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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

New lithium extraction technologies, like direct lithium extraction, are less environmentally damaging than traditional methods.

Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton."

Cheap lithium will just make EVs cheaper to produce.

Edited by TailingsPond
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(edited)

8 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

It looks like EVs are in serious trouble, especially in Europe, where the failures of government budgets have removed public support for EV sales.

Too bad...excuse me while I weep for the pathetic downturn in EVs, this really hurts.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Could-The-Arkansas-Lithium-Boom-Be-Over-Before-It-Starts.html

"Lithium prices have fallen sharply due to slowing EV demand in key markets like Europe, causing concern about the future of the lithium boom.

New lithium extraction technologies, like direct lithium extraction, are less environmentally damaging than traditional methods.

Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton."

serious trouble????? prices of batteries keeps falling and they are the key component of an EV

 

so the price of EVs is falling and this will cause a downturn in EV sales worldwide or an increase????

I thought from your post you were going to warn your fellow Luddites that becaue lithium prices are 1/5 of what it they were in 2022 that EV prices are going down dramatically and more will now be sold and to stay off the road as those pesky EVs are much faster than your beloved clunkers....Vroommmm Vrooooooooom 

and you have  a degree in Economics????? so you are telling us as the cost of lithium goes down and the Price of EVs goes down that sales are going to go down??????? Must be a theory in Econ that only is presented at Trump U

 

enjoy the reality.....

https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/charted-lithium-ion-batteries-keep-getting-cheaper/

 

Benchmark_5_Lithium-Prices-2013-2023_Website_09232024-5.jpg

Edited by notsonice
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Demand for oil has increased in 2024 even as the production levels of American oil are going up.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Why-US-Oil-Production-Surged-By-65-This-Year.html

"According to the latest Weekly Petroleum Status Report from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, year-to-date daily average oil production is 13.2 million barrels per day. That is 6.5% higher than last year’s record production of 12.5 million BPD."

"The favorable regulatory environment in the U.S. has further bolstered the industry. Energy policies in recent years have generally supported oil and gas exploration, providing incentives for the continued development of domestic resources. This has encouraged producers to ramp up operations and increase output.

Finally, the recovery in oil prices has incentivized more production. After the sharp decline in oil prices during the pandemic, prices have rebounded, making many previously unprofitable projects viable once again. Higher prices have led producers to resume drilling and invest in new projects, contributing to the ongoing surge in U.S. oil production."

You cannot keep a good product down.

 

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(edited)

15 hours ago, notsonice said:

serious trouble????? prices of batteries keeps falling and they are the key component of an EV

 

so the price of EVs is falling and this will cause a downturn in EV sales worldwide or an increase????

I thought from your post you were going to warn your fellow Luddites that becaue lithium prices are 1/5 of what it they were in 2022 that EV prices are going down dramatically and more will now be sold and to stay off the road as those pesky EVs are much faster than your beloved clunkers....Vroommmm Vrooooooooom 

and you have  a degree in Economics????? so you are telling us as the cost of lithium goes down and the Price of EVs goes down that sales are going to go down??????? Must be a theory in Econ that only is presented at Trump U

 

enjoy the reality.....

https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/charted-lithium-ion-batteries-keep-getting-cheaper/

 

Benchmark_5_Lithium-Prices-2013-2023_Website_09232024-5.jpg

Read and learn,

"Lithium prices have fallen sharply due to slowing EV demand in key markets like Europe, causing concern about the future of the lithium boom.

Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton."

"Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton. This was the first time they were down to four-digit territory in three years, as demand for EVs slowed down in key markets, even declining quite substantially across Europe. For context, back in late 2022, lithium prices reached close to $80,000 per ton on expectations of explosive growth in EV sales."

Edited by Ecocharger

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6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Demand for oil has increased in 2024 even as the production levels of American oil are going up.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Why-US-Oil-Production-Surged-By-65-This-Year.html

"According to the latest Weekly Petroleum Status Report from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, year-to-date daily average oil production is 13.2 million barrels per day. That is 6.5% higher than last year’s record production of 12.5 million BPD."

"The favorable regulatory environment in the U.S. has further bolstered the industry. Energy policies in recent years have generally supported oil and gas exploration, providing incentives for the continued development of domestic resources. This has encouraged producers to ramp up operations and increase output.

Finally, the recovery in oil prices has incentivized more production. After the sharp decline in oil prices during the pandemic, prices have rebounded, making many previously unprofitable projects viable once again. Higher prices have led producers to resume drilling and invest in new projects, contributing to the ongoing surge in U.S. oil production."

