Ecocharger + 1,446 DL May 30 2 hours ago, turbguy said: True! The CAA has made HUGE in roads, requiring "the best available technology" to reduce emissions from new (and old) sources. The Clean Air Act has a bit of a complex history. There was an initial version passed in 1963, but the one most people refer to today is the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1970. This significantly strengthened the act and is what truly established the Federal government's role in regulating air quality. Since then, the regulations have continued to be amended and updated. The EPA is responsible for overseeing the Clean Air Act, and they can issue new regulations or update existing ones as needed. Federal regulation of airborne emissions worked! Using OLD technologies... If you are "talking coal", I would concentrate on Sulfur (down about 85%, thanks to some extent to scrubbers) and Nitrogen oxides (down about 50%, thanks to SCR's and combustion controls). Not exactly zero pollutants, but certainly better than it was. Then, there was this Ultra-low sulfur diesel with a maximum sulfur content of 15 ppm that became mandatory for highway vehicles starting in 2010. Then, there's this "ash" (real estate that doesn't burn). You are showing a graph of the TOTAL effect of the EPA's actions. The EPA deals with a lot more sources than coal-fired power plants. Does the EPA make mistakes? Sure! Don't get me started on "new source review" when an owner upgrades a turbine's steam path to increase thermal efficiency. Replace parts with like-kind=no new source. Replace parts with upgraded materials and geometry=WATCH OUT! I would like to see a chart with data beyond 2018... Yes, a success story for the fossil fuel pollution changes, unlike the potential disaster awaiting if we adopt the lithium and cobalt needed for the renewable future promoted by the under-informed group sitting in the White House. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,747 RP May 30 11 hours ago, Ecocharger said: I guess you do not like the truth about the drastic decline in fossil fuel pollution despite the massive growth in fossil fuel demand. There's no point in discussing this with you any further. You have already back tracked from your statement that "coal is non-pollutive" to less pollutive, whilst you continue to change your comments to suit when proven wrong, your views on such topics become meaningless and irrelevant. You talk of "truth" but deny pollution from coal, you deny air pollution from FF that causes millions of deaths globally every year. You gleefully trumpet call any perceived increase in coal production or usage when it is clearly horrendously pollutive and a genuine silent killer. Well done! 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,747 RP May 30 (edited) Oh dear this pisses on Eco's chips! China's Oil Demand to Peak Before 2027, Says Sinopec China's oil demand is expected to peak before 2027, earlier than previously forecast. China's coal consumption will stop growing around 2025, while natural gas usage is projected to peak by 2040. Non-fossil energy is set to dominate China's total energy supply by around 2045, with hydrogen energy playing a significant role. China's Oil Demand to Peak Before 2027, Says Sinopec | OilPrice.com Where are all those FF growth forecasts going to come from now Eco?? India? Malaysia? err anywhere?? If Sinopec themselves are saying this then it doesnt get any more accurate than that. Looks like EV's and renewables are winning the race very very quickly and the world is set to see the decline in FF usage and hopefully pollution. 88% renewable energy by 2050 is extraordinary! I wonder if Mark Lawson will take note that Hydrogen will play a significant role?? Maybe one for his book 🤣 For all the luddites on this forum, ENJOY! Edited May 30 by Rob Plant 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,446 DL May 30 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Oh dear this pisses on Eco's chips! China's Oil Demand to Peak Before 2027, Says Sinopec China's oil demand is expected to peak before 2027, earlier than previously forecast. China's coal consumption will stop growing around 2025, while natural gas usage is projected to peak by 2040. Non-fossil energy is set to dominate China's total energy supply by around 2045, with hydrogen energy playing a significant role. China's Oil Demand to Peak Before 2027, Says Sinopec | OilPrice.com Where are all those FF growth forecasts going to come from now Eco?? India? Malaysia? err anywhere?? If Sinopec themselves are saying this then it doesnt get any more accurate than that. Looks like EV's and renewables are winning the race very very quickly and the world is set to see the decline in FF usage and hopefully pollution. 