TailingsPond + 552 GE June 9 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: It is necessary for any worthwhile epidemiological study to examine time series data and correlate the supposed dependent and independent variables. You have to show how trends in one variable correlate with trends in another over time. I guess you skipped stats courses? You don't bother to look at the studies I presented. There are many, go read them. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=PM+2.5 Furthermore, I do not have to show anything. Edited June 9 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iain Fraser Journalist 0 June 9 [URL=https://meettomy.site]Beautiful Girls in your town[/URL] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 668 June 9 https://x.com/wideawake_media/status/1796848959136076071 India: The world's largest floating solar farm is laid to waste by a bout of bad weather. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 10 8 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Look at the current levels, they are still not acceptable. You pretend that technology has solved the problem when, in fact, the problem remains. In particular, pun intended, areas where coal is still extensively used are heavily polluted. If your house was on fire would you be okay with the fire department only half putting out the fire? The levels of fire were "drastically decreased" after all. The trends are massively impressive in terms of reducing toxic particulates from fossil fuels, almost entirely eliminated with very little left to accomplish. On the other hand, the dangers of lithium and cobalt are toxic to humans and will contaminate drinking water for billions of people. Thus, it is the renewable sector which has to account for unacceptable pollution which threatens human life. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 10 (edited) On 6/7/2024 at 3:49 AM, Rob Plant said: Bwahahaha Me wake up your quoting old stuff pal! If like for like EV's are a lot cheaper to buy and run than ICE equivalents then what do you think Joe public is gonna do??? Hmmmm i wonder Let the market decide without massive levies on those cheap EV's and there will be mass uptake the like of which we havent seen before. Rob, wake up and smell the coffee. UK EVs are spiraling downward in sales trends. Read and learn, https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Car-Industry-Misjudges-Consumer-Demand-for-Electric-Vehicles.html "Tumbling private demand for electric vehicles (EVs) has dominated media headlines throughout this year, fuelling car owners’ concerns over the high cost of making the transition. Car industry data, provided by the sector’s trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), showed sales to private buyers had fallen 7.7 per cent in April. This week’s SMMT data revealed a similar trend, with EV sales to the general public slipping another 2 per cent in May. The decline has prompted calls for the government to introduce taxpayer-funded incentives for buyers and driven a narrative in the Telegraph and Daily Mail that British car owners’ interest in purchasing EVs is waning." The UK driver is getting sick of EVs, and getting sick from EVs. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13433765/ev-driven-gas-cars-charging-stations.html "Electric vehicles cost 63.6 percent more for every 1,000 miles driven per year compared to gasoline cars." "The average cost of an electric car for every 1,000 miles driven per year is $5,108 - compared to $3,056 for a hybrid car, $3,123 for a gasoline car and $4,351 for a plug in hybrid. An expert explained why drivers are hesitant to use electric vehicles, besides the hefty price tags - saying that people are anxious that the car's battery might die and leave them stranded without access to a charging station. 'Range anxiety and charging infrastructure are top-of-mind for EV drivers, and those factors likely limit how far owners will drive them,' said Karl Brauer, iSeeCars Executive Analyst. " "There are growing reports of electric car drivers suffering motion sickness, dizziness and nausea from the vehicles' braking and acceleration systems. And a former Tesla owner has claimed that she experienced nosebleeds, hair loss and 'debilitating' body pains while using the vehicle she purchased in 2021. While she was not entirely sure the Tesla was at fault, the Georgia resident and said her symptoms disappeared after selling the car. Tesla owners have had to trade in some models because the air conditioning systems were prone to mold, which can cause asthma-like symptoms. Tesla has been accused of being the 'worst offender' for causing motion sickness from its one-pedal throttle because they can be 'very jerky and really abrupt,' Ed Kim, president and chief analyst of AutoPacific said. The value of a used Tesla fell by more than $1,000 on average in the first half of January, new figures show." Edited June 10 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,166 DM June 10 10 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You seem to have trouble understanding the context...it is from your own fellow agitators, and