Perfect Energy Storm in Europe: turning our back on fossil fuels is easier said than done!

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

21 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Sorry buddy but your CO2 emitters are going the same way as cigarettes. Oh and do work on your math, try that percentage calculation again. Then we can discuss market segments, your twin turbo V8s were a small fraction of the market to start with and Tesla destroyed them, and what are the overall numbers are going to look like as Tesla Berlin comes online in a month?

Tesla's have been blowing Vipers away since 2013. Try again.

https://youtu.be/VLCdP6sMN9k

cars are a waste of money anyway, so why not wasting money while emitting fire?

With a two stroke uniflow you can easily get 50-55% efficiency (and twice the power cause twice the explosions per Rev) without WHRS or Water injection nor Methanol, Synthgasoline is 0.7KG/L, energy density is 13KWh/Kg, at 0.45USD/L or 0.64USD/K is competitive with electricity at 10C/KWh, you could get it at 0.25USD/L in gas producing countries

Fastest electric dragster does the 1/4 mile in 7.52 seconds, with 5000Hp, with the same weight, a Top Alcohol "baby dragster" does it in 5 seconds, in racing terms that an eternity, is quicker, doesnt matter how you measure it.

in the case of beating a tesla or any EV you can think of, Teslas beat *Stock vipers* that is Nothing a couple turbochargers can't solve

Tesla plaid does the 60-130MPH in 4.7Seconds
2000HP Rimac nevera does it in 3.39Seconds
Twin turbo Viper does it in 3.35 Seconds

100-150MPH
Tesla plaid does it in 5Seconds
2000HP Rimac Nevera does 3.7Seconds
Twin turbo Viper does it in 2.29Seconds

The viper is faster. Period. And thats it.





Here it is, twin turbo viper measured

Edited October 2, 2021 by Sebastian Meana

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

On 9/30/2021 at 11:43 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Tesla is the reason they can't sell any of their antique V8 twinturbo gas guzzlers. Consumers want new technology, not old junk.

Tesla Model S outsells German luxury flagships in Europe

https://europe.autonews.com/article/20180220/ANE/180219831/tesla-model-s-outsells-german-luxury-flagships-in-europe

Tesla Model 3 outsells German sedan rivals in Europe

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-model-3-outsells-german-sedan-rivals-europe

Again, this amounts to only a miniscule percentage of the total vehicle stock and total vehicle sales, including second hand markets....irrelevant to the big picture.

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

15 hours ago, markslawson said:

The real problem seems to be that Russia suddenly started limiting gas supplies through the existing pipeline, at a time when demand was increasing, for various reasons, but no-one has a clear explanation as to why. The Russians have not given a clear explanation either. There are various theories including that the Russians want to push for the opening of a second pipeline which bypasses the Ukraine and Poland, but anyway it is odd that no-one seems to know. What be said is that the problem was made worse for a time by a lack of wind and that there are active impediments to developing other sources of gas in Europe.  

The Russians are sending NG through to China, which is in desperate need of energy right now...western Europe will have to wait and suffer, but they should only blame themselves for their wonky climate policies.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Sebastian Meana said:

cars are a waste of money anyway, so why not wasting money while emitting fire?

With a two stroke uniflow you can easily get 50-55% efficiency (and twice the power cause twice the explosions per Rev) without WHRS or Water injection nor Methanol, Synthgasoline is 0.7KG/L, energy density is 13KWh/Kg, at 0.45USD/L or 0.64USD/K is competitive with electricity at 10C/KWh, you could get it at 0.25USD/L in gas producing countries

Fastest electric dragster does the 1/4 mile in 7.52 seconds, with 5000Hp, with the same weight, a Top Alcohol "baby dragster" does it in 5 seconds, in racing terms that an eternity, is quicker, doesnt matter how you measure it.

in the case of beating a tesla or any EV you can think of, Teslas beat *Stock vipers* that is Nothing a couple turbochargers can't solve

Tesla plaid does the 60-130MPH in 4.7Seconds
2000HP Rimac nevera does it in 3.39Seconds
Twin turbo Viper does it in 3.35 Seconds

100-150MPH
Tesla plaid does it in 5Seconds
2000HP Rimac Nevera does 3.7Seconds
Twin turbo Viper does it in 2.29Seconds

The viper is faster. Period. And thats it.





Here it is, twin turbo viper measured

So they discontinued the Viper for lack of sales. Says it all.

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

33 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

So they discontinued the Viper for lack of sales. Says it all.

Jay, you are wandering off topic, as usual...nothing to say to the point?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, you are wandering off topic, as usual...nothing to say to the point?

