Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 18 (edited) 2 hours ago, notsonice said: Ecochump ....did you get the news.........are you partying???????? oh wait the actual prices declined Oil Prices WTI CRUDE • 70.41 -0.78 -1.10% BRENT CRUDE •10 mins 73.14 -0.56 -0.76% did you catch the highlights from the article https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Oil-Prices-Rise-on-Jumbo-Fed-Rate-Cut.html Oil prices began responding to the rate cut immediately, with downward trending prices flattening out just minutes after the rate cut announcement. Huh???????? downward trending prices flattening out?????? Ecochump I will let you reconcile this with your oil demand is getting hot and hotter... oh the other highlight.... Making America Great Again Inflation in the U.S. is now essentially tamed, and this first Fed rate cut since COVID is likely to slash the costs of borrowing from now until the presidential elections, in a boost for the Democrats. Rise on Jumbo Fed Rate Cut | OilPrice.com Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com https://oilprice.com › Latest Energy News 54 minutes ago — At 2:11 p.m. ET on Wednesday, Brent crude was trading up 0.11% at $73.78, while WTI was trading down 0.10% at $71.12. The DOW also jumped 30 ... I've got news for you, buddy...EVs are being offered at giveaway prices, showing the dumpster routine which is currently underway in the EV sector. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2024/09/10/study-shows-major-price-cuts-on-used-electric-vehicles/ "One bright side to the genre’s reversal of fortunes is that new EV transaction prices have been falling to help counter the weakening demand, with automakers offering cash rebates as rich as $7,500-$10,000 this month to help their dealers winnow their inventories." Edited September 18 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM September 18 45 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: I've got news for you, buddy...EVs are being offered at giveaway prices, showing the dumpster routine which is currently underway in the EV sector. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2024/09/10/study-shows-major-price-cuts-on-used-electric-vehicles/ "One bright side to the genre’s reversal of fortunes is that new EV transaction prices have been falling to help counter the weakening demand, with automakers offering cash rebates as rich as $7,500-$10,000 this month to help their dealers winnow their inventories." affordable EVs ........great guess what happens when the prices decrease........... yep you got it sales go up Your economics degree finally gets some use......... and why are prices going down???? because your pal Elon was having a hard time selling his overpriced EVs and to top it off interest rates are going down...oh my do you think with lower prices and lower interest rates sales will go up or down????????? Did you catch the price dropping for your clunkers????? looks like they were in the same boat Axios New vehicle prices are down for the 10th straight month After years of soaring prices, the cost of a new car is falling, per a batch of fresh data out this week. . 1 month ago Enjoy the competition ............ and now back to your love for Oil Your fellow countrymen in China are decreasing their oil consumption......Pesky EVs Axios China's oil slowdown has worldwide implications It's by far the world's largest oil importer, so stalling demand growth is helping push down global prices. . 1 day ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 780 GE September 18 53 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: I've got news for you, buddy...EVs are being offered at giveaway prices, showing the dumpster routine which is currently underway in the EV sector. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2024/09/10/study-shows-major-price-cuts-on-used-electric-vehicles/ "One bright side to the genre’s reversal of fortunes is that new EV transaction prices have been falling to help counter the weakening demand, with automakers offering cash rebates as rich as $7,500-$10,000 this month to help their dealers winnow their inventories." At least you guys can now shut up about EVs being prohibitively expensive to the average Joe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,323 RG September 19 On 9/15/2024 at 11:28 PM, Ron Wagner said: What do you think is the correlation between a booming economy and a 30 trillion dollar debt that may never be paid off? How about an American auto industry that is dying? Real wages dropping? I thought government debt would destroy the US economy back when GW cut taxes and went into two wars. Apparently I was very wrong. lol I look across Houston roads and do not see the auto industry dying. I see many cars. I also see smog. Real wages are affected by inflation maybe caused by the Russians and Saudi cutting oil production? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 19 16 hours ago, notsonice said: affordable EVs ........great guess what happens when the prices decrease........... yep you got it sales go up Your economics degree finally gets some use......... and why are prices going down???? because your pal Elon was having a hard time selling his overpriced EVs and to top it off interest rates are going down...oh my do you think with lower prices and lower interest rates sales will go up or down????????? Did you catch the price dropping for your clunkers????? looks like they were in the same boat Axios New vehicle prices are down for the 10th straight month After years of soaring prices, the cost of a new car is falling, per a batch of fresh data out this week. . 1 month ago Enjoy the competition ............ and now back to your love for Oil Your fellow countrymen in China are decreasing their oil consumption......Pesky EVs Axios China's oil slowdown has worldwide implications It's by far the world's largest oil importer, so stalling demand growth is helping push down global prices. . 1 day ago Your fellow Luddites are decreasing their purchases of EVs...you may borrow my handkerchief, as the price of oil continues to climb. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 19 (edited) 16 hours ago, TailingsPond said: At least you guys can now shut up about EVs being prohibitively expensive to the average Joe. That merely shows the decline in EV sales...sorry, man. Fossil fuels still provide about 99%+ of the transportation sector, and this will continue to be the case going forward. Edited September 19 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 780 GE September 19 2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Your fellow Luddites are decreasing their purchases of EVs...you may borrow my handkerchief, as the price of oil continues to climb. Rising fuel prices would make EVs more desirable. As for rising oil prices you may want to double check your data. This little short-term bump is nothing compared to Y-O-Y losses. One year ago ETI was $89.6 now: $71.7 is lower. Tell me more about the rising oil prices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 780 GE September 19 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: That merely shows the decline in EV sales...sorry, man. Fossil fuels still provide about 99%+ of the transportation sector, and this will continue to be the case going forward. Sales numbers increase with lowered prices. The reduction is called a sale and it is very common in many industries. If you looked you could find fossil vehicles on sale from dealerships. Try not to make up stats. At least you agree that EVs are not prohibitively expensive to the average Joe now. Edited September 19 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 780 GE September 19 17 hours ago, Ecocharger said: EVs are being offered at giveaway prices, showing the dumpster routine which is currently underway in the EV sector. Sounds good to me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM September 19 4 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Your fellow Luddites are decreasing their purchases of EVs...you may borrow my handkerchief, as the price of oil continues to climb. my fellow Luddites???? look in a mirror................so when do you think you will part with your Pacer........the looked cool in 1973 yet they still are not considered a collector car to die for........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM September 19 3 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Rising fuel prices would make EVs more desirable. As for rising oil prices you may want to double check your data. This little short-term bump is nothing compared to Y-O-Y losses. One year ago ETI was $89.6 now: $71.7 is lower. Tell me more about the rising oil prices. dang the price of oil is down down down and the stock markets are up up up One of the forum Luddites claims prosperity is only tied to oil use.......... U.S. has more 401(k) millionaires than ever, report shows The number of "401(k) millionaires" — 401(k) plan participants with balances of at least $1 million — has reached a record high, new data... . 3 weeks ago Yet prosperity in the US is up up up and oil demand......in the dumpster 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 20 (edited) 10 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Sales numbers increase with lowered prices. The reduction is called a sale and it is very common in many industries. If you looked you could find fossil vehicles on sale from dealerships. Try not to make up stats. At least you agree that EVs are not prohibitively expensive to the average Joe now. Nonsense, EV sales are DOWN big-time and this has caused the decline in EV sales prices. EVs are now in full retreat, no surprise, just as predicted here. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/European-Carmakers-Call-for-Urgent-Action-as-EV-Sales-Crash.html "Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations in the European Union tumbled by 44% in August from a year earlier as all new car sales slumped by 18%, the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, ACEA, said on Thursday,..." "The total market share of BEVs dipped to 14.4% from 21% a year earlier. “This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%),” ACEA said today...." "With lower EV sales than expected, major carmakers in the U.S. and Europe are scaling back production of electric vehicles amid overcapacity and are rethinking their ambitious EV sales goals." Edited September 20 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM September 20 (edited) coal is doomed....one solar panel at a time worth the read 593 GW of solar panel installs in 2024......... and annual installations is growing.....2025 750 GW?????????? at 350 watts per panel in 2024 593 GW equals over 1.7 Billion panel installs Ember-climate.org Solar power continues to surge in 2024 | Ember 1 day ago https://ember-climate.org/insights/in-brief/solar-power-continues-to-surge-in-2024/ According to estimates from Ember, BNEF, and SolarPower Europe, the world installed around 450 GW of solar panels in 2023 – an amount that seemed inconceivable even one year before. As an example, in January 2022, BNEF predicted that global solar additions in 2023 would reach just 236 GW. As a result of the higher installations in 2023, forecasts for 2024 have been revised upwards. For example, SolarPower Europe adjusted its forecast for 2024 from 401 GW (June 2023) to 544 GW (June 2024). How much does solar grow after 2024? The massive step up in solar capacity installations in 2023 and 2024 has shifted perceptions around solar’s role in the energy transition. Solar will likely add more GWs in 2024 than the entire global increase in coal power capacity since 2010 (540 GW) Crude Oil Prices Today | OilPrice.com Solar Set to Break Another Record This Year Solar capacity additions this year will likely break their previous record, coming in at 593 GW, according to climate think tank Ember. . 21 hours ago Edited September 20 by notsonice 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM September 20 Coal is doomed.........one battery at a time pv magazine International Global energy storage fleet to surpass 1 TW/3 TWh by 2033, WoodMac says The global energy storage market (excluding pumped hydro) is on track to reach 159 GW/358 GWh by the of 2024 and grow by more than 600% by 2033. . Jul 9, 2024 pv magazine International Energy storage installations rise 61% this year While battery manufacturers have faced tough times in 2024, the sun is shining on the stationary storage market, finds BloombergNEF. . 1 month ago 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 20 (edited) "Oil is HOT and getting HOTTER!!!" Oh wait....... thats Eco talking again. Reality says this:- Can OPEC+ Prevent Another Rout in Oil Prices? What Can OPEC+ Do To Prevent Another Rout in Oil? | OilPrice.com The OPEC+ alliance has delayed unwinding production cuts due to weak oil demand and falling prices. The market is increasingly bearish, with speculators and money managers holding net short positions in oil futures. Analysts predict a continued oil market surplus and lower prices in the coming months due to weak demand and rising supply. Oil Prices Tumble As Traders Slash Bullish Bets Oil Prices Tumble As Traders Slash Bullish Bets | OilPrice.com How are your investments going Eco??? I bet you made a killing on betting on $100/b oil!! Edited September 20 by Rob Plant 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 20 6 hours ago, Rob Plant said: "Oil is HOT and getting HOTTER!!!" Oh wait....... thats Eco talking again. Reality says this:- Can OPEC+ Prevent Another Rout in Oil Prices? What Can OPEC+ Do To Prevent Another Rout in Oil? | OilPrice.com The OPEC+ alliance has delayed unwinding production cuts due to weak oil demand and falling prices. The market is increasingly bearish, with speculators and money managers holding net short positions in oil futures. Analysts predict a continued oil market surplus and lower prices in the coming months due to weak demand and rising supply. Oil Prices Tumble As Traders Slash Bullish Bets Oil Prices Tumble As Traders Slash Bullish Bets | OilPrice.com How are your investments going Eco??? I bet you made a killing on betting on $100/b oil!! Rob, you really are in a defensive mood today. I guess that you finally woke up to the state of EV sales? It's about time, instead of your usual denial routine. EVs are now in full retreat, no surprise, just as I predicted here. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/European-Carmakers-Call-for-Urgent-Action-as-EV-Sales-Crash.html "Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations in the European Union tumbled by 44% in August from a year earlier as all new car sales slumped by 18%, the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, ACEA, said on Thursday,..." "The total market share of BEVs dipped to 14.4% from 21% a year earlier. “This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%),” ACEA said today...." "With lower EV sales than expected, major carmakers in the U.S. and Europe are scaling back production of electric vehicles amid overcapacity and are rethinking their ambitious EV sales goals." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 780 GE September 20 (edited) 16 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Nonsense, EV sales are DOWN big-time and this has caused the decline in EV sales prices. Yes sale numbers are down so they do a sale to increase sale numbers. Sales (price reductions) are done in many industries especially near year end when new models come out (hint most new models at the car shows will be EVs). Furthermore, you once again fail to understand rates of change and absolute numbers are different. For example when oil prices are in the dumps (like now) you spout off about demand and future projections - you hold out hope for oil in the face of a bad situation. In this case absolute EV car sales are down but you fail to think lowering EV prices will stimulate the rate of sales - you remain pessimistic on EVs in the face of a positive stimulation (lower prices). Being low but rising isn't necessarily better or worse than high and falling. You have deeply ingrained biases which warp your perception of reality. Edited September 20 by TailingsPond 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 21 (edited) 12 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Yes sale numbers are down so they do a sale to increase sale numbers. Sales (price reductions) are done in many industries especially near year end when new models come out (hint most new models at the car shows will be EVs). Furthermore, you once again fail to understand rates of change and absolute numbers are different. For example when oil prices are in the dumps (like now) you spout off about demand and future projections - you hold out hope for oil in the face of a bad situation. In this case absolute EV car sales are down but you fail to think lowering EV prices will stimulate the rate of sales - you remain pessimistic on EVs in the face of a positive stimulation (lower prices). Being low but rising isn't necessarily better or worse than high and falling. You have deeply ingrained biases which warp your perception of reality. " ...sale numbers are down so they do a sale to increase sale numbers." Numbers of EV sales have been dropping severely ever since the government supports for EV consumers were removed...in other words, the specific government supporting trends are now off the table and will not return. The result is obvious. EVs are now in trouble. Numbers of sales are down by huge amounts. Fossil fuel cars have increased their share of the market. Edited September 21 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 780 GE September 21 14 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The result is obvious. EVs are now in trouble. Numbers of sales are down by huge amounts. Fossil fuel cars have increased their share of the market. Just watch, most new car models will continue to be EVs. As you mentioned used EVs are now more easily available to lower income brackets. How did you put it... "giveaway prices?" You don't want a free car? The writing is on the wall and into the laws - the future is electric. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 22 (edited) 52 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Just watch, most new car models will continue to be EVs. As you mentioned used EVs are now more easily available to lower income brackets. How did you put it... "giveaway prices?" You don't want a free car? The writing is on the wall and into the laws - the future is electric. EVs are now in free fall in terms of sales... your spiel is in serious disconnect. No surprise. Edited September 22 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 780 GE September 23 13 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: EVs are now in free fall in terms of sales... your spiel is in serious disconnect. No surprise. You recognize that government subsidies for EV increases the number of EV sales (see a quote below), therefore you understand that lowering the cost of an EV increases sale numbers. "Numbers of EV sales have been dropping severely ever since the government supports for EV consumers were removed" With that established you understand that great deals on new and used EVs will increase sales. Obviously you can't simultaneously say that price increases due to removal of government subsidies will decrease sale numbers at the same time as claiming industry price reductions will not increase sales. The price has an effect or it does not. A great economist such as yourself knows the price has an effect. There is no difference from a MSRP of 55K with a government incentive of 5K than there is MSRP of 50K. Even better is a MSRP of 40K. Also you notice that used EVs are at very reasonable prices, as you put it above "EVs are being offered at giveaway prices." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 23 On 9/20/2024 at 3:48 PM, Ecocharger said: Rob, you really are in a defensive mood today. I guess that you finally woke up to the state of EV sales? It's about time, instead of your usual denial routine. EVs are now in full retreat, no surprise, just as I predicted here. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/European-Carmakers-Call-for-Urgent-Action-as-EV-Sales-Crash.html "Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations in the European Union tumbled by 44% in August from a year earlier as all new car sales slumped by 18%, the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, ACEA, said on Thursday,..." "The total market share of BEVs dipped to 14.4% from 21% a year earlier. “This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%),” ACEA said today...." "With lower EV sales than expected, major carmakers in the U.S. and Europe are scaling back production of electric vehicles amid overcapacity and are rethinking their ambitious EV sales goals." Defensive??? Nooooo Eco I was attacking your terrible predictions on future oil prices that never came true! "Any day now" I never mentioned EV's in my post only linked several articles on the demise of oil!! You are the one as usual who is deflecting and changing the subject! Try responding to my actual post rather than changing the subject of it totally, you may get some credibility back if you can formulate some sort of argument (I doubt it though). 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 23 On 9/20/2024 at 3:48 PM, Ecocharger said: Rob, you really are in a defensive mood today. I guess that you finally woke up to the state of EV sales? It's about time, instead of your usual denial routine. EVs are now in full retreat, no surprise, just as I predicted here. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/European-Carmakers-Call-for-Urgent-Action-as-EV-Sales-Crash.html "Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations in the European Union tumbled by 44% in August from a year earlier as all new car sales slumped by 18%, the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, ACEA, said on Thursday,..." "The total market share of BEVs dipped to 14.4% from 21% a year earlier. “This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%),” ACEA said today...." "With lower EV sales than expected, major carmakers in the U.S. and Europe are scaling back production of electric vehicles amid overcapacity and are rethinking their ambitious EV sales goals." You are talking about specific countries/areas ie France and Germany, NOT globally. We can all cherry pick! What are the key statistics for electric cars in 2024? So far in 2024, electric car sales have remained strong, continuing the upward trend from 2023, a year where almost 14 million new EVs were registered globally. EV sales in 2024 could reach around 17 million, an increase of over 20% compared to 2023 and accounting for over a fifth of total car sales. Highlighting the rapid growth of the EV market is that EV sales in 2023 were more than 6 times higher than in 2018. In the UK, 1.9 million new cars were registered in 2023 – a figure 17.9% up on 2022 due to the easing of the global semiconductor chip shortage. Of these, 314,687 were EVs. To get more detail, our guide to car sales stats explains all. An estimated 16.7 million electric vehicles will be sold worldwide in 2024. Electric car sales increased by 35% in 2023. Electric car sales are now second only to petrol cars in the UK. In 2024, 25% of all new registered vehicles in Europe will be electric. China will remain the world’s largest EV market in 2024. More than one in ten new vehicles sold in 2024 will be electric-powered. More battery electric vehicles (BEV) were sold in 2023 in the UK than ever before with 314,687 registrations (16.5% of all new car sales), while plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) made up 7.4% or 141,311 cars. Seven electric car manufacturers, including Volvo, Mercedes, and Nissan, announced plans to make their vehicles compatible with Tesla’s supercharging network. Since May 2023, the number of rapid and ultra-rapid public charging devices has increased almost 45%. Actually read this link below and learn, its a good read and bang up to date. Electric Car Statistics – Updated September 2024 | heycar UK 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 23 India's Green Transition Gains Momentum with $386 Billion in Funding Pledges India's Green Transition Gains Momentum with $386 Billion in Funding Pledges | OilPrice.com 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,449 DL September 23 17 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You recognize that government subsidies for EV increases the number of EV sales (see a quote below), therefore you understand that lowering the cost of an EV increases sale numbers. "Numbers of EV sales have been dropping severely ever since the government supports for EV consumers were removed" With that established you understand that great deals on new and used EVs will increase sales. Obviously you can't simultaneously say that price increases due to removal of government subsidies will decrease sale numbers at the same time as claiming industry price reductions will not increase sales. The price has an effect or it does not. A great economist such as yourself knows the price has an effect. There is no difference from a MSRP of 55K with a government incentive of 5K than there is MSRP of 50K. Even better is a MSRP of 40K. Also you notice that used EVs are at very reasonable prices, as you put it above "EVs are being offered at giveaway prices." Your story does not work...check the numbers, the natural limits of the EV space are now exhausted. Too bad for your imaginary future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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