Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 6 (edited) 7 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Because they are everywhere and convenient. Once again, do not confuse popularity or usage with "goodness." Junk food, alcohol, cigarettes, and other drugs are very popular but that does not make them good. Plastics are fairly recyclable and so are not completely consumed like fossil fuels. Let's rank that like junk food. Very popular. Nat gas burns very cleanly. Let's rank that as coffee, one of the most popular drugs. Gasoline burns fairly cleanly in a modern engine. Let's rank that like alcohol. Also very popular. Coal is filth and degrades health quickly. Let's rank that as meth or Fentanyl. Unfortunately very popular but also very bad. Have never understood why they stopped using plastic bags at stores, I now have trouble getting enough plastic bags for my garbage bins, very inconvenient. My garbage containers are all plastic, but I do not ingest them with food. Most pharmaceuticals come in plastic containers, so I guess the medical industry is comfortable with them. Not sure what your point is. Edited June 7 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 7 Coal is toast....one solar panel at a time https://renews.biz/93688/new-us-solar-additions-nudge-12gw-in-q1/ New US solar additions nudge 12GW in Q1 ‘Massive growth’ in the utility-scale market is driving record deployment figures, says SEIA and Wood Mackenzie The US installed nearly 12GW of new solar capacity in Q1 2024, bringing total installed capacity to 200GW in the country. 6 June 2024 Solar https://www.powermag.com/u-s-solar-sector-shows-record-setting-growth/ Renewables U.S. Solar Sector Shows Record-Setting Growth A new report from two leading energy industry groups said a record 11 GW of new solar power module manufacturing capacity entered service during the first three months of this year, representing the largest quarter of solar manufacturing growth in U.S. history. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP June 7 13 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Rob, wake up. EVs are tanking, no one wants those clunkers. Just read the numbers. No, they were not fabricated by climate deniers, they represent the results of foolish government policies supported by you. "With each day that goes by, there is more and more news indicating the EV market is saturated. First, it was manufacturers cutting back on EV investments, then a gradual shift back to hybrid vehicles - and now it's China pulling out of investments in Germany due to lack of demand." https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Chinese-Battery-Makers-Slam-Brakes-on-German-Expansion-as-EV-Sales-Stall.html Bwahahaha Me wake up your quoting old stuff pal! If like for like EV's are a lot cheaper to buy and run than ICE equivalents then what do you think Joe public is gonna do??? Hmmmm i wonder Let the market decide without massive levies on those cheap EV's and there will be mass uptake the like of which we havent seen before. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 7 (edited) Reproductive harm to children. Thanks coal! https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240605-how-air-pollution-is-impacting-girls-puberty?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us "Some of the major culprits appear to be toxic gases such as sulphur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide and ozone, all of which are released into the air either through vehicle emissions or waste produced by manufacturing plants. In 2022, a study from scientists in Poland, a country known for its poor air quality due to the prevalence of coal-burning factories, examined data from 1,257 women, and found a link between greater exposure to nitrogen gases and menstruation occurring before the age of 11." Edited June 7 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 7 (edited) 18 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Have never understood why they stopped using plastic bags at stores, I now have trouble getting enough plastic bags for my garbage bins, very inconvenient. My garbage containers are all plastic, but I do not ingest them with food. Most pharmaceuticals come in plastic containers, so I guess the medical industry is comfortable with them. Not sure what your point is. I clearly was responding to the query of why we use plastic. I mentioned convenience, then you reply about lack of plastic is inconvenient. The problem isn't eating new plastic from containers or pill bottles, it is the partially degraded micro-plastics that accumulate in the environment and your body. Plastic breaks down at the macro level quite quickly; it becomes brittle and cracks up. At the micro level it is highly resistant to degradation. If you enjoy eating seafood you don't want the sea to be full of plastic garbage. Simple. Convenient petrochemicals is the reason why we have plastic waste everywhere. Production of disposable paper bags or reusable cotton bags might even produce more CO2 than a little plastic bag; but once again, here the problem is not global warming it is old-fashioned toxic waste - from oil. Edited June 7 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 7 14 hours ago, notsonice said: Coal is toast....one solar panel at a time https://renews.biz/93688/new-us-solar-additions-nudge-12gw-in-q1/ New US solar additions nudge 12GW in Q1 ‘Massive growth’ in the utility-scale market is driving record deployment figures, says SEIA and Wood Mackenzie The US installed nearly 12GW of new solar capacity in Q1 2024, bringing total installed capacity to 200GW in the country. 