GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

19 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Why are you promoting this graph as reality in batteries?  Buddy ol' pal, its the batteries from ONE company(WeLion), not batteries in general... learn to R-E-A-D.  In year 2000 I had in my products I was selling, Lithium polymer ~225Wh/kg cells.  Guess what highest is today.... ~250Wh/kg.  ~Zero change in 20+ years.   Costs have come down, Power Density has not gone anywhere.  Gosh golly gee, its almost as if chemistry hasn't changed any in 20 years. Ya don't say.   Now nano printed batteries have great potential, but... until one of them is actually SOLD, I won't believe it until then. 

Common man, this is just embarrassing. Company advertising is just cringe dude.

No, 20 years ago density of commercial lithium batteries was 150Wh/kg. It was NMC that allowed the jump over 200 and that tech was just being invented. NMC was commercialized in about 2005 and the jump in density is clearly shown on the graph. 

NMC cathode materials are historically derived from John B. Goodenough's 1980s work on lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO₂).^[15] The invention(s) of Li-NCM cathode material(s) occurred ca. 2000-2001 almost simultaneously and independently in four research teams

Here is a 304Wh/kg lithium battery that you can buy today:

 

Taking energy density to the extreme, the LR2170SS 6.0Ah cell reaches the pinnacle of high-energy density systems. By incorporating advanced conductive agents and highly stable electrolytes, energy density and performance soar. With a remarkable energy density of 304Wh/kg, it offers unparalleled endurance, catering to the strict energy density demands of mid-to-high-end customers. Among 21700 cells, it boasts the highest energy density. This versatile cell is applicable in areas such as two-wheelers, smart homes, and portable energy storage, fulfilling a range of expectations from diverse customer segments seeking cylindrical cells.

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I provided an entire post on why gasification is dead and a post on the minimal improvement in the Chinese coal tech. Try reading. Do you even know what the Chinese coal tech is called?

Where is your evidence that gasification technology has disappeared?

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

15 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

A 95% reduction is not a reduction?

You are my favorite comedian, Rob.

"China’s new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than anything operating in the United States.

China’s emissions standards for conventional air pollutants from coal-fired power plants are stricter than the comparable U.S. standards."

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/5/15/15634538/china-coal-cleaner

You continue to spout rubbish and embarrass yourself

From your own article which you probably didnt read (by the way its 6 years out of date!)

"of the 920 gigawatts of coal capacity in the country, 19 percent is ultra-supercritical, 25 percent supercritical, and 56 percent subcritical."

So only 19 per cent are "cleaner" but show me how much each does pollute then you will have how pollutive China's coal plants are.

I'll start you off below.

"China’s air pollution is still six times higher than World Health Organization guidelines"

Why dont you go and live their ECO if you love it so much, of yeah you probably dont want to shorten your life by 2.2 years which is what is happening!

They arent even using these new coal plants

China's new coal plants set to become a costly second fiddle to renewables | Reuters

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

15 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, it looks good.

 "lower criteria emissions levels than typical current U.S. permit levels and +95% mercury removal with minimal cost increase.^2"

^{The new Chinese coal plants are cleaner than anything in America.}

^{https://www.americanprogress.org/article/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/}

 

Eco if you did your research properly you would know that these are back ups for renewables and are stranded assets

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

14 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Already done in the US. Solar + Wind are more than twice Hydro.

But of course hydro isn't what we are competing against, it is a carbon free renewable. Solar + wind + hydro will  be more than natural gas. in a decade.

 

Blimey! In the space of 13 years coal has more than halved!

That is exactly what happened in the UK, but now we're at 1.2%

Last year FF made up only 35.6% , renewables 35.3% and others such as nuclear, hydro, imported via interconnectors + biomass 29.1% of the powergen mix

When we are generating mostly on NG the price per MWh and emissions doubles, give me more renewables every time!

Edited November 30, 2023 by Rob Plant

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

11 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Where is your evidence that gasification technology has disappeared?

I wrote a post on it a couple days ago that you refuse to go read.

To put it simply the technology is 50 years old, plants have been built and shutdown and plans cancelled. There are only a few still in operation worldwide today. There are no more under construction or planned anywhere in the world.

Gasification is dead, dead, dead!

Edited November 30, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

45 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I wrote a post on it a couple days ago that you refuse to go read.

To put it simply the technology is 50 years old, plants have been built and shutdown and plans cancelled. There are only a few still in operation worldwide today. There are no more under construction or planned anywhere in the world.

Gasification is dead, dead, dead!

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

22 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

 

Says the guy who doesn't know what profit or production is. Keep making a fool of yourself for us to laugh at.

[turbguy + 1,544]

22 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

I think for myself, so should you. 

I believe that everyone "thinks for themselves".

We just have conflicting thoughts about "truth".

Did you ever notice that when there is a large amount of agreement on a subject, that seems to become "truth", even though is may not actually be the truth?

Such as a jury finding one guilty, even though actually innocent.

Edited November 30, 2023 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

10 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

You continue to spout rubbish and embarrass yourself

From your own article which you probably didnt read (by the way its 6 years out of date!)

