Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 18 (edited) A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry, which is growing by leaps and bounds. This provides a powerful new boost for oil and for fossil fuels. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Researchers-Discover-Algorithm-to-Slash-AI-Energy-Consumption-by-95.html "The increasing energy demands of AI pose a significant challenge to sustainability and decarbonization goals." "AI is expected to represent 3.5 percent of the global electricity consumption by 2030. Together with electric vehicles, AI is on track to add 290 terawatt hours of electricity demand to the United States energy grid over the same period to reach the same level of energy consumption as the entire country of Turkey, the world’s 18th largest economy, according to projections by Rystad Energy. “When you look at the numbers, it is staggering,” Jason Shaw, chairman of the Georgia Public Service Commission, a U.S. electricity regulator, told the Washington Post earlier this year. “It makes you scratch your head and wonder how we ended up in this situation. How were the projections that far off? This has created a challenge like we have never seen before.”" Edited October 18 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM October 18 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry, which is growing by leaps and bounds. This provides a powerful new boost for oil and for fossil fuels. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Researchers-Discover-Algorithm-to-Slash-AI-Energy-Consumption-by-95.html "The increasing energy demands of AI pose a significant challenge to sustainability and decarbonization goals." "AI is expected to represent 3.5 percent of the global electricity consumption by 2030. Together with electric vehicles, AI is on track to add 290 terawatt hours of electricity demand to the United States energy grid over the same period to reach the same level of energy consumption as the entire country of Turkey, the world’s 18th largest economy, according to projections by Rystad Energy. “When you look at the numbers, it is staggering,” Jason Shaw, chairman of the Georgia Public Service Commission, a U.S. electricity regulator, told the Washington Post earlier this year. “It makes you scratch your head and wonder how we ended up in this situation. How were the projections that far off? This has created a challenge like we have never seen before.”" ha ha ha ....love the fact you did not include the title of the artickle......nor the conclusion...... here they are ............Researchers Discover Algorithm to Slash AI Energy Consumption by 95%........Thankfully, it seems that researchers are rising to this challenge, and the way that we run large language models could soon be far more energy-efficient without compromising performance. ha ha ha then you post A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry???????? too funny ......but since you are a Luddite....what else would we expect you to post """"A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry"""" ha ha ha....... try reading the title ...... and the conclusion of the article ..... Thankfully, it seems that researchers are rising to this challenge, and the way that we run large language models could soon be far more energy-efficient without compromising performance. So what is the net??? do you think now that new Coal fired plants will be built in the US?????? ha ha ha .......... did ya Catch the Supreme Court decision the other day????????? enjoy the read...Guess the Supreme Court is now entertaining how Carbon Emissions is to be factored into how we generate electricity The New York Times Supreme Court Allows E.P.A. to Limit Power Plant Emissions The Supreme Court on Wednesday allowed the Environmental Protection Agency to move ahead with its plans to limit carbon emissions by power... . 10 hours ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, notsonice said: ha ha ha ....love the fact you did not include the title of the artickle......nor the conclusion...... here they are ............Researchers Discover Algorithm to Slash AI Energy Consumption by 95%........Thankfully, it seems that researchers are rising to this challenge, and the way that we run large language models could soon be far more energy-efficient without compromising performance. ha ha ha then you post A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry???????? too funny ......but since you are a Luddite....what else would we expect you to post """"A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry"""" ha ha ha....... try reading the title ...... and the conclusion of the article ..... Thankfully, it seems that researchers are rising to this challenge, and the way that we run large language models could soon be far more energy-efficient without compromising performance. So what is the net??? do you think now that new Coal fired plants will be built in the US?????? ha ha ha .......... did ya Catch the Supreme Court decision the other day????????? enjoy the read...Guess the Supreme Court is now entertaining how Carbon Emissions is to be factored into how we generate electricity The New York Times Supreme Court Allows E.P.A. to Limit Power Plant Emissions The Supreme Court on Wednesday allowed the Environmental Protection Agency to move ahead with its plans to limit carbon emissions by power... . 