GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Rob Plant + 2,652]

20 minutes ago, AlBub said:

There are places I drive where I would sorely hate to depend on electricity, but I sure would like it for some of the smaller trips. There is definitely a place for both, If I was in the city, I would almost certainly prefer, EV. Little to expensive to have both, so I, like many others, have to stick with the one that goes everywhere. EV's would be, and I am sure are, be awesome for errand type trips in cities, and occasionally out here too.

Hybrids are perfect for both to be honest

I still have range anxiety so havent gone full EV yet

If they start doing 500 miles on 1 charge and recharging takes 40 mins then yeah I'll get one, but not before.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

10 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

'We're not going to save the planet by bankrupting Britons,' says Braverman - as car makers hit out at government

https://news.sky.com/story/climate-change-home-secretary-suella-braverman-says-were-not-going-to-save-the-planet-by-bankrupting-people-12965383

I have no problem with this and they're right.

If people cant afford to buy EV's then it cant and shouldnt happen, however a richer population with a stronger economy means along with cost reductions through improved batteries and mass production should mean that the transition happens naturally and not mandated which is the right thing to do IMHO.

It's also is in line with most other Western countries, 5 extra years is not going to kill the planet.

By the time the bans go into effect EVs will be less expensive than ICE and will have 80%+ of the market share. There are many regulations on new cars and this is just another one. Try buying a new car without seatbelts or headlights. 

If the UK does not invoke protectionism you will be flooded with cheap Chinese EVs in just a few years. BYD is building a right hand drive factory and has ordered a large number of car carriers. China is already the number 1 car importer to the EU.

Most Western countries are introducing bans for 2035. The California ban begins fining companies in 2026 that don't sell 25% BEVs in the state and ramps the percentage until 80% BEV and 20% PHEV is reached in 2035. UK is right in line with most Western countries. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,426]

1 hour ago, AlBub said:

My source was the news at the time. Some of us actually have to work for a living and don't hang on to every source for people who have time like you obviously do. Do much data is change to fit political narratives that I will take the reality and facts of the day over your constantly revised "truths" you can cite much later. Besides the "okays" were a day late and a dollar short for many of us. 

I still love the picture of the helicopter deicing the birdbeater though.

So, you feel that the facts that I presented have been manipulated or constantly changed to fit a political narrative.

Your "feeling" is something I cannot, nor expect to,  change.

I examine the facts available, and make statements and claims based on facts.

Like I have implied before, my following of the event, and facts in the February 2021 event, and the multiple times it has actually been very close to reoccurring in ERCOT service territory afterwards, is of interest to me.  That is due to my extended intimate experience within the power industry,

There is a host of practical corrective actions Texas (not ERCOT, TEXAS!) can do to minimize recurrence.  Many of them are gonna cost big bucks.  Some of them will cost almost nothing.

I'll close with another fact, which I also agree is a great image...

https://gizmodo.com/viral-image-claiming-to-show-a-helicopter-de-icing-texa-1846279287

Edited September 20, 2023 by turbguy

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

17 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs are a miniscule percentage of the vehicle stock in California, and oil is the principal source for transportation fuel in California. You are off base in your stats, Jay.

The Governor of California relies on fossil fuels for his own personal transportation, so he has his hands deep in the oil pot....complete hypocrisy.

My stats are completely on base. As I have explained to you numerous times it is a very simple concept: All cars in the vehicle fleet must first pass through the new car market. Then they are in the fleet for about 24 years as the average age of a car in the US is 12 years. We are still early in the transition and first EVs will take over the new car market and then take over the fleet during the course of the following 24 years. 

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

14 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Why? Have you seen me opposing hydro-electric energy? My complaint is against expensive wind and solar electricity, of which I do not consume. The only exception being the lights planted on my garden which use solar batteries for convenience.

It is highly doubtful that your utility does not generate some of its electricity from wind or solar. Name your utility and we can investigate.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I thought oil+gas was booming according to Ecocharger?

Which is it then? Biden destroying the economy and therefore energy use or NOT?

Haven't you caught on? According to conservatives Biden is an incompetent, incoherent dawdling old fool who is the evil mastermind taking them down.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

 

 

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Most hybrids have different drive modes ie all electric, all FF or both and many have eco modes with reduced acceleration etc to make the battery last longer.

Why use gas at $3.90/gallon when you can drive on electric in the US from between 3.25 cents and 4.67 cents per mile?? Do you like wasting money?

