GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

12 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, you are the Class Clown of the Green brigade.

Keep it up, I am in stitches from your contortionist routine.

Show us those new USA coal plants then please 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

12 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

EV production continues to grow. There is no increased production of gasification plants .None are under construction or planned anywhere in the world. Prove me wrong.

You are dodging the question again.

Where do you see that gasification technology has disappeared?

EV technology is also very old, there is a growth curve in the development of any new technology.

And don't tell me that EVs developed without massive government involvement, that is patently false.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

28 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Show us those new USA coal plants then please 

I already quoted the newest American clean coal technology above , which is inferior to the recent Chinese clean coal technology, even without using gasification.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/

"China’s new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than anything operating in the United States.

China’s emissions standards for conventional air pollutants from coal-fired power plants are stricter than the comparable U.S. standards."

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

I already quoted the newest American clean coal technology above , which is inferior to the recent Chinese clean coal technology, even without using gasification.

Read before you speak.

No you didnt, you stated the "new" Chinese coal plants were a lot "cleaner" than the USA ones!

Now you are saying that the USA are building new coal plants with improved emissions with this new tech (gasification that is 50 years old), show us examples of where this is happening in America, that was my question which you dismally failed to answer.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Rob Plant

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

10 hours ago, turbguy said:

They are nowhere near as "clean" as a gas-fired CC Plant.  Period!

You gotta MINE the coal, PROCESS the coal, MOVE that cleaned product to a plant, Move it around from the pile to the plant, pulverize it in a mill, blow it into the firebox, then collect, deal with, and dispose of the 5-10% by weight that doesn't burn (aka, ash). 

The real measures should be how much water, operational waste, pollutants, and CO₂ (for those believers and non-believers) is generated per KWh.

Who here has actually worked at a coal-fired plant??

Trust me, It is FILTHY!

You are not on topic. We are comparing the cleanest American coal technology with the cleanest Chinese coal technology, even without gasification the Chinese is cleaner.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

12 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Rob, the new China coal plants are cleaner than the new American plants. The old China plants will be retired and that will end the problem.

Relax.

This is what you posted if youve forgotten already

Show us these new American gasification plants youre talking about, that was my challenge to you!

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

23 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Eco if you did your research properly you would know that these are back ups for renewables and are stranded assets

Read your own material, Rob.

"But it [China] was scarred by a record drought last year that slashed hydropower output, forcing factories throughout the southwest to shut down and raising concerns that power shortages could undermine its post-COVID economic recovery. The experience increased its determination not to be too reliant on the intermittent nature of wind and solar power and has made China the only major economy building new coal-powered plants."

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You are not on topic. We are comparing the cleanest American coal technology with the cleanest Chinese coal technology, even without gasification the Chinese is cleaner.

Yes and TurbGuy is saying they are incredibly dirty still! I think he used the term Filthy

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

11 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Consumer Reports: EVs Are Less Reliable Than Gasoline Cars | OilPrice.com

Interesting article!!

Traded in Rav4 hybrid all wheel drive 2020 model for 2024 Hilander all wheel drive non-hybrid. Guess I am back to polluter status!!

Of course, the electric craze is just that, crazy.

It makes no sense to drive electric, not even Jay drives electric.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Read your own material, Rob.

"But it [China] was scarred by a record drought last year that slashed hydropower output, forcing factories throughout the southwest to shut down and raising concerns that power shortages could undermine its post-COVID economic recovery. The experience increased its determination not to be too reliant on the intermittent nature of wind and solar power and has made China the only major economy building new coal-powered plants."

Good God man

Exactly! they had a drought so their massive hydro power plants (the largest power plant in the world is the 3 gorges) couldnt operate so they switched to coal until the drought was over!

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Three Gorges Dam Hydro Electric Power Plant, China (power-technology.com)

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

3 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes and TurbGuy is saying they are incredibly dirty still! I think he used the term Filthy

I could use the same word "filthy" to apply to a lot of things, like Green politics.

The point is that American coal standards are below China, even without using gasification.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Good God man

Exactly! they had a drought so their massive hydro power plants (the largest power plant in the world is the 3 gorges) couldnt operate so they switched to coal until the drought was over!

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Three Gorges Dam Hydro Electric Power Plant, China (power-technology.com)

And the Chinese have decided not to rely on hydro/wind/solar going forward, with huge increase in coal.

Thanks, Rob for that article.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

I could use the same word "filthy" to apply to a lot of things, like Green politics.

The point is that American coal standards are below China, even without using gasification.

Probably true and yet China's air quality because of these stations is still 6 times over the international acceptable standard and reduces the lifespan of every man woman and child by 2.2 years!

And you are promoting them! Well done!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

13 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

And the Chinese have decided not to rely on hydro/wind/solar going forward, with huge increase in coal.

Thanks, Rob for that article.

Sigh!

No theyre not and you know it

In 2020, China committed to have 1,200 GW of renewables capacity by 2030, but is on track to meet that goal five years early. China could have as much as 1,000 GW of solar power alone by the end of 2026, analysts say, out of 11,000 GW needed globally to meet Paris Agreement targets by 2030.15 Nov 2023

Explainer: The numbers behind China's renewable energy boom | Reuters

1200GW is how much potential coal power plant output they have.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Rob Plant

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

14 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Rob, the new China coal plants are cleaner than the new American plants. The old China plants will be retired and that will end the problem.

Cant you find any?

Hmmm wonder why

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

7 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Probably true and yet China's air quality because of these stations is still 6 times over the international acceptable standard and reduces the lifespan of every man woman and child by 2.2 years!

And you are promoting them! Well done!

No, Rob, you really are confused, the problems relate to older Chinese plants.

You math is off.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

9 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Sigh!

