GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

12 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Rob and I win on PHEVs decreasing total fuel reliance, which is what is relevant.The PHEV version of a vehicle is far less reliant on fuel than the ICE version. End of story. You are spouting stupid irrelevant nonsense and making a fool of yourself as you love to do. The ICE Jeep gets 17/23 MPG and the PHEV Jeep 4xe gets 49 MPG and has far more power you fool.

And let us be clear, you claim to be an economist but you are claiming that people use expensive gasoline instead of cheap electricity to accomplish the same task. Well that is economically idiotic. Yet again you prove you are not an economist.

ICE sales are not strong they are down month on month as the headline states and EVs are still growing faster YOY by a huge ratio.

All you can do is accept this reality or lie about it.

No, the point of our discussion was PHEVs increased use of fossil fuels, which you absolutely refused to acknowledge until I gave you the clear numbers.

Thank you for acknowledging defeat on this issue.

You are clearly a non-economist in spite of your claims, if you cannot understand that EVs have been hit harder than fossil fuel cars. EV unsold inventories are up by a fantastic increase.

Anyway, there is no such thing as a regular economics degree without an econometrics course, that is a compulsory subject for all economists. Sorry, Jay.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

The loonies are out of the bin, more crazy ideas without any substantial scientific support.

Truly pathetic. Fortunately the China and India leaders still have some modicum of common sense.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Future-of-Fossil-Fuels-in-the-Spotlight-at-COP28-Climate-Summit.html

"While the UN and environmental organizations are pushing for language in the final statement to include a timeline on the phase-out of fossil fuels, some of the biggest carbon emitters, including China and India, which continue to rely on coal and boost its production and use, are unlikely to endorse a phase-out of fossil fuels. "

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 555]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

 

Truly pathetic. Fortunately the China and India leaders still have some modicum of common sense.

Do you think those nations have good air quality?  Be honest.

Aim for better, or you could move there and enjoy their pollution.

https://www.iqair.com/ca/china

https://www.iqair.com/ca/india

Real common sense says do not inhale smoke.

Edited November 29, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

43 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Do you think those nations have good air quality?  Be honest.

Aim for better, or you could move there and enjoy their pollution.

https://www.iqair.com/ca/china

https://www.iqair.com/ca/india

Real common sense says do not inhale smoke.

CO2 is not a pollutant, and the new coal-burners will actually improve the toxic count.

Reality too much for you to handle?

[TailingsPond + 555]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

CO2 is not a pollutant, and the new coal-burners will actually improve the toxic count.

Reality too much for you to handle?

Did not answer the question. 

Do you think those nations have good air quality?

Reality too much for you to handle?  You know they have shit air but refuse to accept that fossil fuels are the cause even though it is well documented.

Edited November 29, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

Here is another political reality, the IRA is actually being leveraged as a White House  boondoggle to influence votes in Republican states.

Well, you can't criticize a President for just being a politician.

Not only is there no scientific basis for the climate initiatives in this Demo payout, the crass politics inherent therein is enough to spoil your dinner.

I guess if the Demos have embraced wild pie-eyed nonsense, they might as well try and get some political capital out of it.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/EVs-Become-Cash-Cow-For-Swing-States.html

"EVs have drawn the ire of virtually all leading GOP presidential candidates.

Of the $128 billion that has flowed into the domestic EV and battery manufacturing sector since the passing of the historic Inflation Reduction Act in August 2022, $48 billion, or more than a third, has gone to Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and Michigan.

An RMI analysis has found that Texas could receive $131 billion in IRA-linked investments in the current decade."

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 555]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

"EVs have drawn the ire of virtually all leading GOP presidential candidates.

 

Those are what we call losers.

Yes, the GOP has a losing problem (for them).

Edited November 29, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

8 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Those are what we call losers.

Yes, the GOP has a losing problem (for them).

I think that stopping that insane waste of money in the IRA, including the nonsensical EV craze, is a worthy cause.

I would not be seen in an EV. Even as a passenger. It would be an embarrassment for any educated person.

There are worthy causes that could use that money, and chasing chimerical bogeymen like CO2 is not one of them.

