Ecocharger + 1,474 DL January 18 (edited) 9 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Because production is high doesnt mean demand is high. You struggle to understand the difference it seems. Global oil prices and inventoriesThe Brent crude oil spot price averaged $78 per barrel (b) in December, a decrease of $5/b compared with November. Despite the latest round of OPEC+ production cuts announced on November 30, prices fell based on ongoing concerns about global oil demand growth and on rising global oil inventories, which we estimate increased by 0.8 million barrels per day (b/d) in the fourth quarter of 2023 (4Q23). We expect that OPEC+ production cuts will lead to global oil inventory withdrawals of 0.8 million b/d on average in 1Q24. After a period of relative balance from 2Q24 through 1Q25, we expect global oil inventories will build over the final three quarter of 2024 as slowing demand growth once again is outpaced by rising supply growth. Oil production grows in response to demand, that is why inventories are a key indicator for production changes. That is just how the industry works. So, yes, all-time high oil production is in response to growing world wide demand for oil. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/IEA-Raises-Oil-Demand-Outlook-for-2024-for-Third-Consecutive-Month.html "Global oil demand is set to rise by 1.2 million barrels per day (bpd) this year compared to 2023, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Thursday, raising its 2024 demand growth outlook for a third consecutive month. Although the IEA flagged today in its monthly report a significantly slower growth rate this year, due to “macroeconomic headwinds, tighter efficiency standards and an expanding EV fleet”, the Paris-based agency lifted its forecast for global oil demand growth by 180,000 bpd compared to the estimate from the previous report. In December, the IEA revised up its 2024 demand growth projection by around 130,000 bpd and expected this year’s demand growth at 1.1 million bpd." Edited January 18 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL January 18 6 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Good grief man, are you really that stupid? Total installed global capacity grew to 906 GW. This represents Year-on-Year growth of 9%. 2023 should be the very first year to exceed 100 GW of new capacity .. The USA has approx 1300GW of total installed powergen of which 141GW is wind or just under 11% of powergen. As of January 2023, the total installed wind power nameplate generating capacity in the United States was 141,300 megawatts (MW). This capacity is exceeded only by China and the European Union Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) U.S. utility-scale electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 20221 Data as of October 2023 Energy source Billion kWh Share of total Total - all sources 4,231 Fossil fuels (total) 2,553 60.4% Natural gas 1,687 39.9% Coal 832 19.7% Petroleum (total) 23 0.5% Petroleum liquids 16 0.4% Petroleum coke 7 0.2% Other gases3 12 0.3% Nuclear 772 18.2% Renewables (total) 901 21.3% Wind 434 10.3% Hydropower 255 6.0% Solar (total) 144 3.4% Photovoltaic 141 3.3% Solar thermal 3 0.1% Biomass (total) 52 1.2% Wood 35 0.8% Landfill gas 9 0.2% Municipal solid waste (biogenic) 6 0.1% Other biomass waste 2 <0.1% Geothermal 16 0.4% Pumped storage hydropower4 -6 -0.1% Other sources5 11 0.3% 1 Utility-scale electricity generation is electricity generation from power plants with at least one megawatt (or 1,000 kilowatts) of total electricity generating capacity. Data are for net electricity generation.2 Small-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) systems are electricity generators with less than one megawatt (MW) of electricity generating capacity, which are not connected at a power plant that has a combined capacity of one MW or larger. Most small-scale PV systems are at or near the location where the electricity is consumed and many are net metered systems. Smaller PV systems are usually installed on building rooftops.3 Other gases includes blast furnace gas and other manufactured and waste gases derived from fossil fuels.4 Pumped storage hydroelectricity generation is negative because most pumped storage electricity generation facilities use more electricity than they produce on an annual basis. Most pumped storage systems use fossil fuels or nuclear energy for pumping water to the storage component of the system.5 Other (utility-scale) sources includes non-biogenic municipal solid waste, batteries, hydrogen, purchased steam, sulfur, tire-derived fuel, and other miscellaneous energy sources. Global Wind Report 2023 - Global Wind Energy Council (gwec.net) Please go ahead and argue the numbers, but dont reply with your usual stupid memes, try actual up to date data to back up what you say. Coal is still King in terms of growing energy generation. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/The-Worlds-Coal-Fired-Power-Generation-Hit-a-Record-High-in-2023.html "As countries, especially in Asia, looked to meet growing electricity demand and ensure their energy security, coal use in power generation hit record highs. Per Ember data, global electricity generation from coal was 8,295 terawatt hours (TWh) between January and October, up by 1% compared to the same period in 2022." "Meanwhile, global coal exports also rose last year to more than 1 billion metric tons for the first time ever, per cargo tracking data by Kpler, cited by Reuters’s Maguire. In 2023, worldwide thermal coal exports hit 1.004 billion metric tons, rising by 6.6% from the prior year. Global coal demand likely rose by 1.4% in 2023 and surpassed a record-high level of 8.5 billion tons for the first time, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in a report in December. Moreover, the three top coal producers in the world – China, India, and Indonesia – are boosting production, which is reaching new highs, the IEA said in its Coal 2023 annual report." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 18 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Oil production grows in response to demand, that is why inventories are a key indicator for production changes. That is just how the industry works. So, yes, all-time high oil production is in response to growing world wide demand for oil. growth ???? 2023 matched 2019 no growth at all........then again you ignore reality growing ??? ...you got us all, growth of one one thousandth.....Point 1 percent, .1 percent....rounding error in my book...like buying 3 nines gold...999 fine gold.....999 parts gold one part copper. A dead cat bounce of epic proportions? nope a dead cat bounce that failed to meet any of your cries of booming oil demand. https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/oil-consumption-prices-revert-trend-kemp-2024-01-12/ Worldwide consumption averaged 101.1 million barrels per day (b/d) in 2023, narrowly beating the pre-pandemic record of 101.0 million b/d in 2019, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA). peak oil happened in 2019.....your 100,000 bpd dead cat bounce in 2023 and you are stating it is growing.........kinda like a short 70 year old guy putting on lifts and then getting his height measured....he tells everyone he is growing again in reality he is on the path to getting shorter and shorter until he dies.....same path that oil is on oh yeah and the EIAs prediction for 2023 was consumption growth of was 1.8 million bpd....ha ha ha What is the EIA oil demand forecast for 2023? Global oil consumption and inventories Global liquid fuels consumption in our forecast increases by 1.8 million b/d in 2023 and by 1.3 million b/d in 2024. Most of the expected growth in liquid fuels demand is in non-OECD Asia, led by China and India. Global oil markets - EIA Edited 19 hours ago by notsonice Edited January 18 by notsonice 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL January 18 The new forecasts are showing continuing growth in world oil demand to new all-time highs. https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-market-report-january-2024 "Global oil supply is forecast to rise by 1.5 mb/d to a new high of 103.5 mb/d in 2024. The Americas – led by the United States, Brazil, Guyana and Canada – will dominate gains in 2024, just as the region did last year. After a steep rise in output in 4Q23, global oil supply is expected to decline this month as a blast of cold weather..." "China will continue to lead oil demand growth in 2024, with its expanding petrochemical sector gaining an ever-larger share. At the start of 2024, the risk of global oil supply disruptions from the Middle East conflict remains elevated, particularly for oil flows via the Red Sea and, crucially, the Suez Canal. In 2023, roughly 10% of the world’s seaborne oil trade, or around 7.2 mb/d of crude and oil products, and 8% of global LNG trade passed through this major trade route. The main alternative shipping route around Africa’s Cape of Good Hope extends voyages by up to two weeks – adding pressure on global supply chains and boosting freight and insurance costs." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 18 21 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The new forecasts are showing continuing growth in world oil demand to new all-time highs. https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-market-report-january-2024 "Global oil supply is forecast to rise by 1.5 mb/d to a new high of 103.5 mb/d in 2024. The Americas – led by the United States, Brazil, Guyana and Canada – will dominate gains in 2024, just as the region did last year. After a steep rise in output in 4Q23, global oil supply is expected to decline this month as a blast of cold weather..." "China will continue to lead oil demand growth in 2024, with its expanding petrochemical sector gaining an ever-larger share. At the start of 2024, the risk of global oil supply disruptions from the Middle East conflict remains elevated, particularly for oil flows via the Red Sea and, crucially, the Suez Canal. In 2023, roughly 10% of the world’s seaborne oil trade, or around 7.2 mb/d of crude and oil products, and 8% of global LNG trade passed through this major trade route. The main alternative shipping route around Africa’s Cape of Good Hope extends voyages by up to two weeks – adding pressure on global supply chains and boosting freight and insurance costs." China will continue to lead oil demand growth in 2024????? and back to reality Recession in China is not letting up Steel production falling hard Shops everywhere are empty at the same time China oil usage is dropping only bright spot is china export oil products ,......displacing Russian production Bloomberg.com China's Oil Demand Growth Seen Cooling in 2024 as Recovery Fades China will see oil demand growth slowing next year, casting a pall over an already disappointing global picture for 2024, as the impact of... . 