You cannot keep a good product down.

 

+6.5% production in a year, but the price dropped $84 WTI a year ago, $70 WTI now

Try some math and see if the oil industry is doing better:

1.000(84) = 84 

1.065 (70) = 74.55

(84 - 74.55)/84 = 0.1125  <-- the industry is making over 11% less money than a year ago.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Read and learn,

"Lithium prices have fallen sharply due to slowing EV demand in key markets like Europe, causing concern about the future of the lithium boom.

Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton."

"Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton. This was the first time they were down to four-digit territory in three years, as demand for EVs slowed down in key markets, even declining quite substantially across Europe. For context, back in late 2022, lithium prices reached close to $80,000 per ton on expectations of explosive growth in EV sales."

Lithium carbonate prices are now below $10,000 a ton......which is a reasonable price.......and you are worried??? about what?????

does the lower cost of batteries scare you and your fellow Luddites????? I guess I would be worried if I were you, that is you do not want to see EVs and plug-in hybrids taking over and ruining your oil demand hot and getting hotter BS babble

 

lower lithium prices means lower cost EVs ..............Oh my that must be scary for a Luddite

 

and the fact that Lithium for EVs is recyclable ...oh my can you tell us Oil is recycled much?????

guess what $10,000 to $20,000 per tonne lithium prices are here for the long run.........yep most producers are making hugh profits at those levels and have lots of spare capacity and reserses to keep up with increasing demand for lithium

 

and where is it coming from??? Spodumene and Brines  In the US hugh stockpiles of tails from salt operations in the UTAH salt flats and brines both surface and undergoround that are high in Lithium content. The lithium concentration in the south arm of the Great Salt Lake averages 24 mg/L, but can range from 3–46 mg/L or about 50 grams per cubic meter of brine treated ........50 cents to 1 dollar of Lithium  per cubic meter of brine treated ...........the south are of the salt lake contains 11 billion cubic meters....5 to 10 billion dollars in Lithium just in the surface waters

 

when it is compared to the production of copper (from low grade ores  IE .2 to .3 %  ie 2.5 kg per tonne or about $20 of copper per tonne (which is profitable) lithium production today from brines and spodumene cons has much lower costs per pound than copper and much higher reserves to production ratio

 

WORLD'S BIGGEST MINES

Greenbushes, Western Australia, by Talison Lithium (a joint venture of Tianqi Lithium (002466.SZ), opens new tab, IGO (IGO.AX), opens new tab and Albemarle Corp (ALB.N), opens new tab). Current production capacity at 1.34 million tonnes a year of chemical-grade and technical-grade lithium concentrate.
Pilgangoora, Western Australia, owned by Pilbara Minerals (PLS.AX), opens new tab, produces 360,000 to 380,000 tonnes of spodumene concentrate per annum, with two expansions underway that will increase production capacity to one million tonnes per annum.
 
Mt Cattlin, Western Australia, owned by Allkem (AKE.AX), opens new tab, the company formed from the merger of Orocobre and Galaxy Resources, produced 194,000 tonnes of spodumene concentrate in 2022.
Mibra, Minas Gerais, Brazil, owned by Advanced Metallurgical Group (AMG.AS), opens new tab, produces 90,000 tonnes of spodumene a year, with plans to expand to 130,000 tonnes by the end of Q2 2023.
Mount Marion, Western Australia, owned by Mineral Resources Ltd (MIN.AX), opens new tab, was on track to produce 450,000 to 600,000 tonnes of spodumene as of August 2022, with a targeted expansion to 900,000 tonnes per annum delayed until July 2023.
 
Salar de Atacama, Antofagasta, Chile, owned by Sociedad Quimica y Minera de Chile (SQM) (SQMA.SN), opens new tab, produces 180,000 tonnes of lithium carbonate a year, and expects that to rise to 210,000 by 2024.
Pozuelos-Pastos Grandes lithium salt lake, Argentina, bought by Ganfeng Lithium (002460.SZ), opens new tab, will produce 30,000 tonnes of lithium carbonate starting 2024, and can potentially be expanded to 50,000 tonnes.

 

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pesky batteries ....just not the freind of Luddites who love coal

 

2 October 2024

https://renews.biz/96134/rwe-turns-sod-on-450mw-texan-bess-projects/

RWE has broken ground on three battery energy storage systems (BESS) in Texas with a combined capacity of 450MW. Onsite construction is now underway at RWE's Crowned Heron 1 and Crowned Heron 2 and Cartwheel 1 BESS projects in Texas.12 hours ago
The three BESS projects – Bright Arrow, Big Star and Mesquite 4 – bring RWE's total battery storage capacity in the US to about 512 MW.
 