The Green craze is political pixie dust.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 555]

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

I think that stopping that insane waste of money in the IRA, including the nonsensical EV craze, is a worthy cause.

There are worthy causes that could use that money, and chasing chimerical bogeymen like CO2 is not one of them.

The money is staying in the country and providing jobs.  Note, "domestic EV and battery manufacturing sector."

They tax that income (and sales) and get some back.

What would you have the government spend more money on?  More guns?  Foreign aid? Welfare? I doubt it.

Edited November 29, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

3 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

The money is staying in the country and providing jobs.  Note, "domestic EV and battery manufacturing sector."

They tax that income (and sales) and get some back.

What would you have the government spend more money on?  More guns?  Foreign aid? Welfare? I doubt it.

You could spend the money on creating many more jobs for underprivileged people doing just about anything else, even digging holes and then filling them up again. That would be less damaging than EVs as a substitution for ICEs.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 555]

9 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You could spend the money on creating many more jobs for underprivileged people doing just about anything else, even digging holes and then filling them up again.

Government make work projects can be very successful (e.g. Hover dam).

Having people dig and refill useless holes is far more expensive than just giving them money.  You have to buy shovels, need supervisors, pay workers compensation when they inventively get hurt etc.  You are not looking at welfare economically, you are looking at it based on your ideologies.  You would want to see them dig holes as a form of useless work just to punish them even though it is more expensive. 

You are no economist; you do not use logic or put emotionless and empirical valuations on things.

Edited November 29, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

14 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Government make work projects can be very successful (e.g. Hover dam).

Having people dig and refill useless holes is far more expensive than just giving them money.  You have to buy shovels, need supervisors, pay workers compensation when they inventively get hurt etc.  You are not looking at welfare economically, you are looking at it based on your ideologies.  You would want to see them dig holes as a form of useless work just to punish them even though it is more expensive. 

You are no economist; you do not use logic or put emotionless and empirical valuations on things.

You have no sense of perspective. Hiring laborers with minimal equipment is cheap compared to the cost of misallocated capital investment in factories and machinery and redirecting the entire economy. You are joking? Or did you just skip economics?

Whenever market values and prices are redirected and distorted by government intervention, there is a major price to pay in terms of suboptimal output. That is just basic economics, which you obviously skipped Mr. Non-Economist.

The IRA is merely a political boondoggle aimed at swing states, it contributes nothing to any rational climate agenda.

Would you like me to give you a break, so that you do not show up on my radar for a while? It would give you time to collect your thoughts and recharge your mental batteries. You are beginning to diverge from reality.

I am thinking of your own need to refit.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 555]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You have no sense of perspective. Hiring laborers with minimal equipment is cheap compared to the cost of misallocated capital investment in factories and machinery and redirecting the entire economy. You are joking? Or did you just skip economics?

Whenever market values and prices are redirected and distorted by government intervention, there is a major price to pay in terms of suboptimal output. That is just basic economics, which you obviously skipped Mr. Non-Economist.

The IRA is just a political boondoggle aimed at swing states, it contributes nothing to any rational climate agenda.

Ok say I have 200 people who need jobs / assistance and I have a big budget.  Please provide a real example of what you would have them do.  It can't be completely useless work (which is illegal if tax money is spent).

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

1 minute ago, TailingsPond said:

Ok say I have 200 people who need jobs / assistance and I have a big budget.  Please provide a real example of what you would have them do.  It can't be completely useless work (which is illegal if tax money is spent).

 

 

 

Just digging holes and then filling them up again is less wasteful and destructive than spending trillions on misdirecting the economy. Not hard to see that.

I say, old fellow, would you like some time off to refit? I can take you off my radar for a while.

[TailingsPond + 555]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

Just digging holes and then filling them up again is less wasteful and destructive than spending trillions on misdirecting the economy. Not hard to see that.

I say, old fellow, would you like some time off to refit? I can take you off my radar for a while.

You just can't answer questions.

Do you think India and China have good air quality?

Why can't you give an example of a job you would have them do instead of digging useless holes?

 

[notsonice + 1,168]

47 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

I think that stopping that insane waste of money in the IRA, including the nonsensical EV craze, is a worthy cause.

I would not be seen in an EV. Even as a passenger. It would be an embarrassment for any educated person.

