GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 4/7/2024 at 3:52 AM, Ecocharger said:

Well, of course that is nonsense. You need to consider the initial need for manufacturing emissions of CO2. And, no, those numbers given for the Norway comparison do not assume that all EVs were manufactured in one year. Not sure how you figured that.

Here is where the Norway calculations begin. EVs are not manufactured in Norway, so the CO2 emissions need to be factored in the country of manufacture.

"Norway imports all domestic EVs."

"As we discussed, EV manufacturing is incredibly energy-intensive,  mainly to build the battery. In Norway’s case, none of this additional energy is reflected in their domestic demand figures. China manufactures most lithium-ion batteries and 80% of all EVs. Coal accounts for 60% of their total energy supply."

That is where the numbers come from, comparing the entire fleets on the road today. The "years" calculation is for how many years are needed to reach equivalence with the huge initial outlay of CO2 emissions to manufacture the EVs. 

"Norway’s gasoline and diesel consumption fell by a meager 3,200 barrels per day or 50 mm gallons per year. Assuming 9 kg of CO2 per gallon of gasoline or diesel, Norway’s entire EV fleet mitigates a mere 450,000 tonnes of CO2 per year, compared with an upfront emission of 21 mm tonnes. In other words, it would take forty-five years of CO2 savings from reduced gasoline and diesel consumption to offset the initial emissions from the manufacturing of the vehicles. Since an EV battery has a useful life of only ten to fifteen years, it is clear that Norway's EV rollout has increased total lifecycle CO2 emissions dramatically. "

This is not rocket science, Einstein not needed to see this.

 

The more times you post that article the more ridiculous you appear

[TailingsPond + 1,013]

15 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Clearly you do not care: Its about your religion, not your "concerns".  If you did care, then Tire wear would be your #1 concern, not tailpipe emissions. 

I don't care because tire wear is not my number one concern? Too funny.  Grasping at straws.

An EV is heavier than the comparable sized ICE.  I assure you an ICE truck uses more up tires than a small EV.  Hence, we should regulate vehicle weight more closely to encourage smaller vehicles.  This would also help prevent road damage. Anyone using a pickup truck for one passenger and no load in a city should pay more for their stupid vehicle choice.  If it is used for work, great, if you just want to drive a Tonka truck like an adult child pay more.

Now compare replacing a set of tires to shooting off a single missile just for fun / practice (war games / training).  4 Million $ and a crap load of pollution from one shot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot

Cut the military in half and you can drive your dirty truck AND still have a huge military.

Edited April 8 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,485]

20 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes China makes the batteries I was showing how long it takes for the payback of those CO2 emissions.

Your 45 years is utterly ridiculous, you surely dont believe that?? Just typing it sounds blatantly stupid, get with reality and do some math!

The math is right there, Rob, recent data. Your math is out of date and fails to consider manufacturing emissions.

That SF6 link to the Biden administration gives no numbers whatsoever, what were you trying to prove with no numbers?

Your numbers from the National Grid promo are out of context, of course.

Check out this,

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49567197

SF6 is  "the most powerful greenhouse gas known to humanity, and emissions have risen rapidly in recent years, the BBC has learned.

Sulphur hexafluoride, or SF6, is widely used in the electrical industry to prevent short circuits and accidents.

But leaks of the little-known gas in the UK and the rest of the EU in 2017 were the equivalent of putting an extra 1.3 million cars on the road.

Levels are rising as an unintended consequence of the green energy boom."

"A study from the University of Cardiff found that across all transmission and distribution networks, the amount used was increasing by 30-40 tonnes per year.

This rise was also reflected across Europe with total emissions from the 28 member states in 2017 equivalent to 6.73 million tonnes of CO2. That's the same as the emissions from 1.3 million extra cars on the road for a year."

""We make measurements of SF6 in the background atmosphere," said Dr Matt Rigby, reader in atmospheric chemistry at Bristol.

"What we've seen is that the levels have increased substantially, and we've seen almost a doubling of the atmospheric concentration in the last two decades.""

"Developed countries are expected to report every year to the UN on how much SF6 they use, but developing countries do not face any restrictions on use.

Right now, scientists are detecting concentrations in the atmosphere that are 10 times the amount declared by countries in their reports. Scientists say this is not all coming from countries like India, China and South Korea.

One study found that the methods used to calculate emissions in richer countries "severely under-reported" emissions over the past two decades."

