GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yep, he is terrified of having to actually stand behind his claims.

The Houthis are attacking the Red Sea, not Hormuz, so at most there could be a $10 increase. More likely $5.

Eco definitely said the price increase would be because of demand not a supply constraint that I have been explaining to him.

When was that? I remember quoting some predictions for 100, but I doubt that I endorsed them. Show me the quote.

And try and show us how that free fall in EV sales in Europe is consistent with your climate agenda. It looks like European demand for EVs has been satisfied, nowhere to go now but down.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:19 PM, Ecocharger said:

 

Oil demand is increasing like crazy and driving oil prices above $100. Enjoy, enjoy!

Here ya go. What is funnier is that you made your prediction on the very day oil peaked:

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

It looks like European demand for EVs has been satisfied, nowhere to go now but down.

Aha, so you are calling a peak. I will bookmark this so I can make fun of you in a few months.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

52 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Aha, so you are calling a peak. I will bookmark this so I can make fun of you in a few months.

Speaking to such issues...I do believe it was you boasting EV demand was up. When EV demand was down. How could such a brilliant economist miss the glaring oversight of legislative laws required compliance only to be followed by another gov't subsidy ending for business. Consumer demand fell by 14%.

Electric car sales to private buyers fall sharply

5th October 2023, 03:49 PDT

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders said sales to private buyers fell by 14%, but overall registrations of electric cars rose almost 19%.

 

As with electric cars, the growth in the car market has been driven by company fleets renewing their stock, with registrations up 40%.

Sales to private buyers grew 5%, but the market as a whole remains significantly smaller than it was before the Covid crisis

For company car drivers, electric cars attract a much lower tax bill than petrol or diesel models, and this has boosted their popularity.

But there are fewer benefits for private buyers.

The Plug-in Car Grant, which provided discounts on the purchase price of EV's and plug-in hybrids was withdrawn last year, while an exemption from vehicle excise duty for electric cars is due to end in 2025.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67017972

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Speaking to such issues...I do believe it was you boasting EV demand was up. When EV demand was down. How could such a brilliant economist miss the glaring oversight of legislative laws required compliance only to be followed by another gov't subsidy ending for business. Consumer demand fell by 14%.

overall registrations of electric cars rose almost 19%.

 

As with electric cars, the growth in the car market has been driven by company fleets renewing their stock, with registrations up 40%.

Sales to private buyers grew 5%, but the market as a whole remains significantly smaller than it was before the Covid crisis

For company car drivers, electric cars attract a much lower tax bill than petrol or diesel models, and this has boosted their popularity.

But there are fewer benefits for private buyers.

The Plug-in Car Grant, which provided discounts on the purchase price of EV's and plug-in hybrids was withdrawn last year, while an exemption from vehicle excise duty for electric cars is due to end in 2025.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67017972

 

What are you babbling about?

Your article clearly says EV sales were up. It does not matter who buys them. 

In the UK over half the people buy their cars through their company and it is called a fleet sale.

What is a fleet vehicle UK?

Fleet vehicles are cars or vans which have been leased or purchased by a company for their employees to use for business purposes, which they can pay for on a monthly basis – a bit like getting a car on finance.

https://www.jct600.co.uk/news/fleet-vehicles-explained/#:~:text=Fleet vehicles are cars or,getting a car on finance.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Here ya go. What is funnier is that you made your prediction on the very day oil peaked:

 

Yes, that was about three months ago. Stopped a little short.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Aha, so you are calling a peak. I will bookmark this so I can make fun of you in a few months.

You don't think that this is a local peak? You must be blind and deaf.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

What are you babbling about?

Your article clearly says EV sales were up. It does not matter who buys them. And do note that the UK ended their subsidy in June of 2022.

 

 

 

All the more reason why the decline in private sales for personal ownership is a serious problem, indicating a market boundary.

Here is another problem for EV personal sales,

"exemption from vehicle excise duty for electric cars is due to end in 2025."

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

31 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You don't think that this is a local peak? You must be blind and deaf.

HaHa that is very different than what you claimed.

As I said it is a short term downturn in the market. However it is still less than -10% so I was mistaken to call it a correction, at -3% it is only an adjustment. I am glad to see that you now agree with me. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

30 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

All the more reason why the decline in private sales for personal ownership is a serious problem, indicating a market boundary.

Here is another problem for EV personal sales,

"exemption from vehicle excise duty for electric cars is due to end in 2025."

