Ron Wagner + 706 January 10 https://www.climatedepot.com/2023/12/31/morano-on-fox-business-go-after-the-entire-net-zero-agenda/ Morano on Fox Business: ‘Go After the Entire Net Zero Agenda’ By Marc Morano December 31, 2023 7:39 am https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/business/tom-olohan/2023/12/28/marc-morano-fox-business-go-after-entire-net-zero-agenda By Tom Olohan Climate Depot founder Marc Morano eviscerated leftist climate propaganda pushed by elites during an appearance on Fox Business Tuesday. Morano pointed out the undeniable damage caused by climate policies on a Dec. 26 segment of Fox Business’s The Bottom Line. During the segment, he reacted to the latest apocalyptic musings of South Park star Al Gore. Morano shredded elites who speculated about damage from “climate change” while ignoring damage from climate policy. The Climate Depot founder warned that Al Gore is pushing for a future where Gore “and his friends at the United Nations, at the World Economic Forum and now at the World Health Organization are going to control our food and agricultural decisions, our transportation decisions whether it’s the gas-powered car bans and, of course, all of our energy decisions.” Morano added, “So make no mistake, it’s the climate policy that poses a threat, not climate change.” Later in the segment he unequivocally urged viewers to “go after the entire net zero agenda.” Morano highlighted the insane fear-mongering spewed by climate activists like Gore. “When you see all those headlines and all the media at the end of the year, what they’re doing is they’re selling fear no different than what they did during COVID because when you’re afraid you make poor decisions and you allow authoritarians to take over. That’s exactly what we’re witnessing here with–juiced scientific claims as well.” He brought up Gore’s fear of a “billion climate refugees” noting that there may be migration but again pointed out that: “It’s climate policy not climate change that is going to drive migration.” He noted the catastrophic effects of such policies. “What we’re finding is people in Sri Lanka followed climate policy to the collapse of their government–their presidential palace was overrun. The farmers in the–Netherlands were subjected to climate policy, and they almost crushed all the small family-run farms.” Morano urged Fox Business viewers to question whether environmentalists’ goals should be implemented at all and asked viewers to question whether extreme measures like giving up the gas-powered car and eating meat are actually necessary. He encouraged listeners instead to reject the net zero movement entirely, “I’m arguing we need to challenge this entire premise. They are using climate fear to literally restrict and collapse energy, agriculture, transportation, go right after our freedom of movement.” Morano further demonstrated just how extreme the implications of the climate change movement really are when he referenced a study claiming that human breathing contributes to climate change. If it was not clear before, humans are one of the carbon sources that many of these elites wish to reduce. Morano also emphasized the undemocratic nature of this environmental movement decided by “executive orders, mid-level bureaucrats, corporate government collusion” and “executive agencies.” He called out billionaire leftists such as Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos by name for buying up vast amounts of American farmland. After detailing Bill Gates’ push for “synthetic lab-grown meat” and funding of crackpot “climate change” solutions, Morano compared the restrictions championed by the climate cult to elite support for COVID lockdowns. Morano added, “You have billionaire evil players at all these organizations, and they’re saying we can’t be saved unless we give over more of our freedom to these billionaires.” Watch: Morano on Fox: ‘We Never Had A Vote’ – Blasts Biden Admin For Bypassing Voters To Impose Green Agenda Share: 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 874 GE January 10 47 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said: https://www.electricrate.com/data-center/electricity-prices-by-country/ Please compare to other areas of the world. Starting with average electric rates, the U.S. households pay on average 14 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity. That might seem like a lot and of course, you might find a lot cheaper rate when you switch electric suppliers, but try to tell a fellow German or a Japanese what you pay for electricity and they might offer you a hearty congratulations – the electricity in those countries costs more than double! On the other hand, families in Canada, Mexico, or Egypt would find our electricity expensive. Cuban households would find it mad – the average electric rate there is only 1 cent. Not really, I currently pay 17.01 CND or 12.76 USD /KWh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: If the price is double what it should be all consumers suffer depending on their income. huh got any numbers???? price in the UK is double because of the price of Nat Gas in the UK the cost of electricity is based on the cost of Nat Gas....plain and simple....the UK pays alot because nat gas is not cheap in the UK compared to the US your posting BS from Fox shows you are not looking at facts.....you just believe in BS posted by