There are worthy causes that could use that money, and chasing chimerical bogeymen like CO2 is not one of them.

The Green craze is political pixie dust.

I would not be seen in an EV. Even as a passenger. It would be an embarrassment for any educated person.?????

Luddite

no one cares if your are seen in an EV......And your comments show you are not an educated person.............

You think people respect those who are driving clunkers ????????   guess again

 

Solar and Wind power are clean and you do not like them because?????? clean is not old school polluters?????

never understood why anyone would be against clean energy production......and the conversion from fossil fuels to electric...specifically getting rid of ICE powered anything

PS I worked underground coal , underground mines , open pits, chemical plants , refineries my entire life and I can tell you at every operation ......using cheap, and clean when available, electricity was never shunned by anyone........At the plants that had diesel power stations we always ran lines to power plants as fast as we could to get rid of the ICE plants as running ICE engines are the most expensive ....maintenance and cost of fuel etc. Always  used  electric powered  at every chance we could.

Only a Luddite would cling to an ICE vehicle  when PHEVs and EVs are available and with solar and wind to boot???? win win

Edited November 29, 2023 by notsonice

[notsonice + 1,168]

2 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

You just can't answer questions.

Do you think India and China have good air quality?

Why can't you give an example of a job you would have them do instead of digging useless holes?

 

if you smoke .......you can save money by living in China.......free crappy air ....no need to buy smokes

 

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

12 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

You just can't answer questions.

Do you think India and China have good air quality?

Why can't you give an example of a job you would have them do instead of digging useless holes?

 

Well, perhaps if I give you some time off, you can find the solutions to those very important problems.

You have no objection to joining my list of distinguished invisible posters? You will be in select company.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger

[notsonice + 1,168]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

Well, perhaps if I give you some time off, you can find the solutions to those very important problems.

You have no objection to joining my list of distinguished invisible posters?

ha ha ha ha ....when you place people on your ignore list .....you just become more ignorant

Enjoy the Green Transition....and enjoy digging and filling your imaginary holes....seems like you finally found a job that suits you.......

[Ron Wagner + 668]

China is the biggest solar, EV, and rare earth producer in the world. Also has possibly the most polluted air, earth, and water. Their economy is also failing while they suffer from an aging population and underemployment of their college graduates. The main reason is because of their communist dictatorship and central planning. Central planning is never as good as free enterprise with smaller government. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ron Wagner

[Ron Wagner + 668]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1729130662140293233.html#google_vignette

 

Thomas Massie

 Subscribe

@RepThomasMassie

Nov 27 • 5 tweets • 1 min read  Read on Twitter

 Bookmark  Save as PDF

Pastures can convert sunlight, animal waste, and CO2 into grass which is fuel for self propelled protein generating machinery we call cattle.

The protein this system generates is imminently digestible by humans with no post-processing other than cutting and optional cooking. 1/5 

Grass and cattle can regenerate and reinforce each other indefinitely in harmony with nature and with almost no human input, as evidenced by existence of this cycle with tens of millions of bison on the plains of North America before our intervention. 2/5 

Be wary of those who tell you this natural arrangement is inferior to a system using seed planters, sprayers, harvesting combines, diesel, pesticides, inorganic fertilizers, GMO crops, subsidies, sterile fields, and centralized multinational FACTORIES to produce FAKE meat. 3/5 

Disclosure: although grain-finished beef operations do rely on grass-fed cattle as inputs, they are distinct from grass-finished beef operations in that they do require significant use of fertilizer, fuel, infrastructure, and machinery to augment production of real beef. 4/5 

Instead of resigning ourselves to eating fake meat made in foreign factories, we should re-examine US government actions that have made smaller otherwise-sustainable farms unprofitable.

Pass the PRIME Act to allow American farmers to more easily sell healthy food locally. 5/5 

• • •

[notsonice + 1,168]

2 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1729130662140293233.html#google_vignette

 

Thomas Massie

 Subscribe

@RepThomasMassie

Nov 27 • 5 tweets • 1 min read  Read on Twitter

 Bookmark  Save as PDF

Pastures can convert sunlight, animal waste, and CO2 into grass which is fuel for self propelled protein generating machinery we call cattle.