88% renewable energy by 2050 is extraordinary! I wonder if Mark Lawson will take note that Hydrogen will play a significant role?? Maybe one for his book 🤣 For all the luddites on this forum, ENJOY! Not going to happen. The science foundation which is the basis of the renewable push by governments is crumbling before our very eyes, and this will cause a reawakening of science realities as the truth comes into the public forum. The Green Revolution will soon become a rather embarrassing footnote to human folly. Edited May 30 by Ecocharger 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,243 DM May 30 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Not going to happen. The science foundation which is the basis of the renewable push by governments is crumbling before our very eyes, and this will cause a reawakening of science realities as the truth comes into the public forum. The Green Revolution will soon become a rather embarrassing footnote to human folly. Not going to happen.????? it is already happening now............before your very eyes look at the price of crude.....going nowhere even as OPEC restrains output in an effort to keep oil at $80 a barrel why would OPEC cut production when you say oil demand is booming??????????? because your cries of booming demand are the same cries of OPEC.....utter failure to stem Peak Oil which has happened (dead cat bounce is all you have) the US summer driving season has been a bust for oil demand in the US.........demand never moved up on a YOY basis...Pesky EVs and Hybrids and was it not you touting crazy demand increases for the past 2 years that would result in $100 oil or $130 oil.....looks like you once again failed with your BS posts how did your posts on the booming oil demand work out....another failure...and Now China increasing demand .....POOF for ever Reality, the Chinese auto market has been swung to a EV dominated market....no one in China wants to put out the money for an ICE clunker. China imports massive amounts of oil and coal (which is a national security issue, China cannot engage in war when it is import dependent for its energy needs). To get rid of this dependency China is on an all out quest to reduce (import) demand for oil and coal and the answer is solar wind and EVs. you are a rather embarrassing footnote to the human Coal and Oil, is the only way, folly Edited May 30 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,243 DM May 30 (edited) another day of crappy oil demand brought to you by the Green Agenda ttps://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Oil-Slides-as-EIA-Reports-Crude-Inventory-Decline-Fuel-Builds.html Oil Slides as EIA Reports Crude Inventory Decline, Fuel Builds By Julianne Geiger - May 30, 2024, 10:57 AM CDT Crude oil inventories declined by an estimated 4.2 million barrels, while fuel inventories increased. Traders are cautious due to concerns about softer demand and uncertainty about supply sufficiency. OPEC+ is expected to extend its voluntary production cuts into the second half of the year, supporting prices. Edited May 30 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloodman33 + 22 TJ May 30 Well I talked to Donald Trump after the verdict. I needed to advise him to make sure if he drops the soap in the shower to not bend over. Just doing my part. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,217 er May 31 1 hour ago, bloodman33 said: Well I talked to Donald Trump after the verdict. I needed to advise him to make sure if he drops the soap in the shower to not bend over. Just doing my part. You are One of a Few on here that are fairly ignorant. If you was my neighbor.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,217 er May 31 8 hours ago, notsonice said: another day of crappy oil demand brought to you by the Green Agenda ttps://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Oil-Slides-as-EIA-Reports-Crude-Inventory-Decline-Fuel-Builds.html Oil Slides as EIA Reports Crude Inventory Decline, Fuel Builds By Julianne Geiger - May 30, 2024, 10:57 AM CDT Crude oil inventories declined by an estimated 4.2 million barrels, while fuel inventories increased. Traders are cautious due to concerns about softer demand and uncertainty about supply sufficiency. OPEC+ is expected to extend its voluntary production cuts into the second half of the year, supporting prices. Clueless as how the whole system works. Next week you'll see a build. And don't think politics doesn't factor in the equation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 671 GE May 31 3 hours ago, bloodman33 said: Well I talked to Donald Trump after the verdict. I needed to advise him to make sure if he drops the soap in the shower to not bend over. Just doing my part. A lot of cult members are going to be butt-hurt today. 😆 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 671 GE May 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, Old-Ruffneck said: You are One of a Few on here that are fairly ignorant. If you was my neighbor.............. Oh look here is an example! Old Ruffy has a sore bum. What would you do to your neighbour? Tell us your criminal fantasies. Edited May 31 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,535 May 31 23 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Yes, a success story for the fossil fuel pollution changes, unlike the potential disaster awaiting if we adopt the lithium and cobalt needed for the renewable future promoted by the under-informed group sitting in the White House. At least we don't burn lithium, or cobalt. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 671 GE May 31 2 hours ago, turbguy said: At least we don't burn lithium, or cobalt. Reacting lithium with water is really fun. So I have have "burnt" lithium as it was the reducing agent in the reaction. As you probably know the flame actually comes from the hydrogen and the lithium is not lost; the lithium stays in the water as LiOH. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,446 DL May 31 13 hours ago, notsonice said: Not going to happen.????? it is already happening now............before your very eyes look at the price of crude.....going nowhere even as OPEC restrains output in an effort to keep oil at $80 a barrel why would OPEC cut production when you say oil demand is booming??????????? because your cries of booming demand are the same cries of OPEC.....utter failure to stem Peak Oil which has happened (dead cat bounce is all you have) the US summer driving season has been a bust for oil demand in the US.........demand never moved up on a YOY basis...Pesky EVs and Hybrids and was it not you touting crazy demand increases for the past 2 years that would result in $100 oil or $130 oil.....looks like you once again failed with your BS posts how did your posts on the booming oil demand work out....another failure...and Now China increasing demand .....POOF for ever Reality, the Chinese auto market has been swung to a EV dominated market....no one in China wants to put out the money for an ICE clunker. China imports massive amounts of oil and coal (which is a national security issue, China cannot engage in war when it is import dependent for its energy needs). To get rid of this dependency China is on an all out quest to reduce (import) demand for oil and coal and the answer is solar wind and EVs. you are a rather embarrassing footnote to the human Coal and Oil, is the only way, folly The economy is in difficulty from high interest rates, expectations are that demand for any energy is weakening. That is not the same thing, get used to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,446 DL May 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, turbguy said: At least we don't burn lithium, or cobalt. You have to mine it. https://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1119.pdf Edited May 31 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 671 GE May 31 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: You have to mine it. https://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1119.pdf When you look up lithium articles make sure you are looking at environmental effects not human effects. Li is used as a medicine. Furthermore, lithium is not only used for the EV revolution. You probably own a smartphone which uses a Li battery. Here are the releases from a Li mine. Tiny compared to a coal mine. Click on the releases tab. https://pollution-waste.canada.ca/national-release-inventory/2022/2278 Edited May 31 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,747 RP May 31 16 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Not going to happen. The science foundation which is the basis of the renewable push by governments is crumbling before our very eyes, and this will cause a reawakening of science realities as the truth comes into the public forum. The Green Revolution will soon become a rather embarrassing footnote to human folly. So your rebuttal to Sinopec's own comments are "its not going to happen" with Zero evidence to back up your comment. You continue to make yourself look silly time after time. Can you also advise why, if way cheaper than ICE equivalents (which they are), the new Byd cars wont be sold before they even get to the car lots? Less running costs, less service costs, less maintenance in general, less initial cost to buy. These vehicles are going to revolutionise the EV industry just like they have in China! You better get used to it pretty damn soon. The people who should be worried are the incumbent auto manufacturers as they will be out of business if they dont drastically improve their EV products very quickly. If I was Musk I'd be selling Tesla and moving on to different projects in the next 5 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,217 er May 31 9 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Oh look here is an example! Old Ruffy has a sore bum. What would you do to your neighbour? Tell us your criminal fantasies. Tell us your criminal fantasies. So your mind runs to criminal fantasies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,243 DM May 31 15 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said: Clueless as how the whole system works. Next week you'll see a build. And don't think politics doesn't factor in