Fox...which I would never trust on anything In 2022, the price of natural gas in Europe reached 40.3 constant U.S. dollars per million British thermal units, compared with 6.4 U.S. dollars in the U.S. The steep increase in prices is due to the fallout from the energy supply shortage which began in 2021 and further constraints resulting from the Russia-Ukraine ...Aug 25, 2023 Natural gas commodity prices U.S. and Europe 2024 - Statista Edited January 10 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 10 4 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: https://www.electricrate.com/data-center/electricity-prices-by-country/ Please compare to other areas of the world. Starting with average electric rates, the U.S. households pay on average 14 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity. That might seem like a lot and of course, you might find a lot cheaper rate when you switch electric suppliers, but try to tell a fellow German or a Japanese what you pay for electricity and they might offer you a hearty congratulations – the electricity in those countries costs more than double! On the other hand, families in Canada, Mexico, or Egypt would find our electricity expensive. Cuban households would find it mad – the average electric rate there is only 1 cent. Ron have you ever been to Cuba? I have! People live in run down huts, it is law in Cuba that if you drive a government vehicle (nobody can afford their own) you must stop at an intersection and pick up as many people as you can and drive them to work, people literally sit/lie down at intersections waiting for a lift to work and if none comes they go home again and dont go to work! You are comparing poverty stricken countries to that of the US, Japan or Germany who all rank easily in the top 10 wealthiest on the planet, of course the cost of living is more expensive!!! Apples and pears springs to mind! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 January 11 On 1/8/2024 at 5:08 PM, Rob Plant said: Just how are monitoring pressure gauges more frequently going to help in an earthquake? Answer :- they wont and you will have a massive oil spill Notsonice is right, an offshore manmade structure is just that regardless of whether its a wind turbine or an oil rig, if an earthquake hits then there will be far more ecological disaster from an oil spill than a wind turbine falling into the sea. You have not watched the movie? How do you think they could stay safe during moment of natural turbulence like that? They tried to manage the situation at first. When all effort failed and explosion occured, they ran for safety. Vibration of earthquake is certainly a worrying factor. But the strength might depend on how far the platform is from epic center of quake. The further away, the milder the damaging impact. Pressure change would be another factor. If it can be diffused, e.g. hasten speed of releasing pressure, the platform would be relatively safe. Yes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 January 11 (edited) On 1/10/2024 at 1:38 PM, Ron Wagner said: https://www.electricrate.com/data-center/electricity-prices-by-country/ Please compare to other areas of the world. Starting with average electric rates, the U.S. households pay on average 14 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity. That might seem like a lot and of course, you might find a lot cheaper rate when you switch electric suppliers, but try to tell a fellow German or a Japanese what you pay for electricity and they might offer you a hearty congratulations – the electricity in those countries costs more than double! On the other hand, families in Canada, Mexico, or Egypt would find our electricity expensive. Cuban households would find it mad – the average electric rate there is only 1 cent. There might be a difference between a privately owned company supplying electricity and government owned. Privately owned company has to pay all expenses themselves. Therefore, there is a minimum margin they need to set to break even. Mildly higher to profit. Government owned settings usually set up and paid for during colonialism. The costs paid by the people were usually nominal. Independence of countries granted them the right to manage the budget, sustain the functionality of these settings by having regular check up and maintenance. Shall upon retirement of pioneers, modern generation of management employs too many idling staff, purchases overpriced material, could not maintain things properly but change new ones with lower quality often, then, the costs incurred would be responsibility of the government. These unnecessary costs would not be transferred onto end consumers. The price remains relatively affordable or low for most. Edited January 11 by specinho 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 11 3 hours ago, specinho said: You have not watched the movie? How do you think they could stay safe during moment of natural turbulence like that? They tried to manage the situation at first. When all effort failed and explosion occured, they ran for safety. Vibration of earthquake is certainly a worrying factor. But the strength might depend on how far the platform is from epic center of quake. The further away, the milder the damaging impact. Pressure change would be another factor. If it can be diffused, e.g. hasten speed of releasing pressure, the platform would be relatively safe. Yes? what about the tsunami that comes and hits the rig? How far away from the eipcentre is "safe" for you? You watch a movie and then come up with this? Why dont you go and ask Hollywood if a rig is safe in an earthquake? Jeez! The root cause of the Macondo disaster Investigations found that the disaster was preventable, and was caused by failures in risk management, technology, mechanical equipment, procedures, spill response planning and human factors. There were failures in three categories of barriers: People (e.g., competency, leadership, culture) No mention of earthquakes or any other natural disaster!!