The protein this system generates is imminently digestible by humans with no post-processing other than cutting and optional cooking. 1/5 

Grass and cattle can regenerate and reinforce each other indefinitely in harmony with nature and with almost no human input, as evidenced by existence of this cycle with tens of millions of bison on the plains of North America before our intervention. 2/5 

Be wary of those who tell you this natural arrangement is inferior to a system using seed planters, sprayers, harvesting combines, diesel, pesticides, inorganic fertilizers, GMO crops, subsidies, sterile fields, and centralized multinational FACTORIES to produce FAKE meat. 3/5 

Disclosure: although grain-finished beef operations do rely on grass-fed cattle as inputs, they are distinct from grass-finished beef operations in that they do require significant use of fertilizer, fuel, infrastructure, and machinery to augment production of real beef. 4/5 

Instead of resigning ourselves to eating fake meat made in foreign factories, we should re-examine US government actions that have made smaller otherwise-sustainable farms unprofitable.

Pass the PRIME Act to allow American farmers to more easily sell healthy food locally. 5/5 

• • •

no problem with beef .....enjoy a good steak....yep I know they are methane emitters....same as many of the old farts I know........

 

Farming and Ranching has undergoing its own redo now......no till farming was shunned now it is the norm

Fertilizer is going green using green ammonia  ....manure spreading practices are changing

times are changing

Cattle on carbohydrate -rich diets with high intake will produce less methane as a percentage of dietary gross energy. Grinding and pelleting of forages increases passage rate and reduces methane emitted by the animal.

 

Ways to Reduce Methane Production in Cattle - UNL Beef

 

United States Environmental Protection Agency (.gov)

https://www.epa.gov › agstar › practices-reduce-metha...

 

 

 

One option to decrease storage time is to apply the manure to the land consistently during periods of good weather and soil conditions. Daily spreading of ...

 

‎Composting · ‎Manure Drying Practices · ‎Compost Bedded Pack Barns

 

 

Reuters

https://www.reuters.com › business › environment › clim...

 

 

 

Aug 8, 2023 — The arrival of commercially available genetics to produce dairy cattle that emit less methane could help reduce one of the biggest sources of ...

 

[TailingsPond + 555]

41 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

 

You have no objection to joining my list of distinguished invisible posters? You will be in select company.

Not at all, if you want to capitulate that is your prerogative.  However, do not be confused, you would be accepting defeat.

Run away in shame like most of the cult has.

Edited November 29, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Rob Plant + 2,691]

4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

and the new coal-burners will actually improve the toxic count.

Improve the toxic count!

Well whoopee! You must prefer to live in a toxic environment than one that has clean air. Enjoy the various forms of cancer this will promote or the lung disease that not only prematurely kills the old but also children!

You surely know that China and India have some of the worst pollution/toxicity on the planet due to their use of FF and yet you laud the fact that the burners help it a little instead of looking at viable cheaper alternatives such as solar.

[Ecocharger + 1,400]

10 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Improve the toxic count!

Well whoopee! You must prefer to live in a toxic environment than one that has clean air. Enjoy the various forms of cancer this will promote or the lung disease that not only prematurely kills the old but also children!

You surely know that China and India have some of the worst pollution/toxicity on the planet due to their use of FF and yet you laud the fact that the burners help it a little instead of looking at viable cheaper alternatives such as solar.

Those are the old technology, the new is much better. I guess you did not know that?

https://netl.doe.gov/research/coal/energy-systems/gasification/gasifipedia/low-emissions#:~:text=Gasification-based processes for power,compared to conventional coal combustion.

 "gasification has inherent advantages over combustion for emissions control. Emission control is simpler in gasification than in combustion because the produced syngas in gasification is at higher temperature and pressure than the exhaust gases produced in combustion. These higher temperatures and pressures allow for easier removal of sulfur and nitrous oxides (SOx, and NOx), and volatile trace contaminants such as mercury, arsenic, selenium, cadmium, etc. Gasification systems can achieve almost an order of magnitude lower criteria emissions levels than typical current U.S. permit levels and +95% mercury removal with minimal cost increase.^2"

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ecocharger