1 month ago Reuters For many in China, the economy feels like it is in recession SHANGHAI, Jan 18 (Reuters) - The night before China's civil service exam, Melody Zhang anxiously paced up and down the corridor of her... . 22 hours ago WION China`s Economic Downturn: A looming recession shadows aspirations and property markets In the bustling metropolis of Shanghai, the economic downturn in China is leaving a profound impact on the aspirations of its youth,... . 11 hours ago 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 19 22 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: You are using Cuba as your example. Another example of communist failure, just like China, Russia, Venezuela,Belarus, etc. Not a meaningful example at all. Check all the info on Joe Blogs on youtube.com He works with the latest figures from China and Russia. Seen a special documentary on Cuba. Someone empowered Fidel Castro to do what was needed. At the beginning, all went well. The country prospered, everything essential was free and Cuba produced the best medical personnel, scientists ( least known due to limitation of language used in publication), sportmen- women etc. Out of trust, Castro gave his men a free hand to do what was rightly set up. His loosening grip or over trusting might have been the reason solid system lost to flaws of men. Should he be a little more deligent in checking work done by his men regularly, his legacy could have been longer and his citizens luckies folks. 22 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: China is in a deep recession with massive unemployment and underemployment. Large corporations are moving on to more favorable countries with lower salaries. Communist dictatorships have proven to not be the most reliable places to invest. China is probably being sabotaged...... Banking crisis brewing. Financial and social stability might be crushed by real estate huricane that comes and goes quickly, leaving damaging aftermath and grinning saboteurs. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 19 15 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Oil production grows in response to demand, that is why inventories are a key indicator for production changes. That is just how the industry works. D'uh! Yes and inventories are rising and forecast to continue to risethrough 2024 which means theres oversupply!! I thought you were an economist? Here try reading it again! Global oil prices and inventoriesThe Brent crude oil spot price averaged $78 per barrel (b) in December, a decrease of $5/b compared with November. Despite the latest round of OPEC+ production cuts announced on November 30, prices fell based on ongoing concerns about global oil demand growth and on rising global oil inventories, which we estimate increased by 0.8 million barrels per day (b/d) in the fourth quarter of 2023 (4Q23). We expect that OPEC+ production cuts will lead to global oil inventory withdrawals of 0.8 million b/d on average in 1Q24. After a period of relative balance from 2Q24 through 1Q25, we expect global oil inventories will build over the final three quarter of 2024 as slowing demand growth once again is outpaced by rising supply growth 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 19 19 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: No one cares about capacity. COST/kWh is what matters which is directly tied to capacity factor and cost of wind resource geography ... and that 9% number is ~near zero from the rest of the world and ENTIRELY from China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_by_country and other useless countries which have VERY low capacity factors. Exception: Portions of S. America. Most of those "increases" are from idiots in EU/China with lower than 25% capacity factors... ROFL!!! Wind is useless unless for every GW of wind you have a GW of gas or pumped hydro storage installed.... or battery, and herein lies the rub, no one has batteries so unless said region has lots of NG or pumped hydro storage, wind is not being installed(not to mention they do not have the wind to begin with). Or in the case of the EU huge import terminals for NG and then LIE and say all those coal/nuc plants still running do not count.... EU: Huge NG import terminals to make their intermittent wind work with some hydro, but are now limited to bad wind resources in terms of initial cost USA: Huge NG production to make their intermittent wind work and still has cheap wind resources to corral and why its growing and will continue to do so for a SHORT period of time until the hard wall of not enough GRID transport capacity(almost reached). So, until gargantuan new power lines are installed to say-->Chicago East, wind capacity USA is nearly maxed China: ??? Unknown. They should have gargantuan amounts of pumped hydro storage(but its in the south and wind resources are in Central/North), and they claim they are developing it, but it is not integrated ***yet*** which means their wind capacity which is increasing by gargantuan leaps and bounds is currently being WASTED. A jobs program. So: Headlines vrs Reality So the FACT that nearly 11% powergen was from wind means its never used according to you? How does that work then? Again you dont back up what you say, instead rant on about costs but have no data