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 11 Speccy I did find this which are now implemented post Deepwater Horizon disaster. How is stability of Oil & Gas wells assured during earthquakes or large hurricanes? All related (31) Sort Recommended Ryan Carlyle I'm an engineer at an oil companyAuthor has 1.5K answers and 16.7M answer views11y It varies with the type of installation, but the basic idea is that oil/gas facilities are designed for the worst-case weather expected in the lifetime of the rig or platform. With some deep-water facilities like Floating Production/Storage/Offloading (FPSO) vessels, the production facility may actually be deliberately disconnected from the sea floor and moved to a safer position until the weather passes. But this is less common than just engineering a sturdy enough system to survive a hurricane or cyclone -- here in the Gulf of Mexico the design standard is surviving a 1000-year storm without structural damage. In that kind of weather, all the wells are shut in and the platform is evacuated, but it should still be there after the storm passes. They accomplish this by putting the majority of the platform's mass underwater below the wave zone where it's less affected by bad weather. Even with that level of sturdiness, sometimes unexpected failures occur. For example, Hurricane Katrina knocked over several production platforms. When this level of catastrophic damage happens and the surface production tree is destroyed, the well is kept secure by the surface-controlled sub-surface safety valve. An SCSSV is installed in the well deep enough (~1000ft down) that nothing can possibly damage it from the surface. Usually this is controlled by a hydraulic signal so that it will failsafe closed if the production facility is damaged. This is a legal requirement in most countries for any oil or gas well that has enough reservoir pressure to flow on its own. Pipelines have similar failsafe valves installed at intervals so that a pipeline breach does not drain the entire line. These valves can be tied to pressure sensors so that a sudden decompression in the pipe will cause nearby valves to close and automatically isolate the breached section. Obviously you want to design the pipeline strong enough to withstand expected weather and seismic conditions, but if that fails there are systems in place to minimize the resulting spill. In terms of the underground equipment -- the actual oil well -- it is very rare to drill a well across an active fault zone. Not only is it dangerous (the well tubulars may be sheared by fault slippage), it's also very difficult to drill because the fault can cause massive drilling mud losses. We do drill across small faults and sutures pretty frequently -- but not the big tectonic type that will move much in earthquakes. As long as you're away from the active fault zone, earthquakes don't have much impact on the well itself. The steel pipes cemented in place as well casing are more flexible than the rock around it is, so the seismic waves don't do much. In a worst-case scenario, the casing can be crushed or burst. This may cause an underground blowout (reservoir pushing oil/gas into an aquifer) but that's very rare. So to summarize, we design oil/gas infrastructure for worst-case conditions, and then we make it highly fault-tolerant. It's incredibly rare these days to have a Deepwater Horizon style spill because there are so many layers of defense. Major accidents only really happen when multiple things go wrong at the same time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 11 And there's this for offshore wind turbines Interest in renewable and clean energy over the past decade has motivated immense research on wind energy. The main issues in design of offshore wind turbines in regions of recent development have been aero- and hydro-dynamic loads; however, earthquake is a design concern in seismic areas such as East Asia and Western United states. This paper reviews the state of practice in seismic design of offshore wind turbines. It is demonstrated that wind turbines are in particular vulnerable to vertical earthquake excitation due to their rather high natural frequencies in vertical direction; however, inclusion of the radiation damping could contribute considerably reduce the earthquake loads. Moreover, it is demonstrated how soil nonlinearity could lead to settlement and permanent tilting of offshore wind turbines on caisson foundations or tripods. Using these cases, the paper demonstrates that the design of offshore wind turbines for earthquake loading is driven by performance-based considerations. Clearly floating wind turbines would be fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 11 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Speccy