And Norway does not manufacture any EVs. That is why the numbers needed adjustment and show that EVs actually increase CO2 compared to fossil fuel vehicles.

"Norway imports all domestic EVs. As we discussed, EV manufacturing is incredibly energy-intensive,  mainly to build the battery. In Norway’s case, none of this additional energy is reflected in their domestic demand figures. China manufactures most lithium-ion batteries and 80% of all EVs. Coal accounts for 60% of their total energy supply."

 

 

Edited April 9 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,485]

3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

I don't care because tire wear is not my number one concern? Too funny.  Grasping at straws.

An EV is heavier than the comparable sized ICE.  I assure you an ICE truck uses more up tires than a small EV.  Hence, we should regulate vehicle weight more closely to encourage smaller vehicles.  This would also help prevent road damage. Anyone using a pickup truck for one passenger and no load in a city should pay more for their stupid vehicle choice.  If it is used for work, great, if you just want to drive a Tonka truck like an adult child pay more.

Now compare replacing a set of tires to shooting off a single missile just for fun / practice (war games / training).  4 Million $ and a crap load of pollution from one shot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot

Cut the military in half and you can drive your dirty truck AND still have a huge military.

Frankly, the issue of the day is atmospheric CO2, and the war being waged by the Biden Administration against the standard of living of the average American family. That is the principal area of concern to most Americans and Europeans.

[TailingsPond + 1,013]

21 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Frankly, the issue of the day is atmospheric CO2, and the war being waged by the Biden Administration against the standard of living of the average American family. That is the principal area of concern to most Americans and Europeans.

I agree people are overly focused on CO2, but try not to project that onto me.

Yes, I care about CO2, but not even anywhere close to as much as I care about other toxic pollutants.  It just happens that the same things that reduce CO2 often tend to reduce things like PM 2.5 in urban air.

I am fully for making laws against PM 2.5. ground level ozone, benzene, etc. which completely ignore CO2 and climate change.  It just turns out that if you want to make a vehicle with no toxic tailpipe emissions it is going to be an EV.  Emissions from a scrubbed smoke stack far from where people live is much different from tailpipe emissions that literally blow exhaust in children's faces.

Do you know anyone who has died of cancer? Probably.  I don't know anyone who has died from CO2.  The nice thing is the CO2 problem would go away on its own if we solved the toxic problem.

The answer is simple - stop burning so much shit.

Edited April 8 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,485]

11 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

The more times you post that article the more ridiculous you appear

Rob, you are really out of touch with reality.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/04/07/what-is-sf6-study-raises-concerns-about-gas-that-is-24000x-more-powerful-than-co2

"Sulphur hexafluoride (SF6) falls within this potent family: a colorless, odorless gas often used to insulate power lines.

Our rapidly electrifying world has caused a marked increase in atmospheric concentration of SF6 this century. And a new international study shows that China is behind the bulk of these emissions in the last decade."

"SF6 emissions from China nearly doubled from 2.6 gigagrams (Gg) per year in 2011 - when they accounted for 34% of global emissions - to 5.1 Gg per year in 2021, when they amounted to 57 per cent.

That’s according to researchers at the Joint Program of MIT on Global Change Science and Policy, Fudan University, Peking University, Bristol University and the Meteorological Observation Center of the China Meteorological Administration.

The increase in Chinese SF6 emissions over the 10-year period offset emissions reductions elsewhere in the world, according to the study published in the journal Nature Communications last month."

Edited April 8 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,485]

17 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

I agree people are overly focused on CO2, but try not to project that onto me.

Yes, I care about CO2, but not even anywhere close to as much as I care about other toxic pollutants.  It just happens that the same things that reduce CO2 often tend to reduce things like PM 2.5 in urban air.

I am fully for making laws against PM 2.5. ground level ozone, benzene, etc. which completely ignore CO2 and climate change.  It just turns out that if you want to make a vehicle with no toxic tailpipe emissions it is going to be an EV.  Emissions from a scrubbed smoke stack far from where people live is much different from tailpipe emissions that literally blow exhaust in children's faces.

Do you know anyone who has died of cancer? Probably.  I don't know anyone who has died from CO2.  The nice thing is the CO2 problem would go away on its own if we solved the toxic problem.

The answer is simple - stop burning so much shit.