So if your analysis is correct then it is a serious problem for ALL cars in UK as private sales are tanking across the board:

This is ALL UK cars:

Edited December 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

46 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

HaHa that is very different than what you claimed.

As I said it is a short term downturn in the market. However it is still less than -10% so I was mistaken to call it a correction, at -3% it is only an adjustment. I am glad to see that you now agree with me. 

No, it is down 3% YoY but clearly down drastically over the last three months. The July figure was 62% up YoY, so that is a long way to fall.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

30 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

So if your analysis is correct then it is a serious problem for ALL cars in UK as private sales are tanking across the board:

This is ALL UK cars:

That is not useful data, we need to see EV data and fossil fuel data separately.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

53 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

That is not useful data, we need to see EV data and fossil fuel data separately.

No we don't. Because it does not matter who buys the car. An EV sold is a petrol car that was not sold. In the UK over half the people buy their cars through their company and it is called a fleet sale.

What is a fleet vehicle UK?

Fleet vehicles are cars or vans which have been leased or purchased by a company for their employees to use for business purposes, which they can pay for on a monthly basis – a bit like getting a car on finance.

https://www.jct600.co.uk/news/fleet-vehicles-explained/#:~:text=Fleet vehicles are cars or,getting a car on finance.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

28 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

No, it is down 3% YoY but clearly down drastically over the last three months. The July figure was 62% up YoY, so that is a long way to fall.

You don't seem to know the difference between growth rate and total sales. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

An interesting read and where Europe is heading for energy security

https://www.h2inframap.eu/#introduction

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Yes, that was about three months ago. Stopped a little short.

Yeah just a little!

Then theres this

Analysts Say Oil Prices Unlikely To Hit $100 In 2024

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Analysts-Say-Oil-Prices-Unlikely-To-Hit-100-In-2024.html

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Households could use EV batteries to power appliances - but there are caveats

https://news.sky.com/story/households-could-use-ev-batteries-to-power-appliances-but-there-are-caveats-13034590

[TailingsPond + 1,008]

More digging out oil and refining gasoline nobody wants.  Gasoline demand / consumption was less than half of expected.

100% (2.7-1.2)/1.2 = 125% more gasoline inventory build than expected. 

Oil prices settle higher, but unexpected build in US crude inventories weigh (msn.com)

"U.S. inventories spring surprise build

Inventories of U.S. crude unexpected jumped by roughly 2.9M barrels in the week ended Dec. 8, confounding expectations of a draw of about only 2.3M (NYSE:MMM) barrels. 

Gasoline inventories, one of the products that crude is refined into, increased by roughly 2.7M barrels against expectations for a build of 1.2M barrels while distillate stockpiles rose by 1.5M barrels, compared to expectations of a rise of 496,000 barrels."

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:46 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

You don't seem to know the difference between growth rate and total sales. 

Show us the total sales, both EV and fossil fuels. That will show the drop from July to November in European EV sales.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:45 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

No we don't. Because it does not matter who buys the car. An EV sold is a petrol car that was not sold. In the UK over half the people buy their cars through their company and it is called a fleet sale.

What is a fleet vehicle UK?

Fleet vehicles are cars or vans which have been leased or purchased by a company for their employees to use for business purposes, which they can pay for on a monthly basis – a bit like getting a car on finance.

https://www.jct600.co.uk/news/fleet-vehicles-explained/#:~:text=Fleet vehicles are cars or,getting a car on finance.

Not relevant to this discussion, we need the breakdown in sales for  July to November this year to see the drop in EV sales.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Show us the total sales, both EV and fossil fuels. That will show the drop from July to November in European EV sales.

OMG!! You really don't know the difference between growth rate and total sales! So much for any claims you have about being an economist. November BEV sales were 30K higher than July.

In July 2023, new EU battery-electric car registrations substantially increased by 60.6%, reaching 115,971 units. Total July car sales= 851K

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-15-2-in-july-battery-electric-13-6-market-share/

In November 2023, EU registrations of new battery-electric cars surged by 16.4%, totalling 144,378 units. Total Nov car sales= 885K 

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-6-7-in-november-battery-electric-16-3-market-share/

Total car sales, the November increase over July was the 30k BEV units:

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[specinho + 470]

Ahheemmmnn......

Chilll......

60% increment to 116,000 units in July 2023 means

- in June, there was only

 72,500 units EV sold

over total 1,000,000++ cars sold? 😧

 

Pardon me.... We are at increasing trend of EV sold vs decreasing trend, yes? But the figure still not out of < 5% of global market share.....