I did find this which are now implemented post Deepwater Horizon disaster. How is stability of Oil & Gas wells assured during earthquakes or large hurricanes? All related (31) Sort Recommended Ryan Carlyle I'm an engineer at an oil companyAuthor has 1.5K answers and 16.7M answer views11y It varies with the type of installation, but the basic idea is that oil/gas facilities are designed for the worst-case weather expected in the lifetime of the rig or platform. With some deep-water facilities like Floating Production/Storage/Offloading (FPSO) vessels, the production facility may actually be deliberately disconnected from the sea floor and moved to a safer position until the weather passes. But this is less common than just engineering a sturdy enough system to survive a hurricane or cyclone -- here in the Gulf of Mexico the design standard is surviving a 1000-year storm without structural damage. In that kind of weather, all the wells are shut in and the platform is evacuated, but it should still be there after the storm passes. They accomplish this by putting the majority of the platform's mass underwater below the wave zone where it's less affected by bad weather. Even with that level of sturdiness, sometimes unexpected failures occur. For example, Hurricane Katrina knocked over several production platforms. When this level of catastrophic damage happens and the surface production tree is destroyed, the well is kept secure by the surface-controlled sub-surface safety valve. An SCSSV is installed in the well deep enough (~1000ft down) that nothing can possibly damage it from the surface. Usually this is controlled by a hydraulic signal so that it will failsafe closed if the production facility is damaged. This is a legal requirement in most countries for any oil or gas well that has enough reservoir pressure to flow on its own. Pipelines have similar failsafe valves installed at intervals so that a pipeline breach does not drain the entire line. These valves can be tied to pressure sensors so that a sudden decompression in the pipe will cause nearby valves to close and automatically isolate the breached section. Obviously you want to design the pipeline strong enough to withstand expected weather and seismic conditions, but if that fails there are systems in place to minimize the resulting spill. In terms of the underground equipment -- the actual oil well -- it is very rare to drill a well across an active fault zone. Not only is it dangerous (the well tubulars may be sheared by fault slippage), it's also very difficult to drill because the fault can cause massive drilling mud losses. We do drill across small faults and sutures pretty frequently -- but not the big tectonic type that will move much in earthquakes. As long as you're away from the active fault zone, earthquakes don't have much impact on the well itself. The steel pipes cemented in place as well casing are more flexible than the rock around it is, so the seismic waves don't do much. In a worst-case scenario, the casing can be crushed or burst. This may cause an underground blowout (reservoir pushing oil/gas into an aquifer) but that's very rare. So to summarize, we design oil/gas infrastructure for worst-case conditions, and then we make it highly fault-tolerant. It's incredibly rare these days to have a Deepwater Horizon style spill because there are so many layers of defense. Major accidents only really happen when multiple things go wrong at the same time. I like the bs babble........ It's incredibly rare these days to have a Deepwater Horizon style spill..... yet it happens and the aftermath compared to a wind turbine falling over.......no comparison on any scale Yeesh we all paid for the boobs on the Deepwater Horizon.... the biggest concern is when will it happen again not if.......... Edited January 11 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 11 4 minutes ago, notsonice said: I like the bs babble........ It's incredibly rare these days to have a Deepwater Horizon style spill..... yet it happens and the aftermath compared to a wind turbine falling over.......no comparison on any scale Yeesh we all paid for the boobs on the Deepwater Horizon.... the biggest concern is when will it happen again not if.......... Agree totally notsonice, just posting an oilman's perspective. Planes, trains, cars still crash although they are "safer" than ever before. Human error is something that is very difficult to eliminate, whether thats design, operational or maintenance. Yeah if a wind turbine falls over in the sea it might kill the odd bird or fish, if you have an oil spill it could decimate a whole ecosystem. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,459 DL January 11 (edited) Things are heating up, https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Oil-Prices-Surge-Following-Oil-Tanker-Hijacking-in-Gulf-of-Oman.html "At the time of the incident, the vessel was traveling to the Turkish port of Aliaga after loading crude from the Iraqi Basrah Oil Terminal. A spokesperson for Empire Navigation, the company managing the St. Nikolas, told CNBC that it lost contact with the vessel on Thursday, but could not confirm an unauthorized boarding. It was not immediately clear who boarded the oil tanker, but the latest incident shows that tensions in the waters in the Middle East are escalating. Early on Thursday, oil prices rose by nearly 2% amid intensified attacks on commercial shipping in the Red Sea this week. On Wednesday, Israel stepped up its attacks on Gaza and the Yemeni Houthis carried out what UK Defence Secretary Grant Shapps called the largest attack in the area yet. Per media reports citing U.S. Central Command, the U.S. and UK forces in the Red Sea shot down 21 drones and missiles on Tuesday alone." Edited January 11 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,459 DL January 11 4 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Agree totally notsonice, just posting an oilman's perspective. Planes, trains, cars still crash although they are "safer" than ever before. Human error is something that is very difficult to eliminate, whether thats design, operational or maintenance. Yeah if a wind turbine falls over in the sea it might kill the odd bird or fish, if you have an oil spill it could decimate a whole ecosystem. Rob, you are sounding like an alarmist. Give us some stats on eco-disaster caused by oil spills. Is it significant? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 11 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Rob, you are sounding like an alarmist. Give us some stats on eco-disaster caused by oil spills. Is it significant? Alarmist??? Is it significant???? Really?? Do I really need to do this for you? Ok here you go lazy On April 20, 2010, the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded off the Gulf Coast, killing 11 people and injuring 17. So began an 87-day oil spill that spewed 3.19 million barrels, or nearly 134 million gallons, into the Gulf of Mexico. It fouled the coasts of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas and launched a six-year long environmental and legal battle. The oil well was capped three months later, after 24/7 news coverage. But it left the region reeling from a disrupted coastal economy; a devastated ecosystem; the deaths of as many as 105,400 sea birds, 7,600 adult and 160,000 juvenile sea turtles; and up to a 51-percent decrease in dolphins in Louisiana’s Barataria Bay. Deepwater Horizon oil spill settlements: Where the money went | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (noaa.gov) The 10 Worst Oil Spills in History (businessinsider.com) Also it wasnt just an ecological disaster but a financial one to BP In June, 2016 BP announced offsite link that it had come up with its final estimate of the cost for the oil spill: $61.6 billion.20 Apr 2017 In fairness that $61.6 billion would give Footinmouth nearly 16.5 miles of subway lol Edited January 11 by Rob Plant 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polyphia + 83 LT January 11 25 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: In fairness that $61.6 billion would give Footinmouth nearly 16.5 miles of subway lol That last line made me spit out my coffee--too funny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 January 11 (edited) On 1/3/2024 at 1:05 AM, Rob Plant said: Yes that would be nice, I'm waiting. Well there is this...back to war issues. Now I maybe wrong here but gas has dropped to prewar pricing....long ago. Above all things considered..It looks to be permanent pricing. Energy Costs in UK Still Double the Historic Average By City A.M - Jan 10, 2024, 12:00 PM CST The average cost for electricity in the UK in 2024 is forecasted to be £113 per MWh, a reduction from previous estimates but still significantly higher than the £50 per MWh historic average. Britons are expected to continue conserving energy, with many reducing heating and reallocating funds from food and leisure to cover energy bills. Ofgem has issued warnings to energy suppliers regarding the resumption of forced meter installations, with some companies like Octopus Energy and Scottish Power expressing caution or opting out of the practice. The rise in electricity demand poses a significant hurdle, and without action, threatens to keep power bills elevated until the end of the decade and beyond.” https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Energy-Costs-in-UK-Still-Double-the-Historic-Average.html Edited January 11 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 11 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Things are heating up, https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Oil-Prices-Surge-Following-Oil-Tanker-Hijacking-in-Gulf-of-Oman.html "At the time of the incident, the vessel was traveling to the Turkish port of Aliaga after loading crude from the Iraqi Basrah Oil Terminal. A spokesperson for Empire Navigation, the company managing the St. Nikolas, told CNBC that it lost contact with the vessel on Thursday, but could not confirm an unauthorized boarding. It was not immediately clear who boarded the oil tanker, but the latest incident shows that tensions in the waters in the Middle East are escalating. Early on Thursday, oil prices rose by nearly 2% amid intensified attacks on commercial shipping in the Red Sea this week. On Wednesday, Israel stepped up its attacks on Gaza and the Yemeni Houthis carried out what UK Defence Secretary Grant Shapps called the largest attack in the area yet. Per media reports citing U.S. Central Command, the U.S. and UK forces in the Red Sea shot down 21 drones and missiles on Tuesday alone." are any of these ship owners sending checks to the US and UK governments for protection????? We subsidize the movement of goods and oil to the tune of 100's of billions of dollars yearly....What is the cost to the taxpayers to fund a Navy......... When is the last time the Navy was called in to protect offshore wind turbines?????? 