behind what you say. If you read the below you will actually see that wind in general is cheaper than NG, and no you dont need NG back up for every GW of installed wind but even if you did it wouldnt be the preferred option as you would choose wind as its cheaper. Renewable Energy vs Natural Gas – How The Costs Stack Up In September, Lazard – an international financial and management consultancy – released its updated estimates for the levelized cost of different electricity generation technologies (LCOE). Observers were excited, principally because Lazard show wind and solar photovoltaic costs surprisingly competitive with natural gas. According to Lazard, utility-scale solar has an LCOE range of $72 to $86 per megawatt-hour (MWh), rooftop solar’s (residential, commercial, and industrial) is $126 to $265/MWh, wind’s is $37 to $81/MWh, and natural gas’s is $61 to $87/MWh. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Renewable-Energy-vs-Natural-Gas-How-The-Costs-Stack-Up.html#:~:text=According to Lazard%2C utility-scale solar has an LCOE,%2481%2FMWh%2C and natural gas’s is %2461 to %2487%2FMWh. Admittedly this is an old article but since it came out solar in particular has seen massive cost downs v NG. Your argument that it costs way more per MWh is incorrect. Oh and fertiliser, steel, aluminium smeting etc etc will be hydrogen before too long. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 19 (edited) 5 hours ago, specinho said: Seen a special documentary on Cuba. Someone empowered Fidel Castro to do what was needed. At the beginning, all went well. The country prospered, everything essential was free and Cuba produced the best medical personnel, scientists ( least known due to limitation of language used in publication), sportmen- women etc. Out of trust, Castro gave his men a free hand to do what was rightly set up. His loosening grip or over trusting might have been the reason solid system lost to flaws of men. Should he be a little more deligent in checking work done by his men regularly, his legacy could have been longer and his citizens luckies folks. China is probably being sabotaged...... Banking crisis brewing. Financial and social stability might be crushed by real estate huricane that comes and goes quickly, leaving damaging aftermath and grinning saboteurs. Catsro raped that beautiful country and turned its people into paupers! His personal wealth was $900M whilst his people were starving, living in huts with no electicity, running water etc. The people had to gather in the main square to be fed BS from his speeches as there was no media to tell it how it was. A true despot if ever there was one! It wasnt his men who he gave a free hand to, it was his men who did his bidding, of that there is no doubt whatsoever! https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/politician/president/fidel-castro-net-worth/ https://www.prosperity.com/globe/cuba#:~:text=Cuba is 104th in,the overall Prosperity Index rankings. Edited January 19 by Rob Plant 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL January 19 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: D'uh! Yes and inventories are rising and forecast to continue to risethrough 2024 which means theres oversupply!! I thought you were an economist? Here try reading it again! Global oil prices and inventoriesThe Brent crude oil spot price averaged $78 per barrel (b) in December, a decrease of $5/b compared with November. Despite the latest round of OPEC+ production cuts announced on November 30, prices fell based on ongoing concerns about global oil demand growth and on rising global oil inventories, which we estimate increased by 0.8 million barrels per day (b/d) in the fourth quarter of 2023 (4Q23). We expect that OPEC+ production cuts will lead to global oil inventory withdrawals of 0.8 million b/d on average in 1Q24. After a period of relative balance from 2Q24 through 1Q25, we expect global oil inventories will build over the final three quarter of 2024 as slowing demand growth once again is outpaced by rising supply growth Well, Mr. Non-economist, read the article carefully. Oil production and demand is growing to all-time highs. I guess you missed that. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/IEA-Raises-Oil-Demand-Outlook-for-2024-for-Third-Consecutive-Month.html "Global oil demand is set to rise by 1.2 million barrels per day (bpd) this year compared to 2023, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Thursday, raising its 2024 demand growth outlook for a third consecutive month. Although the IEA flagged today in its monthly report a significantly slower growth rate this year, due to “macroeconomic headwinds, tighter efficiency standards and an expanding EV fleet”, the Paris-based agency lifted its forecast for global oil demand growth by 180,000 bpd compared to the estimate from the previous report. In December, the IEA revised up its 2024 demand growth projection by around 130,000 bpd and expected this year’s demand growth at 1.1 million bpd." Edited January 19 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 19 10 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Well, Mr. Non-economist, read the article carefully. Oil production and demand is growing to all-time highs. I guess you missed that. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/IEA-Raises-Oil-Demand-Outlook-for-2024-for-Third-Consecutive-Month.html "Global oil demand is set to rise by 1.2 million barrels per day (bpd) this year compared to 2023, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Thursday, raising its 2024 demand growth outlook for a third consecutive month. Although the IEA flagged today in its monthly report a significantly slower growth rate this year, due to “macroeconomic headwinds, tighter efficiency standards and an expanding EV fleet”, the Paris-based agency lifted its forecast for global oil demand growth by 180,000 bpd compared to the estimate from the previous report. In December, the IEA revised up its 2024 demand growth projection by around 130,000 bpd and expected this year’s demand growth at 1.1 million bpd." Oil production and demand is growing to all-time highs.??? growing???? MORE BS......... a dead cat bounce off of 2019 is all you have reality Worldwide consumption averaged 101.1 million barrels per day (b/d) in 2023, narrowly beating the pre-pandemic record of 101.0 million b/d in 2019, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA). growth??????? flat in 4 years and you call it growth....you are a joke 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 19 20 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Well, Mr. Non-economist, read the article carefully. Oil production and demand is growing to all-time highs. I guess you missed that. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/IEA-Raises-Oil-Demand-Outlook-for-2024-for-Third-Consecutive-Month.html "Global oil demand is set to rise by 1.2 million barrels per day (bpd) this year compared to 2023, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Thursday, raising its 2024 demand growth outlook for a third consecutive month. Although the IEA flagged today in its monthly report a significantly slower growth rate this year, due to “macroeconomic headwinds, tighter efficiency standards and an expanding EV fleet”, the Paris-based agency lifted its forecast for global oil demand growth by 180,000 bpd compared to the estimate from the previous report. In December, the IEA revised up its 2024 demand growth projection by around 130,000 bpd and expected this year’s demand growth at 1.1 million bpd." What you post is a forecast!!! Any idiot can do that I remember someone once kept posting oil would be $100 by Christmas 2023 How did that pan out again??? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL January 19 (edited) 15 hours ago, Rob Plant said: What you post is a forecast!!! Any idiot can do that I remember someone once kept posting oil would be $100 by Christmas 2023 How did that pan out again??? You really have trouble with the English language, Mr. Non-economist. Read your own stuff, it is also a forecast. How could you not see that? In case you do not know, "expect" refers to a forecast. You know any more jokes, old bean? "We expect that OPEC+ production cuts will lead to global oil inventory withdrawals of 0.8 million b/d on average in 1Q24. After a period of relative balance from 2Q24 through 1Q25, we expect global oil inventories will build over the final three quarter of 2024 as slowing demand growth once again is outpaced by rising supply growth" Those are FORECASTS, old bean. Edited January 20 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: You really have trouble with the English language, Mr. Non-economist. Read your own stuff, it is also a forecast. How could you not see that? In case you do not know, "expect" refers to a forecast. You know any more jokes, old bean? "We expect that OPEC+ production cuts will lead to global oil inventory withdrawals of 0.8 million b/d on average in 1Q24. After a period of relative balance from 2Q24 through 1Q25, we expect global oil inventories will build over the final three quarter of 2024 as slowing demand growth once again is outpaced by rising supply growth" are you still waiting around for $100 oil????? you crowed in July of 22 that oil was going to be $130 in 2023 Jokes??? look in a mirror slowing demand growth ??? still waiting for demand to top 2019 Worldwide consumption averaged 101.1 million barrels per day (b/d) in 2023, narrowly beating the pre-pandemic record of 101.0 million b/d in 2019, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA). Edited January 19 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 20 15 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Well, Mr. Non-economist, read the article carefully. Oil production and demand is growing to all-time highs. I guess you missed that. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/IEA-Raises-Oil-Demand-Outlook-for-2024-for-Third-Consecutive-Month.html "Global oil demand is set to rise by 1.2 million barrels per day (bpd) this year compared to 2023, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Thursday, raising its 2024 demand growth outlook for a third consecutive month. Although the IEA flagged today in its monthly report a significantly slower growth rate this year, due to “macroeconomic headwinds, tighter efficiency standards and an expanding EV fleet”, the Paris-based agency lifted its forecast for global oil demand growth by 180,000 bpd compared to the estimate from the previous report. In December, the IEA revised up its 2024 demand growth projection by around 130,000 bpd and expected this year’s demand growth at 1.1 million bpd." Bunch of speculation, no real increase. They also noted that an expanding EV fleet is slowing growth. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 January 20 (edited) Looks like the EU is finally walking away from EV fever, it's quite apparent there wordsmithing defeat...In short it's over. With Germany in recession and Detroit reeling over ultra-cheap Chinese EVs, Beijing vows to crack down on ‘blind’ construction of new projects China is making automakers around the world nervous. Its domestic carmakers—helped by generous state subsidies—are churning out alarmingly inexpensive electric vehicles at a relentless pace, saturating their home market and threatening EV manufacturers overseas. But they might be getting carried away, a high-ranking Chinese official suggested on Friday. https://fortune.com/2024/01/19/china-electric-vehicles-government-forceful-measures-blind-construction-byd-tesla/ Edited January 20 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 20 1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Looks like the EU is finally walking away from EV fever, it's quite apparent there wordsmithing defeat...In short it's over. China is making automakers around the world nervous. Its domestic carmakers—helped by generous state subsidies—are churning out alarmingly inexpensive electric vehicles at a relentless pace, saturating their home market and threatening EV manufacturers overseas China is not part of the EU. China is making "automakers around the world nervous" because China is winning the race to corner the EV market. Detroit lost the auto manufacturing wars years ago (with ICE). Germany had several VW screw ups. Nobody is abandoning EV's just some companies are panicking that they missed the huge opportunity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 January 21 (edited) On 1/20/2024 at 3:43 PM, TailingsPond said: China is not part of the EU. China is making "automakers around the world nervous" because China is winning the race to corner the EV market. Detroit lost the auto manufacturing wars years ago (with ICE). Germany had several VW screw ups. Nobody is abandoning EV's just some companies are panicking that they missed the huge opportunity. How obtuse of me...I put up a paywall with little consideration toward you. Let me make amends by putting up a non paywall site. Have a read, I'm quite sure your intellectual poweress will enable you to grasp the fundamentals that are driving the end of China's dumping madness As a wise man once said I leave it with you...hmm caution is advised. With Germany in recession and Detroit reeling over ultra-cheap Chinese EVs, Beijing vows to crack down on ‘blind’ construction of new projects Steve Mollman EU probes Chinese subsidies In the weeks ahead, EU investigators will visit Chinese EV makers BYD, Geely, and SAIC as part of a probe into whether they have an unfair advantage thanks to government subsidies. Their visits—part of an EU probe announced in September and set to run for 13 months—will help determine whether the EU imposes higher tariffs to protect European carmakers. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/germany-recession-detroit-reeling-over-201412706.html Edited January 22 by Eyes Wide Open 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 21 On 1/19/2024 at 5:30 PM, Rob Plant said: Catsro raped that beautiful country and turned its people into paupers! His personal wealth was $900M whilst his people were starving, living in huts with no electicity, running water etc. The people had to gather in the main square to be fed BS from his speeches as there was no media to tell it how it was. A true despot if ever there was one! It wasnt his men who he gave a free hand to, it was his men who did his bidding, of that there is no doubt whatsoever! https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/politician/president/fidel-castro-net-worth/ https://www.prosperity.com/globe/cuba#:~:text=Cuba is 104th in,the overall Prosperity Index rankings. Out of curiosity, would be interested to know how have you made this conclusive impression. What have you seen before Castro and after? Found these two cubans or former cubans writing about Cuba from their memory. Not sure if they have covered much but share it here: 1. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/comandante-pre-castro-cuba/ - owing to sugarcane plantation, Cuba was one of the most prosperous countries, with very high gdp, during 1860s. - colonialialism has caused a) inequality between rural folks and urban, black and white etc b) two worlds existed between urban rich of cubans and non cubans c) chaotic political scene has been a constant plague On May 20, 1902, the birth date of the first Cuban republic, no leader had the power to harness the passions and ambitions unleashed by independence. The U.S. Congress passed the Platt Amendment, granting the U.S. the right to intervene militarily in Cuba to protect its interests there. 