even they admit that lithium and cobalt are dangerous substances. Thank you for pointing that out. nice try...... however I do not see that the context is from anyone but yourself, I checked your post and you did not bother to assign your claims in the post to anyone else. and to top it off you started you post with Read carefully,.... so I re - read it just to make sure...and to keep you happy Yep I read it right .......... your own posting contained ........... lithium-ion batteries end up in landfills, they can release carbon dioxide as they decompose. This can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. .. Thanks again for your confirmation that you agree that carbon dioxide can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. . Glad to see you have abandoned your own BS babble that carbon dioxide does not harm the environment. So are you going to trade in your clunker and buy an EV or a Plug in Hybrid?????and reduce your fossil fuels consumption or to eliminate it ????? to help lower your own carbon dioxide releases????? Just asking for a friend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 552 GE June 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The trends are massively impressive in terms of reducing toxic particulates from fossil fuels, almost entirely eliminated with very little left to accomplish. Coal mine 41,737 tonnes of particulate matter released per year. Almost entirely eliminated you say? Enough nonsense. You are not addressing the known emissions from fossil fuel mines. Creating fear about other mines doesn't reduce the coal pollution. Edited June 10 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 552 GE June 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: On the other hand, the dangers of lithium and cobalt are toxic to humans and will contaminate drinking water for billions of people. Cobalt releases? Do you know that coal mines release cobalt? Now you know and should stop promoting coal. 1.31 Kg to Air 21.2 Kg to water Also Cadmium, Lead, Mercury, Arsenic, etc. https://pollution-waste.canada.ca/national-release-inventory/2022/6669 Lithium mines release no cobalt or lithium (they are collecting the lithium, duh). https://pollution-waste.canada.ca/national-release-inventory/2022/2278 Edited June 10 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,688 RP June 10 7 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Rob, wake up and smell the coffee. UK EVs are spiraling downward in sales trends. Read and learn, https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Car-Industry-Misjudges-Consumer-Demand-for-Electric-Vehicles.html "Tumbling private demand for electric vehicles (EVs) has dominated media headlines throughout this year, fuelling car owners’ concerns over the high cost of making the transition. Car industry data, provided by the sector’s trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), showed sales to private buyers had fallen 7.7 per cent in April. This week’s SMMT data revealed a similar trend, with EV sales to the general public slipping another 2 per cent in May. The decline has prompted calls for the government to introduce taxpayer-funded incentives for buyers and driven a narrative in the Telegraph and Daily Mail that British car owners’ interest in purchasing EVs is waning." The UK driver is getting sick of EVs, and getting sick from EVs. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13433765/ev-driven-gas-cars-charging-stations.html "Electric vehicles cost 63.6 percent more for every 1,000 miles driven per year compared to gasoline cars." "The average cost of an electric car for every 1,000 miles driven per year is $5,108 - compared to $3,056 for a hybrid car, $3,123 for a gasoline car and $4,351 for a plug in hybrid. An expert explained why drivers are hesitant to use electric vehicles, besides the hefty price tags - saying that people are anxious that the car's battery might die and leave them stranded without access to a charging station. 'Range anxiety and charging infrastructure are top-of-mind for EV drivers, and those factors likely limit how far owners will drive them,' said Karl Brauer, iSeeCars Executive Analyst. " "There are growing reports of electric car drivers suffering motion sickness, dizziness and nausea from the vehicles' braking and acceleration systems. And a former Tesla owner has claimed that she experienced nosebleeds, hair loss and 'debilitating' body pains while using the vehicle she purchased in 2021. While she was not entirely sure the Tesla was at fault, the Georgia resident and said her symptoms disappeared after selling the car. Tesla owners have had to trade in some models because the air conditioning systems were prone to mold, which can cause asthma-like symptoms. Tesla has been accused of being the 'worst offender' for causing motion sickness from its one-pedal throttle because they can be 'very jerky and really abrupt,' Ed Kim, president and chief analyst of AutoPacific said. The value of a used Tesla fell by more than $1,000 on average in the first half of January, new figures show." The Car Industry Misjudges Consumer Demand for Electric Vehicles The Car Industry Misjudges Consumer Demand for Electric Vehicles | OilPrice.com Oh dear Eco looks like the auto industry got their numbers wrong!