GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Wombat1 + 33]

5 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

This is where the rubber hits the road...the climate alarmist approach to eliminate sources of energy is bringing about a major economic crisis in Europe, and it will only get worse going forward. Even now, events have exploded to reveal the grand strategic failure of the Green Dream.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Get-Ready-For-The-Energy-Price-Shock.html

I read the article, but you clearly failed to read the one that I provided. If you did, you would realise that it is in the interest of oil&gas companies to manipulate the market wherever possible and blame the green energy transition for the resulting high prices for their product so as to decrease the amount of renewable energy and further increase the price of their fossil fuels. Desperate stuff indeed. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

9 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Sure, but if you owned a storage facility, it would be in your interest to make sure it was half empty in the leadup to Winter so there would be a shortage and the price quadrupled? That is the market failure that seems to have occurred in Europe and the UK. The Asians did the opposite, poured billions into LNG plants in Australia then deliberately failed to provide the import terminals in order to create an oversupply of LNG and reduce the price. There is no such thing as a free market in energy Ron. Until Europe gets serious about regulating their storage facilities, Mr Market will find ways to gouge his clients

 

Downvote for abject lazyness.  Russia squeezed supply over that little NS2/Poland/Ukraine geopolitical tussle.  You can have 6 trillion storage facilities waiting to be filled, doesn't make any difference if your SUPPLIER, squeezes you off as they aren't STUPID and know damned well you can't get said supply quickly from elsewhere.  Russian's aren't dumb.  They saw an opportunity and took it unlike arrogant western Europeans and their descendants who think they are somehow entitled to said NG at low prices without putting in the $$$/time/planning to buttress against opportunists. 

As for most of Eastern Asia, from my understanding, they do not have the salt dome geology to turn into storage facilities so the only true way they could buttress against fluctuation is to build more ships(which they are doing) though in my opinion not well enough as I always preffer to have excess capacity in my planning, but hey, what do I know about shipping.... jack squat so....

PS: Just use your original account bud. 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

12 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Some evidence for you Ron...

"Half empty" UK gas pipeline prompts calls for inquiry - The Australian Pipeliner

 

No, this disaster is attributable to government actions.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

4 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

I read the article, but you clearly failed to read the one that I provided. If you did, you would realise that it is in the interest of oil&gas companies to manipulate the market wherever possible and blame the green energy transition for the resulting high prices for their product so as to decrease the amount of renewable energy and further increase the price of their fossil fuels. Desperate stuff indeed. 

If by O&G, you mean countries who have axes to grind, and if you mean green liars who expect the O&G to provide all the expensive backup for when the sun does not shine and the wind does not blow, instead of putting that expense on THEIR tally sheet, then no

Edited September 17, 2021 by footeab@yahoo.com

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

17 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

I read the article, but you clearly failed to read the one that I provided. If you did, you would realise that it is in the interest of oil&gas companies to manipulate the market wherever possible and blame the green energy transition for the resulting high prices for their product so as to decrease the amount of renewable energy and further increase the price of their fossil fuels. Desperate stuff indeed. 

No, this is all the fault of misguided government policies, which have restricted basic energy supplies and taxed the lifeblood out of needed energy for the average person.

There is a looming economic disaster hanging over Europe this coming winter, courtesy of the misguided directions of Green Dream politicians and United Nations propagandists. This crisis will hit poor people the most, the ones who rely on oil and gasoline to drive their cars, and natural gas to heat their homes. The political elite is really hitting the little guy in this revolutionary irresponsible exercise.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/bleak-house-why-europe-faces-steep-winter-energy-bills-2021-09-15/

"But prices have sky-rocketed due to low gas storage stocks, high European Union carbon prices, low liquefied natural gas tanker deliveries due to higher demand from Asia, less gas supplies from Russia than usual, low renewable output and gas and nuclear maintenance outages. Benchmark European gas prices at the Dutch TTF hub have risen by more than 250% since January, while benchmark German and French power contracts have both doubled."

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Here is what to expect going forward with the Green disaster cooked up by irresponsible politicians and UN propagandists. Fundamental industrial production will be challenged to the breaking point by artificially high energy prices, leading to industrial shutdowns and a rapid destruction of the average standard of living for you and I. This is no joke.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/UK-Gas-Price-Surge-Forces-Key-Industrial-Sites-To-Close.html

"Two industrial sites that produce a combined 40 percent of the UK’s fertiliser have been forced to halt operations due to recent record gas prices.

The Times reported that CF Industries had shuttered its plants at Billingham in Teesside and Ince in Cheshire as a direct result of the price spikes.

The closures came as gas prices hit record levels yesterday after a fire at a National Grid facility in Kent forced one of the UK’s crucial power interconnectors to close.

Prices closed in on £2 a therm yesterday, six times higher than a year ago.