6 June 2024 Solar https://www.powermag.com/u-s-solar-sector-shows-record-setting-growth/ Renewables U.S. Solar Sector Shows Record-Setting Growth A new report from two leading energy industry groups said a record 11 GW of new solar power module manufacturing capacity entered service during the first three months of this year, representing the largest quarter of solar manufacturing growth in U.S. history. Coal demand is now at historic highs...so what you are saying is not understandable. https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-set-to-remain-at-record-levels-in-2023 "Coal consumption in 2022 rose by 3.3% to 8.3 billion tonnes, setting a new record, according to the IEA’s mid-year Coal Market Update, which was published today. In 2023 and 2024, small declines in coal-fired power generation are likely to be offset by rises in industrial use of coal, the report predicts, although there are wide variations between geographic regions." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 7 11 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Bwahahaha Me wake up your quoting old stuff pal! If like for like EV's are a lot cheaper to buy and run than ICE equivalents then what do you think Joe public is gonna do??? Hmmmm i wonder Let the market decide without massive levies on those cheap EV's and there will be mass uptake the like of which we havent seen before. Joe Public has already turned his back on your crazy leaders and their crazy schemes. EVs are tanking everywhere. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 7 37 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Reproductive harm to children. Thanks coal! https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240605-how-air-pollution-is-impacting-girls-puberty?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us "Some of the major culprits appear to be toxic gases such as sulphur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide and ozone, all of which are released into the air either through vehicle emissions or waste produced by manufacturing plants. In 2022, a study from scientists in Poland, a country known for its poor air quality due to the prevalence of coal-burning factories, examined data from 1,257 women, and found a link between greater exposure to nitrogen gases and menstruation occurring before the age of 11." All you can find are one-sided propaganda blurbs? That is sad. You need to show us some recent data linking coal use to serious illnesses. Otherwise this fails to impress. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 7 22 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: I clearly was responding to the query of why we use plastic. I mentioned convenience, then you reply about lack of plastic is inconvenient. The problem isn't eating new plastic from containers or pill bottles, it is the partially degraded micro-plastics that accumulate in the environment and your body. Plastic breaks down at the macro level quite quickly; it becomes brittle and cracks up. At the micro level it is highly resistant to degradation. If you enjoy eating seafood you don't want the sea to be full of plastic garbage. Simple. Convenient petrochemicals is the reason why we have plastic waste everywhere. Production of disposable paper bags or reusable cotton bags might even produce more CO2 than a little plastic bag; but once again, here the problem is not global warming it is old-fashioned toxic waste - from oil. Again, we need some data, which I guess you do not have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 7 9 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: All you can find are one-sided propaganda blurbs? That is sad. You need to show us some recent data linking coal use to serious illnesses. Otherwise this fails to impress. The BBC article directly links you to the published science. You dismiss things without even looking due to your biases. https://www.e-emj.org/journal/emj/emj-47-2/pdf/emj-47-2-20.pdf 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 7 10 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Again, we need some data, which I guess you do not have. You can search for yourself. It should be fairly common sense that eating little bits of plastic is not a good idea. Why don't you show a safety study demonstrating that exposure to coal dust or it's combustion products is harmless? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 7 Would you need a peer reviewed study to know this exhaust is dirty? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 8 8 hours ago, TailingsPond said: The BBC article directly links you to the published science. You dismiss things without even looking due to your biases. https://www.e-emj.org/journal/emj/emj-47-2/pdf/emj-47-2-20.pdf One illness? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 8 8 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You can search for yourself. It should be fairly common sense that eating little bits of plastic is not a good idea. Why don't you show a safety study demonstrating that exposure to coal dust or it's combustion products is harmless? Show me something that shows the safety of lithium and cobalt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL June 8 8 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Would you need a peer reviewed study to know this exhaust is dirty? You mean that a vehicle without a catalytic converter is not clean? You call that science? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 8 6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: You mean that a vehicle without a catalytic converter is not clean? You call that science? Did you read the question? Do you need a paper to know that the exhaust is dirty? The point was I don't need to show a paper for you to know the exhaust is dirty. You can see the pollution, just like at the coal mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 8 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: One illness? You know that air pollution is linked to more than one illness. This is just one more example. If you had any female children or grandchildren you might care a bit more about their increased cancer risk. Feel free to take a gander at the over 2000 papers on PM 2.5. The list of illness is very long indeed. Yay coal! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=PM+2.5 Edited June 8 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 8 Zero emissions means zero, not "made a bit better" with a catalytic converter or smokestack scrubber. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE June 8 26 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Show me something that shows the safety of lithium and cobalt. I already showed you the mining data comparison. A lithium mine releases less than 0.05% of the PM pollution than a coal mine. Once again, not CO2, old-fashioned toxic waste. "Let's compare: Coal mine 41,737 tonnes of particulate matter released per year. Li mine 19.7 tonnes of particulate matter released per year." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloodman33 + 22 TJ June 8 The south is frying because of the heat dome caused by the C02 emissions from oil and gas. These companies need to held accountable. Their profits need to be taxed at 70% where some of the money pays for relief for the poor in these areas to get air conditioning. They need to be punished for the 30 years worth of lies causing us to slow down the going green initiatives in the US. Natural gas and coal power plants should have been replaced by small newly designed Nuclear power plants 20 years ago. Some with wind and solar. Hold them accountable. Silence the shills on this board. Corporate Fascism should have NO voice! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 8 (edited) 18 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Coal demand is now at historic highs...so what you are saying is not understandable. https://www.iea.org/news/global-coal-demand-set-to-remain-at-record-levels-in-2023 "Coal consumption in 2022 rose by 3.3% to 8.3 billion tonnes, setting a new record, according to the IEA’s mid-year Coal Market Update, which was published today. In 2023 and 2024, small declines in coal-fired power generation are likely to be offset by rises in industrial use of coal, the report predicts, although there are wide variations between geographic regions." hate to burst your bubble but 2022 was not a record year (this info has been posted before....I do understand your memory is not to good...so please go look at the last energy review published which was on June 20, 2023. now you are praying for a dead cat bounce in 2023 to beat out 2014.............going to be tight but no booming increase in output since 2014........flatttttttttttttttt.......and from now on it is all down hill thanks to those pesky solar panels.....billions of them being installed every year now.....billions What is the energy review?????? BP put it out for years now the KPMG puts it out on the web for EI (Energy Institute) the info for 2023 has not been released yet but from what you posted .....2023 and 2024, small declines in coal-fired power generation are likely to be offset by rises in industrial use of coal...means 2023 could also fall short of 2014......... the 2024 review, which contains the numbers for 2023.... will be published??????? The new 2024 edition of the Statistical Review of World Energy will be published on Thursday 20 June 2024, providing free-to-access data on global energy production, consumption, trade and emissions for the full year 2023. just to refresh you in 2014 the world consumption of coal was 161.49 Exajoules and in 2022 it was 161.47......so once again 2022 was not a record year..... I put the table of values back to 2008 below....but you do not have to believe what I post ....just click on the link and read the review yourself...all the historical data for all energy sources is presented. PS the Chinese pumped up tonnage coming out of mine mouths in 2022 meet their mandated totals....Mine tonnage is always based on what comes out of the mine including waste/ash that is contained in what is called raw coal.........More ash and more waste (shale partings, floor and cap rock etc) increases tonnage but does not increase energy content....IE you can mine the crap out of a weak floor and ship crap out with your coal but it earns you nothing but deductions when you settle up with your buyer.......Coal is sold by its energy content......Mining the floor does impress bean counters You would know this if you ever worked at a coal mine or prep plant...... https://kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2023/06/statistical-review-of-world-energy-2023.html World Coal Consumption Year Exajoules 2008 146.81 2009 144.52 2010 150.97 2011 158.03 2012 158.48 2013 160.81 2014 161.49 2015 157.21 2016 153.77 2017 155.27 2018 157.66 2019 156.72 2020 152.04 2021 160.43 2022 161.47 Edited June 8 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 June 8 (edited) On 6/6/2024 at 5:24 AM, notsonice said: plastics are great???? Just wish we would work a little harder to get them out of our bloodstream.... smart people learn from our mistakes and work to change are ways for a better life.....slow people just ignore what is going on and complain like hell that they are victims when their health fails. It is only a matter of time that a link between microplastics and some ailment is found. And only a matter of time for all food products to be tested for microplastics...followed by limits no different than mouse droppings in the food you buy. For me getting in shape is Number 1 priority....losing unnecessary fat around the belly..staying away from real crappy foods.....IE those containing corn by products...corn sugars IE no more soda.....Minimizing plastic in the kitchen at all levels Recently, scientists discovered microplastics in human blood: About 77% of the people who were tested were found to have microplastics in their bloodstream. While this is sobering fact, it's not surprising, says Philip Kuriakose, M.D., a hematologist and medical oncologist at the Henry Ford Cancer Institute.Apr 18, 2022 Microplastics Have Been Found In The Human Bloodstream Microplastics found in human blood for first time | Plastics The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com › environment › mar › m... Mar 25, 2022 — A recent study found that microplastics can latch on to the outer membranes of red blood cells and may limit their ability to transport oxygen. Discovery and quantification of plastic particle