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 10 11 hours ago, notsonice said: nice try...... however I do not see that the context is from anyone but yourself, I checked your post and you did not bother to assign your claims in the post to anyone else. and to top it off you started you post with Read carefully,.... so I re - read it just to make sure...and to keep you happy Yep I read it right .......... your own posting contained ........... lithium-ion batteries end up in landfills, they can release carbon dioxide as they decompose. This can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. .. Thanks again for your confirmation that you agree that carbon dioxide can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. . Glad to see you have abandoned your own BS babble that carbon dioxide does not harm the environment. So are you going to trade in your clunker and buy an EV or a Plug in Hybrid?????and reduce your fossil fuels consumption or to eliminate it ????? to help lower your own carbon dioxide releases????? Just asking for a friend No, you are the one supporting the garbage about CO2 being an influence on climate change. I was just pointing out that your own gang is complaining about lithium contributing to CO2 increases, I guess you failed to understand that...no surprise given your usual level of thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 10 11 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Coal mine 41,737 tonnes of particulate matter released per year. Almost entirely eliminated you say? Enough nonsense. You are not addressing the known emissions from fossil fuel mines. Creating fear about other mines doesn't reduce the coal pollution. No, life is about choices, if you choose to eliminate one source of pollution by increasing another and potentially worse source of pollution, you have made a bad trade-off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 10 10 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Cobalt releases? Do you know that coal mines release cobalt? Now you know and should stop promoting coal. 1.31 Kg to Air 21.2 Kg to water Also Cadmium, Lead, Mercury, Arsenic, etc. https://pollution-waste.canada.ca/national-release-inventory/2022/6669 Lithium mines release no cobalt or lithium (they are collecting the lithium, duh). https://pollution-waste.canada.ca/national-release-inventory/2022/2278 Lithium itself is a potentially more dangerous emission than the coal mines, and we have seen a drastic reduction of coal-based pollution with newer technologies, while lithium and cobalt related pollution remains without remediation. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 10 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rob Plant said: The Car Industry Misjudges Consumer Demand for Electric Vehicles The Car Industry Misjudges Consumer Demand for Electric Vehicles | OilPrice.com Oh dear Eco looks like the auto industry got their numbers wrong!! Rob, you miss the fine points...the existing data shows a drastic decline in British EV purchases, and the point about fleet purchases is that no one knows anything about them, it is just a hope and a prayer. Fleet purchases are probably in decline as well, and they certainly will be in decline when the government support for fleet purchases is terminated this coming year. Sorry, old man. Edited June 10 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,688 RP June 10 33 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Rob, you miss the fine points...the existing data shows a drastic decline in British EV purchases, and the point about fleet purchases is that no one knows anything about them, it is just a hope and a prayer. Fleet purchases are probably in decline as well, and they certainly will be in decline when the government support for fleet purchases is terminated this coming year. Sorry, old man. I dont think you read the article buddy "Octopus Electric Vehicles delivers around a thousand cars every month and says order numbers have risen 40 per cent on last year, with over 5,000 companies signed up." The "existing data" as you say is flawed as per the article. The rise of electric vehicles: EVolution of the fleet - PwC UK How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics 2024 - Zapmap (zap-map.com) 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,166 DM June 10 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: No, you are the one supporting the garbage about CO2 being an influence on climate change. I was just pointing out that your own gang is complaining about lithium contributing to CO2 increases, I guess you failed to understand that...no surprise given your usual level of thinking. releases carbon dioxide.................. This can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. .. your post not mine.............. you pointed it out, not me glad to see are posting ..............releases carbon dioxide.................. This can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,166 DM