Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 23 8 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Defensive??? Nooooo Eco I was attacking your terrible predictions on future oil prices that never came true! "Any day now" I never mentioned EV's in my post only linked several articles on the demise of oil!! You are the one as usual who is deflecting and changing the subject! Try responding to my actual post rather than changing the subject of it totally, you may get some credibility back if you can formulate some sort of argument (I doubt it though). Your pathetic defense of EVs is now in the trash bucket? I guess so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 23 8 hours ago, Rob Plant said: You are talking about specific countries/areas ie France and Germany, NOT globally. We can all cherry pick! What are the key statistics for electric cars in 2024? So far in 2024, electric car sales have remained strong, continuing the upward trend from 2023, a year where almost 14 million new EVs were registered globally. EV sales in 2024 could reach around 17 million, an increase of over 20% compared to 2023 and accounting for over a fifth of total car sales. Highlighting the rapid growth of the EV market is that EV sales in 2023 were more than 6 times higher than in 2018. In the UK, 1.9 million new cars were registered in 2023 – a figure 17.9% up on 2022 due to the easing of the global semiconductor chip shortage. Of these, 314,687 were EVs. To get more detail, our guide to car sales stats explains all. An estimated 16.7 million electric vehicles will be sold worldwide in 2024. Electric car sales increased by 35% in 2023. Electric car sales are now second only to petrol cars in the UK. In 2024, 25% of all new registered vehicles in Europe will be electric. China will remain the world’s largest EV market in 2024. More than one in ten new vehicles sold in 2024 will be electric-powered. More battery electric vehicles (BEV) were sold in 2023 in the UK than ever before with 314,687 registrations (16.5% of all new car sales), while plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) made up 7.4% or 141,311 cars. Seven electric car manufacturers, including Volvo, Mercedes, and Nissan, announced plans to make their vehicles compatible with Tesla’s supercharging network. Since May 2023, the number of rapid and ultra-rapid public charging devices has increased almost 45%. Actually read this link below and learn, its a good read and bang up to date. Electric Car Statistics – Updated September 2024 | heycar UK None of which is relevant to our discussion here, wherein EVs are tanking currently. Get some more up to date information. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rob Plant said: India's Green Transition Gains Momentum with $386 Billion in Funding Pledges India's Green Transition Gains Momentum with $386 Billion in Funding Pledges | OilPrice.com Get some perspective on this, those are not fractional or percentage figures. What we do know is that EVs have reached the natural limits of their market space and are now tanking. End of the Green Revolution...too bad. Here is the key sentence from your government blurb above. "...Trillions of dollars are required for an inclusive energy transition. Naturally, developed countries play a very crucial role in this.”" Naturally...heh heh. Edited September 23 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,555 September 24 9 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Your story does not work...check the numbers, the natural limits of the EV space are now exhausted. Too bad for your imaginary future. Curious. Just what are the "natural limits" in this matter? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,266 DM September 24 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Get some perspective on this, those are not fractional or percentage figures. What we do know is that EVs have reached the natural limits of their market space and are now tanking. End of the Green Revolution...too bad. Here is the key sentence from your government blurb above. "...Trillions of dollars are required for an inclusive energy transition. Naturally, developed countries play a very crucial role in this.”" Naturally...heh heh. What we do know is that EVs have reached the natural limits of their market space and are now tanking.???? 100 percent tariffs would not be necessary if EVs have reached the natural limits in the US and Canadian market space and top it off in China these days ....oh my the natural limits has not been reached if the Chinese were allowed to import their New EVs / inexpensive imports it would wipe out ICE production in the US overnight DIGITIMES Asia Chinese automakers urged to expand abroad amid trade concerns China's new energy vehicle (NEV) supply chain is feeling the impact of geopolitical pressures from countries such as Europe and the United... . 1 hour ago Reality Electrek US sticks to its guns on 'tough, targeted' 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs that will begin this month Four months after the Biden Administration announced plans for the Office of the United States Trade Representative to quadruple tariffs on... . 