.html

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

It appears that Biden & Co. are concerned about high oil prices and will not levy gasoline taxes as is being urged by radical environmentalists. Reality is beginning to set in.

"Psaki said President Joe Biden had opposed raising a gasoline tax in the infrastructure bill because of concern about consumers."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/white-house-worried-about-high-oil-prices-sees-enough-production-capacity-2021-07-02/

Edited July 4, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

This basic argument is not even resolved yet. Which is carbon-reductive, ICE or EV?

 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/When-Do-EVs-Become-Cleaner-Than-Gas-Powered-Cars.html

[Boat + 1,323]

On 6/28/2021 at 4:43 PM, Ecocharger said:

Agreed. I fully expect that oil demand will hold a reduced percentage of the energy market, but will still grow in absolute numbers.

Here is where the rubber meets the road, reality of market forces will trump (excuse the word) the philosophical claims of environmentalist frenzy,

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/President-Bidens-Pipeline-Paradox.html

Those barrels from Alberta are minuscule on the world market and have little to do with US consumption. Most of Canada’s we import oil gets refined and shipped to foreign countries. But OPEC regularly adds or takes away oil and controls the world market. Your politics are misinformed and do not account for a World market. 
Domestically pipelines needed by US oil are being built all the time. But you have to promote a false narrative. Trumpism. A little buddy of the Koch empire.

But yea, most of that tar oil is not needed for the globe to motor around. I say, build your own pipelines and refineries and those US greenies would have much less to contest.

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

1 hour ago, Boat said:

Those barrels from Alberta are minuscule on the world market and have little to do with US consumption. Most of Canada’s we import oil gets refined and shipped to foreign countries. But OPEC regularly adds or takes away oil and controls the world market. Your politics are misinformed and do not account for a World market. 
Domestically pipelines needed by US oil are being built all the time. But you have to promote a false narrative. Trumpism. A little buddy of the Koch empire.

But yea, most of that tar oil is not needed for the globe to motor around. I say, build your own pipelines and refineries and those US greenies would have much less to contest.

Here is the bottom line from the article.

"Line 5 is as essential for the energy security of Michigan and other states in the vicinity as Nord Stream is for Germany. Both provide energy that cannot be sourced as easily or cheaply from other suppliers. The U.S. has political arguments against the Russian project and environmental arguments against the Canadian project, but in the end, both are likely to be trumped by the fundamental market forces of supply and demand."

Michigan still needs oil and gas to keep its economy running, which is why no one can figure out the opposition to Line 5.

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

There is still plenty of strength in oil markets, partially fueled by strategic/military developments in the mid-East region.

This will probably continue and even be ratcheted up.

One leader vowed,

"“We want it to be an operation in which everyone says they have taken revenge from the Americans,” al-Walae also said. “It will be a qualitative operation (that could come) from the air, the sea, along Iraq’s border, in the region or anywhere. It’s an open war.”"

 

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Rockets-Target-US-Troops-As-Iraqi-Militia-Leader-Vows-Revenge.html

Edited July 6, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

Well, another week has brought a doubled-down effort by Biden & Co. to decrease.....no, no, that's not right....to INCREASE oil production, and the State Department is lobbying oil producers to ramp up oil production to relieve the American consumer of price shock at their local gas stations. 

Reality has triumphed, and we will hear no more nonsense from government about getting rid of the oil industry.

The whole idea was a big laugh, anyway.

Here is the official announcement of the Green Capitulation, courtesy of Biden & Co.,

"The White House is “closely monitoring the OPEC+ negotiations and their impact on the global economic recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic,” according to a spokesperson quoted by Bloomberg. “Administration officials have been engaged with relevant capitals to urge a compromise solution that will allow proposed production increases to move forward.”"

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Biden-Urges-OPEC-To-Raise-Output-Amid-Soaring-Crude-Prices.html

Edited July 6, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

Biden & Co. have taken a dramatic about-turn in oil policy, which is entirely predictable given the reliance of this Democratic administration on voters whose driving and gasoline patterns are centered on the oil industry.

The Biden people are explicit about the reasons for this rapid and capitulatory turnaround in American government policy,

"Biden wants Americans to have access to affordable and reliable energy, including at the pump, the White House officials said. As the U.S. economy recovers from the Covid-19 pandemic, it’s critical that energy supplies keep pace, which requires stable oil market conditions, they said."

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/biden-officials-urge-opec-members-to-find-compromise-solution-1.1625527

Edited July 6, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,464]

The feasibility of the EV revolution is being challenged already by rapid price increases in basic material inputs, for example in lithium and copper, expected to triple in price in the short term due to EV production increases.

Only massive government subsidies could make EVs affordable for middle class Americans, and poor Americans will have to continue driving second hand ICEs. Who will pay for the middle class EV subsidies? The middle class taxpayer, who else.

"Lithium price forecasts appear to assume the success of the EV revolution, and they have a good reason for this assumption—namely, strong government support for EV sales. However, as Gangfeng Lithium’s Wang Xiaoshen noted in his talk with Bloomberg, there is always a possibility that EV takeup will be slower than expected.

This possibility is becoming increasingly distinct exactly because of the surge in the prices of things like lithium and copper, which are used in the construction of EVs. The higher the raw materials, the higher the price of the finished product and although pro-net-zero governments have been very generous with EV subsidies, perhaps they would eventually draw a line somewhere. If EVs get more expensive, buyers will have less incentive to switch to an EV from their gasoline cars and the EV revolution will stumble until prices fall back down."

https://oilprice.com/Metals/Commodities/A-Permanent-Lithium-Shortage-Is-Looming.html

Edited July 7, 2021 by Ecocharger