June 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Rob, you miss the fine points...the existing data shows a drastic decline in British EV purchases, and the point about fleet purchases is that no one knows anything about them, it is just a hope and a prayer. Fleet purchases are probably in decline as well, and they certainly will be in decline when the government support for fleet purchases is terminated this coming year. Sorry, old man. .the existing data shows a drastic decline in British EV purchases, and the point about fleet purchases is that no one knows anything about them???? everyone, except you, knows about Fleet purchases...you just need to read the following article and then everyone, including you, knows https://www.pwc.co.uk › services › tax › insights › rise-... The rise of electric vehicles: EVolution of the fleet ; 55%. of drivers intend to buy an EV within the next two years ; > 50%. Just over half of EV owners took ... Edited June 10 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,166 DM June 10 How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics ... Zap-Map https://www.zap-map.com › Ev stats As of the end of May 2024, there are now 1,110,000 fully electric cars on UK roads and a further 656,000 plug-in hybrids. On this electric vehicle (EV) market ... The rise of electric vehicles in fleets across the UK Toomey Leasing Group https://www.toomeylease.com › 2024/04/25 › the-rise-o... Apr 25, 2024 — A study conducted by Geotab has shed light on the electric vehicle (EV) potential within the UK's fleet sector. Analysis of data from 1.3 ... Fleet sector drives surge in electric vehicle adoption Innovation News Network https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com › fleet-sector-d... Apr 22, 2024 — Despite the significant uptick in BEV sales in the fleet and business sector, which accounted for more than three-quarters of overall BEV sales ... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 552 GE June 10 (edited) 21 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Lithium itself is a potentially more dangerous emission than the coal mines, and we have seen a drastic reduction of coal-based pollution with newer technologies, while lithium and cobalt related pollution remains without remediation. The lithium is not being released to the environment, it's put in batteries; It is valuable and recyclable. I showed you the emission data from a lithium mine. Trivial compared to a coal mine. You ignore it as per usual. You have not seen a reduction in coal mine pollution. The air quality in areas where coal is used remains terrible. I showed you real-time air quality data. When the air in those areas reaches "healthy" then you can talk about how coal has been cleaned up. As it is now people are still getting sick and dying from the fossil fuel pollution. Quit lying to yourself about some imaginary clean coal that doesn't exist. Why do you want to emulate China and India? North America generally has good air quality. Right now where I live the score is 45 (good) even with the refineries (but no no coal use). India the score is a terrible 184 (unhealthy). China 186 (unhealthy). As you point out coal use is surging in those areas. https://www.iqair.com/ca/canada https://www.iqair.com/ca/india https://www.iqair.com/ca/china Texas burns the most coal and has degraded air quality. 63 (moderate) in Dallas right now. You can see real time data showing the major coal burning states have worse air. https://www.statista.com/statistics/189862/leading-us-states-in-energy-consumption-from-coal/ https://www.iqair.com/ca/usa Edited June 11 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 11 (edited) 15 hours ago, notsonice said: releases carbon dioxide.................. This can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. .. your post not mine.............. you pointed it out, not me glad to see are posting ..............releases carbon dioxide.................. This can contribute to climate change and have long-term effects on the environment. .. I think that I have sufficiently debunked the idea that CO2 contributes to climate change in any significant way. Edited June 11 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 11 15 hours ago, Rob Plant said: I dont think you read the article buddy "Octopus Electric Vehicles delivers around a thousand cars every month and says order numbers have risen 40 per cent on last year, with over 5,000 companies signed up." The "existing data" as you say is flawed as per the article. The rise of electric vehicles: EVolution of the fleet - PwC UK How many EVs are there in the UK - EV market statistics 2024 - Zapmap (zap-map.com) That is just one company, Rob, no one knows the total numbers of fleet vehicles. We do know that private EV purchases in Britain are sharply down, you have not even attempted to dispute those numbers. "Car industry data, provided by the sector’s trade body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), showed sales to private buyers had fallen 7.7 per cent in April. This week’s SMMT data revealed a similar trend, with EV sales to the general public slipping another 