10 hours ago Well, no, that is still in the wild fiction stage, awaiting something to happen. Wake me up when something happens that is actually real. "Could soon be"? Haha... If the Supreme Court wants to stifle growth rates of the American economy, then so be it. Edited October 18 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM October 18 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Well, no, that is still in the wild fiction stage, awaiting something to happen. Wake me up when something happens that is actually real. "Could soon be"? Haha... If the Supreme Court wants to stifle growth rates of the American economy, then so be it. Well, no, that is still in the wild fiction stage, awaiting something to happen??? okay so you are now posting like a Drama Queen so you are waiting for something to happen that ends up creating more electricity demand that then might create the need for more use of fossil fuels??????? dude you are the Drama queen who posted the article (and conveniently left out the title and conclusion as a Drama Queen does) and you went off and started claiming in the future A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry??????? yet you left out the title and conclusion that stated Researchers Discover Algorithm to Slash AI Energy Consumption by 95%........Thankfully, it seems that researchers are rising to this challenge, and the way that we run large language models could soon be far more energy-efficient without compromising performance. this really paints the article as a nothingburger here is reality , overall total consumption of the 3 sectors in the US combined has been flat since 2008 . So for all of your drama queens out there, including Ecochump, do not worry, the expansion of renewables coupled with storage has more than met the need of the decline in fossil fuels generation and the Drama Queens fear that AI is going to cause a need for more fossil fueled generation is just that , a Drama Queens cry Edited October 18 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 18 14 hours ago, Ecocharger said: A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry, which is growing by leaps and bounds. This provides a powerful new boost for oil and for fossil fuels. AI needs energy not necessarily fossil fuels. Many tech companies have pledged to reduce their emissions and are purchasing green energy sources. Another nice thing about AI is you could easily load match it to available power supply if needed. AI is not an essential service and therefore can be slowed down. Just like bitcoin, nobody says you have to mine full tilt all the damn time. How is the price of oil doing? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 18 15 hours ago, Ecocharger said: By subtraction the net worth of non-millionaires is over 90%...these are the folks who will be dependent on fossil fuel cars going forward. You don't have to be that rich to buy an EV. The days of EVs only being super expensive Teslas are long gone; stop clinging to the past. Remember the Ford F150 is the number one seller in the USA and they are not cheap. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 18 (edited) 14 hours ago, notsonice said: Well, no, that is still in the wild fiction stage, awaiting something to happen??? okay so you are now posting like a Drama Queen so you are waiting for something to happen that ends up creating more electricity demand that then might create the need for more use of fossil fuels??????? dude you are the Drama queen who posted the article (and conveniently left out the title and conclusion as a Drama Queen does) and you went off and started claiming in the future A powerful boost for fossil fuel demand is the AI industry??????? yet you left out the title and conclusion that stated Researchers Discover Algorithm to Slash AI Energy Consumption by 95%........Thankfully, it seems that researchers are rising to this challenge, and the way that we run large language models could soon be far more energy-efficient without compromising performance. this really paints the article as a nothingburger here is reality , overall total consumption of the 3 sectors in the US combined has been flat since 2008 . So for all of your drama queens out there, including Ecochump, do not worry, the expansion of renewables coupled with storage has more than met the need of the decline in fossil fuels generation and the Drama Queens fear that AI is going to cause a need for more fossil fueled generation is just that , a Drama Queens cry Do your act somewhere else, fossil fuels in America are strong, all-time high oil production and getting stronger. Before you quote irrelevant support for your expostulations, do some research. China is fossil-fuel dependent for electrical production. China has increased its coal demand to a record high level of imports. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinas-Coal-Imports-Jumped-to-a-Record-High-in-September.html "Chinese imports of coal surged to a monthly high in September, driven by increased consumption and falling international coal prices. China imported last month a total of 47.59 million metric tons of coal, a 13% increase from September 2023, data from the country’s General Administration of Customs showed on Monday." "China's elecricity output from thermal sources – which are predominantly coal-fired – increased by 3.7% in August compared to the same month last year, according to official Chinese data cited by Reuters columnist Clyde Russell." Edited October 18 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 18 2 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You don't have to be that rich to buy an EV. The days of EVs only being super expensive Teslas are long gone; stop clinging to the past. Remember the Ford F150 is the number one seller in the USA and they are not cheap. They are cheap...second-hand. There is no significant second-hand EV market, but there is a huge second-hand fossil fuel vehicle market. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 18 (edited) EVs are in serious trouble, as many Americans doubt that EVs would help with environmental issues. https://jalopnik.com/more-and-more-americans-dont-believe-evs-are-good-for-t-1851656883 "...the number of people that believe EVs are better for the planet than gas cars is even lower in people who aren’t in the market for an electric car. Among those people, just 30 percent of those polled think there is an environmental benefit to owning an EV..." "...the share of car-buying Americans who believe [that EVs are environmentally helpful] has gone down by 5 percentage points in the last two years, from 63% to 58%," " While EVs emit no tailpipe emissions, producing them is hard on the environment and they continue to require electricity to operate. " Edited October 18 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM October 18 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Do your act somewhere else, fossil fuels in America are strong, all-time high oil production and getting stronger. Before you quote irrelevant support for your expostulations, do some research. China is fossil-fuel dependent for electrical production. China has increased its coal demand to a record high level of imports. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinas-Coal-Imports-Jumped-to-a-Record-High-in-September.html "Chinese imports of coal surged to a monthly high in September, driven by increased consumption and falling international coal prices. China imported last month a total of 47.59 million metric tons of coal, a 13% increase from September 2023, data from the country’s General Administration of Customs showed on Monday." "China's elecricity output from thermal sources – which are predominantly coal-fired – increased by 3.7% in August compared to the same month last year, according to official Chinese data cited by Reuters columnist Clyde Russell." Do your act somewhere else???? ha ha ha ....did I touch a nerve ???? Usually Drama Queens, such as yourself really do not like being fact checked........... Did your AI claim of massive needs for more fossil fuel generation come true???? guess you did not like me posting the headline nor conclusion of the article......sorry my posting of the that info makes you out to be a Drama Queen....(again) Coal mining in China is all roses???? How is consumption???? (pesky solar panels in China and wind????? oh boy China's elecricity output from thermal sources?????? up 3.7 percent for one month?????? in total electricity output in China in August 907.4 billion kWh, reflecting the strong increase in clean energy production. Hydropower rose 10.7% in August from the same month in 2023 to reach 163.5 billion kWh, although it is worth noting the pace of growth decelerated from July's 36.2% surge. The contribution of renewables also continued to rise strongly, with solar output surging 21.7% from a year earlier, while wind gained 6.6%. Nuclear generation rose 4.9% in August. May June and July Coal in China.......???? not good as Renewables are now taking over .......did you catch the news??????? electricity consumption so far this year. Coal-fired generation was 8% down from the latter half of 2023 FOSSIL CUTS While coal-fired output during the first half was up from the opening half of 2023, it was down notably from the second half of 2023 due to reduced demand for heating and sluggish industrial electricity consumption so far this year. Coal-fired generation was 8% down from the latter half of 2023, while natural gas-fired generation was down 10.6%. The share of China's total electricity generation from fossil fuels was 62.7% during the opening half of 2024, compared to a 65% share during the latter half of 2023 and 65.7% during the first half of 2023. kudos to you that you found 1 good month...as Usually you cherry pick data as a good Drama Queen does......... then reality..........Peak Coal in China happened....and in India...what happened their coal use dropped this August....Oh my those solar panels once again are raining down on your Drama Queen Parade Bloomberg.com Top Polluter China’s Shrinking Emissions Put Carbon Peak in Play China's carbon dioxide emissions are on track for a first annual decline since 2016, a signal the world's top polluter may have already... . Jul 15, 2024 Rystad Energy China’s wind and solar energy additions eclipse coal in historic first China is undergoing a transformative shift in its energy landscape. For the first time ever, wind and solar energy have as of June this year... . Jul 31, 2024 The Guardian China building two-thirds of world’s wind and solar projects Research published on Thursday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), an NGO, found that China has 180 gigawatts (GW) of utility-scale solar power... . Jul 11, 2024 How is the coal mining business in the US???????? not good................ China is your last hope.....yet their oil demand is cratering...Pesky EVs.....the same ones you claim sales are collapesing.... Since you post so much on China did you catch the latest news????? CarNewsChina.com China sold 1.287 million new energy vehicles in September 2024, up 42.3% YoY In September, China's production and sales of new energy vehicles (NEVs) was 1.307 million and 1.287 million units, respectively,... . 6 days ago EV Markets Reports China exceeds 1 million EV sales in August 2024, setting a new record China's leadership in the global EV market. China's record-breaking August 2024 sales reinforce its position as the world leader in electric vehicle adoption. . 3 weeks ago DIGITIMES Asia New car sales in China increase China saw an increase in new car sales in October, with new energy vehicle (NEV) sales surpassing gasoline cars and rising by 45.8% from the... . 2 days ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 18 (edited) 59 minutes ago, notsonice said: Do your act somewhere else???? ha ha ha ....did I touch a nerve ???? Usually Drama Queens, such as yourself really do not like being fact checked........... Did your AI claim of massive needs for more fossil fuel generation come true???? guess you did not like me posting the headline nor conclusion of the article......sorry my posting of the that info makes you out to be a Drama Queen....(again) Coal mining in China is all roses???? How is consumption???? (pesky solar panels in China and wind????? oh boy China's elecricity output from thermal sources?????? up 3.7 percent for one month?????? in total electricity output in China in August 907.4 billion kWh, reflecting the strong increase in clean energy production. Hydropower rose 10.7% in August from the same month in 2023 to reach 163.5 billion kWh, although it is worth noting the pace of growth decelerated from July's 36.2% surge. The contribution of renewables also continued to rise strongly, with solar output surging 21.7% from a year earlier, while wind gained 6.6%. Nuclear generation rose 4.9% in August. May June and July Coal in China.......???? not good as Renewables are now taking over .......did you catch the news??????? electricity consumption so far this year. Coal-fired generation was 8% down from the latter half of 2023 FOSSIL CUTS While coal-fired output during the first half was up from the opening half of 2023, it was down notably from the second half of 2023 due to reduced demand for heating and sluggish industrial electricity consumption so far this year. Coal-fired generation was 8% down from the latter half of 2023, while natural gas-fired generation was down 10.6%. The share of China's total electricity generation from fossil fuels was 62.7% during the opening half of 2024, compared to a 65% share during the latter half of 2023 and 65.7% during the first half of 2023. kudos to you that you found 1 good month...as Usually you cherry pick data as a good Drama Queen does......... then reality..........Peak Coal in China happened....and in India...what happened their coal use dropped this August....Oh my those solar panels once again are raining down on your Drama Queen Parade Bloomberg.com Top Polluter China’s Shrinking Emissions Put Carbon Peak in Play China's carbon dioxide emissions are on track for a first annual decline since 2016, a signal the world's top polluter may have already... . Jul 15, 2024 Rystad Energy China’s wind and solar energy additions eclipse coal in historic first China is undergoing a transformative shift in its energy landscape. For the first time ever, wind and solar energy have as of June this year... . Jul 31, 2024 The Guardian China building two-thirds of world’s wind and solar projects Research published on Thursday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), an NGO, found that China has 180 gigawatts (GW) of utility-scale solar power... . Jul 11, 2024 How is the coal mining business in the US???????? not good................ China is your last hope.....yet their oil demand is cratering...Pesky EVs.....the same ones you claim sales are collapesing.... Since you post so much on China did you catch the latest news????? CarNewsChina.com China sold 1.287 million new energy vehicles in September 2024, up 42.3% YoY In September, China's production and sales of new energy vehicles (NEVs) was 1.307 million and 1.287 million units, respectively,... . 6 days ago EV Markets Reports China exceeds 1 million EV sales in August 2024, setting a new record China's leadership in the global EV market. China's record-breaking August 2024 sales reinforce its position as the world leader in electric vehicle adoption. . 3 weeks ago DIGITIMES Asia New car sales in China increase China saw an increase in new car sales in October, with new energy vehicle (NEV) sales surpassing gasoline cars and rising by 45.8% from the... . 2 days ago You mean that you think China may be pulling out of its recession? Perhaps, that might explain the increase in coal production over last year, and we will see how Chinese coal continues to increase going forward. Yes, it would appear that AI has increased the need for coal-generated electricity in China. Good. "AI is expected to represent 3.5 percent of the global electricity consumption by 2030" Edited October 18 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 19 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Yes, it would appear that AI has increased the need for coal-generated electricity in China. Good. Why is that good, and why to you continue to promote emulating China? A.I. power usage doesn't really produce a tangible product. So ask yourself what are they using that AI for? They could be working on something deleterious to other nations. So if China increases coal related pollution just to run AI algorithms how does this benefit you? At best it improves their economy, at worst it gives them powerful technology while poisoning the earth with pollution. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 19 1 hour ago, TailingsPond said: Why is that good, and why to you continue to promote emulating China? A.I. power usage doesn't really produce a tangible product. So ask yourself what are they using that AI for? They could be working on something deleterious to other nations. So if China increases coal related pollution just to run AI algorithms how does this benefit you? At best it improves their economy, at worst it gives them powerful technology while poisoning the earth with pollution. Really? Some people are never happy, judging from your rather sour disposition. Actually times are good for the coal suppliers of China. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinas-Coal-Production-Surged-in-September.html "Coal production in China rose by 4.4% in the year last month to a total 414.46 million tons, government data showed. The production rate also rose on the month: the August total stood at 396.55 million tons. The increase followed the end of safety inspections in coal-producing regions and the return of coal-to-chemicals capacity to normal operation after maintenance, Reuters reported." "Coal accounts for about 60% of China’s generation, despite a surge in hydropower earlier this year after abundant rainfall, which reduced the share of coal in the country’s energy mix. Natural gas, in contrast, accounts for less than 10% of generation." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 19 24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Actually times are good for the coal suppliers of China. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Chinas-Coal-Production-Surged-in-September.html The coal supplier of China is China, it is domestic production. How does this benefit you? Increased global pollution and they may be gaining technology advancements due to irresponsible use of AI and toxic fuel sources. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 19 39 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Actually times are good for the coal suppliers of China. The increase followed the end of safety inspections in coal-producing regions and the return of coal-to-chemicals capacity to normal operation after maintenance, Reuters reported." Those pesky safety inspections... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP October 21 On 10/18/2024 at 8:36 PM, Ecocharger said: EVs are in serious trouble, as many Americans doubt that EVs would help with environmental issues. https://jalopnik.com/more-and-more-americans-dont-believe-evs-are-good-for-t-1851656883 "...the number of people that believe EVs are better for the planet than gas cars is even lower in people who aren’t in the market for an electric car. Among those people, just 30 percent of those polled think there is an environmental benefit to owning an EV..." "...the share of car-buying Americans who believe [that EVs are environmentally helpful] has gone down by 5 percentage points in the last two years, from 63% to 58%," " While EVs emit no tailpipe emissions, producing them is hard on the environment and they continue to require electricity to operate. " Just a quick reality check Eco Americans represent a miniscule 4.4% of the global population, so your numbers are insignificant! if you went to Europe or China you would find very different numbers and thought processes represented by the people there. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 21 (edited) 11 hours ago, Rob Plant said: Just a quick reality check Eco Americans represent a miniscule 4.4% of the global population, so your numbers are insignificant! if you went to Europe or China you would find very different numbers and thought processes represented by the people there. Americans buy a disproportionate percentage of world auto production. And they do not get told what to buy by an arrogant politician. The people of Germany and France also make up their own minds about EVs, and that is a big "no". The trend is clear, welcome to reality, "...the share of car-buying Americans who believe [that EVs are environmentally helpful] has gone down by 5 percentage points in the last two years, from 63% to 58%," Edited October 21 by Ecocharger 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 22 5 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Americans buy a disproportionate percentage of world auto production. And they do not get told what to buy by an arrogant politician. A disproportionate percentage yes, but the USA still only buys about 15% of global vehicle production. California is fully in their right to tell you what you can drive, they have been for many years (air care standards, emission checks). You can buy and import whatever you like, just not register or drive it. The auto manufacturers will make cars that can be sold and driven in California, as it is a huge market that can not be ignored. The complaining flyover states just don't matter. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 22 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ecocharger said: And they do not get told what to buy by an arrogant politician. You do know Musk bought Trump right? Tesla owns your arrogant politician! Not that it matters as he will lose again. Edited October 22 by TailingsPond 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL October 22 (edited) 5 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You do know Musk bought Trump right? Tesla owns your arrogant politician! Not that it matters as he will lose again. I will give Trump credit for allowing freedom of purchases in personal transportation, unlike the interventionist stooges who concocted the forcible purchase of EVs and the termination of fossil fuel vehicles. California is a test case of how forced auto market direction will not work. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Industry-Clashes-with-Californias-Regulatory-Environment.html "California's strict environmental regulations have led to higher gasoline prices and supply vulnerabilities in the state. Major oil companies like Chevron and Phillips 66 are relocating or ceasing operations in California due to the challenging regulatory environment. The state's aggressive climate policies may have unintended consequences, including higher costs for consumers and potential fuel shortages." You may have to revise your wild election prediction, look at this, https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-2024-election/prediction-model/president "For the first time in two months Donald Trump has taken the lead in our model, which now gives him a 54 in 100 chance of winning the election. " Edited October 22 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 22 15 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: California is a test case of how forced auto market direction will not work. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Industry-Clashes-with-Californias-Regulatory-Environment.html Major oil companies like Chevron and Phillips 66 are relocating or ceasing operations in California due to the challenging regulatory environment. You start by saying forced market regulation will not work and then follow that up with an example of market regulation working. Too funny! Oil leaving is exactly what they want! 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE October 22 21 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-2024-election/prediction-model/president "For the first time in two months Donald Trump has taken the lead in our model, which now gives him a 54 in 100 chance of winning the election. " Remember the time when you wrote economists do not predict elections? You are too easy, try harder man, you are not even self consistent. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM October 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: I will give Trump credit for allowing freedom of purchases in personal transportation, unlike the interventionist stooges who concocted the forcible purchase of EVs and the termination of fossil fuel vehicles. California is a test case of how forced auto market direction will not work. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Industry-Clashes-with-Californias-Regulatory-Environment.html "California's strict environmental regulations have led to higher gasoline prices and supply vulnerabilities in the state. concocted the forcible purchase of EVs and the termination of fossil fuel vehicles.....Did someone tow your clunker away again????? try to keep up with both of your trailer and clunker payments. Are you being forced to trade your clunker in?????? Are you upset that the clunker you drive today has to meet emmision standards???????? Pretty low bar that you have to maintain your clunker so it does not crank out crap out of its tailpipe Edited October 22 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM October 22 Enjoy the cleaner air Coal and Clunkers are doomed......if you to not like the rules......China could use some immigrants PBS Court upholds California’s authority to set nation-leading vehicle emission rules California can continue to set its own nation-leading vehicle emissions standards, a federal court ruled Tuesday. . Apr 9, 2024 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (.gov) Accomplishments and Successes of Reducing Air Pollution from Transportation in the United States | US EPA Reducing pollution from transportation sources has led to healthier air for Americans. In cities, smog has been visibly reduced. . Aug 20, 2024 The New York Times Supreme Court Allows E.P.A. to Limit Power Plant Emissions It was a provisional victory for the Biden administration, whose climate initiatives have been stymied. A challenge to the rule at issue is... . 5 days ago 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP October 22 14 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Americans buy a disproportionate percentage of world auto production. And they do not get told what to buy by an arrogant politician. The people of Germany and France also make up their own minds about EVs, and that is a big "no". The trend is clear, welcome to reality, "...the share of car-buying Americans who believe [that EVs are environmentally helpful] has gone down by 5 percentage points in the last two years, from 63% to 58%," 58% so still the majority of Americans then! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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