2. https://jacobin.com/2015/09/cuban-revolution-fidel-castro-casinos-batista ......Castro mentioned the need for an agrarian reform law that would have granted a) small allotments to landless peasants with compensation to the landlords, and b) demanded the participation of the workers in the profits (30 percent) of all large industrial, mercantile, or mining concerns, including sugar mills. c) would nationalize the electricity and telephone monopolies and d) confiscate the wealth of those who had misappropriated public funds. Therefore, i) problems have always been there since 1890s because Cuba does not have a capable leader especially post-independence. ii) By having overwriting right in protecting merely assets owned, US half hearted involvement in governing Cuba, without a care for the starving citizens, for as long as half a century, might have been the cause of revolution. iii) as son to a landowner, Castro might have done what he could for the people, based on kind consideration. Not of any form of idealism. Religious men, lawyers, ellites, are likely law albiding good citizens who follow instruction and opinion of majority in their respective closed group. If the rich power of the whole world stumbled by their own self regarded intelligence and decision, are we starting the world again with massiveness of all bad things? Are we letting wild grass taking over ? For the majority who are with them, Do not let the smallest, insignificant, innocent kid to you, be at the central of your ruin and endangerment because you can do every damage you want to it with everyone watching without interfering but bemused for some. Only a few who still have anger in them still have the last defending baseline for the right things to be done. WHen you choose to be so ruthless and indifference, remember, it will return to you and your kind in time. Do not blame anyone but your own decision to become so by multiple clones or not. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 21 16 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Their visits—part of an EU probe announced in September and set to run for 13 months—will help determine whether the EU imposes higher tariffs to protect European carmakers. Okay, they might need to increase tariffs to protect failing European EV carmakers. It says nothing about abandoning the transition. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP January 22 (edited) On 1/21/2024 at 4:43 AM, specinho said: Out of curiosity, would be interested to know how have you made this conclusive impression. What have you seen before Castro and after? Found these two cubans or former cubans writing about Cuba from their memory. Not sure if they have covered much but share it here: 1. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/comandante-pre-castro-cuba/ - owing to sugarcane plantation, Cuba was one of the most prosperous countries, with very high gdp, during 1860s. - colonialialism has caused a) inequality between rural folks and urban, black and white etc b) two worlds existed between urban rich of cubans and non cubans c) chaotic political scene has been a constant plague On May 20, 1902, the birth date of the first Cuban republic, no leader had the power to harness the passions and ambitions unleashed by independence. The U.S. Congress passed the Platt Amendment, granting the U.S. the right to intervene militarily in Cuba to protect its interests there. 2. https://jacobin.com/2015/09/cuban-revolution-fidel-castro-casinos-batista ......Castro mentioned the need for an agrarian reform law that would have granted a) small allotments to landless peasants with compensation to the landlords, and b) demanded the participation of the workers in the profits (30 percent) of all large industrial, mercantile, or mining concerns, including sugar mills. c) would nationalize the electricity and telephone monopolies and d) confiscate the wealth of those who had misappropriated public funds. Therefore, i) problems have always been there since 1890s because Cuba does not have a capable leader especially post-independence. ii) By having overwriting right in protecting merely assets owned, US half hearted involvement in governing Cuba, without a care for the starving citizens, for as long as half a century, might have been the cause of revolution. iii) as son to a landowner, Castro might have done what he could for the people, based on kind consideration. Not of any form of idealism. Religious men, lawyers, ellites, are likely law albiding good citizens who follow instruction and opinion of majority in their respective closed group. If the rich power of the whole world stumbled by their own self regarded intelligence and decision, are we starting the world again with massiveness of all bad things? Are we letting wild grass taking over ? For the majority who are with them, Do not let the smallest, insignificant, innocent kid to you, be at the central of your ruin and endangerment because you can do every damage you want to it with everyone watching without interfering but bemused for some. Only a few who still have anger in them still have the last defending baseline for the right things to be done. WHen you choose to be so ruthless and indifference, remember, it will return to you and your kind in time. Do not blame anyone but your own decision to become so by multiple clones or not. Yep there was wealth and poverty pre Castro, now just poverty! Go figure! There is wealth and poverty in every country in the world. Have you been to Cuba? I have and seen for myself. Do you wonder where Castro got his $900M wealth? and why the country he ran into the ground went from relative prosperity to 104th wealthiest country on the planet? Wonder also at the fact any mainstream media was banned and the only "news" the people had was from Castro preaching to 1 million in revolution square. Fidel Castro’s heritage: flagrant media freedom violations | RSF Crumbling buildings, poverty everywhere, unemployment