In Europe you can more than double that cost per gallon, In the UK its currently the equivalent of $8.25/gallon! You save yourself $7 every 30 miles.

You are describing PHEV plug-in hybrids not HEV plain hybrids. No HEV has an all electric mode and all their electricity is generated by gasoline. It is important to make the distinction.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[AlBub + 14]

50 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Hybrids are perfect for both to be honest

I still have range anxiety so havent gone full EV yet

If they start doing 500 miles on 1 charge and recharging takes 40 mins then yeah I'll get one, but not before.

100% agreed

[turbguy + 1,426]

20 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It is highly doubtful that your utility does not generate some of its electricity from wind or solar. Name your utility and we can investigate.

I would rather ask which interconnection he resides in.  The Western Interconnect, the Eastern Interconnect, or ERCOT.  They ALL have wind, solar, hydro, batteries, pumped hydro (ERCOT excepted), coal, nat gas, distillate, biomass, and nuclear sources.  The Western interconnect is unique as it has a smidgen of geothermal.  The Eastern interconnect is unique as it has a smidgen of CAES.

You cannot tell which source shakes the "electron sea" back and forth in your home's conductors, as they ALL contribute.

Edited September 20, 2023 by turbguy

[AlBub + 14]

20 hours ago, turbguy said:

While I respect you were more imminently impacted by that event...

Please give me your source.

I gave you some of mine, and there's MUCH more below.

I hope yours was not Alex Jones.

ERCOT requested relief from environmental regulations on February 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM Central Time, FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY!

The EPA did not turn down ERCOT's request for relief from environmental regulations during the Texas February, 2021 power event. The authority to grant waivers from environmental regulations in the event of a power grid emergency lies with the Department of Energy (DOE).

The Department of Energy has the authority to grant relief from environmental regulations during an energy emergency. This authority is granted under the Defense Production Act (DPA), enacted in 1950 to give the President authority to mobilize the domestic economy in support of national defense.

The President delegates his DPA authority to the DOE.  The DOE can issue orders to businesses and other entities to take actions that are necessary to address the emergency, even if those actions would otherwise violate environmental regulations.

The DOE's authority to grant relief from environmental regulations is not unlimited. The DOE can only issue orders under the DPA if it determines that the emergency is "so grave that it requires the taking of immediate action." The DOE must also consider the environmental impacts of its orders and take steps to minimize those impacts to the extent practicable.

On February 14, 2021, ERCOT requested an emergency order from the DOE to allow certain power plants to operate at maximum levels and exceed federal limits on emissions and wastewater release.

The DOE granted ERCOT's request the same day.

The EPA issued a statement on February 15, 2021, saying that it was "aware of the emergency order issued by DOE" and that it would "work with DOE to ensure that any waivers granted are consistent with the intent of the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws."

The EPA does not have a veto over the DOE's authority to grant waivers from environmental regulations in the event of a power grid emergency.

AND.. FROM ERCOT ITSELF...

https://www.ercot.com/files/docs/2021/02/15/ERCOT_202_c__DOE_2021-2-14a.pdf

No, my info was not from Alex Jones. It was from real news, although nearly 3 years ago so I don't remember which. I do appreciate the info you put into your comment. One of the reasons I am on here is to learn stuff, not just argue. I am telling the truth about what I saw, and it sure looks like you are too, so maybe my source was incorrect. Pretty sure they were. 

One other problem, maybe the biggest, was that ERCOT members were from out of state, unless that was a lie too. Some came from places like Michigan. Who in their right mind living in Michigan would really worry about -2 degrees Fahrenheit?  There were so many things done wrong, it would be comical if it would not have been serious.

Anyway, thank you for the updated info. 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

51 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

By the time the bans go into effect EVs will be less expensive than ICE and will have 80%+ of the market share. There are many regulations on new cars and this is just another one. Try buying a new car without seatbelts or headlights. 

Most Western countries are introducing bans for 2035. The California ban begins fining companies in 2026 that don't sell 25% BEVs in the state and ramps the percentage until 80% BEV and 20% PHEV is reached in 2035. UK is right in line with most Western countries. 

Those bans will never happen. The climate science which supported them is currently imploding, and with that transpiring everything else goes down in the Green dream.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

33 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It is highly doubtful that your utility does not generate some of its electricity from wind or solar. Name your utility and we can investigate.