Your problem is that increasing EVs also increases the problems you are worried about, with China and its 60% of energy base fueled by coal. The EV revolution is forcing the world to accept huge increases in coal and fossil fuel usage, and thus intensifying the issues that you are concerned about.

No matter how you look at it, your issues are best dealt with by reducing EVs.

Edited April 8 by Ecocharger

[notsonice + 1,266]

47 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Frankly, the issue of the day is atmospheric CO2, and the war being waged by the Biden Administration against the standard of living of the average American family. That is the principal area of concern to most Americans and Europeans.

and the war being waged by the Biden Administration against the standard of living of the average American family.??????

 

more political BS

@selva     the unfounded political attacks  are okay now???????

Edited April 8 by notsonice

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 hours ago, notsonice said:

more political BS

OH how contraire "Mon pipsquip" was it not the German politician's that saved Green Energy windmills.

German government rescues Siemens Energy

By Linda Hall • Updated: 15 Nov 2023 • 15:19

GERMANY’S government announced a €15 billion rescue package including €7.5 billion in state guarantees for windfarm manufacturer Siemens Energy.

The company employs around 26,000 people inside the country and although the ailing company has €110 billion in orders it requires help to sustain them.

The subsidiary, which has large operations in Denmark as well as Spain, has had major problems with some of the turbines it supplies, involving failures in the enormous blades that have led to high repair costs.  Siemens Gamesa has also been hampered by deals agreed in the past at prices that were subsequently affected by galloping inflation.

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/11/15/german-government-rescues-siemens-energy/

Edited April 8 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 hours ago, notsonice said:

more political BS

I know right!

Real Energy Transition Costs Could Spell Danger for EU

By Irina Slav - Apr 08, 2024, 5:00 PM CDT

• The EU had set aside some 580 billion euro, or almost $630 billion for its net-zero plan over the period 2021 to 2027.
• Voters’ disgruntlement with high energy costs and overall inflation is starting to get the attention of politicians.
• EU leaders are struggling to keep the EU competitive in green energy tech in the face of stiff competition from the U.S. and China.

It’s not that the EU is not admitting the transition would be costly. The European Council calls the necessary investment “enormous”. It also says that the EU had set aside some 580 billion euro, or almost $630 billion for its net-zero plan over the period 2021 to 2027. Only it is going to cost a lot more than that—and the EU does not have that kind of money, which is only now coming to light.

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Real-Energy-Transition-Costs-Could-Spell-Danger-for-EU.html

Edited April 8 by Eyes Wide Open

[notsonice + 1,266]

22 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

I know right!

Real Energy Transition Costs Could Spell Danger for EU

By Irina Slav - Apr 08, 2024, 5:00 PM CDT

• The EU had set aside some 580 billion euro, or almost $630 billion for its net-zero plan over the period 2021 to 2027.
• Voters’ disgruntlement with high energy costs and overall inflation is starting to get the attention of politicians.
• EU leaders are struggling to keep the EU competitive in green energy tech in the face of stiff competition from the U.S. and China.

It’s not that the EU is not admitting the transition would be costly. The European Council calls the necessary investment “enormous”. It also says that the EU had set aside some 580 billion euro, or almost $630 billion for its net-zero plan over the period 2021 to 2027. Only it is going to cost a lot more than that—and the EU does not have that kind of money, which is only now coming to light.

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Real-Energy-Transition-Costs-Could-Spell-Danger-for-EU.html

Bidens war????? 

EU leaders are struggling to keep the EU competitive in green energy tech in the face of stiff competition from the U.S. and China.

 

so now being competitive is not suiting you if it means more green energy?????
 

Got it

so green energy is now the cheapest out there and your pal is upset because cheaper energy is not working for him......

Got it

 

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,256]

West Virginia State Treasurer Riley Moore added Citigroup, TD Bank, HSBC and The Northern Trust Company – banks which collectively oversee assets worth trillions of dollars – to his state's Restricted Financial Institution List after he determined they are actively engaged in a boycott of the fossil fuel industry. The action was taken in accordance with a 2022 law the state's legislature passed to fight back against the sustainable investing movement.

"We are absolutely going to stand by our industries here in fossil fuels," Moore told FOX Business. "Last year, the world burned more coal than any time in human history. The consumption of coal is not going down. That is a myth that is proliferated by the climate-activist left. So, why would we put ourselves in a position to not be part of that?"

Think you're correct in your assumption Eco!! More Coal Burned than anytime in history. !!!