2 per cent in May." That is because government consumer incentives were removed last year, and now that fleet EVs are about to lose their government support, the same will happen to them. How could you miss this, Rob, (or perhaps you just do not want to acknowledge it?) "In a statement, SMMT chief executive Mike Hawes told City A.M. “Salary sacrifice registrations are not listed separately as there is currently no official way to measure them as neither HMRC, DVLA or scheme operators provide this data.”" So there is no overall data for the fleets, you are just hoping that the current trends do not continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,398 DL June 11 11 hours ago, TailingsPond said: The lithium is not being released to the environment, it's put in batteries; It is valuable and recyclable. I showed you the emission data from a lithium mine. Trivial compared to a coal mine. You ignore it as per usual. You have not seen a reduction in coal mine pollution. The air quality in areas where coal is used areas remains terrible. I showed you real-time air quality data. When the air in those areas reaches "healthy" then you can talk about how coal has been cleaned up. As it is now people are still getting sick and dying from the fossil fuel pollution. Quit lying to yourself about some imaginary clean coal that doesn't exist. Why do you want to emulate China and India? North America generally has good air quality. Right now where I live the score is 45 (good) even with the refineries (but no no coal use). India the score is a terrible 184 (unhealthy). China 186 (unhealthy). As you point out coal use is surging in those areas. https://www.iqair.com/ca/canada https://www.iqair.com/ca/india https://www.iqair.com/ca/china Texas burns the most coal and has degraded air quality. 63 (moderate) in Dallas right now. You can see real time data showing the major coal burning states have worse air. https://www.statista.com/statistics/189862/leading-us-states-in-energy-consumption-from-coal/ https://www.iqair.com/ca/usa What you failed to show is a time series correlation of the drastic reduction of fossil fuel particulates with health problems. If fossil fuels and associated particulates are responsible for health issues, what would you expect when the pollutant measures show a drastic decline over the past three decades? Naturally, a decline if fossil fuels are correlated with health problems. That is the type of epidemiological research which policy makers look at to judge future plans, not some fuzzy photos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,688 RP June 11 4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: We do know that private EV purchases in Britain are sharply down, you have not even attempted to dispute those numbers. No, no we dont as most people like myself (if they are employed) will use salary sacrifice to get an EV or PHEV as it saves them money to do so. As the article I posted says none of those numbers are included in the current figures and its very very significant as it makes no sense not to use salary sacrifice. Anyway Notsonice has posted the relevant information which I'm sure you will blindly ignore as it suits your narrative. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,688 RP June 11 2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: What you failed to show is a time series correlation of the drastic reduction of fossil fuel particulates with health problems. If fossil fuels and associated particulates are responsible for health issues, what would you expect when the pollutant measures show a drastic decline over the past three decades? Naturally, a decline if fossil fuels are correlated with health problems. That is the type of epidemiological research which policy makers look at to judge future plans, not some fuzzy photos. Anyone who claims coal is non-pollutive as you do is clearly mentally challenged and there is frankly no point in arguing with someone who refuses to see the truth. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 552 GE June 11 1 minute ago, Ecocharger said: What you failed to show is a time series correlation of the drastic reduction of fossil fuel particulates with health problems. If fossil fuels and associated particulates are responsible for health issues, what would you expect when the pollutant measures show a drastic decline over the past three decades? Naturally, a decline if fossil fuels are correlated with health problems. That is the type of epidemiological research which policy makers look at to judge future plans, not some fuzzy photos. Once again there is no drastic decline. You pretend there was. I show you real-time pollution numbers and you fail to recognize them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 552 GE June 11 4 hours ago, Ecocharger said: I think that I have sufficiently debunked the idea that CO2 contributes to climate change in any significant way. You think wrong. Somehow the green agenda continues despite your opinion. Maybe resend the global leaders your memo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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