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,459 DL January 11 3 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Alarmist??? Is it significant???? Really?? Do I really need to do this for you? Ok here you go lazy On April 20, 2010, the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded off the Gulf Coast, killing 11 people and injuring 17. So began an 87-day oil spill that spewed 3.19 million barrels, or nearly 134 million gallons, into the Gulf of Mexico. It fouled the coasts of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas and launched a six-year long environmental and legal battle. The oil well was capped three months later, after 24/7 news coverage. But it left the region reeling from a disrupted coastal economy; a devastated ecosystem; the deaths of as many as 105,400 sea birds, 7,600 adult and 160,000 juvenile sea turtles; and up to a 51-percent decrease in dolphins in Louisiana’s Barataria Bay. Deepwater Horizon oil spill settlements: Where the money went | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (noaa.gov) The 10 Worst Oil Spills in History (businessinsider.com) Also it wasnt just an ecological disaster but a financial one to BP In June, 2016 BP announced offsite link that it had come up with its final estimate of the cost for the oil spill: $61.6 billion.20 Apr 2017 In fairness that $61.6 billion would give Footinmouth nearly 16.5 miles of subway lol So you just picked one random disaster from 2010? Just random, right? You did not pick it because it just happened to be the worst ever disaster? Are you sure about that.? https://response.restoration.noaa.gov/oil-and-chemical-spills/oil-spills/largest-oil-spills-affecting-us-waters-1969.html "Thousands of oil spills occur in U.S. waters each year, but most are small in size, spilling less than one barrel of oil. Yet since the iconic 1969 oil well blowout in Santa Barbara, California, there have been at least 44 oil spills, each over 10,000 barrels (420,000 gallons), affecting U.S. waters. The largest of which was the 2010 Deepwater Horizon well blowout in the Gulf of Mexico." Okay, so why don't we see a lot more dangerous spills? There should be more of those 2010 examples showing up, that was about 14 years ago. As a matter of fact, Rob, I do not see any spill on this list since 2010....what happened to your thesis? 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 874 GE January 11 (edited) 16 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Rob, you are sounding like an alarmist. Give us some stats on eco-disaster caused by oil spills. Is it significant? Closed fisheries, closed beaches / ecotourism which is a large financial hit (billions) that is bore by people not in the oil industry (externality) Directly killed people and animals, and indirectly poisoned the ecosystem for decades to come. Those toxins will bioaccumulate and move up the food chain until you or your child consume that food and get all the concentrated toxins. Silly trying to explain anything to you because of you being purposely ignorant (troll). Common sense should tell you thousands of Km of contaminated shoreline is a ecological disaster. Then again you are the guy that claims breathing car exhaust is not a problem as the toxin load is "trivial" in your mind. You may want to treat the world like a garbage dump and leave it a toxic wasteland, I assure you most do not. I suspect you have not lived near a large oil spill. If the oil slick was on your land, or in the watershed you drink from, how would you feel then? Edited January 12 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 874 GE January 11 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Okay, so why don't we see a lot more dangerous spills? There should be more of those 2010 examples showing up, that was about 14 years ago. As a matter of fact, Rob, I do not see any spill on this list since 2010....what happened to your thesis? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills More than 50 large spills since 2010. Stop saying stuff you know is not true. If you searched for spills you know you would find many. Belligerent troll. Edited January 12 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 January 12 (edited) 17 hours ago, Rob Plant said: what about the tsunami that comes and hits the rig? How far away from the eipcentre is "safe" for you? You watch a movie and then come up with this? Why dont you go and ask Hollywood if a rig is safe in an earthquake? Jeez! The root cause of the Macondo disaster Investigations found that the disaster was preventable, and was caused by failures in risk management, technology, mechanical equipment, procedures, spill response planning and human factors. There were failures in three categories of barriers: People (e.g., competency, leadership, culture) No mention of earthquakes or any other natural disaster!!! 