"of the 920 gigawatts of coal capacity in the country, 19 percent is ultra-supercritical, 25 percent supercritical, and 56 percent subcritical."

So only 19 per cent are "cleaner" but show me how much each does pollute then you will have how pollutive China's coal plants are.

I'll start you off below.

"China’s air pollution is still six times higher than World Health Organization guidelines"

Why dont you go and live their ECO if you love it so much, of yeah you probably dont want to shorten your life by 2.2 years which is what is happening!

They arent even using these new coal plants

China's new coal plants set to become a costly second fiddle to renewables | Reuters

Rob, the new China coal plants are cleaner than the new American plants. The old China plants will be retired and that will end the problem.

Relax.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Te Green Revolution is essentially over.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Last-6-Months-Have-Been-Devastating-For-US-Clean-Energy-Stocks.html

"A year after the introduction of the IRA: the sector has seen a sharp $30 billion decline in the value of its stocks over the past six months.

The report noted that the downturn highlights the significant challenges facing Biden's climate objectives.

Clean energy firms not only grapple with steep financing costs but also face hurdles in community acceptance, obtaining government permits and integration into an aging power grid."

Edited November 30, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Rob, the new China coal plants are cleaner than the new American plants. The old China plants will be retired and that will end the problem.

Relax.

There are no new American coal plants you dufus and America is retiring its old coal plants. They will all be gone in a decade.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Says the guy who doesn't know what profit or production is. Keep making a fool of yourself for us to laugh at.

Jay, you are the Class Clown of the Green brigade.

Keep it up, I am in stitches from your contortionist routine.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

16 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I wrote a post on it a couple days ago that you refuse to go read.

To put it simply the technology is 50 years old, plants have been built and shutdown and plans cancelled. There are only a few still in operation worldwide today. There are no more under construction or planned anywhere in the world.

Gasification is dead, dead, dead!

Where do you see the gasification technology has disappeared. Any new approach has initial introductory learning curves, just like EVs, which are old technology.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Where do you see the gasification technology has disappeared. Any new approach has initial introductory learning curves, just like EVs, whcih are old technology.

EV production continues to grow. There is no increased production of gasification plants .None are under construction or planned anywhere in the world. Prove me wrong.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Says the guy who doesn't know what profit or production is. Keep making a fool of yourself for us to laugh at.

Jay Jay..Jay  You are truly a psychopath..aside from that keep babbling to your hearts content. You give credence to...If his lips are moving...Well fingers in this case he's obfuscating...or something to that effect.

 

Why Is Nio Losing $35K Per Car As Chinese Imports To Europe Surge?

Chinese EV brands like Nio, XPeng, and others can afford to bleed money since the Chinese state is subsidizing them, NYT reports.

None of Nio's operations are profitable, though. The "secret" to Nio's success – and many other EV makers from China – is government backing. That is exactly what the EU has set out to prove with its probe into subsidy-backed Chinese EVs available in Europe.

With virtually limitless cash at their disposal, Nio and other Chinese EV makers can withstand big losses and keep growing.

https://insideevs.com/news/690533/why-is-nio-losing-35000-usd-per-car-as-chinese-imports-europe-surge/

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

Consumer Reports: EVs Are Less Reliable Than Gasoline Cars | OilPrice.com

Interesting article!!

Traded in Rav4 hybrid all wheel drive 2020 model for 2024 Hilander all wheel drive non-hybrid. Guess I am back to polluter status!!

Edited November 30, 2023 by Old-Ruffneck
add

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

58 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Jay Jay..Jay  You are truly a psychopath..aside from that keep babbling to your hearts content. You give credence to...If his lips are moving...Well fingers in this case he's obfuscating...or something to that effect.

 

Why Is Nio Losing $35K Per Car As Chinese Imports To Europe Surge?

Chinese EV brands like Nio, XPeng, and others can afford to bleed money since the Chinese state is subsidizing them, NYT reports.

https://insideevs.com/news/690533/why-is-nio-losing-35000-usd-per-car-as-chinese-imports-europe-surge/

 

From the article: BYD, China's electric car leader, is an exception among domestic EV makers, i.e. it is profitable. The company backed by Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway tripled profit to $1.5 billion in the first half of this year. Besides building plug-in cars, BYD also makes its own batteries.

BYD is bigger than all the other native Chinese EV manufacturers combined. They are the only one that matters.

NIO uses a dumb battery swap technology that requires massive capital investment and have almost zero sales in Europe. They are only available in 3 EU countries because of that. Last year they sold 1350 cars in Europe and this year it looks like they will be at 1600.

So try again, you are always good for a laugh.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Rob, the new China coal plants are cleaner than the new American plants. The old China plants will be retired and that will end the problem.

Relax.

They are nowhere near as "clean" as a gas-fired CC Plant.  Period!

You gotta MINE the coal, PROCESS the coal, MOVE that cleaned product to a plant, Move it around from the pile to the plant, pulverize it in a mill, blow it into the firebox, then collect, deal with, and dispose of the 5-10% by weight that doesn't burn (aka, ash). 

