GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

TailingsPond · May 13

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Maybe he is thinking theres nothing to do for 9 months other than masterbate and that will make him go blind?

https://youtu.be/Gs3wOk2tlsY?t=40

Ecocharger · May 13

5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

No theyre not as has been proven by Notsonice

These new BYD cars havent even landed in Europe yet, but at $10,000 they will sell before they get to the lots unless massive levies are put on them.

You seem to be willfully ignoring this new price point for EV's, surprise surprise.

Rob, the current numbers show that EV sales are on a death march to oblivion, especially in your own area.

Only Ford had the guts to tell the truth about their EV sales, and the picture is an unmitigated disaster. There is just no demand for these contraptions.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/business/ford-earnings-ev-losses/index.html?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

"Ford’s electric vehicle unit reported that losses soared in the first quarter to $1.3 billion, or $132,000 for each of the 10,000 vehicles it sold in the first three months of the year, helping to drag down earnings for the company overall."

"The EV unit, which Ford calls Model e, sold 10,000 vehicles in the quarter, down 20% from the number it sold a year earlier. And its revenue plunged 84% to about $100 million, which Ford attributed mostly to price cuts for EVs across the industry. That resulted in the $1.3 billion loss before interest and taxes (EBIT), and the massive per-vehicle loss in the Model e unit."

Ecocharger · May 13

On 5/12/2024 at 1:48 AM, TailingsPond said:

Seim and Olsen clearly admit their first experiment was inferior to Harde and Schnell **. They may not come to the exact conclusions as Harde and Schnell in their newer paper, but you can not argue that Seim and Olsen still think that their earlier paper is still of much merit. Hence, they refuted their earlier experiment.

The forcing equations are the whole thing...

Once again why not e-mail them? Ask them for yourself, these guys are not swamped with messages over this I guarantee you.

** "In a control experiment, we verified this result."

The "forcing equations" are the issue, and I guess you missed the point of this recent paper.

It measures the independent impact of CO2, not just plain old "air", which is a mixture of greenhouse gases. That is what we want to know, what is the contribution of CO2 to the greenhouse effect.

"no heating but a slight cooling of a black object is found when air is replaced by CO2...The presence of IR radiation from a heated surface (like when the sun heats the earth’s surface) strongly attenuates the heating ability of increasing backscatter from increased amount of CO₂ in the atmosphere. This result has consequences for the climate change models used by IPCC.""

This is a game changer.

Edited May 13 by Ecocharger

notsonice · May 13

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

The "forcing equations" are the issue, and I guess you missed the point of this recent paper.

It measures the independent impact of CO2, not just plain old "air", which is a mixture of greenhouse gases. That is what we want to know, what is the contribution of CO2 to the greenhouse effect.

"no heating but a slight cooling of a black object is found when air is replaced by CO2...The presence of IR radiation from a heated surface (like when the sun heats the earth’s surface) strongly attenuates the heating ability of increasing backscatter from increased amount of CO₂ in the atmosphere. This result has consequences for the climate change models used by IPCC.""

This is a game changer.

This is a game changer.????

nope....only you believe yourself....no one else is supporting you

notsonice · May 13

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Rob, the current numbers show that EV sales are on a death march to oblivion, especially in your own area.

Only Ford had the guts to tell the truth about their EV sales, and the picture is an unmitigated disaster. There is just no demand for these contraptions.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/24/business/ford-earnings-ev-losses/index.html?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

"Ford’s electric vehicle unit reported that losses soared in the first quarter to $1.3 billion, or $132,000 for each of the 10,000 vehicles it sold in the first three months of the year, helping to drag down earnings for the company overall."

"The EV unit, which Ford calls Model e, sold 10,000 vehicles in the quarter, down 20% from the number it sold a year earlier. And its revenue plunged 84% to about $100 million, which Ford attributed mostly to price cuts for EVs across the industry. That resulted in the $1.3 billion loss before interest and taxes (EBIT), and the massive per-vehicle loss in the Model e unit."

2024 sales of cars in the EU

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/europe-passenger-car-sales-the-ev-cool-down-is-such-a-twisted-story-233422.html

EVs Plugins and Hybrids much greater than Petrol and Diesel combined

Demand for oil in the EU......decreasing every day

YTD

EV sales are up

Plugin Hybrid sales are up

Non Plug in Hybrids sales are up

Petrol cars (clunkers) sales are down

Diesel...sales are down over 10 percent

The European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA) publishes monthly European passenger car registration statistics. Starting from 2022, these statistics became more relevant because they take into account the major powertrain types. I challenge you to dive into the numbers and debunk the assertions that EV sales are on the verge of collapse.