17 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Speccy I did find this which are now implemented post Deepwater Horizon disaster. How is stability of Oil & Gas wells assured during earthquakes or large hurricanes? All related (31) Sort Recommended Ryan Carlyle I'm an engineer at an oil companyAuthor has 1.5K answers and 16.7M answer views11y It varies with the type of installation, but the basic idea is that oil/gas facilities are designed for the worst-case weather expected in the lifetime of the rig or platform. With some deep-water facilities like Floating Production/Storage/Offloading (FPSO) vessels, the production facility may actually be deliberately disconnected from the sea floor and moved to a safer position until the weather passes. But this is less common than just engineering a sturdy enough system to survive a hurricane or cyclone -- here in the Gulf of Mexico the design standard is surviving a 1000-year storm without structural damage. In that kind of weather, all the wells are shut in and the platform is evacuated, but it should still be there after the storm passes. They accomplish this by putting the majority of the platform's mass underwater below the wave zone where it's less affected by bad weather. Even with that level of sturdiness, sometimes unexpected failures occur. For example, Hurricane Katrina knocked over several production platforms. When this level of catastrophic damage happens and the surface production tree is destroyed, the well is kept secure by the surface-controlled sub-surface safety valve. An SCSSV is installed in the well deep enough (~1000ft down) that nothing can possibly damage it from the surface. Usually this is controlled by a hydraulic signal so that it will failsafe closed if the production facility is damaged. This is a legal requirement in most countries for any oil or gas well that has enough reservoir pressure to flow on its own. Pipelines have similar failsafe valves installed at intervals so that a pipeline breach does not drain the entire line. These valves can be tied to pressure sensors so that a sudden decompression in the pipe will cause nearby valves to close and automatically isolate the breached section. Obviously you want to design the pipeline strong enough to withstand expected weather and seismic conditions, but if that fails there are systems in place to minimize the resulting spill. In terms of the underground equipment -- the actual oil well -- it is very rare to drill a well across an active fault zone. Not only is it dangerous (the well tubulars may be sheared by fault slippage), it's also very difficult to drill because the fault can cause massive drilling mud losses. We do drill across small faults and sutures pretty frequently -- but not the big tectonic type that will move much in earthquakes. As long as you're away from the active fault zone, earthquakes don't have much impact on the well itself. The steel pipes cemented in place as well casing are more flexible than the rock around it is, so the seismic waves don't do much. In a worst-case scenario, the casing can be crushed or burst. This may cause an underground blowout (reservoir pushing oil/gas into an aquifer) but that's very rare. So to summarize, we design oil/gas infrastructure for worst-case conditions, and then we make it highly fault-tolerant. It's incredibly rare these days to have a Deepwater Horizon style spill because there are so many layers of defense. Major accidents only really happen when multiple things go wrong at the same time. You have the answer in your quote: "We do drill across small faults and sutures pretty frequently -- but not the big tectonic type that will move much in earthquakes. As long as you're away from the active fault zone, earthquakes don't have much impact on the well itself." Pressure turbulence under earth crust and water turbulence during tsunami or huricane might not be comparable. Watched an sequel of event unfolded during earth quake living by an coastal area. 1. Water could be unusually still. 2. small fish of all kinds swam in a circle near sheltering rocks in fast, seemed panic pace. 3. Fluorest organism spiral up at night. Likely dinoflagelate or things living in darkness of deep sea. 4. Water receded far from shoreline. When water resumed, it hit hard on the wall and shoreline. Water was overspilled and eroding anything with crack and soil ahead. 5. Unusual Benthic like sea cucumber, sand dollar, sea star, sea urchin, ultra large shells, ultra large crab, and plenty fish washed ashore. One won't realize how high the water can hit until it approaching shoreline. Therefore, tsunami, created by earth quake, most probably have minimal impact on platform but severe damage onto things near the coast line. In addition, wave in the sea is likely mild beyond 100 meters in depth from the surface. Platform most probably has no problem withstanding it. Huricane, a ultra high speed wind, or cyclone, a spiral high speed turbulence, could create severe damage onto things on surface of water. Since both huricane and cyclone are usually generated by great difference between sea temperature and land, highly developed coastal areas and hot-dry inland might be affected more. Compared to pressure turbulence under earth crust, this turbulence is unpredictable. Besides that, pressure change is highly uncontrollable. Your quote mentioned they have done best to avoid areas like this with plenty improvision on safety measures. Edited January 12 by specinho 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 874 GE January 12 (edited) Even if there were no natural disasters whatsoever there would still be many oil spills. Do not underestimate human error or