The real measures should be how much water, operational waste, pollutants, and CO₂ (for those believers and non-believers) is generated per KWh.

Who here has actually worked at a coal-fired plant??

Trust me, It is FILTHY!

[notsonice + 1,255]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Rob, the new China coal plants are cleaner than the new American plants. The old China plants will be retired and that will end the problem.

Relax.

The New China plants are clean as they will only output 10 to 20 percent of their nameplate capacity on an annual basis

 

If the coal plant never runs I call that a Green Coal Plant

ha ha ha ha ha......no output .....no pollution...very Green

[notsonice + 1,255]

19 minutes ago, turbguy said:

They are nowhere near as "clean" as a gas-fired CC Plant.  Period!

You gotta MINE the coal, PROCESS the coal, MOVE that cleaned product to a plant, Move it around from the pile to the plant, pulverize it in a mill, blow it into the firebox, then collect, deal with, and dispose of the 5-10% by weight that doesn't burn (aka, ash). 

The real measures should be how much water, operational waste, pollutants, and CO₂ (for those believers and non-believers) is generated per KWh.

Who here has actually worked at a coal-fired plant??

Trust me, It is FILTHY!

5 to 10 percent?????

more like 20 to 30.......only prepped coal would have a low ash content and you only prep coal for Met purposes

 

Chinamans coal is very dirty

In China, there is a classification for coal used to produce power. According to that classification (Wang F, Wu Z 2004), the coal in Wuhai mainly belongs to the Normal Inherent Ash Content Coal (Inherent ash 24%-34%) and Medium Sulfur Coal (Sulfur content 1%-3%)

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

5 to 10 percent?????

more like 20 to 30.......only prepped coal would have a low ash content and you only prep coal for Met purposes

 

Chinamans coal is very dirty

In China, there is a classification for coal used to produce power. According to that classification (Wang F, Wu Z 2004), the coal in Wuhai mainly belongs to the Normal Inherent Ash Content Coal (Inherent ash 24%-34%) and Medium Sulfur Coal (Sulfur content 1%-3%)

I am thinking of subbituminous  PRB coals, lowest sulfur (to meet acid rain requirements without to big a "muffler"), very popular throughout the USA.  There are still some cleaning steps at the mine to remove boulders and washing.  Hopefully no railroad spikes sneak their way in.  Pulverizing mills do not like them very much.  Then there's the ash fusion properties.  If you ignore those, a slug of sodium ash accumulates high in the boiler, grows to the size of a school bus, fails to the bottom slope tubes about 6-8 stories down, and then, what a mess......

.

If China is using coals that have THAT much ash content, gosh, what a lot of waste to deal with!  Think 1/4 of each rail car load is dumped somewhere.  At least it's not as high as lignite.

Edited December 1, 2023 by turbguy

[notsonice + 1,255]

32 minutes ago, turbguy said:

I am thinking of subbituminous  PRB coals, lowest sulfur (to meet acid rain requirements without to big a "muffler"), very popular throughout the USA. 

 

If China is using coals that have THAT much ash content, gosh, what a lot of waste to deal with!   At least it's not as high as lignite.

problem with PRB coals is low BTU and very high moisture 20 to 30 percent..........so to get any heat value (that gets you steam on the turbine side) you have to essentially boil away all the moisture which consumes much of the original BTU's. IE like burning green wood.........Essentially you are doubling the ash content on a BTU basis compared to Eastern higher sulfur coals which have much lower moisture (however much higher sulfur requiring a lot more scrub)

 

These days almost everything is scrubbed because of mercury

 

Thus PRB coals are so cheap .......just takes a hell of a lot more to generate the same amount of electricity as Eastern Coal

Miner Chinaman does not care so much about quality these days as the CCP calls for more tonnage..........IE they will burn essential 50 percent shale 50 percent coal........

 2022 Coal world wide did not exceed 2013/2014 in total energy value consumed....Chinaman is consuming more .....just higher ash/waste percentage in their coal

 

EcoChump thinks Chinaman is producing more electricity using coal in reality they just produce more ash.......

 

this is worth the read on the efforts (all failed) made to dry PRB

https://www.powderriverbasin.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Failed-coal-projects-2020-Final-small.pdf

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by notsonice

[turbguy + 1,544]

5 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Thus PRB coals are so cheap .......just takes a hell of a lot more to generate the same amount of electricity as Eastern Coal..

Yup!  I forgot to factor in the realistic BTU/lb content compared to Eastern coals.

BNSF and the UP loves to move it!

I worked a while at a plant that was dealing with the railroad who increased transport costs sky-high.  The plant's owner then build a coal-slurry PIPELINE from Cadiz, OH to the Lake Erie shore to fight the Railroad.  After a couple years of negotiations, the railroad conceded, and the Plant Manager took a 25#  sledgehammer to the drying facility's Control Room...

Edited December 1, 2023 by turbguy

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

12 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Rob, the new China coal plants are cleaner than the new American plants. The old China plants will be retired and that will end the problem.

Relax.

They are only there as back up to renewables! stranded assets like their massive overspend on housing tower blocks.