the equation. Clueless as how the whole system works. Next week you'll see a build. And don't think politics doesn't factor in the equation????? and yet you post nothing to ever back up any thing you post. Guess you do not like facts do you??????? You are the clueless one....all you do is babble BS The China industrial recession is not going to disappear any time soon and at the same time China is full speed ahead with the Green Agenda for the main reason to reduce imports of oil and coal.... do you remember China banning Australian coal imports several years ago and at the same time trying to increase coal production.........It was a full stop plan dealing with energy security Now China is using solar, wind pumped storage batteries nuclear all in an effort to reduce coal consumption and wiping out coal imports same as their trying to reduce imported oil.......pretty clear CleanTechnica China’s Oil & Gas Giant Sinopec Says Peak Oil Demand Already Happened In China Given that 45% of every barrel of oil turns into gasoline, that means China has reached peak petroleum demand. China has an oil demand of... . Oct 11, 2023 and In the latest outlook out today, Sinopec says that China’s coal consumption, which anchors the country’s energy security, will stop growing around 2025. as to reduce oil and coal imports on a long term basis who do you think is going to jump in and replace their import demand.....?????? the US consumer????????????? not happening U.S. oil consumption by year to 2022 | Statista newflash for you and your low IQ Oil loving friends....NO ONE then to another poster you post............... If you was my neighbor.............. Big tough boy BS you resort to veiled threats on an internet chat................makes you look like a bigger fool than you already have proven yourself to be Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187 May 31 Uh, China has over a TW of Coal generating capacity back in 2019 when I last read up on them and it has only increased from there... Well, last I read regarding China and its wind, 2019, less than 1/3 of the power they generated was used on their grid from Chinese government sources. So, ANY pumped hydro storage, battery storage, even if losing ~50% of the power is still better. Been 4 years since then so... China today claims they have ~50GWh of storage(2023) so... How much of it is pumped hydro vrs battery, go figure. One needs more than 10 hours of backup from these facilities, so ~5GW is backed up out of an installed base of ~going on near 400GW of wind @25% capacity factor and who knows how much solar. Not exactly even a dent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 671 GE May 31 6 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Uh, China has over a TW of Coal generating capacity back in 2019 when I last read up on them and it has only increased from there... Well, last I read regarding China and its wind, 2019, less than 1/3 of the power they generated was used on their grid from Chinese government sources. So, ANY pumped hydro storage, battery storage, even if losing ~50% of the power is still better. Been 4 years since then so... China today claims they have ~50GWh of storage(2023) so... How much of it is pumped hydro vrs battery, go figure. One needs more than 10 hours of backup from these facilities, so ~5GW is backed up out of an installed base of ~going on near 400GW of wind @25% capacity factor and who knows how much solar. Not exactly even a dent. It is easy to tell when people are making up numbers. Certain numbers come up more frequently than would be expected if the data was valid. You have a thing for the number 5. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,243 DM May 31 1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Uh, China has over a TW of Coal generating capacity back in 2019 when I last read up on them and it has only increased from there... Well, last I read regarding China and its wind, 2019, less than 1/3 of the power they generated was used on their grid from Chinese government sources. So, ANY pumped hydro storage, battery storage, even if losing ~50% of the power is still better. Been 4 years since then so... China today claims they have ~50GWh of storage(2023) so... How much of it is pumped hydro vrs battery, go figure. One needs more than 10 hours of backup from these facilities, so ~5GW is backed up out of an installed base of ~going on near 400GW of wind @25% capacity factor and who knows how much solar. Not exactly even a dent. China has over a TW of Coal generating capacity back in 2019????? Utilization factor today???? China is working at lowering the 30 percent minimum rule for utilization rate by having coal plants update to run in a peaker mode like Nat gas....China just made a major shift on coal utilization this past week to reduce wind and solar curtailment to less than 5 percent from the previous 10 percent allowed limit https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3264734/chinas-easing-solar-wind-installation-curbs-boost-renewable-energy-aid-sector-struggling-oversupply