Edited April 8 by Old-Ruffneck
add

[Ecocharger + 1,485]

Well, yes, we knew that it would be coming to this, the energy "transition" is just not affordable or practical,  as it inevitably destroys the basic standard of living for the average man, woman and child.

In Europe, national bankruptcy is staring into the face of most governments, and now that reality has come home to roost, there will be a cataclysmic political reckoning for those governments who jumped on the "energy transition" boat when it looked like the cool thing to do.

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Real-Energy-Transition-Costs-Could-Spell-Danger-for-EU.html

"The European Council calls the necessary investment “enormous”. It also says that the EU had set aside some 580 billion euro, or almost $630 billion for its net-zero plan over the period 2021 to 2027. Only it is going to cost a lot more than that—and the EU does not have that kind of money, which is only now coming to light."

Whenever a foolish mega-cost crusade is launched by irresponsible governments, the first casualty when disaster emerges is the truth itself. The spin doctors work overtime to construct a web of protective counterfactuals in a desperate attempt to evade the inevitable political consequences of monumental government stupidity.

Edited April 9 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 1,013]

8 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Your problem is that increasing EVs also increases the problems you are worried about, with China and its 60% of energy base fueled by coal. The EV revolution is forcing the world to accept huge increases in coal and fossil fuel usage, and thus intensifying the issues that you are concerned about.

No matter how you look at it, your issues are best dealt with by reducing EVs.

I think I was pretty clear in saying that I am much more concerned about local toxic emissions than global greenhouse emissions.

If the EV is made in China I am unlikely to be exposed to the toxic waste from the mines, factories, and power plants.  If my neighbour buys that Chinese EV my local air becomes cleaner.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

10 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

West Virginia State Treasurer Riley Moore added Citigroup, TD Bank, HSBC and The Northern Trust Company – banks which collectively oversee assets worth trillions of dollars – to his state's Restricted Financial Institution List after he determined they are actively engaged in a boycott of the fossil fuel industry. The action was taken in accordance with a 2022 law the state's legislature passed to fight back against the sustainable investing movement.

"We are absolutely going to stand by our industries here in fossil fuels," Moore told FOX Business. "Last year, the world burned more coal than any time in human history. The consumption of coal is not going down. That is a myth that is proliferated by the climate-activist left. So, why would we put ourselves in a position to not be part of that?"

Think you're correct in your assumption Eco!! More Coal Burned than anytime in history. !!!

Top Coal Province in China to Curb Output for First Time in Years

Top Coal Province in China to Curb Output for First Time in Years | OilPrice.com

[Ecocharger + 1,485]

Here is the EV story, coal coal coal, coal for China....EVs are coal-cars.

Bring on the coal so that Biden's EV adventure can continue.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinas-Seaborne-Coal-Imports-Rise-Despite-Projections-of-Flat-Volumes.html

"China’s seaborne coal imports jumped by 17% in the first quarter compared to the same period of 2023, despite earlier expectations that overall coal imports this year would be largely flat versus last year.

Imports of all varieties of coal by sea into China stood at 97.43 million metric tons between January and March 2024, an increase of 16.9% from the 83.36 million tons imported in the same quarter last year, data compiled by commodity analysts Kpler and cited by Reuters columnist Clyde Russell showed on Tuesday.  

The estimated jump in seaborne coal imports contrasts with an earlier expectation that all of China’s coal imports this year would remain basically flat compared to 2023. "

Edited April 9 by Ecocharger

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

11 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

I think I was pretty clear in saying that I am much more concerned about local toxic emissions than global greenhouse emissions.

If the EV is made in China I am unlikely to be exposed to the toxic waste from the mines, factories, and power plants.  If my neighbour buys that Chinese EV my local air becomes cleaner.

 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

16 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Here is the EV story, coal coal coal, coal for China....EVs are coal-cars.

Bring on the coal so that Biden's EV adventure can continue.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinas-Seaborne-Coal-Imports-Rise-Despite-Projections-of-Flat-Volumes.html

"China’s seaborne coal imports jumped by 17% in the first quarter compared to the same period of 2023, despite earlier expectations that overall coal imports this year would be largely flat versus last year.

Imports of all varieties of coal by sea into China stood at 97.43 million metric tons between January and March 2024, an increase of 16.9% from the 83.36 million tons imported in the same quarter last year, data compiled by commodity analysts Kpler and cited by Reuters columnist Clyde Russell showed on Tuesday.  