I trust you to investigate my jurisdiction like I trust you to investigate California.

My own awareness is sufficient. Around here hydro is the source. Wind is far away.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Polyphia + 71]

1 hour ago, AlBub said:

My source was the news at the time. Some of us actually have to work for a living and don't hang on to every source for people who have time like you obviously do. Do much data is change to fit political narratives that I will take the reality and facts of the day over your constantly revised "truths" you can cite much later. Besides the "okays" were a day late and a dollar short for many of us. 

I still love the picture of the helicopter deicing the birdbeater though.

So, no, you don't have any data--got it.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

A voice of common sense is beginning to emerge in Britain and the fragile walls of Green Panic are beginning to crack and crumble.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/20/uk-automakers-hit-back-as-reports-say-pm-sunak-will-dilute-green-policies.html

"Sunak said people needed more time to make the transition away from gas boilers and that households in some areas would get a delay on existing targets for the ban on new fossil fuel boilers. He also announced a 50% increase in cash grants under the government’s boiler upgrade program.

In a speech at Downing Street in which he sought to frame the new approach as in the interests of households, Sunak said he would announce a series of long-term decisions over the coming months, starting with a “new approach to one of the biggest challenges we face, climate change.”

“I believe deeply that when you ask most people about climate change they want to do the right thing, they’re even prepared to make sacrifices, but it cannot be right for Westminster to impose such costs on working people, especially those who are already struggling to make ends meet,” he said Wednesday. He also denied watering down targets despite the pushing back of key timelines.

Sunak said the U.K. had further to go to get charging infrastructure “truly nationwide” and needed to grow the automotive industry so it wasn’t reliant on imports from countries such as China."
 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

22 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

I trust you to investigate my jurisdiction like I trust you to investigate California.

My own awareness is sufficient. Around here hydro is the source. Wind is far away.

Well we can be sure you are clueless. Even the Tennessee Valley Authority uses solar and wind in their mix. As far as investigating goes why aren't you capable of showing us the energy mix from your utility? Either you are too dumb to do such research or are just making up your claim as usual.

It really is very simple, here is the TVA:

TVA’s Generating Assets Today

• 5 fossil plants (25 active units)
• 3 nuclear plants (7 units)
• 29 hydro plants (109 units)
• 1 pumped storage hydroelectric plant (4 units)
• 9 natural gas combustion turbine gas plants (87 units)
• 8 natural gas combined cycle gas plants (14 power blocks, 35 units [21 gas turbines, 14 steam turbines])
• 1 diesel generator site (5 units)
• 14 solar energy sites

TVA also acquires power from a variety of power producers, generally through power purchase agreements (“PPAs”), which as of September 30, 2020, those currently operating include:

• Non-renewable PPAs with the following types of facilities: 2 natural gas, 1 lignite, and several small diesel
• Renewable PPAs with the following types of facilities: 8 wind, 3 utility-scale solar, 1 landfill gas, 1 hydroelectric, and approximately 4,000 small-scale facilities contracted under TVA renewable programs

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

14 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

A voice of common sense is beginning to emerge in Britain and the fragile walls of Green Panic are beginning to crack and crumble.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/20/uk-automakers-hit-back-as-reports-say-pm-sunak-will-dilute-green-policies.html

"Sunak said people needed more time to make the transition away from gas boilers and that households in some areas would get a delay on existing targets for the ban on new fossil fuel boilers. He also announced a 50% increase in cash grants under the government’s boiler upgrade program.

In a speech at Downing Street in which he sought to frame the new approach as in the interests of households, Sunak said he would announce a series of long-term decisions over the coming months, starting with a “new approach to one of the biggest challenges we face, climate change.”

“I believe deeply that when you ask most people about climate change they want to do the right thing, they’re even prepared to make sacrifices, but it cannot be right for Westminster to impose such costs on working people, especially those who are already struggling to make ends meet,” he said Wednesday. He also denied watering down targets despite the pushing back of key timelines.

Sunak said the U.K. had further to go to get charging infrastructure “truly nationwide” and needed to grow the automotive industry so it wasn’t reliant on imports from countries such as China."
 

This will be short lived. Labour will take over the government in January 2025.

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

15 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

This will be short lived. Labour will take over the government in January 2025.