As a result of the blaze, the 2 gigawatt cable, which connects the UK’s energy grid to France, will be offline for six months.

This further raises the prospect of an expensive winter for consumers in a market already tight due to a shortage of global gas supply."

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[ronwagn + 6,290]

24 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Some evidence for you Ron...

"Half empty" UK gas pipeline prompts calls for inquiry - The Australian Pipeliner

 

Russia has Europe by the neck. It serves them right for relying on Russia. Hopefully they will delay their green dreams and ramp up their coal while trying to buy LNG from whoever has extra. I think Russia will give them just enough to save them and get a great price. Putin is the main manipulator. I saw this coming due to reports for several weeks. 

[Wombat1 + 33]

3 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Downvote for abject lazyness.  Russia squeezed supply over that little NS2/Poland/Ukraine geopolitical tussle.  You can have 6 trillion storage facilities waiting to be filled, doesn't make any difference if your SUPPLIER, squeezes you off as they aren't STUPID and know damned well you can't get said supply quickly from elsewhere.  Russian's aren't dumb.  They saw an opportunity and took it unlike arrogant western Europeans and their descendants who think they are somehow entitled to said NG at low prices without putting in the $$$/time/planning to buttress against opportunists. 

As for most of Eastern Asia, from my understanding, they do not have the salt dome geology to turn into storage facilities so the only true way they could buttress against fluctuation is to build more ships(which they are doing) though in my opinion not well enough as I always preffer to have excess capacity in my planning, but hey, what do I know about shipping.... jack squat so....

PS: Just use your original account bud. 

Are you upset? You sound upset. Glad I hit a raw nerve. Thought you were a bot until now  PS: Got a new computer and couldn't remember my password and the support was useless. Kept trying to make me pay $600 for a subscription just for the privelege of tutoring you in the art of the real world. REAL WORLD ecocharger. In the real world, big oil and gas companies and their govt's actually try to manipulate the market. You even admitted it yourself but then contradicted yourself and blamed the greenies. As a priveleged euro descendent that lives in a country with the largest exports of LNG on the planet, I say SUCKED IN if you have a problem with high natural gas prices and an equal problem with low natural gas prices. I am bi-polar, but my medication actually works. I think you may suffer from schitzophrenia, judging by your disordered thought processes.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

8 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Are you upset? You sound upset. Glad I hit a raw nerve. Thought you were a bot until now  PS: Got a new computer and couldn't remember my password and the support was useless. Kept trying to make me pay $600 for a subscription just for the privelege of tutoring you in the art of the real world. REAL WORLD ecocharger. In the real world, big oil and gas companies and their govt's actually try to manipulate the market. You even admitted it yourself but then contradicted yourself and blamed the greenies. As a priveleged euro descendent that lives in a country with the largest exports of LNG on the planet, I say SUCKED IN if you have a problem with high natural gas prices and an equal problem with low natural gas prices. I am bi-polar, but my medication actually works. I think you may suffer from schitzophrenia, judging by your disordered thought processes.

The problem now with energy prices is caused by irrational government policies designed to restrict energy availability and tax the stuffings out of the poorer lower-income consumers of oil, gasoline and natural gas.  The result of restricting supplies and over-charging is to line the government's pockets and allow wasteful subsidies of wind and solar panels. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Wombat1 + 33]

6 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Russia has Europe by the neck. It serves them right for relying on Russia. Hopefully they will delay their green dreams and ramp up their coal while trying to buy LNG from whoever has extra. I think Russia will give them just enough to save them and get a great price. Putin is the main manipulator. I saw this coming due to reports for several weeks. 

Well Ron, Australia had a heck of a lot extra LNG for the past 18 months and we couldn't give the stuff away. So much for the ease of storage? Our LNG companies had to slash production by a third and still got virtually nothing for what they COULD sell. All of them just reported massive losses. Of course, it is all thanks to China's plandemic, which caused capex to be slashed to the bone which is now coming back to haunt everyone, but heck, let's blame it on the greenies?

 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

2 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Well Ron, Australia had a heck of a lot extra LNG for the past 18 months and we couldn't give the stuff away. So much for the ease of storage? Our LNG companies had to slash production by a third and still got virtually nothing for what they COULD sell. All of them just reported massive losses. Of course, it is all thanks to China's plandemic, which caused capex to be slashed to the bone which is now coming back to haunt everyone, but heck, let's blame it on the greenies?

 

Blame it on the government hacks who swallowed the nonsense climate alarmism perpetrated by the UN propagandists. 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Here is something to split your sides with laughter, Biden & Co. trying to find someone to blame for increased gasoline prices. Hey fellas, start by looking in the mirror!