pollution in ... National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › ... by HA Leslie · 2022 · Cited by 1693 — This pioneering human biomonitoring study demonstrated that plastic particles are bioavailable for uptake into the human bloodstream. An understanding of the ... Could microplastics in human blood pose a health risk? MedicalNewsToday https://www.medicalnewstoday.com › articles › could-... The researchers suggest several ways the plastics may have entered the bloodstream — via air, food, water, personal care products such as toothpaste and lip ... Microplastics are in our bodies. Here's why we don't know ... Science News https://www.sciencenews.org › article › microplastics-hu... Mar 24, 2023 — A recent pilot study commissioned by the Plastic Soup Foundation found microplastics in all blood samples collected from pigs and cows on Dutch ... Looking at the image of microplastic and report that mentioned 77% of subjects investigated has microplastic in their blood stream, pardon my ignorant, but how does it get there? Assumption 1. Drinking water - if the source of drinking water is highland reservoirs, wondering if it would pass through polluted water, with all sorts of garbage, before being treated and distributed to consumers? - if the source is polluted riverine water, how could the government allow polluted riverine water to be in used? - if the source is seawater, a place where all garbage dumped into the rivers, especially in developing and less developed countries or population, eventually gather, the processes of getting drinking water from seawater might involve evaporation or osmosis? If all the above are not how microplastic escape water processes, how did those plastic be found in the blood of subjects of research? Assumption 2: eating Assuming food contains microplastic. Ingested food goes through digestive track. No enzyme to break them down further. a) how would they be absorbed into the blood? Plastic melts into fat and oil ingested? If so, it should be liver where they are probably found, yes? b) if microplastic is not absorbed, it should be defecated and be found in the feces, yes? To tackle the issue, could there be scientific distortion of facts to make it more urgent? Why not start from a more direct and effective method i.e. educate those who do not know on how to dispose garbage properly? For examples a) syllabus that teaches the kids basic ethics e.g. - pick up trash if see one; - train them to throw garbage into garbage bins only - punish the violaters until there is habitual change b) have frequent community programmes e.g. area cleaning ( plastics, any other garbage seen etc); clear the drain from grass, garbage etc; build them incinerator or teach the municipality on how to schedule regular garbage pick up... By cutting the amount of plastic scattered by the source, the effort to do riverine clean up, beach clean up, ocean clean up, would be much easier. Each community do their part, not only own country but adjacent neighbouring countries will have less problem of garbage influx, yes? 3. Could there be another source i.e. plastic recycling companies? If not mistaken, they have to shred plastic into fine pieces before melting and molding them back to shape. How do they normally handle water used by the facilities? Any special filtration before discharge? Edited June 8 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM June 8 4 minutes ago, specinho said: Looking at the image of microplastic and report that mentioned 77% of subjects investigated has microplastic in their blood stream, pardon my ignorant, but how does it get there? Assumption 1. Drinking water - if the source of drinking water is highland reservoirs, wondering if it would pass through polluted water, with all sorts of garbage, before being treated and distributed to consumers? - if the source is polluted riverine water, how could the government allow polluted riverine water to be in used? - if the source is seawater, a place where all garbage dumped into the rivers, especially in developing and less developed countries or population, eventually gather, the processes of getting drinking water from seawater might involve evaporation or osmosis? If all the above are not how microplastic escape water processes, how did those plastic be found in the blood of subjects of research? Assumption 2: eating Assuming food contains microplastic. Ingested food goes through digestive track. No enzyme to break them down further. a) how would they be absorbed into the blood? Plastic melts into fat and oil ingested? If so, it should be liver where they are probably found, yes? b) if microplastic is not absorbed, it should be defecated and be found in the feces, yes? To tackle the issue, could there be scientific distortion of facts to make it more urgent? Why not start from a more direct and effective method i.e. educate those who do not know how to dispose garbage properly? For examples a) syla microplastic is found in the 1 micron to less than 5 millimeters long...the 1 to 20 micron stuff can easily passed into your bloodstream Note you cannot see stuff that is less than 25 microns with the naked eye...your eyes are not scanning electron microscope the posted photo shows how fine plastics do get ground up everywhere.....time to address food handling and processing to get rid of the generationof micro plastics....IE plastic cutting boards??? better to use wood could there be scientific distortion of facts to make it more urgent???? you tell me ?? on my end the less crap one eats and the less food that touches plastic the better......Less plastic is better than more plastic all I know is they are detecting micro plastics in humans bloodstreams IE plastics are not digested in your stomach or intestines....usually passed out in your poop...usually except for the smallest particles it is the solids that are 1 micron to up to 10 microns that can get passed into the bloodstream anything bigger ?? I doubt it 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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