TailingsPond + 476 GE March 27 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said: If you want to know about air pollution this might be the best site for the USA. https://www.epa.gov/outdoor-air-quality-data A government agency! haha. Conspiracy Ron is learning. Edited March 27 by TailingsPond 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 (edited) 2 hours ago, TailingsPond said: A government agency! haha. Conspiracy Ron is learning. Unlike some others on this thread. Here is the EPA, another government agency. Thank you Uncle Joe. More fossil fuels, less smog. "Annual emissions estimates are used as one indicator of the effectiveness of our programs. The graph below shows that between 1980 and 2022, gross domestic product increased 196 percent, vehicle miles traveled increased 108 percent, energy consumption increased 29 percent, and U.S. population grew by 47 percent. During the same time period, total emissions of the six principal air pollutants dropped by 73 percent. " Edited March 28 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: More fossil fuels, less smog. "Annual emissions estimates are used as one indicator of the effectiveness of our programs. The graph below shows that between 1980 and 2022, gross domestic product increased 196 percent, vehicle miles traveled increased 108 percent, energy consumption increased 29 percent, and U.S. population grew by 47 percent. During the same time period, total emissions of the six principal air pollutants dropped by 73 percent. " You probably think house fires are caused by firetrucks. The poor air quality forced the EPA / California to to enact anti-smog regulations. The regulations improved air quality by restricting the amount of pollution ICEs can produce. Once again, the pollution came first, regulatory aid arrived second, lastly the regulations improved air quality. Very similar to: a house fire starts; firefighting aid arrives and applies water; the water puts out the fire. Your "argument" is that the firefighters are so good it is okay to start house fires. Edited March 28 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 I'm so happy we can use the EPA as a reference. Eco and Ron once you comment on a paper, organization, or regulation favourably you give it merit (note, ignoring it gives it less merit eco). So now you have placed some trust with the EPA, you can not call them a crappy organization unless you admit you reference crap. Logic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 https://www.epa.gov/climatechange-science How refreshing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 10 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: You probably think house fires are caused by firetrucks. The poor air quality forced the EPA / California to to enact anti-smog regulations. The regulations improved air quality by restricting the amount of pollution ICEs can produce. Once again, the pollution came first, regulatory aid arrived second, lastly the regulations improved air quality. Very similar to: a house fire starts; firefighting aid arrives and applies water; the water puts out the fire. Your "argument" is that the firefighters are so good it is okay to start house fires. You are ignoring the overall pattern, drastic increase in fossil fuels and drastic decrease in smog. That is the pattern. And I do not need to hear anymore that CO2 is increasing, temperature is increasing, therefore increased CO2 causes increased temperature. That is amateur stuff. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: I'm so happy we can use the EPA as a reference. Eco and Ron once you comment on a paper, organization, or regulation favourably you give it merit (note, ignoring it gives it less merit eco). So now you have placed some trust with the EPA, you can not call them a crappy organization unless you admit you reference crap. Logic Sure, even the EPA sometimes gets it right, about one time in a thousand. More fossil fuels, less smog. "Annual emissions estimates are used as one indicator of the effectiveness of our programs. The graph below shows that between 1980 and 2022, gross domestic product increased 196 percent, vehicle miles traveled increased 108 percent, energy consumption increased 29 percent, and U.S. population grew by 47 percent. During the same time period, total emissions of the six principal air pollutants dropped by 73 percent. " Thank you, Big Brother Joe. Edited March 28 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You are ignoring the overall pattern, drastic increase in fossil fuels and drastic decrease in smog. That is the pattern. And I do not need to hear anymore that CO2 is increasing, temperature is increasing, therefore increased CO2 causes increased temperature. That is amateur stuff. This not about CO2, it is about air quality, I made that very clear a long time ago. Edited March 28 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: More fossil fuels, less smog. Next you will say sugar reduces cavities. For example: John Doe eats lots of sugar; his teeth rot; he gets a bad toothache from one of his many teeth with cavities; he goes to a dentist and the dentist fixes all of his cavities (not just the painful tooth). Dentist gives fluoride treatment. John now eats even more sugar with a mouth full of fillings (but no cavities). More sugar, fewer cavities. Edited March 28 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 Fossil fuels lead to smog, smog provokes regulation, regulations reduce smog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,080 DM March 28 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You are ignoring the overall pattern, drastic increase in fossil fuels and drastic decrease in smog. That is the pattern. And I do not need to hear anymore that CO2 is increasing, temperature is increasing, therefore increased CO2 causes increased temperature. That is amateur stuff. And I do not need to hear anymore that CO2 is increasing, temperature is increasing, therefore increased CO2 causes increased temperature.???? this is what happens when you bury your head where the sun does not shine NASA Science (.gov) The Causes of Climate Change Takeaways Increasing Greenhouses Gases Are Warming the Planet Scientists attribute the global warming trend observed since the mid-20th century to the human... . 