1 week ago Al Jazeera Canada follows US, imposes 100% tariff on EVs imported from China Canada, following the lead of the United States, says it will impose a 100 percent tariff on Chinese electric vehicle (EV) imports. . 1 month ago CnEVPost China NEV retail at 445,000 in Sept 1-15, up 12% from same period last month China's NEV retail penetration was 53.74 percent in the September 1-15 period, and 45.15 percent year-to-date. . 4 days ago DIGITIMES Asia CnEVPost CPCA expects China's NEV retail to be 1.1 million in Sept, above 1 million for 2nd consecutive month In September, China's passenger NEV retail sales are expected to be around 1.1 million units, up 47.3 percent year-on-year and up 7.3... . 3 days ago Edited September 24 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 24 16 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Your pathetic defense of EVs is now in the trash bucket? I guess so. So you still harp on about EV's when my post never mentioned EV's but was about oil demand destruction! I guess because you cant even stay on topic shows who the pathetic one is doesnt it. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 24 (edited) 16 hours ago, Ecocharger said: None of which is relevant to our discussion here, wherein EVs are tanking currently. Get some more up to date information. Up to date info??? Are you blind the article is from September 2024, cant you read? Just how much more up to date do you want??? I havent got a time machine that can give me October data, have you???? Edited September 24 by Rob Plant 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 24 12 hours ago, turbguy said: Curious. Just what are the "natural limits" in this matter? You have never heard of a demand curve? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 24 11 hours ago, notsonice said: What we do know is that EVs have reached the natural limits of their market space and are now tanking.???? 100 percent tariffs would not be necessary if EVs have reached the natural limits in the US and Canadian market space and top it off in China these days ....oh my the natural limits has not been reached if the Chinese were allowed to import their New EVs / inexpensive imports it would wipe out ICE production in the US overnight DIGITIMES Asia Chinese automakers urged to expand abroad amid trade concerns China's new energy vehicle (NEV) supply chain is feeling the impact of geopolitical pressures from countries such as Europe and the United... . 1 hour ago Reality Electrek US sticks to its guns on 'tough, targeted' 100% tariffs on Chinese EVs that will begin this month Four months after the Biden Administration announced plans for the Office of the United States Trade Representative to quadruple tariffs on... . 1 week ago Al Jazeera Canada follows US, imposes 100% tariff on EVs imported from China Canada, following the lead of the United States, says it will impose a 100 percent tariff on Chinese electric vehicle (EV) imports. . 1 month ago CnEVPost China NEV retail at 445,000 in Sept 1-15, up 12% from same period last month China's NEV retail penetration was 53.74 percent in the September 1-15 period, and 45.15 percent year-to-date. . 4 days ago DIGITIMES Asia CnEVPost CPCA expects China's NEV retail to be 1.1 million in Sept, above 1 million for 2nd consecutive month In September, China's passenger NEV retail sales are expected to be around 1.1 million units, up 47.3 percent year-on-year and up 7.3... . 3 days ago This looks like the EV industry is getting upset about very little. EV demand is already satisfied and trending downward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 24 5 hours ago, Rob Plant said: So you still harp on about EV's when my post never mentioned EV's but was about oil demand destruction! I guess because you cant even stay on topic shows who the pathetic one is doesnt it. I guess you cannot change the topic away from EVs? Your insistence that EVs are still trending upward is getting more ridiculous by the day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, Rob Plant said: So you still harp on about EV's when my post never mentioned EV's but was about oil demand destruction! I guess because you cant even stay on topic shows who the pathetic one is doesnt it. The date of your article is not relevant when the data is mostly prospective and ignores the trend lines. In fact, there is currently a meltdown in European and American demand for EVs. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/European-Carmakers-Call-for-Urgent-Action-as-EV-Sales-Crash.html "Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations in the European Union tumbled by 44% in August from a year earlier as all new car sales slumped by 18%, the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, ACEA, said on Thursday,..." "The total market share of BEVs dipped to 14.4% from 21% a year earlier. “This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%),” ACEA said today...." "With lower EV sales than expected, major carmakers in the U.S. and Europe are scaling back production of electric vehicles amid overcapacity and are rethinking their ambitious EV sales goals." Edited September 24 by Ecocharger 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 25 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The date of your article is not relevant when the data is mostly prospective and ignores the trend lines. "The total market share of BEVs dipped to 14.4% from 21% a year earlier. Ignore trend lines you say? WTI one year ago was $90.4 today it is $71.6. That is a whopping 20.8% drop. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 25 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You have never heard of a demand curve? Don't bring up demand curves and year over year numbers without accepting oil is in the crapper. Data is data, speculation is speculation. Oil also has artificial scarcity on its side (OPEC+ cuts). Edited September 25 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 25 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: This looks like the EV industry is getting upset about very little. EV demand is already satisfied and trending downward. I suspect Ecocharger thinks his partner is satisfied because demand is trending downwards. 😄 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,555 September 25 13 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You have never heard of a demand curve? What are the "natural limits" in the matter. Not a chart or curve, but words please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 25 19 hours ago, Ecocharger said: I guess you cannot change the topic away from EVs? Your insistence that EVs are still trending upward is getting more ridiculous by the day. WTF are you on about AGAIN I wasnt talking about EV's I was talking about demand destruction in the oil industry. Not once did I mention EV's and then since that moment all you have done is mention EV's over and over again! Youre like a broken record, your reply to any topic is that EV sales are going down, we could be talking about who is going to get elected in November and youd say "yeah but EV sales are trending down!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 25 19 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The date of your article is not relevant when the data is mostly prospective and ignores the trend lines. In fact, there is currently a meltdown in European and American demand for EVs. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/European-Carmakers-Call-for-Urgent-Action-as-EV-Sales-Crash.html "Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations in the European Union tumbled by 44% in August from a year earlier as all new car sales slumped by 18%, the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association, ACEA, said on Thursday,..." "The total market share of BEVs dipped to 14.4% from 21% a year earlier. “This was driven by the spectacular drop in the two biggest markets for BEV cars: Germany (-68.8%) and France (-33.1%),” ACEA said today...." "With lower EV sales than expected, major carmakers in the U.S. and Europe are scaling back production of electric vehicles amid overcapacity and are rethinking their ambitious EV sales goals." It clearly states it was updated in September 24!! What is it that you cannot understand about that??? Its very simple, most 3 year olds would understand this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rob Plant said: It clearly states it was updated in September 24!! What is it that you cannot understand about that??? Its very simple, most 3 year olds would understand this. Really? It seems that you have missed the point again, and I will bet that you are older than 3 years. The EU government supports for EVs were removed last year, about August 2023, and since that time we have seen a veritable meltdown in EU sales of new market EVs. That should tell you everything that you need to know. Edited September 25 by Ecocharger 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 25 (edited) 10 hours ago, turbguy said: What are the "natural limits" in the matter. Not a chart or curve, but words please. Natural market limits are the sum of demand for a particular product. For production levels beyond that, you will get price declines on increasing unsold inventories, such as have developed in the EV business. You need to calculate the elasticity of the demand curve for the product to estimate the actual decline in sales. Edited September 25 by Ecocharger 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 25 23 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Really? It seems that you have missed the point again, and I will bet that you are older than 3 years. The EU government supports for EVs were removed last year, about August 2023, and since that time we have seen a veritable meltdown in EU sales of new market EVs. That should tell you everything that you need to know. Now I know the UK is no longer part of the EU, but this is the UK's EV sales Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations also outperformed the market, rising 6.2% to claim a 17.6% market share, up from 16.9% in the same month last year. May 2024 New Car Registrations - SMMT Media Centre in June 2024, 34,034 new electric cars registered, which is 19% of all new car registrations. The total market share for new cars