If you shut down pipelines and tax the daylights out of basic energy supplies, guess what....that's right, the price goes UP, not down. Wow, what kind of flakey economic advice is the current administration getting? I guess if you ask the wrong people for advice, you get what you deserve.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Biden-Administration-Launches-Probe-Into-Soaring-Gasoline-Prices.html

"U.S. gas prices have risen by as much as 50 percent since the start of the year. Earlier this week, the average reached $3.19 per gallon, Bloomberg noted, citing data from the AAA, which is the highest since October 2014. The reason for the rise appears to be a strong rebound in fuel demand as the U.S. reopened after pandemic lockdowns."

And here is a rich one, Biden asking "where is the oil"? After just shutting down the major pipeline!

"Also last month, the Biden administration called on OPEC+ to boost oil production in order to help U.S. retail gas prices to fall. The call caused a sour reaction in Alberta, which is the biggest supplier of foreign oil to the United States, and no reaction from OPEC+."

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Wombat1 + 33]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Hear is something to split your sides with laughter, Biden & Co. trying to find someone to blame for increased gasoline prices. Hey fellas, start by looking in the mirror!

If you shut down pipelines and tax the daylights out of basic energy supplies, guess what....that's right, the price goes UP, not down. Wow, what kind of flakey economic advice is the current administration getting? I guess if you ask the wrong people for advice, you get what you deserve.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Biden-Administration-Launches-Probe-Into-Soaring-Gasoline-Prices.html

Ecocharger, did you know that when the price of oil hit $150/barrel in 2009, the price of petrol in Australia hit $1.60/litre. The price of petrol is now $1.80/litre despite the fact that the price of oil is less than half of what it was in 2009 and our fuel taxes have only risen by 10 cents/litre. Nothing to do with green policies. Everything to do with a massive spike in refiner margins, caused by China closing down all their "teapot refineries". Again, market manipulation.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

1 hour ago, Wombat1 said:

Ecocharger, did you know that when the price of oil hit $150/barrel in 2009, the price of petrol in Australia hit $1.60/litre. The price of petrol is now $1.80/litre despite the fact that the price of oil is less than half of what it was in 2009 and our fuel taxes have only risen by 10 cents/litre. Nothing to do with green policies. Everything to do with a massive spike in refiner margins, caused by China closing down all their "teapot refineries". Again, market manipulation.

This old canard about price-fixing always comes up when oil prices rise. I was employed myself on a government study of gasoline prices at the pump some years ago in just such a situation, but nothing comes of them. There are levels of price determination beyond the oil price, but the oil price is also going up now, so trying to sort out the market forces in play is a hazardous task. 

Competitive forces could still be high now in the retail gasoline trade, there is a general ease of market entry by new companies, it seems to be a competitive market with several current major firms, it is difficult for such a large group of companies to maintain price discipline, when some smaller ones can gain market share through price reductions. This is a straw man cooked up by Green politicians to try and escape the spotlight of foolish anti-energy policies.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

10 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Ecocharger, did you know that when the price of oil hit $150/barrel in 2009, the price of petrol in Australia hit $1.60/litre. The price of petrol is now $1.80/litre despite the fact that the price of oil is less than half of what it was in 2009 and our fuel taxes have only risen by 10 cents/litre. Nothing to do with green policies. Everything to do with a massive spike in refiner margins, caused by China closing down all their "teapot refineries". Again, market manipulation.

Australia is dependent upon China for oil refinement?

[Wombat1 + 33]

6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

This old canard about price-fixing always comes up when oil prices rise. I was employed myself on a government study of gasoline prices at the pump some years ago in just such a situation, but nothing comes of them. There levels of price determination beyond the oil price, but the oil price is also going up now, so trying to sort out the market forces in play is a hazardous task. 

Competitive forces could still be high now in the retail gasoline trade, there is a general ease of market entry by new companies, it seems to be a competitive market with several current major firms, it is difficult for such a large group of companies to maintain price discipline, when some smaller ones can gain market share through price reductions. This is a straw man cooked up by Green politicians to try and escape the spotlight of foolish anti-energy policies.

But the price of oil is only $70/bbl? Less than half the price during the last spike. And America's federal govt hasn't raised taxes on "gas" for 40 years. I understand that some state govt's there have gas taxes but you are saying on one hand that prices are high everywhere in the USA whilst arguing on the other hand that you have a very competitive market? I don't follow what you are trying to say? Can you please make a coherent argument?

[Wombat1 + 33]

4 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Australia is dependent upon China for oil refinement?

Yup. Very much so. 1/3 from China and 1/3 from Singapore. Like Europe, most of our refineries were closed down in the last decade due to insufficient scale and uncompetitiveness (read high labour costs).

[Wombat1 + 33]

1 minute ago, Wombat1 said:

Yup. Very much so. 1/3 from China and 1/3 from Singapore. Like Europe, most of our refineries were closed down in the last decade due to insufficient scale and uncompetitiveness (read high labour costs).