1 week agos of Climate Change Human activities are driving the global warming trend observed since the mid-20th century. En español Takeaways The greenhouse effect is essential to life on Earth, but human-made emissions in the atmosphere are trapping and slowing heat loss to space. Five key greenhouse gases are carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, methane, chlorofluorocarbons, and water vapor. While the Sun has played a role in past climate changes, the evidence shows the current warming cannot be explained by the Sun. Increasing Greenhouses Gases Are Warming the Planet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (.gov) Basics of Climate Change | US EPA The earth's climate is changing. Multiple lines of evidence show changes in our weather, oceans, ecosystems, and more. . Nov 1, 2023 Royal Society Climate change: evidence and causes The Sun serves as the primary energy source for Earth's climate. Some of the incoming sunlight is reflected directly back into space, especially by bright... . 1 month ago BBC What is climate change? A really simple guide Human activities are causing world temperatures to rise, posing serious threats to people and nature. . 1 month ago Nature A constraint on historic growth in global photosynthesis due to rising CO2 Theory predicts that rising CO2 increases global photosynthesis, a process known as CO2 fertilization, and that this is responsible for much... . Nov 27, 2023 Climate Copernicus Copernicus: 2023 is the hottest year on record, with global temperatures close to the 1.5°C limit | Copernicus Global surface air temperature increase relative to the average for 1850-1900, the designated pre-industrial reference period, based on... . Jan 9, 2024 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 4 hours ago, TailingsPond said: This not about CO2, it is about air quality, I made that very clear a long time ago. How many times have I heard from the Climate Panic crowd that because CO2 is rising and temperature is rising that means that CO2 causes temperature? That is strictly amateur analysis. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Fossil fuels lead to smog, smog provokes regulation, regulations reduce smog. And fossil fuels rise drastically while smog declines drastically. Therefore, whatever the link, it is overwhelmed by a drastic reduction in smog. The Panic Brigade is in tears again. Edited March 28 by Ecocharger 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 Just now, Ecocharger said: How many times have I heard from the Climate Panic crowd that because CO2 is rising and temperature is rising that means that CO2 causes temperature? That is strictly amateur analysis. Why are you still going on about CO2? The current topic is smog. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 4 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Next you will say sugar reduces cavities. For example: John Doe eats lots of sugar; his teeth rot; he gets a bad toothache from one of his many teeth with cavities; he goes to a dentist and the dentist fixes all of his cavities (not just the painful tooth). Dentist gives fluoride treatment. John now eats even more sugar with a mouth full of fillings (but no cavities). More sugar, fewer cavities. If he doesn't get any cavities because his toothpaste works, that sounds good. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TailingsPond said: Why are you still going on about CO2? The current topic is smog. No, your current topic is smog. Which I showed above is not a concern. The climate alarmists are concentrated on CO2. The new research shows that the transition to EVs actually increases CO2. That is big news. Edited March 28 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: If he doesn't get any cavities because his toothpaste works, that sounds good. What are your thoughts on water fluoridation? haha! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 1 minute ago, TailingsPond said: What are your thoughts on water fluoridation? haha! Here is where the action is right now.The family car. EVs are apparently headed for the scrap heap of history, as the wild and foolish plans to force people to buy these misbegotten dreams are falling apart. Even Norway is showing that EVs are something to be avoided. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Goehring-and-Rozencwajg-EVs-May-Never-Achieve-Widespread-Adoption.html "The investment community’s belief that EVs will displace the internal combustion engine remains as strong as ever. Goehring and Rozencwajg research shows that EVs will struggle to achieve widespread adoption despite massive subsidies and the growing threat of outright ICE bans. Conclusively: EVs are less energy efficient than internal combustion engine automobiles. As a result, they will fail to gain widespread adoption." https://blog.gorozen.com/blog/the-norwegian-illusion "Mitigating carbon emissions is central to the case for electric vehicles. Advocates argue that displacing fossil fuels is essential to curbing global warming. We disagree. Replacing ICEs with EVs will materially increase carbon emissions and may worsen the problem. Manufacturing an electric vehicle consumes far more energy than an ICE. Most of this additional energy is spent mining the materials for and manufacturing an EV’s giant