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(edited)

9 minutes ago, notsonice said:

pesky batteries ....just not the freind of Luddites who love coal

 

2 October 2024

https://renews.biz/96134/rwe-turns-sod-on-450mw-texan-bess-projects/

RWE has broken ground on three battery energy storage systems (BESS) in Texas with a combined capacity of 450MW. Onsite construction is now underway at RWE's Crowned Heron 1 and Crowned Heron 2 and Cartwheel 1 BESS projects in Texas.12 hours ago
The three BESS projects – Bright Arrow, Big Star and Mesquite 4 – bring RWE's total battery storage capacity in the US to about 512 MW.
 

There is no reason to be worried about EVs, they are crumbling all around us due to lower demand.

I guess people have just had enough of EVs....I can understand that.

"Lithium prices have fallen sharply due to slowing EV demand in key markets like Europe, causing concern about the future of the lithium boom.

Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton."

"Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton. This was the first time they were down to four-digit territory in three years, as demand for EVs slowed down in key markets, even declining quite substantially across Europe. For context, back in late 2022, lithium prices reached close to $80,000 per ton on expectations of explosive growth in EV sales."

Edited by Ecocharger
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Time to go into hiding again Eco.

As usual you have no rebuttal for logical arguments.  Cheap Li makes those EV batteries you claimed were prohibitively expensive cheaper.

No rebuttal about how the majority of articles on Oil price say that oil is bearish or how that despite the 6.5% increase in production the industry is down in profitability.

Do you think energy companies drill oil for fun or some sort of devotion to oil? 

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(edited)

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

There is no reason to be worried about EVs, they are crumbling all around us due to lower demand.

I guess people have just had enough of EVs....I can understand that.

"Lithium prices have fallen sharply due to slowing EV demand in key markets like Europe, causing concern about the future of the lithium boom.

Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton."

"Last month, the prices for lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide—the two most popular market forms of the metal—dipped below $10,000 per ton. This was the first time they were down to four-digit territory in three years, as demand for EVs slowed down in key markets, even declining quite substantially across Europe. For context, back in late 2022, lithium prices reached close to $80,000 per ton on expectations of explosive growth in EV sales."

what is crumbling is the world of coal..oh my it looks like another dinosaur bites the dust ...and it was replaced with  Batteries...that has to sting, please keep your chin up  old Chap, the last Luddite hangout in the UK , is closed.....now it is time for you to move on, I hear your North Korean freinds  have no plans to get rid of coal (oh wait they also are changing with the times)

.
 
image.png.68ac08c268446e5822738054bcedf5b8.pngBBC
.
 
 
Edited by notsonice
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On 10/2/2024 at 9:42 PM, TailingsPond said:

+6.5% production in a year, but the price dropped $84 WTI a year ago, $70 WTI now

Try some math and see if the oil industry is doing better:

1.000(84) = 84 

1.065 (70) = 74.55

(84 - 74.55)/84 = 0.1125  <-- the industry is making over 11% less money than a year ago.

 

 

Actually, you are off base as usual, way off base. Future expectations of oil prices are looking rather good.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Goldman-Sachs-Sees-20-Upside-to-Oil-Prices-on-Iran-Supply-Shock.html

"Goldman Sachs predicts a $20 per barrel oil price increase if Iran's oil supply drops due to conflict.

OPEC+ spare capacity could offset some of the supply loss, potentially limiting the price rise.

A more significant disruption in the Middle East could lead to much higher oil prices."

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(edited)

25 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

"Goldman Sachs predicts a $20 per barrel oil price increase if Iran's oil supply drops due to conflict.

I don't need predictions.  I live in the reality at the current time.  I showed you that, right now, the little boost to productivity is more than offset by the price decrease and they are making less money.  You also ignore all the other bearish articles on here, as usual.

Oil's hope right now is war escalation, you rejoice in that?  You want people to die?  Seems like it from this quote "Future expectations of oil prices are looking rather good. [if people die]"

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Are-Lower-Oil-Prices-Jeopardizing-Big-Oils-Shareholder-Payouts.html

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/At-What-Oil-Price-Will-Shale-Drillers-Stop-Drilling.html

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/US-Shale-Hits-Snooze.html

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Saudi-Arabia-Warns-Oil-Prices-Could-Drop-to-50.html

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Low-Prices-Squeeze-US-Oil-and-Gas-Output.html

Edited by TailingsPond

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On 10/2/2024 at 7:29 PM, Ecocharger said:

You cannot keep a good product down.

