China Producing Half of the Worlds Electrical Vehicle Batteries is Experiencing Explosive Pollution

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

22 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay must have emerged from a rough environment.

 

 Jay, just out of interest, what is your definition of "lying", a term you are apparently incapable of not using.

You say I am incapable of not using the term "lying" yet I didn't use the term "lying" in the post you quoted.

[Ecocharger + 1,447]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You say I am incapable of not using the term "lying" yet I didn't use the term "lying" in the post you quoted.

Here is the exact quote, Jay.

"Just can't resist lying can you?" These are your very words, Jay.

Satisfied now? You have a habit of using the "l" word.

Now, let me ask you again, what is your definition of "lying"? I would really like to know, because it is a word which you resort to on a regular basis.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Here is the exact quote, Jay.

"Just can't resist lying can you?" These are your very words, Jay.

Satisfied now? You have a habit of using the "l" word.

Now, let me ask you again, what is your definition of "lying"? I would really like to know, because it is a word which you resort to on a regular basis.

Instead of quote mining how about we look at the entire post:

Ron said I called out his facts as untrue. This is a lie. I challenged him to show me the quote where I did and have no response.

 

 

 

 

[Ecocharger + 1,447]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Instead of quote mining how about we look at the entire post:

Ron said I called out his facts as untrue. This is a lie. I challenged him to show me the quote where I did and have no response.

 

 

 

 

Jay, these kinds of disagreements arise every day on these pages. But none of them warrants the use of the term "lies".

Now, let me ask you again for the third time, what is your definition of "lying". We need to know this because you frequently resort to using the term, so let us see how you understand the word.

Let me give you a hint, a factual error or misstatement is not by itself a "lie". This, I think, is where you go off the rails.

Well, let me put this issue out of its agony, here is the definition,

"lie · a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. · something intended or serving to convey a false impression"

So a "lie" is a deliberate and intentional falsehood designed to deceive someone. It is not just a factual error, although some misguided disputants tend to use the term as if it meant that. It means a lack of sincerity or saying something which the person knows is untrue.

Does this help you to understand the difference? An "error" and a "lie" are two different concepts.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, these kinds of disagreements arise every day on these pages. But none of them warrants the use of the term "lies".

Now, let me ask you again for the third time, what is your definition of "lying". We need to know this because you frequently resort to using the term, so let us see how you understand the word.

Let me give you a hint, a factual error or misstatement is not by itself a "lie". This, I think, is where you go off the rails.

No, you are incorrect. Ron accused me of lying about his facts. If you accuse me of something I did not do I will call you a liar. There is your definition.

[Ecocharger + 1,447]

1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said:

No, you are incorrect. Ron accused me of lying about his facts. If you accuse me of something I did not do I will call you a liar. There is your definition.

That is not the definition of "lie", Jay. I gave you a dictionary definition, it is a deliberate and intentional untruth designed to deceive someone. If someone has a different view of the facts than you do, that does not constitute a "lie", it may be just a sincere disagreement over the facts. 

I have gone into some detail here because it seems to me that you are not using the term "lie" in the way it is intended, which causes confusion for the other readers here. You might want to consider that other people may have a sincere disagreement with you over the facts, and that is not regarded as a "lie", but rather an honest difference of opinion.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

That is not the definition of "lie", Jay. I gave you a dictionary definition, it is a deliberate and intentional untruth designed to deceive someone. If someone has a different view of the facts than you do, that does not constitute a "lie", it may be just a sincere disagreement over the facts. 

I have gone into some detail here because it seems to me that you are not using the term "lie" in the way it is intended, which causes confusion for the other readers here. You might want to consider that other people may have a sincere disagreement with you over the facts, and that is not regarded as a "lie", but rather an honest difference of opinion.

No, I am using the term correctly. 

Since you are confused let's again look at what Ron said:

"Jay even goes so far as to call out my facts as if they are untrue even though he knows otherwise. As he said we are using the same source!"

This is not a disagreement over the facts. Ron accused me of telling a lie which I did not do in a deliberate and intentional untruth designed to deceive the reader about my previous statements. The term "lie" is correct. You are the one who doesn't understand how the term is used.

What is really telling is that you are hung up on my use of the term "lie" while Ron said I was a liar with different words which mean the same damn thing. Why aren't you upset that Ron called me a liar?

 

[Ecocharger + 1,447]

7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

No, I am using the term correctly. 

Since you are confused let's again look at what Ron said:

"Jay even goes so far as to call out my facts as if they are untrue even though he knows otherwise. As he said we are using the same source!"

This is not a disagreement over the facts. Ron accused me of telling a lie which I did not do in a deliberate and intentional untruth designed to deceive the reader about my previous statements. The term "lie" is correct. You are the one who doesn't understand how the term is used.

What is really telling is that you are hung up on my use of the term "lie" while Ron said I was a liar with different words which mean the same damn thing. Why aren't you upset that Ron called me a liar?