lithium-ion battery. Mining companies use energy-intensive trucks, crushers, and mills to extract each battery’s nickel, cobalt, lithium, and copper. The manufacturing process consumes vast amounts of energy as well. Many analysts eagerly tout the carbon savings from displaced fossil fuels without adequately accounting for the battery’s increased energy consumption. Once these adjustments are made, most, if not all, of the EV’s carbon advantage disappears." "At nearly $4 billion annually, Norway spends as much on EV subsidies as on total highway and public infrastructure maintenance. " "Despite 20% of all vehicles on the road now being electric, Norway’s gasoline and diesel demand fell by a mere 4%." "Norway’s entire EV fleet mitigates a mere 450,000 tonnes of CO2 per year, compared with an upfront emission of 21 mm tonnes. In other words, it would take forty-five years of CO2 savings from reduced gasoline and diesel consumption to offset the initial emissions from the manufacturing of the vehicles. Since an EV battery has a useful life of only ten to fifteen years, it is clear that Norway’s EV rollout has increased total lifecycle CO2 emissions dramatically." In other words, if you think that it is important to reduce CO2 levels, the plan would be to eliminate EVs. You don't have to be an Einstein to see this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 1 minute ago, Ecocharger said: No, your current topic is smog. Which I showed above is not a concern. Smog is a concern. Pretty views are worth a lot of money. A corner office in a tall office building should offer nice views. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 476 GE March 28 Just now, Ecocharger said: "The investment community’s belief that EVs will displace the internal combustion engine remains as strong as ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,080 DM March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: No, your current topic is smog. Which I showed above is not a concern. The climate alarmists are concentrated on CO2. The new research shows that the transition to EVs actually increases CO2. That is big news. smog. Which I showed above is not a concern???? Edited March 28 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,080 DM March 28 January 9, 2018 Air pollution linked to risk of premature death When you breathe in high levels of fine particles or ozone, your lungs can become irritated. Outdoor air pollution has been associated with asthma, heart attacks, strokes, and cancers. Studies have shown an association between long-term exposure to air pollution and premature death. Air pollution linked to risk of premature death The team used air pollution prediction models and artificial neural networks to estimate daily air pollution levels for more than 39,000 zip codes, even in unmonitored rural areas of the country. They then looked at pollution levels around the days of death for 22 million adults aged 65 and older based on death records from 2000 to 2012. The air pollution levels on the days of death (for 22 million deaths) were compared with pollution levels during other days (76 million control days). The researchers found that when air pollution from either fine particles or ozone increased intermittently, there was a substantial increase in deaths within a 2-day period. Each intermittent, incremental increase of either 10 micrograms of fine particles per cubic meter or 10 parts per billion of ozone was associated with a rise in deaths. The large dataset also enabled the research team to study effects by age, sex, race, age, and income level. Those most at risk of death associated with air pollution were over 85 years old, female, nonwhite, or economically disadvantaged. “This [is] the most comprehensive study of short-term exposure to pollution and mortality to date,” Dominici says. “We found that the mortality rate increases almost linearly as air pollution increases. Any level of air pollution, no matter how low, is harmful to human health.” 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,080 DM March 28 What causes Ozone This happens when pollutants emitted by cars, power plants, industrial boilers, refineries, chemical plants, and other sources chemically react in the presence of sunlight. Ozone is most likely to reach unhealthy levels on hot sunny days in urban environments, but can still reach high levels during colder months.Jun 2, 2023 Ground-level Ozone Basics | US EPA U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (.gov) https://www.epa.gov › ground-level-ozone-pollution 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,381 DL March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, TailingsPond said: Smog is a concern. Pretty views are worth a lot of money. A corner office in a tall office building should offer nice views. I have already shown you above that it is not a concern, Uncle Joe has it all under control according to the EPA. You can trust your Uncle Joe. More fossil fuels, less smog. "Annual emissions estimates are used as one indicator of the effectiveness of our programs. The graph below shows that between 1980 and 2022, gross domestic product increased 196 percent, vehicle miles traveled increased 108 percent, energy consumption increased 29 percent, and U.S. population grew by 47 percent. During the same time period, total emissions of the six principal air pollutants dropped by 73 percent. " Thank you, Big Brother Joe. Edited March 28 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,635 RP March 28 13 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: The Spanish explorers first commented about the smoke in what became Los Angeles. Smoke and smog are different things altogether. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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