 

Define a good product; do not confuse useful with good.

Oil is clearly toxic as you would not drink it.  It has a history of causing wars.  The people who produce and sell it are war profiteers, like arms dealers.  Sounds like an agent of evil....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_war

 

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2 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Define a good product; do not confuse useful with good.

Oil is clearly toxic as you would not drink it.  It has a history of causing wars.  The people who produce and sell it are war profiteers, like arms dealers.  Sounds like an agent of evil....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_war

 

No I wouldn't drink, but after refined my vehicles sure do!! Yup, my HellCat does sound "evil" hehehe

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(edited)

9 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

No I wouldn't drink, but after refined my vehicles sure do!! Yup, my HellCat does sound "evil" hehehe

I borrowed my buddies farm truck (an old F250 diesel with loud exhaust) recently and I admit it was fun to drive the noise making smoking beast, and it was very useful.  However, I don't think it would make a "good" daily driver, the noise and air pollution, and it cost a lot to fill up. 

If your truck needs two fuel tanks you know it burns a lot.

Edited by TailingsPond

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1 hour ago, TailingsPond said:

I borrowed my buddies farm truck (an old F250 diesel with loud exhaust) recently and I admit is was fun to drive the noise making smoking beast, and it was very useful.  However, I don't think it would make a "good" daily driver, the noise and air pollution, and it cost a lot to fill up. 

If your truck needs two fuel tanks you know it burns a lot.

Yes, Canadian Diesel is very expensive.  But the black smoke you see is a solid and actually is heavier than air. Like any ICE, the fumes can be lethal like kerosene heaters. 

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(edited)

5 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Define a good product; do not confuse useful with good.

Oil is clearly toxic as you would not drink it.  It has a history of causing wars.  The people who produce and sell it are war profiteers, like arms dealers.  Sounds like an agent of evil....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_war

 

I think that oil is not a "cause" of wars...you really are out of control in your assessments. Like most environmental protesters.

Your source is inconsistent with your rant.

Edited by Ecocharger
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(edited)

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

I think that oil is not a "cause" of wars...you really are out of control in your assessments. Like most environmental protesters.

Your source is inconsistent with your rant.

Plenty of conflicts have been about oil interests, whether directly or indirectly.  If you deny that then you are ignorant or a liar.

You just posted a link saying oil price may jump if war escalates; and you seemed happy about that. 

"Future expectations of oil prices are looking rather good."  Only an evil man would be gleeful about the death of people just because the conflict will cause the belligerents to attack each others oil industries.

You also do not consider that any war-related bump in global oil process can help fund other nations with evil intentions.

Lastly, a war related bump in oil price is temporary.  It does not reflect a long-term change in supply and demand. 

A great economist such as yourself should know that blowing up your competitors factory to raise prices isn't fair economics or capitalism.  If Samsung used secret agents to blow up all of Apples iPhone factories they would have a great year due to temporarily eliminating some competition illegally.  The boost would not be due to a change in global smartphone demand or the quality of the products sold.

You desire artificial scarcity due to elimination of a producer.

Edited by TailingsPond

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(edited)

5 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Plenty of conflicts have been about oil interests, whether directly or indirectly.  If you deny that then you are ignorant or a liar.

You just posted a link saying oil price may jump if war escalates; and you seemed happy about that. 

"Future expectations of oil prices are looking rather good."  Only an evil man would be gleeful about the death of people just because the conflict will cause the belligerents to attack each others oil industries.

You also do not consider that any war-related bump in global oil process can help fund other nations with evil intentions.

Lastly, a war related bump in oil price is temporary.  It does not reflect a long-term change in supply and demand. 

A great economist such as yourself should know that blowing up your competitors factory to raise prices isn't fair economics or capitalism.  If Samsung used secret agents to blow up all of Apples iPhone factories they would have a great year due to temporarily eliminating some competition illegally.  The boost would not be due to a change in global smartphone demand or the quality of the products sold.

You desire artificial scarcity due to elimination of a producer.

A non-economist like yourself should know better than to spread nonsense...let your leaders do this. You obviously have no clue about anything.