The estimated jump in seaborne coal imports contrasts with an earlier expectation that all of China’s coal imports this year would remain basically flat compared to 2023. "

Coal, coal, coal you say.

Yes coal is a massive requirement for powergen in China currently but from 2000 - 2022 has seen a drop of 17% in the energy mix which is significant.

Then there's this

China | Electricity Transition | Ember (ember-climate.org)

In 2020, for example, China pledged to reach 1,200 gigawatts of renewables capacity by 2030, more than double its capacity at that time. At its present pace, it will meet that target by 2025, and could boast as much as 1,000 gigawatts of solar power alone by the end of 2026, an achievement that would make a substantial contribution to the 11,000 gigawatts of installed renewable capacity that the world needs to meet the 2030 targets of the Paris Agreement. Fossil fuels now make up less than half of China’s total installed generation capacity, a dramatic reduction from a decade ago when fossil fuels accounted for two-thirds of its power capacity.

How China Became the World’s Leader on Renewable Energy - Yale E360

Coal has a very black future (pun intended)!

Take a look at this and ask yourself honestly if you think coal has much of a future.

China’s MASSIVE Desert Project Is About To Change The World - Undecided with Matt Ferrell (undecidedmf.com)

Like many deserts, China’s Kubuqi desert enjoys persistent but predictable winds and around 280 days of scorching sunshine every year. This makes it a challenging place to live, farm or do just about anything else, but it makes it perfect for solar and wind generation. That’s exactly what China is doing. ² This is the Kubuqi Renewables Base. It’s roughly the size of 20 Central Parks, and when fully operational, it will supply 16 gigawatts to well over a million homes.³⁴endin

 

Kubuqi is impressive, but it’s just the centerpiece in a vast network of around 225 bases being built across China’s western and northern deserts. Kubuqi and its sister projects are well on track to have a generational capacity of 455 gigawatts(GW), 60% of which will be solar and the other 40% will be wind. That’s staggering — to put it into perspective, that’s more clean energy generation capacity than is currently available in any nation outside China. A system that large could almost cover India’s current energy needs by itself.³ 455 GW is equal to the combined green energy generation of the the United Kingdom, Australia and Indonesia, plus the total power capacity of Brazil.³

These bases are all due to come online within the next year or two. That means China could dwarf the world’s current renewable generation capabilities, but how has the world’s current biggest polluter turned into green energy’s biggest champion?

 

Edited April 10 by Rob Plant

[notsonice + 1,266]

18 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Here is the EV story, coal coal coal, coal for China....EVs are coal-cars.

Bring on the coal so that Biden's EV adventure can continue.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinas-Seaborne-Coal-Imports-Rise-Despite-Projections-of-Flat-Volumes.html

"China’s seaborne coal imports jumped by 17% in the first quarter compared to the same period of 2023, despite earlier expectations that overall coal imports this year would be largely flat versus last year.

Imports of all varieties of coal by sea into China stood at 97.43 million metric tons between January and March 2024, an increase of 16.9% from the 83.36 million tons imported in the same quarter last year, data compiled by commodity analysts Kpler and cited by Reuters columnist Clyde Russell showed on Tuesday.  

The estimated jump in seaborne coal imports contrasts with an earlier expectation that all of China’s coal imports this year would remain basically flat compared to 2023. "

coal increasing in china????????

ha ha ha you lose again

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/chinas-jan-feb-coal-output-slips-4-as-safety-measures-curb-production

China, the world's largest producer, mined 705.27 million metric tons of coal in the first two months of the year, the National Bureau of Statistics said on Monday, down from 734.23 million in the corresponding 2023 period.

and March????? more of the same , you can bet

 

So down by 29 million tonnes at least in the 1st quarter

and your imports ???

up by 16 million tonnes over the same period in 2023

are you still math challenged???? of course you are

so 29 million minus 16 million equals???????

Coal is down by at least 13 million tonnes in China in the first couple of months.......

So once again you lose

coal coal coal, coal for China....EVs are coal-cars???? just more of your unfounded BS

Edited April 10 by notsonice

[turbguy + 1,553]

For those interested in pursuing CCS (like the Wyoming State Legislators), try a 40% to 65% reduction in net generating unit output and a tripling of unit heat rate, all due to the additional house power consumed by common processes.