widespread, alcoholism prevalent, a country that has so much ruined by 1 man's political will. Cubans are lovely people, what they have had to put up with is shameful. Your post suggest you like and back what he did, that includes violence and jail time towards any voice opposing his own! Think on that! You would not be allowed access to the internet or even a newspaper, you would not be writing your views on this web site or you would be beaten and jailed with no court case to answer. Edited January 22 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 January 23 16 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Yep there was wealth and poverty pre Castro, now just poverty! Go figure! There is wealth and poverty in every country in the world. Have you been to Cuba? I have and seen for myself. Do you wonder where Castro got his $900M wealth? and why the country he ran into the ground went from relative prosperity to 104th wealthiest country on the planet? Wonder also at the fact any mainstream media was banned and the only "news" the people had was from Castro preaching to 1 million in revolution square. Fidel Castro’s heritage: flagrant media freedom violations | RSF Crumbling buildings, poverty everywhere, unemployment widespread, alcoholism prevalent, a country that has so much ruined by 1 man's political will. Cubans are lovely people, what they have had to put up with is shameful. Your post suggest you like and back what he did, that includes violence and jail time towards any voice opposing his own! Think on that! You would not be allowed access to the internet or even a newspaper, you would not be writing your views on this web site or you would be beaten and jailed with no court case to answer. They were given free wifi. People were seen using internet freely on the street in the documentary. Embargo imposed, after size of land exceeding 1000 acres nationalized and consfication of wealth etc, might have created some negative impact. Plans might not have been smooth enough to meet the change. For example, majority of the people worked for the gov. Gov servants and families were given ration of free food, free housing. Embargo created shortage that messed up the plans. Not sure if it is relevant but, read it in a book <100 leaders of the world you must know> , all great leaders and their respective country, who supported Palestine Arafat in his fight, were ruined. Disintegration of Russia, Failure of Gaddafi, problematic reformation for Castrol etc. Therefore, it might be a multifactorial problem. Not caused by just one man attempts and decision to make things better for his country and people. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL January 23 Who wants an EV? They are useless in the winter months. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Cold-Weather-Has-Increased-Range-Anxiety-For-EV-Drivers.html "A study by the American Automobile Association (AAA) found that an EV can lose as much as 12% of its range when temperatures drop to 20 degrees Fahrenheit or -6 celsius. To make matters worse for EVs, charging times can double or even triple for older EVs amid low temperatures." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE January 23 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Who wants an EV? They are useless in the winter months. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Cold-Weather-Has-Increased-Range-Anxiety-For-EV-Drivers.html "A study by the American Automobile Association (AAA) found that an EV can lose as much as 12% of its range when temperatures drop to 20 degrees Fahrenheit or -6 celsius. To make matters worse for EVs, charging times can double or even triple for older EVs amid low temperatures." Yeah, like ICE vehicles are immune to the cold. The oil, coolant, belts, grease all stiffen up, batteries freeze up. You have to plug in a 600W block heater for 2-4 hours when it is really cold and that electricity doesn't even charge your battery. Even with block heaters ICE vehicle batteries are so prone to failure you probably have booster cables in your trunk. Heck, ICE vehicles are so unreliable in the cold people build little heated houses for them (garages). Edited January 23 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM January 23 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Who wants an EV? They are useless in the winter months. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Cold-Weather-Has-Increased-Range-Anxiety-For-EV-Drivers.html "A study by the American Automobile Association (AAA) found that an EV can lose as much as 12% of its range when temperatures drop to 20 degrees Fahrenheit or -6 celsius. To make matters worse for EVs, charging times can double or even triple for older EVs amid low temperatures." 12 percent loss??? that is it????........ICE vehicles get 12 percent less mileage per tank in cold weather....... yeah cold weather operation for a ICE vehicle sucks........warming up a car takes 15 minutes and the fuel mixture is rich ...wasting gas.... Do cars run rich when cold? When the engine is cold, the fuel won't evaporate properly, so what would normally be a correct mixture on a hot engine will actually be a weak mixture when cold. To overcome this, more fuel is added when the engine is cold to give a more ideal mixture for starting.Sep 29, 2015 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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