We can see different trends, regardless of monthly variation in some particular periods

Edited May 13 by notsonice

notsonice · May 13

clunkers are doomed and along with it Oil Demand

image.png.e7adf537a5879ad45ab9819c695d9c65.png

Nikkei Asia

China EVs soar in Brazil, threatening Fiat, GM and VW dominance

SAO PAULO/TOKYO -- Brazil's demand for inexpensive electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids has seen sales of Chinese autos swell eightfold in...

.

2 days ago

image.png.8833f66d401c8ab0a6e7c62223e8b3b5.png

CarNewsChina.com

China's EV sales now over 50%

History has been made over the period April 1-14, sales of new energy vehicles (NEV) exceeded half of all car sales in China.

.

3 weeks ago

image.jpeg.f679fc1cec3305493a9d9ae642c6b84f.jpeg

image.png.55d8b332705f23c9ae9060285375b8f9.png

Los Angeles Times

China's highflying EV industry is going global. Why that has Tesla and other carmakers worried

A flood of cheap Chinese electric car exports has raised the specter of another trade war with the U.S. And it has Tesla worried.

.

3 weeks ago

Edited May 13 by notsonice

TailingsPond · May 13

4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The "forcing equations" are the issue, and I guess you missed the point of this recent paper.

It measures the independent impact of CO2, not just plain old "air", which is a mixture of greenhouse gases. That is what we want to know, what is the contribution of CO2 to the greenhouse effect.

"no heating but a slight cooling of a black object is found when air is replaced by CO2...The presence of IR radiation from a heated surface (like when the sun heats the earth’s surface) strongly attenuates the heating ability of increasing backscatter from increased amount of CO₂ in the atmosphere. This result has consequences for the climate change models used by IPCC.""

This is a game changer.

You misunderstand the cooling of the black object in that paper. The black object is "cooled" by the replacement of air with CO2 because the CO2 absorbs the IR radiation and radiates it in all directions and most of that radiation hits the sides of the aluminum lined box and then escapes.

I drew a simple diagram to explain. The "cooling" observed actually demonstrates CO2 forcing.

Edited May 13 by TailingsPond

Ecocharger · May 13

You just knew that the EV rollout would be a bust, and now the wheels have come off completely together with a total waste of uncounted billions of taxpayer dollars, throw thoughtlessly into the sewer of Green waste slime.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/75-Billion-Bipartisan-Investment-Nets-Only-7-EV-Charging-Stations.html

"The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law earmarked $7.5 billion for EV charging, with $5 billion allocated to states, but the slow rollout has resulted in just 7 charging stations.

Higher standards for new EV chargers, including 97% operational reliability, 150kW power, and proximity to highways, have contributed to the slow progress, along with permitting challenges and power demands.

Concerns have been raised by lawmakers and experts about mismanagement of taxpayer dollars and the lack of experience among state transportation agencies in deploying EV charging infrastructure."

Ecocharger · May 14

2 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

You misunderstand the cooling of the black object in that paper. The black object is "cooled" by the replacement of air with CO2 because the CO2 absorbs the IR radiation and radiates it in all directions and most of that radiation hits the sides of the aluminum lined box and then escapes.

I drew a simple diagram to explain. The "cooling" observed actually demonstrates CO2 forcing.

Well, no, that is not the finding of the study.

The experiment finds that replacing "air", which includes other greenhouse gases, with CO2 causes the following,

"The presence of IR radiation from a heated surface (like when the sun heats the earth’s surface) strongly attenuates the heating ability of increasing backscatter from increased amount of CO₂ in the atmosphere."

So it is IR radiation from the heated surface (such as the Earth) which causes the reduction in the strength of the backscatter from atmospheric CO2 and the subsequent net cooling.

It is only when general "air" is used does the net heating take place. The CO2 contributes a net cooling.

Consequently, "This result has consequences for the climate change models used by IPCC."

Edited May 14 by Ecocharger

Ecocharger · May 14

On 5/9/2024 at 6:30 AM, Rob Plant said:

Dont know about US law, but in the UK if there is a "failure of oversight or staffing levels" as you put it then thats negligence by management and proper risk assessments havent been carried out to prevent the accident in the first place.