You better think again, Jay. People are not as stupid as you think they are.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/Electric-Dream-On-Pause-UKs-Fuel-Car-Ban-Faces-Delay.html

"SMMT figures show the private share of the market for battery electric new cars has already fallen from more than a third (36.2%) in the first half of 2022 to less than a quarter (24.2%) during the same period this year."

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

9 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You better think again, Jay. People are not as stupid as you think they are.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/Electric-Dream-On-Pause-UKs-Fuel-Car-Ban-Faces-Delay.html

Again, that is the conservatives doing this. Industry says they don't want the delay so it is just the oil companies. It will all change in Jan. 2025 when Labour is elected.

Besides, the actual UK ICE ban isn't until 2035. From 2030 to 35 hybrids are still allowed.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Again, that is the conservatives doing this. Industry says they don't want the delay so it is just the oil companies. It will all change in Jan. 2025 when Labour is elected.

Besides, the actual UK ICE ban isn't until 2035. From 2030 to 35 hybrids are still allowed.

The bans themselves are worthless, they can be moved on a whim by the government as they were today. I doubt that any British government will want to deprive most of their citizens of individual transport, especially now that the science supporting climate panic is being exposed as fatuous.

Take a look at this,

"SMMT figures show the private share of the market for battery electric new cars has already fallen from more than a third (36.2%) in the first half of 2022 to less than a quarter (24.2%) during the same period this year."

British EV sales have already hit the brick wall of niche limit.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

Here is the evidence for the above claim.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/09/consumer-support-key-to-faster-and-fairer-ev-transition-as-market-enters-new-phase/

"While the shift was originally driven by private consumers, they have since been overtaken by fleets and business buyers. Following 2022’s removal of the Plug-in Car Grant – leaving Britain as the only major European market with no consumer EV incentives yet the most ambitious transition timeline – sales to private buyers have fallen from more than one in three, to less than one in four.^4"

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

12 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You better think again, Jay. People are not as stupid as you think they are.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Gas-Prices/Electric-Dream-On-Pause-UKs-Fuel-Car-Ban-Faces-Delay.html

"SMMT figures show the private share of the market for battery electric new cars has already fallen from more than a third (36.2%) in the first half of 2022 to less than a quarter (24.2%) during the same period this year."

That is total BS. Here are the real numbers from SMMT, BEV is up from 14% last year to 16.4% this year:

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

2 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That is total BS. Here are the real numbers from SMMT, BEV is up from 14% last year to 16.4% this year:

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

Jay, you are wrong again, here is a direct quote from SMMT,

"While the shift was originally driven by private consumers, they have since been overtaken by fleets and business buyers. Following 2022’s removal of the Plug-in Car Grant – leaving Britain as the only major European market with no consumer EV incentives yet the most ambitious transition timeline – sales to private buyers have fallen from more than one in three, to less than one in four.^4"

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The bans themselves are worthless, they can be moved on a whim by the government as they were today. I doubt that any British government will want to deprive most of their citizens of individual transport, especially now that the science supporting climate panic is being exposed as fatuous.

Take a look at this,

"SMMT figures show the private share of the market for battery electric new cars has already fallen from more than a third (36.2%) in the first half of 2022 to less than a quarter (24.2%) during the same period this year."

British EV sales have already hit the brick wall of niche limit.

 

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Here is the evidence for the above claim.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/09/consumer-support-key-to-faster-and-fairer-ev-transition-as-market-enters-new-phase/

Your reading comprehension fails you again. Your whopping evidence is that fleet sales of EVs has increased faster than private, from your evidence link:

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said:

 

Your reading comprehension fails you again. Your whopping evidence is that fleet sales of EVs has increased faster than private, from your evidence link:

Read again, Jay, you are wrong as usual.

"While the shift was originally driven by private consumers, they have since been overtaken by fleets and business buyers. Following 2022’s removal of the Plug-in Car Grant – leaving Britain as the only major European market with no consumer EV incentives yet the most ambitious transition timeline – sales to private buyers have fallen from more than one in three, to less than one in four.^4"

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, you are wrong again, here is a direct quote from SMMT,

"While the shift was originally driven by private consumers, they have since been overtaken by fleets and business buyers. Following 2022’s removal of the Plug-in Car Grant – leaving Britain as the only major European market with no consumer EV incentives yet the most ambitious transition timeline – sales to private buyers have fallen from more than one in three, to less than one in four.^4"

The numbers I provided are directly from SMMT. End of story,

What your blurb is saying is that fleet sales have increased faster than private sales.