PS: I just about tore out what remaining hair I had when the last Labour govt gave massive subsidies to the auto manufacturing sector which was doomed to fail anyway (which it did), whilst letting go of our refining capacity and creating a massive risk to our national security. To make matters worse, we don't even have a strategic oil or gasoline reserve. The govt refuses to pay up for their mistakes.

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

37 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Well Ron, Australia had a heck of a lot extra LNG for the past 18 months and we couldn't give the stuff away. So much for the ease of storage? Our LNG companies had to slash production by a third and still got virtually nothing for what they COULD sell. All of them just reported massive losses. Of course, it is all thanks to China's plandemic, which caused capex to be slashed to the bone which is now coming back to haunt everyone, but heck, let's blame it on the greenies?

 

I am very pleased that Australia has stood up to China. I am sorry that LNG was unsuccessful. My understanding is that the world market has a high demand for LNG but if you don't have purchase agreements you are left out. This is the first I have heard of Australian LNG losing money. I would appreciate more information from anyone. I try to keep up on the world and cover many topics, so I miss a lot too. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Natural gas can be stored as natural gas easily or from as CNG or LNG. It can be transported by ship, truck, rail, pipe. Storage is easy and probably cheaper than battery storage (my guess). LNG can be turned back into gaseous uncompressed form or into CNG in very efficent tanks. Northern countries may do well with LNG and other forms may use CNG storage or cavern storage for uncompressed. There is no problem storing natural gas.

I grew up in Los Angeles. The main feature from the top of my garage was the natural gas storage tank downtown. to the right of that the main feature was the Los Angeles city hall. Obviously Los Angeles depends on a lot of natural gas and still does, but it is now stored elsewhere.

http://americanfilmnoir.com/_wp_generated/wpf5b0cae8_05_06.jpg

And it was the failure of one of your super efficient and reliable gas storage facilities in LA that was the great impetus behind our moving to batteries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliso_Canyon_gas_leak

 

[Wombat1 + 33]

23 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

And it was the failure of one of your super efficient and reliable gas storage facilities in LA that was the great impetus behind our moving to batteries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliso_Canyon_gas_leak

 

Laughing with you Jay, not at you

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

7 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Laughing with you Jay, not at you

 

No worries, I got your intent. 

Blackouts looming, California speeds battery deployment after Aliso Canyon gas leak

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/blackouts-looming-california-speeds-battery-deployment-after-aliso-canyon/424241/

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

1 hour ago, Wombat1 said:

But the price of oil is only $70/bbl? Less than half the price during the last spike. And America's federal govt hasn't raised taxes on "gas" for 40 years. I understand that some state govt's there have gas taxes but you are saying on one hand that prices are high everywhere in the USA whilst arguing on the other hand that you have a very competitive market? I don't follow what you are trying to say? Can you please make a coherent argument?

Try and pay attention, and then you will not be confused.

The high prices of energy now world-wide are caused by government attempts to restrict the supply of energy from oil, coal, natural gas. That pushes prices up, especially when the American President shuts down oil pipelines. You do remember that, I hope? That happened recently, and restricts oil supplies. Biden & Co. are trying to deflect attention from their own policies which have driven up gasoline prices by raising an old canard about lack of competition. Nonsense. Oil retailing is a very competitive business, all the studies have shown this, and will show it again. This is just a political ploy to deflect responsibility.

That should be simple enough for you to understand.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

And it was the failure of one of your super efficient and reliable gas storage facilities in LA that was the great impetus behind our moving to batteries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliso_Canyon_gas_leak 

 

That was a very rare occurence, the only one I know of on any scale, to my knowledge. It has to be seen in relation to the vast amounts of natural gas that the world has used throughout history. By comparison, your batteries are insignificant. 

Natural fires of natural gas have been burning for many years. Natural gas was discovered at natural leaks centuries ago. 

https://www.apga.org/apgamainsite/aboutus/facts/history-of-natural-gas#:~:text=Naturally occurring natural gas was,U.S. in Fredonia%2C New York. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/140716-door-to-hell-darvaza-crater-george-kourounis-expedition

Edited September 18, 2021 by ronwagn
add

[Boat + 1,315]

3 hours ago, Wombat1 said:

I read the article, but you clearly failed to read the one that I provided. If you did, you would realise that it is in the interest of oil&gas companies to manipulate the market wherever possible and blame the green energy transition for the resulting high prices for their product so as to decrease the amount of renewable energy and further increase the price of their fossil fuels. Desperate stuff indeed. 

I agree. In the case of Texas you would think as the last big bastion of FF they would make sure the supply of power was well managed. They blew it and here comes renewables and batteries to save the day. Same thing in Australia. They shipped their coal and nat gas to China and let Australians suffer. Here comes renewables and batteries to save the day. Face it. Republican managers and politicians are piss poor at power.