China’s easing of solar, wind installation curbs to boost renewable energy, aid sector struggling with oversupply The action plan released by the State Council, China’s cabinet, on Wednesday, aims to improve energy conservation and reduce carbon dioxide emissions for the next two years. The action plan comes with a “curtailment” caveat for solar and wind power. These plants can operate at a utilisation rate of 90 per cent compared with 95 per cent previously, “if economics prevail”, according to the plan, meaning more renewable energy installations will be allowed but with a lower rate of utilisation. More coal plant capacity does not mean more overall output... New coal plants are for solar wind backup. The government will now pay coal plants to be on standby............ Coal will take on the role of ‘peaker plants’ As low-carbon energy sources continue to grow, they’ll take priority spot in the electricity mix. Coal power will start to take on the role of ‘peaker plants’. Most of the world is used to gas playing that role. But China has never embraced gas: it doesn’t want another geopolitical burden when it has coal resources at home. So, coal is the ‘flexible’ or ‘peaker’ fuel of choice. Another nod towards this shifting role of coal is that the Chinese government now has a program mandating “flexibility retrofits” on coal plants so that they can ramp up and down more effectively. If coal was going to maintain its role as the bulk baseload of the energy system, it wouldn’t need to do this 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,535 June 1 (edited) 19 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You have to mine it. https://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1119.pdf Lithium metal is not mined. The mineral mined is usually spodumene, which contains lithium aluminum silicate, processed to lithium carbonate. By far and away, the dominant method for "extracting lithium compounds" is by DRILLING, for brine (then evaporated). A minority is indeed extracted from "hard rock" and clays. The material your N.J. "MSDS" references is the lithium METAL! That is indeed stuff to be given great respect. Same with metallic mercury. Same with metallic plutonium. Rechargeable batteries use a lithium compound (not lithium metal) at the cathode, such as lithium cobalt oxide or lithium iron phosphate (which I would also give respect to both). Coal? Yup, that's physically mined. Then "cleaned" (rocks, crow bars, railroad spikes and such hopefully removed). Then moved around. Then crushed, pulverized, and then burned. Edited June 1 by turbguy 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,217 er June 1 (edited) 9 hours ago, notsonice said: Clueless as how the whole system works. Next week you'll see a build. And don't think politics doesn't factor in the equation????? and yet you post nothing to ever back up any thing you post. Guess you do not like facts do you??????? You are the clueless one....all you do is babble BS The China industrial recession is not going to disappear any time soon and at the same time China is full speed ahead with the Green Agenda for the main reason to reduce imports of oil and coal.... do you remember China banning Australian coal imports several years ago and at the same time trying to increase coal production.........It was a full stop plan dealing with energy security Now China is using solar, wind pumped storage batteries nuclear all in an effort to reduce coal consumption and wiping out coal imports same as their trying to reduce imported oil.......pretty clear CleanTechnica China’s Oil & Gas Giant Sinopec Says Peak Oil Demand Already Happened In China Given that 45% of every barrel of oil turns into gasoline, that means China has reached peak petroleum demand. China has an oil demand of... . Oct 11, 2023 and In the latest outlook out today, Sinopec says that China’s coal consumption, which anchors the country’s energy security, will stop growing around 2025. as to reduce oil and coal imports on a long term basis who do you think is going to jump in and replace their import demand.....?????? the US consumer????????????? not happening U.S. oil consumption by year to 2022 | Statista newflash for you and your low IQ Oil loving friends....NO ONE then to another poster you post............... If you was my neighbor.............. Big tough boy BS you resort to veiled threats on an internet chat................makes you look like a bigger fool than you already have proven yourself to be Your mouth just runs and runs... Chinese Battery Makers Slam Brakes on German Expansion as EV Sales Stall | OilPrice.com More sad news in The EV crap market then to another poster you post............... If you was my neighbor.............. Big tough boy BS And your mind runs to violence. Low IQ? If that is what you imagine. Edited June 1 by Old-Ruffneck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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