That makes ZERO sense to this guy (who votes for some of those legislators).

https://wyofile.com/despite-staggering-costs-and-logistic-challenges-carbon-capture-studies-at-wyoming-coal-plants-advance/

"...Cheyenne Light, Fuel and Power’s Wygen II coal plant [about 95 MW], where the utility is working with engineering firm Black & Veatch and others on “novel” approaches to apply carbon capture technology. But there are many logistic, technical and environmental challenges — not the least of which is an estimated 40% to 65% reduction in power generation output due to the parasitic load of powering a carbon capture facility, according to the company". 

 

[notsonice + 1,266]

 Gas demand in the EU is falling permanently

reality 

 

Reuters

Europe's swollen gas stocks drive prices lower

Northwest Europe is roughly two-thirds of the way through the heating season, with a record volume of gas in storage for the time of year,...

.

Feb 13, 2024

European Environment Agency

Climate change mitigation: reducing emissions

Our climate is changing because of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere. Despite notable emission reductions over the last decades,...

.

2 weeks ago

Morningstar

Europe's Gas Storage is Chock-Full. What Are the Risks this Winter?

Europe has done well in pivoting away from Russian gas imports. After painful energy price rises in 2022, they have fallen steadily this...

.

Nov 22, 2023

 

Euronews

European gas prices plummet: Is the energy crisis finally over?

The Dutch TTF benchmark for European gas prices has seen a significant drop in February 2024, falling below €25/megawatt-hour (MWh),...

.

1 month ago

Financial Times

European gas prices cool as traders shrug off cold snap

High storage levels push TTF benchmark to near five-month low.

.

Jan 11, 2024

Carbon Brief

EU’s use of fossil fuels for electricity falls 17% to ‘record low’ in first half of 2023

The amount of electricity generated by fossil fuels across the European Union (EU) fell to its lowest level since records began in the first...

.

Aug 29, 2023

GMK Center

EU gas consumption decreased by 13.5% y/y in 2023

The indicator was lower than the average level of consumption for 2017-2021. The European Union countries reduced gas consumption by 13.5%...

.

Jan 29, 2024

Times of India

French Gas Demand Falls in 2023, Storage at 47% | World News

Europe News: French gas consumption continued to decline in 2023 due to warmer weather and demand reduction policies. Gas storage levels are...

.

1 month ago

Edited April 10 by notsonice

[Ecocharger + 1,485]

10 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Coal, coal, coal you say.

Yes coal is a massive requirement for powergen in China currently but from 2000 - 2022 has seen a drop of 17% in the energy mix which is significant.

Then there's this

China | Electricity Transition | Ember (ember-climate.org)

In 2020, for example, China pledged to reach 1,200 gigawatts of renewables capacity by 2030, more than double its capacity at that time. At its present pace, it will meet that target by 2025, and could boast as much as 1,000 gigawatts of solar power alone by the end of 2026, an achievement that would make a substantial contribution to the 11,000 gigawatts of installed renewable capacity that the world needs to meet the 2030 targets of the Paris Agreement. Fossil fuels now make up less than half of China’s total installed generation capacity, a dramatic reduction from a decade ago when fossil fuels accounted for two-thirds of its power capacity.

How China Became the World’s Leader on Renewable Energy - Yale E360

Coal has a very black future (pun intended)!

Take a look at this and ask yourself honestly if you think coal has much of a future.

China’s MASSIVE Desert Project Is About To Change The World - Undecided with Matt Ferrell (undecidedmf.com)

Like many deserts, China’s Kubuqi desert enjoys persistent but predictable winds and around 280 days of scorching sunshine every year. This makes it a challenging place to live, farm or do just about anything else, but it makes it perfect for solar and wind generation. That’s exactly what China is doing. ² This is the Kubuqi Renewables Base. It’s roughly the size of 20 Central Parks, and when fully operational, it will supply 16 gigawatts to well over a million homes.³⁴endin

 

Kubuqi is impressive, but it’s just the centerpiece in a vast network of around 225 bases being built across China’s western and northern deserts. Kubuqi and its sister projects are well on track to have a generational capacity of 455 gigawatts(GW), 60% of which will be solar and the other 40% will be wind. That’s staggering — to put it into perspective, that’s more clean energy generation capacity than is currently available in any nation outside China. A system that large could almost cover India’s current energy needs by itself.³ 455 GW is equal to the combined green energy generation of the the United Kingdom, Australia and Indonesia, plus the total power capacity of Brazil.³

These bases are all due to come online within the next year or two. That means China could dwarf the world’s current renewable generation capabilities, but how has the world’s current biggest polluter turned into green energy’s biggest champion?