corporate greed. Oil industry operators have been caught numerous times hiding or overlooking known problems because the repairs or needed staffing would be expensive. When a large O&G company sells off a bunch of "assets" for cheap you can be assured they are actually unloading liability. Small companies will buy the cheap "asset" and gamble that it runs without problems; if they get lucky it is very profitable, if it fails they just go bankrupt and start again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster Edited January 12 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 12 14 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Well there is this...back to war issues. Now I maybe wrong here but gas has dropped to prewar pricing....long ago. Above all things considered..It looks to be permanent pricing. Energy Costs in UK Still Double the Historic Average By City A.M - Jan 10, 2024, 12:00 PM CST The average cost for electricity in the UK in 2024 is forecasted to be £113 per MWh, a reduction from previous estimates but still significantly higher than the £50 per MWh historic average. Britons are expected to continue conserving energy, with many reducing heating and reallocating funds from food and leisure to cover energy bills. Ofgem has issued warnings to energy suppliers regarding the resumption of forced meter installations, with some companies like Octopus Energy and Scottish Power expressing caution or opting out of the practice. The rise in electricity demand poses a significant hurdle, and without action, threatens to keep power bills elevated until the end of the decade and beyond.” https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Energy-Costs-in-UK-Still-Double-the-Historic-Average.html This why EWO If wholesale gas gets cheaper, why don't bills for households go down too? The short version is that they do get cheaper, just not right away. Wholesale energy prices got dramatically more expensive in 2021, which had a knock-on effect on domestic utility bills. Wholesale gas got more expensive, which meant that electricity was in higher demand, making that more expensive too. In the graph below ⬇️ you can see that increases in the orange line (your bills) rise after peaks in the green line (wholesale gas prices) This is because almost all energy companies buy their power through a process called hedging, which is buying energy in advance. Why are energy bills still rising when wholesale prices have come down? | One Utility Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 12 13 hours ago, Ecocharger said: So you just picked one random disaster from 2010? Just random, right? You did not pick it because it just happened to be the worst ever disaster? Are you sure about that.? https://response.restoration.noaa.gov/oil-and-chemical-spills/oil-spills/largest-oil-spills-affecting-us-waters-1969.html "Thousands of oil spills occur in U.S. waters each year, but most are small in size, spilling less than one barrel of oil. Yet since the iconic 1969 oil well blowout in Santa Barbara, California, there have been at least 44 oil spills, each over 10,000 barrels (420,000 gallons), affecting U.S. waters. The largest of which was the 2010 Deepwater Horizon well blowout in the Gulf of Mexico." Okay, so why don't we see a lot more dangerous spills? There should be more of those 2010 examples showing up, that was about 14 years ago. As a matter of fact, Rob, I do not see any spill on this list since 2010....what happened to your thesis? No I didnt reference just 1 which was the last one and the worst, I also posted this link in the same post The 10 Worst Oil Spills in History (businessinsider.com) Take from it what you will If you honestly think a wind turbine falling into the sea is worse than any of these oil spills ecologically then youre crazy, and that was the point notsonice was originally making to Specinho! You said this "Give us some stats on eco-disaster caused by oil spills. Is it significant?" And I gave you the data from the last oil spill, you can argue all you like but those are the facts and data that you asked for! and yes I think that pretty bloody significant, dont you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 12 (edited) 14 hours ago, Ecocharger said: So you just picked one random disaster from 2010? Just random, right? You did not pick it because it just happened to be the worst ever disaster? Are you sure about that.? https://response.restoration.noaa.gov/oil-and-chemical-spills/oil-spills/largest-oil-spills-affecting-us-waters-1969.html "Thousands of oil spills occur in U.S. waters each year, but most are small in size, spilling less than one barrel of oil. Yet since the iconic 1969 oil well blowout in Santa Barbara, California, there have been at least 44 oil spills, each over 10,000 barrels (420,000 gallons), affecting U.S. waters. The largest of which was the 2010 Deepwater Horizon well blowout in the Gulf of Mexico." Okay, so why don't we see a lot more dangerous spills? There should be more of those 2010 examples showing up, that was about 14 years ago. As a matter of fact, Rob, I do not see any spill on this list since 2010....what happened to your thesis? The world exists outside of US waters Eco, you still seem to really struggle with this point! Edited January 12 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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