The directors of such a business, in particular the MD or CEO, if proven to have been negligent through understaffing, poor training, procedures being incorrect etc leading to severe injury or even death of an employee will automatically be arrested. It is then the duty of the MD or CEO to prove their innocence. Health and safety is generally the only instance in UK law where you are guilty and have to prove your innocence, every other law breach you are innocent and have to be proven guilty.

below link shows examples where companies havent followed the correct practices or carried out proper risk assessments.

10 Highest HSE Fines of All Time | Skillcast

Reverse burdens

22. When the burden of proof is on the defendant to establish a particular issue, it is often referred to as a 'reverse burden', because it reverses the normal situation in which the prosecution must prove the facts beyond reasonable doubt.

23. Section 40 HSWA imposes such a reverse burden: where a duty holder is required to do something 'so far as is practicable' or 'so far as is reasonably practicable', the burden is on the defendant to prove that it was not practicable or reasonably practicable to do more than was in fact done. The Court of Appeal has ruled that the burden of proof imposed on the defendant by section 40 is a legal burden (see above), which is justified, necessary and proportionate.⁸

24. Similarly, under section 17 HSWA, if an accused is proved not to have followed a relevant provision in an Approved Code of Practice, the failure to do so will be taken by the court as proof of contravention of the legal requirement in question unless the accused can show that s/he satisfied the requirement by adopting suitable alternative measures.

25. Where a legal burden of proof is on a defendant, s/he can satisfy it if s/he proves the issue on the balance of probabilities⁹. This is the same standard as that placed on a claimant in a civil action; s/he need not prove the issue beyond reasonable doubt.

I think that you will find that even in UK and Europe, governments have a well-established duty of care under statute to advise the public on relevant climate science.

Any attempt to suppress or ignore new climate science which might dispute government policy is a violation of law and could be actionable by public lawsuits.

TailingsPond · May 14

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Consequently, "This result has consequences for the climate change models used by IPCC."

Sure there could be "consequences for the climate change models." That doesn't mean they are refuting the climate change models, they just think some of the parameters used in the modelling could be adjusted.

The "cooling" shown by the CO2 clearly demonstrated the backscatter they said was not present in their first paper.

Ecocharger · May 14

6 hours ago, notsonice said:

2024 sales of cars in the EU

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/europe-passenger-car-sales-the-ev-cool-down-is-such-a-twisted-story-233422.html

EVs Plugins and Hybrids much greater than Petrol and Diesel combined

Demand for oil in the EU......decreasing every day

YTD

EV sales are up

Plugin Hybrid sales are up

Non Plug in Hybrids sales are up

Petrol cars (clunkers) sales are down

Diesel...sales are down over 10 percent

The European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA) publishes monthly European passenger car registration statistics. Starting from 2022, these statistics became more relevant because they take into account the major powertrain types. I challenge you to dive into the numbers and debunk the assertions that EV sales are on the verge of collapse.

Read before you speak,

"Ford’s electric vehicle unit reported that losses soared in the first quarter to $1.3 billion, or $132,000 for each of the 10,000 vehicles it sold in the first three months of the year, helping to drag down earnings for the company overall."

"The EV unit, which Ford calls Model e, sold 10,000 vehicles in the quarter, down 20% from the number it sold a year earlier. And its revenue plunged 84% to about $100 million, which Ford attributed mostly to price cuts for EVs across the industry. That resulted in the $1.3 billion loss before interest and taxes (EBIT), and the massive per-vehicle loss in the Model e unit."

Subsidies and breaks offered to EV industries by the governments are now being removed and higher fees are being levied on the struggling industry.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Governments-Deliver-Blow-To-EV-Darlings.html

"Financial Times: EV additions to national fleets cost governments globally $10 billion in fuel duty revenue losses.

Governments are depriving themselves, or rather, their successors, of billions in fuel duty revenues in the name of electrification.

Governments have started to phase out tax incentives and have lifted registration fees for new EVs to compensate for the decline in fuel duty revenues."

"In Europe, governments are taking a different but equally unpopular approach: they are phasing out EV incentives. The first results are in. In December, Germany announced the abrupt end to EV subsidies. Over the first quarter of this year, EV sales in the EU’s largest economy dropped by over 14%. In January alone, EV sales took a 50% dive following the cancelation of incentives."

Ecocharger · May 14

1 minute ago, TailingsPond said:

Sure there could be "consequences for the climate change models." That doesn't mean they are refuting the climate change models, they just think some of the parameters used in the modelling could be adjusted.