 

No, he did not use the term "lie". YOU were the one who used the term "lie", which is exactly what I was complaining about above. You are the one who cannot control your language. You are the one attempting to ratchet up the level of disrespect. He was complaining about your interpretation of the facts, not the facts themselves. In these pages, we should at least respect the right of other posters to have a different perspective on the facts, that is an essential.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

On 7/23/2021 at 5:14 PM, Eric Gagen said:

Did not know that tidbit about aluminum, but I was only familiar with the use cases for flexible wiring, not terminals and other use cases.  REE motors aren’t just for ‘performance freaks’.  They are also critical if you want to make small lightweight cars which have plenty of internal space by powering them with compact motors.  Physically large motors may be fine for large sedans or pickup trucks but for smaller passenger vehicles the size of the operating equipment is an important parameter.

Even non-permag motors are less than 10% of the volume of an ICE+transmission of the same power, and the industry has been making small ICE cars for a century. Battery size is a bigger issue, but the battery fits quite nicely under the floor. However, my point is that IF REEs get too expensive, THEN economy cars will quit using them, and that puts a cap on the REE cost.  In fact, the auto industry may actually need the cost to be high in order to justify the cost of high-end cars. After all, the super rich surely "need" a 2 million dollar car with four 1000 Hp motors.

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:42 PM, turbguy said:

Ah, yes...steel pennies!

The same heating issues arise, no matter if it is a synchronous motor or a generator.  I gotta think about induction motors...

Superconducting windings would be a further option, and has been attempted.  Not practical or economical (yet).  Generator (and motor) losses are small to begin with. 

There's really not much efficiency left to gain, other than making the generator somewhat smaller (and the cooling system much bigger). 

You still have to design a machine to handle the required torque input (or output) at the required RPM.

Yeah, the motors in the latest Tesla Model S have ridiculously high RPM, which lets the one-speed transmission reach higher speeds. They did this by winding a sheath of carbon fiber onto the rotor to keep it from expanding as it heats and spins, thus allowing reduced clearances. Insane, but it allows for a higher power-to-mass ratio.

[turbguy + 1,537]

3 hours ago, Dan Clemmensen said:

Yeah, the motors in the latest Tesla Model S have ridiculously high RPM, which lets the one-speed transmission reach higher speeds. They did this by winding a sheath of carbon fiber onto the rotor to keep it from expanding as it heats and spins, thus allowing reduced clearances. Insane, but it allows for a higher power-to-mass ratio.

You mean to reduce the expansion.

I don't think Mr. Poisson''s findings have been eliminated, yet.

Edited July 26, 2021 by turbguy

[ronwagn + 6,290]

19 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

No, you are incorrect. Ron accused me of lying about his facts. If you accuse me of something I did not do I will call you a liar. There is your definition.

Jay, you have continuously made very optimistic claims about how quickly renewables and EV's would take over the economies around the world. I have continuously urged you to try to be realistic and that slower would make a lot more sense. I will continue to call you out on your speculations and you can call me wrong but don't call me a liar. Such terms are not helpful and I try to never use them. I pointed out (and always have) that I am all for the best solutions whether they make me right or wrong. That should be sufficient. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 7/20/2021 at 8:35 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

We already covered this case at the beginning of this very discussion. Damage was done to the car that was not covered under warranty. It was cheaply and easily repaired by a third party mechanic. Tesla doesn't want to be in the car repair business, so they charge a lot. As more EVs are sold more mechanics will learn how to work on them, it is pure fear mongering to say otherwise. 

As to Right to Repair - that is an issue for the entire economy that the government under Biden has begun to regulate.

Good to hear Jay, and here is a link for it.  https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2021/07/26/624233.htm

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:11 PM, Eric Gagen said:

@Jay McKinsey @RichieRich216  all of the discussion about the Chevrolet bolt reminds me of the rule I learned in 1980 when my dads Vega caught fire, was reinforced when the door handles for my wife’s Pontiac fell off, and again when my grandmothers Saturn hood hinge broke:  never ever purchase or attempt to use any product, service or part which General Motors was involved in.  This isn’t an electric car problem it’s a GM problem. 

I will quit admiring all the high end Tahoes and Suburbans and be even more grateful for my larger Nissan NV 3500 van which cost $41,000. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 7/25/2021 at 1:27 PM, Eric Gagen said:

@ronwagn My understanding is that if the steel has enough alloying material in it that it's no longer magnetic, then it's actually BAD for many blade steels.  You need high carbon steel with very few other alloying elements to get a really sharp edge.  If you start adding a bunch of nickel, and chrome and make stainless steel of some sort, the steel is tougher and more flexible, but it's less capable of being sharpened or holding an edge.  It won't rust,  but it won't make good knives either.  it's perfect for butter knives, and cheap steak knives, but not what you want for really good quality knives.