No theyre not and you know it

In 2020, China committed to have 1,200 GW of renewables capacity by 2030, but is on track to meet that goal five years early. China could have as much as 1,000 GW of solar power alone by the end of 2026, analysts say, out of 11,000 GW needed globally to meet Paris Agreement targets by 2030.15 Nov 2023

Explainer: The numbers behind China's renewable energy boom | Reuters

And coal projections are way up also, they go together for the reasons stated above. the unreliability of hydro/solar/wind.

And the problems with EVs in America show that a brick wall has been hit.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Consumer-Reports-EVs-Are-Less-Reliable-Than-Gasoline-Cars.html

"Earlier this week, a group of U.S. car dealers warned the Biden Administration that most U.S. car buyers aren’t interested in purchasing electric vehicles, incentives or not.

In a letter addressed to U.S. President Joe Biden, the group asks the Administration to pump the brakes on federal regulations that would require two-thirds of all vehicles sold in the United States in 2032 to be electric—because it simply isn’t what car buyers want, even with the current incentives.

“The reality is that electric vehicle demand today is not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships prompted by the current regulations. BEVs are stacking up on our lots,” the letter read in part."

"According to EV Voice of the Customer, the reason for car buyers’ reluctance to purchase EVs stems from the still high price of EVs---even with incentives—and the fact that most buyers don’t have a garage. Other concerns cited include insufficient charging infrastructure, energy grid instability, and critical minerals required in the manufacture of EVs batteries.

The group referred to the federal push as “Draconian,” recommending instead that the Administration “Allow time for the American consumer to get comfortable with the technology and make the choice to buy an electric vehicle.”

The letter acknowledged that the appeal of EVs will grow over time. "Early adopters formed an initial line and were ready to buy these vehicles as soon as we had them to sell. But that enthusiasm has stalled. Today, the supply of unsold BEVs is surging, as they are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships -- even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives, and generous government incentives.""

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

3 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

a group of U.S. car dealers

Yes "a group of car dealers" which represented 24% I believe Jay proved in an earlier post. Wow they managed to get nearly 1/4 of car dealers to agree so I guess 3/4 of them didnt!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

8 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You are dodging the question again.

Where do you see that gasification technology has disappeared?

EV technology is also very old, there is a growth curve in the development of any new technology.

And don't tell me that EVs developed without massive government involvement, that is patently false.

As I keep telling you it has disappeared from construction and planning worldwide which means it has no growth curve at all. That is the answer to your question.  What don't you understand you fool? 

China has built one small gasification power plant and that was in 2012. It was supposed to be expanded but that was cancelled:

https://www.gem.wiki/GreenGen_power_station

China has no plans to build anymore gasification power plants.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes "a group of car dealers" which represented 24% I believe Jay proved in an earlier post. Wow they managed to get nearly 1/4 of car dealers to agree so I guess 3/4 of them didnt!

It was actually less than 20%. So a classic 80/20 split. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,544]

5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You are not on topic. We are comparing the cleanest American coal technology with the cleanest Chinese coal technology, even without gasification the Chinese is cleaner.

OK, you have a point. 

Guess why China's are cleaner.

They are NEW!

...and they are STILL FILTHY.

(wait about ten years, when the facility degrades).

Edited December 1, 2023 by turbguy

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

No, Rob, you really are confused, the problems relate to older Chinese plants.

You math is off.

Still waiting for you to show us those "new" coal stations in the USA you were on about!

Are you still struggling to find any??

The new coal stations in China are less than 10% of the total coal powergen capacity! 

You are spouting nonsense and continue to embarrass yourself.

The most informed on here about coal stations is TurbGuy as he is the only one to have worked on them. You should take note of what he is telling you ECO.

[turbguy + 1,544]

As a matter of a balanced view, I would like to add some "pro's" for coal-fired power to reflect upon.

Pro's:

The fuel's cheap and available.

The fuel can be stored on site, which can provide security against "supply chain" interruption.

The plants can provide somewhat reliable baseload power, with limited turndown capability and limited ramping rates.

The technology to handle, burn it, and dispose of wastes is straightforward and mature.

Flue gas treatment systems (to remove particulates, SO₂ and NOX) are available if required.

Flue gas treatment systems to remove CO₂ are available (although I don't know what the owner does with it after extraction).

The plants already exist, with lifetime capabilities of production easily extended with enough money.

...and Boilermakers are really great fella's!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

 

 

3 minutes ago, turbguy said:

As a matter of a balanced view, I would like to add some "pro's" for coal-fired power to reflect upon.

Pro's:

The fuel's cheap and available.

The fuel can be stored on site, which can provide security against "supply chain" interruption.

The plants can provide somewhat reliable baseload power, with limited turndown capability and limited ramping rates.

The technology to handle, burn it, and dispose of wastes is straightforward and mature.

Flue gas treatment systems (to remove particulates, SO₂ and NOX) are available if required.

Flue gas treatment systems to remove CO₂ are available (although I don't know what the owner does with it after extraction).

The plants already exist, with lifetime capabilities of production easily extended with enough money.

...and Boilermakers are really great fella's!

Coal isn't so cheap anymore. It is double its historic average. And for a couple years it suffered huge shortages.

V

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

23 hours ago, turbguy said:

I believe that everyone "thinks for themselves".

We just have conflicting thoughts about "truth".

Did you ever notice that when there is a large amount of agreement on a subject, that seems to become "truth", even though is may not actually be the truth?

Such as a jury finding one guilty, even though actually innocent.

Why LIE?  Clearly you do NOT think for yourself nor do you believe anyone else can. 

If you DID, then you would not be posting that pure BS about news sources.  The only reason you would post this is for those people who you think MIGHT start to think for themselves and to chivvy them back into "line" for your point of view.