The "cooling" shown by the CO2 clearly demonstrated the backscatter they said was not present in their first paper.

Well, you are again dancing around the main point, which is that atmospheric CO2 contributes a net cooling to global warming/cooling. Therefore, it must be H2O which is the driver of global warming and/or the reduction of atmospheric particulate levels.

You have trouble seeing the relevance of that to public policy, which has been hyper-phobic over CO2 for no good reason? Come now.

TailingsPond · May 14

I knew you would misunderstand the CO2 "cooling."

Ecocharger · May 14

4 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

I knew you would misunderstand the CO2 "cooling."

I knew that you would misread the experiment.

The comparison between CO2 and "air" shows that CO2 is not the driver of global warming, as clearly stated in the results.

Thus the need to recalibrate the forcing equations.

Now why would any reasonable President be worried about an experiment showing the lack of necessity for destroying the average American's standard of living? I thought that the President is supposed to be concerned about the average American.

Edited May 14 by Ecocharger

notsonice · May 14

16 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

I knew that you would misread the experiment.

The comparison between CO2 and "air" shows that CO2 is not the driver of global warming, as clearly stated in the results.

Thus the need to recalibrate the forcing equations.

Now why would any reasonable President be worried about an experiment showing the lack of necessity for destroying the average American's standard of living? I thought that the President is supposed to be concerned about the average American.

you seem upset that no one is paying attention to your BS article that the authors themselves retracted with new findings. I understand that you seem like you were misled and now you do not know what to do.....Do not worry there are many more Luddites, like yourself out there.

Until then, be rest assured , that the scientific community stands behind their claims that Global warming is caused by Methane and CO2 emissions . And be rest assured no one is taking your claims seriously. No one.

Enjoy your day....

PS Solar panels are now replacing coal fired generation everywhere, well almost everywhere. Your Beloved leader in North Korea is listening to you and has not installed any solar panels.......

notsonice · May 14

image.png.310f19b8fabe7d1c1a028f66c11ea52a.png

CNET

Bright Future for Renewables: Solar Drives Energy Growth in 2024

After a record-breaking year for solar additions to the grid, the EIA predicts solar will continue to be the fastest growing renewable over...

.

1 day ago

Old-Ruffneck · May 14

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

CNET

Bright Future for Renewables: Solar Drives Energy Growth in 2024

After a record-breaking year for solar additions to the grid, the EIA predicts solar will continue to be the fastest growing renewable over...
.
1 day ago

The EIA hasn't a very good track record on predictions...About 3 months ago they said oil would be 100+ by 3rd quarter.

Ecocharger · May 15

Some people are never happy.

The oil industry has been criticized for producing too much oil and endangering the climate, and some misguided activists are trying to sue accordingly, while the screwball activists are also complaining that the oil industry is not producing enough oil and are suing the oil industry for this reason.

Both of these cannot be right.

It is about time that the oil critics got their act together, which is it? Too much, or too little? The activists are apparently in a schizophrenic meltdown.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Consumers-Sue-US-Shale-Alleging-Collusion-to-Boost-Oil-Prices.html

"...these consumers are taking some of the top U.S. shale producers to court where the companies are called to answer allegations of fixing and keeping oil prices elevated by constraining domestic production. "

Edited May 15 by Ecocharger

Ecocharger · May 15

3 hours ago, notsonice said:

you seem upset that no one is paying attention to your BS article that the authors themselves retracted with new findings. I understand that you seem like you were misled and now you do not know what to do.....Do not worry there are many more Luddites, like yourself out there.

Until then, be rest assured , that the scientific community stands behind their claims that Global warming is caused by Methane and CO2 emissions . And be rest assured no one is taking your claims seriously. No one.

Enjoy your day....

PS Solar panels are now replacing coal fired generation everywhere, well almost everywhere. Your Beloved leader in North Korea is listening to you and has not installed any solar panels.......

Famous last words...don't worry, the discussion among these scientists shows that these articles are central to the debate and, yes, many scientists are watching the discussion and these articles are well known.

notsonice · May 15

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Famous last words...don't worry, the discussion among these scientists shows that these articles are central to the debate and, yes, many scientists are watching the discussion and these articles are well known.

Even though CO₂ has a longer-lasting effect, methane sets the pace for warming in the near term. About 30% of today's global warming is driven by methane from human actions.