 

Again, Rob, you are focusing on minutiae and missing the bigger picture.

Chinese demand for coal continues to increase, not decrease.

https://www.mining-technology.com/features/demand-for-coal-in-china-remains-despite-renewable-build-out/#:~:text=The gold standard of business,by almost 7% in 2023.

"According to the latest figures for 2023, coal consumption dropped by 20% in the US and EU but increased by 5% and 8% in China and India respectively, last year. The International Energy Agency (IEA) estimates that coal-fired power generation grew by 1.5% (158TWh) in 2023, with coal use in the power sector increasing by 1.4% (81 million tonnes).

China is the keystone of the global coal market. The Asian nation made up 54% of global consumption in 2022, with the main driver being thermal coal for power generation. The IEA estimates that China's coal-fired power generation increased by almost 7% in 2023."

Furthermore, there is nothing "green" about SF6, which is increasing exponentially in China due to the increased electrical power generation.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/04/07/what-is-sf6-study-raises-concerns-about-gas-that-is-24000x-more-powerful-than-co2

"Our rapidly electrifying world has caused a marked increase in atmospheric concentration of SF6 this century. And a new international study shows that China is behind the bulk of these emissions in the last decade."

"SF6 emissions from China nearly doubled from 2.6 gigagrams (Gg) per year in 2011 - when they accounted for 34% of global emissions - to 5.1 Gg per year in 2021, when they amounted to 57 per cent."

This rapid rise in Chinese emissions of SF6 is now into a quantum leap to much higher levels, in tandem with the expansion of electrical energy.

Edited April 10 by Ecocharger

[notsonice + 1,266]

10 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Again, Rob, you are focusing on minutiae and missing the bigger picture.

Chinese demand for coal continues to increase, not decrease.

https://www.mining-technology.com/features/demand-for-coal-in-china-remains-despite-renewable-build-out/#:~:text=The gold standard of business,by almost 7% in 2023.

"According to the latest figures for 2023, coal consumption dropped by 20% in the US and EU but increased by 5% and 8% in China and India respectively, last year. The International Energy Agency (IEA) estimates that coal-fired power generation grew by 1.5% (158TWh) in 2023, with coal use in the power sector increasing by 1.4% (81 million tonnes).

China is the keystone of the global coal market. The Asian nation made up 54% of global consumption in 2022, with the main driver being thermal coal for power generation. The IEA estimates that China's coal-fired power generation increased by almost 7% in 2023."

Furthermore, there is nothing "green" about SF6, which is increasing exponentially in China due to the increased electrical power generation.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/04/07/what-is-sf6-study-raises-concerns-about-gas-that-is-24000x-more-powerful-than-co2

"Our rapidly electrifying world has caused a marked increase in atmospheric concentration of SF6 this century. And a new international study shows that China is behind the bulk of these emissions in the last decade."

"SF6 emissions from China nearly doubled from 2.6 gigagrams (Gg) per year in 2011 - when they accounted for 34% of global emissions - to 5.1 Gg per year in 2021, when they amounted to 57 per cent."

This rapid rise in Chinese emissions of SF6 is now into a quantum leap to much higher levels, in tandem with the expansion of electrical energy.

coal increasing in china????????

ha ha ha you lose again

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/chinas-jan-feb-coal-output-slips-4-as-safety-measures-curb-production

China, the world's largest producer, mined 705.27 million metric tons of coal in the first two months of the year, the National Bureau of Statistics said on Monday, down from 734.23 million in the corresponding 2023 period.

and March????? more of the same , you can bet

 

So down by 29 million tonnes at least in the 1st quarter

and your imports ???

up by 16 million tonnes over the same period in 2023

are you still math challenged???? of course you are

so 29 million minus 16 million equals???????

Coal is down by at least 13 million tonnes in China in the first couple of months.......

So once again you lose

coal coal coal, coal for China....EVs are coal-cars???? just more of your unfounded BS

Edited April 10 by notsonice

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

13 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Chinese demand for coal continues to increase, not decrease.

No, no it isnt!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 4/8/2024 at 8:56 PM, Ecocharger said:

Your problem is that increasing EVs also increases the problems you are worried about, with China and its 60% of energy base fueled by coal.

Yes down from 78% in 2020! and dropping fast!