Your own link above refuted this garbage in convincing fashion. Read your own material, friend. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_war

"Research by Emily Meierding has characterized oil wars as largely a myth.[1] She argues that proponents of oil wars underestimate the ability to seize and exploit foreign oil fields, and thus exaggerate the value of oil wars. She has examined four cases commonly described as oil wars (Japan's attack on the Dutch East Indies in World War II, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, the Iran-Iraq War, and the Chaco War between Bolivia and Paraguay), finding that control of additional oil resources was not the main cause of aggression in the conflicts.[2]

A 2024 study found that the presence of oil in contested territory can make states less likely to seek to acquire the territory.[3]"

Edited by Ecocharger
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(edited)

12 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

A non-economist like yourself should know better than to spread nonsense...let your leaders do this. You obviously have no clue about anything.

Your own link above refuted this garbage in convincing fashion. Read your own material, friend. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_war

"Research by Emily Meierding has characterized oil wars as largely a myth.[1] She argues that proponents of oil wars underestimate the ability to seize and exploit foreign oil fields, and thus exaggerate the value of oil wars. She has examined four cases commonly described as oil wars (Japan's attack on the Dutch East Indies in World War II, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, the Iran-Iraq War, and the Chaco War between Bolivia and Paraguay), finding that control of additional oil resources was not the main cause of aggression in the conflicts.[2]

A 2024 study found that the presence of oil in contested territory can make states less likely to seek to acquire the territory.[3]"

Do you deny that you are gleeful about the escalating war due to oil interests?

Your words: "Future expectations of oil prices are looking rather good"

The link you promoted:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Goldman-Sachs-Sees-20-Upside-to-Oil-Prices-on-Iran-Supply-Shock.html

"International crude oil prices could surge by $20 per barrel if Iran’s oil supply drops in a possible escalation of the Middle East conflict, Goldman Sachs says."

Logically, that means you think escalation of the middle east conflict is good. 

You know war effects oil prices and you love it.  USA just bought more for SPR... 

You love fossil fuels more than human life as shown time and again.  "Coal is a non-polluter."

Edited by TailingsPond

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23 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Your own link above refuted this garbage in convincing fashion. Read your own material, friend. 

Did you read any or just cherry pick as usual?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwaiti_oil_fires

"The dispute between Iraq and Kuwait over alleged slant-drilling in the Rumaila oil field was one of the reasons for Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990.[5][6]

220px-Kuwaiti_Oil_Well_Fire.jpg Kuwaiti oil well fire, south of Kuwait City, March, 1991

In addition, Kuwait had been producing oil above treaty limits established by OPEC.[7] By the eve of the Iraqi invasion, Kuwait had set production quotas to almost 1.9 million barrels per day (300,000 m3/d), which coincided with a sharp drop in the price of oil. By the summer of 1990, Kuwaiti overproduction had become a serious point of contention with Iraq."

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(edited)

6 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Plenty of conflicts have been about oil interests, whether directly or indirectly.  If you deny that then you are ignorant or a liar.

Well you guys can pick what you think of Eco.  He denies oil wars so is either ignorant or a liar, pick one.  That or tell me you think no wars have been fought over oil. ;)

 

Edited by TailingsPond
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(edited)

On 10/5/2024 at 4:42 AM, TailingsPond said:

I borrowed my buddies farm truck (an old F250 diesel with loud exhaust) recently and I admit it was fun to drive the noise making smoking beast, and it was very useful.  However, I don't think it would make a "good" daily driver, the noise and air pollution, and it cost a lot to fill up. 

If your truck needs two fuel tanks you know it burns a lot.

 

On 10/5/2024 at 5:47 AM, Old-Ruffneck said:

Yes, Canadian Diesel is very expensive.  But the black smoke you see is a solid and actually is heavier than air. Like any ICE, the fumes can be lethal like kerosene heaters. 

It is probably about design and maintenance..... 

When changing lubricant, i used to request rinsing of casket with remaining engine oil from previous change before filling in new one. How do you know it's clean?

When black oil rinsed out turns golden should be the sign.

Many years later, someone invented engine cleaning fuel additive for petrol runned vehicles. It makes thing easier.

Adjusting key for fuel injection point might also clean the engine from white smoke, black smoke.

And few things below for reference.

User of a 4x4 Mitsubishi Hilux mentioned Diesel is probably much  cheaper for long distance, frequent trip, heavy load etc compared to petrol.

 

IMG_20241006_123633.thumb.jpg.6fffed887b1631dacf56b02b565826bb.jpg

Edited by specinho
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(edited)

6 minutes ago, specinho said:

 

It is probably about design and maintenance.....

This was an old farm truck owned by a journeyman mechanic (now power engineer).

It has over 350,000km on it and still runs just fine!

Here is a silly video where they put gas and nitro in one and it doesn't explode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7bE-pTYmNI

Edited by TailingsPond
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