I have had stainless steel knives that were pretty worthless but looked cool. I have old knives that  are tarnished but hold a good edge. One is a sixty year old Schrade and the other is a U.S. Marine clone. I have an old army bayonet that someone just about wore out sharpening it. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

On 7/25/2021 at 11:27 AM, Eric Gagen said:

@ronwagn My understanding is that if the steel has enough alloying material in it that it's no longer magnetic, then it's actually BAD for many blade steels.  You need high carbon steel with very few other alloying elements to get a really sharp edge.  If you start adding a bunch of nickel, and chrome and make stainless steel of some sort, the steel is tougher and more flexible, but it's less capable of being sharpened or holding an edge.  It won't rust,  but it won't make good knives either.  it's perfect for butter knives, and cheap steak knives, but not what you want for really good quality knives.

Partially true.  A high carbon steel, while it has a high hardness(65-->70), is very brittle and will not hold an edge all that long.  If slicing is all you are doing it is fine, but chopping?  Horrid.  It also RUSTS very quickly so if you do have a high carbon chopping knife(I do) you must DRY it after washing VERY quickly and if you are cutting acidic fruits etc, must wash it quickly before your edge literally rusts away before your eyes.  If you like sharpening knives all the time, go with a high carbon content knife.  (Yea yea, many types of high content carbon steel, and its associated HT, but in general)

I now have knives made of common ol' D2(I think) tool steel which I normally use with HRC of ~58 or so, and one with high content Vanadium in it with HRC of around 65.  Both keep their edge exceptionally well, do not rust.  I uh, do not like sharpening much. The Vanadium knife holds its edge exceptionally well, but is an absolute BEAR to sharpen.  I forget exact type of alloyed Vanadium bearing steel.  I do not think it is S30V.  Pretty sure it is the CPM family and was waaayyyy too pricey for actual benefit.  Likewise the knife maker told me he would never make a knife out of that material again.  I understand, as it is nearly impossible to make fine machine cuts so the finish is rough unless you do a THICK grind which... takes FOREVER. 

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

14 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

No, he did not use the term "lie". YOU were the one who used the term "lie", which is exactly what I was complaining about above. You are the one who cannot control your language. You are the one attempting to ratchet up the level of disrespect. He was complaining about your interpretation of the facts, not the facts themselves. In these pages, we should at least respect the right of other posters to have a different perspective on the facts, that is an essential.

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Jay, you have continuously made very optimistic claims about how quickly renewables and EV's would take over the economies around the world. I have continuously urged you to try to be realistic and that slower would make a lot more sense. I will continue to call you out on your speculations and you can call me wrong but don't call me a liar. Such terms are not helpful and I try to never use them. I pointed out (and always have) that I am all for the best solutions whether they make me right or wrong. That should be sufficient. 

Ron, you accused me of saying that your facts were untrue (equivalent to saying that I lied about your facts). I did no such thing, that is why I called you a liar.   I am still waiting for you to offer proof of what you accused me of. Where is it?

If you again accuse me of doing something I didn't do I will again call you a liar. 

This has nothing to do with you calling me out on "my speculations" made by the Minister of Energy and Australian Government. 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

More "speculation" from Australia. 

Australia’s main grid has set yet more new records for wind output, beating a new record set just days earlier and smashing through the 6,000MW mark for the first time on Saturday and leaping to more than 6,400MW a day later.

The peak wind output in the National Electricity Market set on Saturday was 6,120MW, at 8.25pm, according to energy analysts Dylan McConnell from the Climate and Energy College, and Paul McArdle from Global Roam.

It was then broken a day later, at 5.40pm on Sunday, when it reached a peak of 6,421MW, and then up to 6,428MW at 8.05pm. The average renewable energy output in Australia’s main grid was more than 50 per cent from around 10.30am to 3pm.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 7/20/2021 at 6:06 AM, turbguy said:

A well respected Russian-born metallurgist I had the great pleasure of working with for years always said..

"Metallurgy is NOT a science, it is a Black Art"!

I would say heat treatment of alloys is a black art

[Eric Gagen + 713]

9 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I will quit admiring all the high end Tahoes and Suburbans and be even more grateful for my larger Nissan NV 3500 van which cost $41,000. 

I had a really nice Yukon for a rental vehicle last year and I’ll admit it was very nice.  It was also about 3 months old, so I reserve the right to be skeptical about GM

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I would say heat treatment of alloys is a black art

Thick parts and large odd parts this is 100% true. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

I had a really nice Yukon for a rental vehicle last year and I’ll admit it was very nice.  It was also about 3 months old, so I reserve the right to be skeptical about GM

They have a wonderful ride and about every option you could want. I have heard you can go up to about $80,000 maxed out and extra long. My van does have 12 roomy leather seats and the basic options for $41,000 and rides like a pickup truck.