registered with a plug (either fully electric or PHEV) stands at an impressive 28.3%. It seems some markets are down and some are up dependent on government policy and import tariffs of that country. Again ECO anyone can cherry pick a couple of countries! Are China EV sales down??? Its the biggest market in the world so shouldnt be ignored! Just saying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 25 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Now I know the UK is no longer part of the EU, but this is the UK's EV sales Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations also outperformed the market, rising 6.2% to claim a 17.6% market share, up from 16.9% in the same month last year. May 2024 New Car Registrations - SMMT Media Centre in June 2024, 34,034 new electric cars registered, which is 19% of all new car registrations. The total market share for new cars registered with a plug (either fully electric or PHEV) stands at an impressive 28.3%. It seems some markets are down and some are up dependent on government policy and import tariffs of that country. Again ECO anyone can cherry pick a couple of countries! Are China EV sales down??? Its the biggest market in the world so shouldnt be ignored! Just saying! Your own administration rejects the idea that hybrids are acceptable as electric vehicles, so that is just more fossil fuel vehicles. So your country stopped production of vehicles in June? Nothing in July, August, September? I guess not. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,013 GE September 25 Yep tomorrow the green revolution will be gone, no EVs available for sale and trump will be up in the polls. Time to wake up Eco. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,486 DL September 26 (edited) 10 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Now I know the UK is no longer part of the EU, but this is the UK's EV sales Battery electric vehicle (BEV) registrations also outperformed the market, rising 6.2% to claim a 17.6% market share, up from 16.9% in the same month last year. May 2024 New Car Registrations - SMMT Media Centre in June 2024, 34,034 new electric cars registered, which is 19% of all new car registrations. The total market share for new cars registered with a plug (either fully electric or PHEV) stands at an impressive 28.3%. It seems some markets are down and some are up dependent on government policy and import tariffs of that country. Again ECO anyone can cherry pick a couple of countries! Are China EV sales down??? Its the biggest market in the world so shouldnt be ignored! Just saying! Well, here is some information about what is happening in your beloved UK in terms of EVs...brace yourself, my friend. And take advantage of my generous offer to borrow my handkerchief and weep those bitter tears. https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/u-k-car-manufacturing-falls-sharply-amid-factory-transitions-for-evs-7aa4279e U.K. Car Manufacturing Falls Sharply Amid Factory Transitions for EVs Production fell 8.4% on year to 41,271 cars "Production fell 8.4% on year to 41,271 cars. Manufacturing of electrified vehicles—including battery electric, plug-in hybrid and hybrid—plummeted by 25.9% in August, representing 29.6% of total output, the group said." Edited September 26 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,555 September 26 (edited) 11 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Natural market limits are the sum of demand for a particular product. Thank you. That helped. I have to ask: "What is the natural market limit for petroleum"? Edited September 26 by turbguy 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP September 26 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Well, here is some information about what is happening in your beloved UK in terms of EVs...brace yourself, my friend. And take advantage of my generous offer to borrow my handkerchief and weep those bitter tears. https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/u-k-car-manufacturing-falls-sharply-amid-factory-transitions-for-evs-7aa4279e U.K. Car Manufacturing Falls Sharply Amid Factory Transitions for EVs Production fell 8.4% on year to 41,271 cars "Production fell 8.4% on year to 41,271 cars. Manufacturing of electrified vehicles—including battery electric, plug-in hybrid and hybrid—plummeted by 25.9% in August, representing 29.6% of total output, the group said." Youre now talking production levels when we were talking sales! Why cant you ever stick to what we are talking about? If manufacturing plants are converting their factories from ICE production to EV production as your article states then what does that tell you Mr.Economist??? Doesnt it say clearly the disruption to business as usual will mean a decline in general production, but the bigger picture means they are moving away from producing ICE vehicle and moving toward producing EV's! Thanks for totally ruining your own argument, glad to see you finally agree with me old man. Your comment is on a par with Footinmouth's grand tunnel scheme 🤣 Edited September 26 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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