Reminds me of those jokers at UN..... According to news clip last night, they couldn't come to consensus  to help people in gaza because of the term used. They are bothered which one of the below should be used:

a) cease fire in gaza for humanitarian aid to go through

b) humanitarian cease fire for aid to go through

c) temporary cease fire for aid to go through 

d) hold the fire for humanitarian aid to go through

e) temporary hold the fire for humanitarian aid to go through etc

 

If they are discussing permanent or temporary cease fire, so be it... But, it is about letting aids to go through.....😧😒

EV can be a solution to reduce air pollution in places where traffic congestion and flash flood are not of concerned.

In order to make it a popular choice, 

1. The price needs to be lower than norm or competitive enough

2. roads and town shed ought to be redesigned

3. quality needs to be high and durable enough

- mentioned before, there ought to be separate batteries powering 

i) assesories like light, brake, steering wheel, speedometer, status of car, radio etc. Lead acid is suggested. This aims to reduce damage caused by unexpected system hacking or system failure affecting brake and steering wheel etc. 

ii) body of car - whatever battery used, with aid of solar or without. Impact of flood and lightning should be calculated in to prevent potential short circuit or explosion... e.g. insulator from impact e.g. carbon casing, safety fiuz that cuts letric on potential surge, etc

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, specinho said:

Ahheemmmnn......

Chilll......

60% increment to 116,000 units in July 2023 means

- in June, there was only

 72,500 units EV sold

over total 1,000,000++ cars sold? 😧

 

Pardon me.... We are at increasing trend of EV sold vs decreasing trend, yes? But the figure still not out of < 5% of global market share.....

Reminds me of those jokers at UN..... According to news clip last night, they couldn't come to consensus  to help people in gaza because of the term used. They are bothered which one of the below should be used:

a) cease fire in gaza for humanitarian aid to go through

b) humanitarian cease fire for aid to go through

c) temporary cease fire for aid to go through 

d) hold the fire for humanitarian aid to go through

e) temporary hold the fire for humanitarian aid to go through etc

 

If they are discussing permanent or temporary cease fire, so be it... But, it is about letting aids to go through.....😧😒

EV can be a solution to reduce air pollution in places where traffic congestion and flash flood are not of concerned.

In order to make it a popular choice, 

1. The price needs to be lower than norm or competitive enough

2. roads and town shed ought to be redesigned

3. quality needs to be high and durable enough

- mentioned before, there ought to be separate batteries powering 

i) assesories like light, brake, steering wheel, speedometer, status of car, radio etc. Lead acid is suggested. This aims to reduce damage caused by unexpected system hacking or system failure affecting brake and steering wheel etc. 

ii) body of car - whatever battery used, with aid of solar or without. Impact of flood and lightning should be calculated in to prevent potential short circuit or explosion... e.g. insulator from impact e.g. carbon casing, safety fiuz that cuts letric on potential surge, etc

Good grief the growth percentage is year over year, not month over month, and they are for the EU not global!

Global plugin vehicle registrations were up 23% in September 2023 compared to September 2022, rising to 1,291,00 units. That’s a new all-time record. In the end, plugins represented 17% share of the overall auto market (12% BEV share alone).

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

OMG!! You really don't know the difference between growth rate and total sales! So much for any claims you have about being an economist. November BEV sales were 30K higher than July.

In July 2023, new EU battery-electric car registrations substantially increased by 60.6%, reaching 115,971 units. Total July car sales= 851K

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-15-2-in-july-battery-electric-13-6-market-share/

In November 2023, EU registrations of new battery-electric cars surged by 16.4%, totalling 144,378 units. Total Nov car sales= 885K 

https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-6-7-in-november-battery-electric-16-3-market-share/

Total car sales, the November increase over July was the 30k BEV units:

 

Oh Jay what on earth have you just done???

You have just demolished Eco's claim that EV sales have fallen off a cliff since July just like anyone with an ounce of economic understanding and half a brain already knew!

Cant wait for his rebuttal/deflection to try to dig himself out of this one!

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

This is deja vu all over again...we just saw this routine a few years ago.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/OPEC-Influence-Wavers-as-US-Shale-Roars-Back.html

"U.S. crude oil production reached 13.2 million barrels per day in September, surpassing previous forecasts.

Improvements in drilling techniques and technology have enabled higher production without increased spending or rig count.

The rise in U.S. production has forced OPEC to reconsider its strategies, as it may no longer be able to control prices effectively through production cuts."

Edited December 21, 2023 by Ecocharger