Very much on point. People don't want Vipers but they do want Teslas. Viper sales collapsed when Tesla entered the market.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

7 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Very much on point. People don't want Vipers but they do want Teslas. Viper sales collapsed when Tesla entered the market.

Which tells us what about the current European energy crisis? That is the current thread topic.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

15 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Which tells us what about the current European energy crisis? That is the current thread topic.

That Europeans think Vipers are stupid and ugly gas guzzlers.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That Europeans think Vipers are stupid and ugly gas guzzlers.

So how does that relate to the current European energy crisis?  No relation? No point? Well, that is getting to be par for the course whenever you pick up a club, Jay.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

13 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

So how does that relate to the current European energy crisis?  No relation? No point? Well, that is getting to be par for the course whenever you pick up a club, Jay.

Oil would be in shorter supply if they liked Vipers.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The Russians are sending NG through to China, which is in desperate need of energy right now...western Europe will have to wait and suffer, but they should only blame themselves for their wonky climate policies.

China wants it more, and is willing to pay more to get it and/or agree to long term contracts (which the Russians like - they have plenty of gas to sell, but their export infrastructure is limited) if Europe wants it instead, they have to pay for it.  For a long time Russia more or less HAD to sell its gas to Europe, because there weren't any other major customers within reach of the Russian pipeline system.  That's not true any longer, so Europe no longer gets a 'subsidy' from cut rate Russian gas. 

[wrs + 893]

On 10/1/2021 at 12:31 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

 

Tesla's have been blowing Vipers away since 2013. Try again.

https://youtu.be/VLCdP6sMN9k

You don't drive or own fast cars do you?  Tesla's are a joke at the track.  The only place they can shine is in the quarter mile, after that they are toast.  I pulled up beside some clown in a model X who immediately wanted to race so I did and of course he beat me off the line but by 80mph I passed him and left him in my rearview.  I was driving a Ferrari 812SF.  I have dusted Teslas at the track because they couldn't run faster than about 130 at top speed.  Here are the numbers for the 2014 Model S.  Notice that it's 0-60 was 5.6s.  My 991tts did 3s and after I got done modding it, I got 2.65s 0-60 which is about as fast as the latest Tesla S.

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/model-speed/81ed2f

Here are some performance charts from my 2014 991 Turbo S back then.  

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 hours ago, wrs said:

You don't drive or own fast cars do you?  Tesla's are a joke at the track.  The only place they can shine is in the quarter mile, after that they are toast.  I pulled up beside some clown in a model X who immediately wanted to race so I did and of course he beat me off the line but by 80mph I passed him and left him in my rearview.  I was driving a Ferrari 812SF.  I have dusted Teslas at the track because they couldn't run faster than about 130 at top speed.  Here are the numbers for the 2014 Model S.  Notice that it's 0-60 was 5.6s.  My 991tts did 3s and after I got done modding it, I got 2.65s 0-60 which is about as fast as the latest Tesla S.

https://www.evspecifications.com/en/model-speed/81ed2f

Here are some performance charts from my 2014 991 Turbo S back then.  

 

So your $350,000 two seater was toasted by a family SUV at street speeds which are the only thing that actually matter. Then you ramble on about a 7 year old Tesla being slow. Perhaps you might compare a new Tesla. Oh but you do don;t you by having to explain that your "modded" race car was *almost* as fast as the new Tesla family sedan.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,545]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:09 AM, Sebastian Meana said:

cars are a waste of money anyway, so why not wasting money while emitting fire?

With a two stroke uniflow you can easily get 50-55% efficiency (and twice the power cause twice the explosions per Rev) without WHRS or Water injection nor Methanol, Synthgasoline is 0.7KG/L, energy density is 13KWh/Kg, at 0.45USD/L or 0.64USD/K is competitive with electricity at 10C/KWh, you could get it at 0.25USD/L in gas producing countries

Fastest electric dragster does the 1/4 mile in 7.52 seconds, with 5000Hp, with the same weight, a Top Alcohol "baby dragster" does it in 5 seconds, in racing terms that an eternity, is quicker, doesnt matter how you measure it.

in the case of beating a tesla or any EV you can think of, Teslas beat *Stock vipers* that is Nothing a couple turbochargers can't solve

Tesla plaid does the 60-130MPH in 4.7Seconds
2000HP Rimac nevera does it in 3.39Seconds
Twin turbo Viper does it in 3.35 Seconds

100-150MPH
Tesla plaid does it in 5Seconds
2000HP Rimac Nevera does 3.7Seconds
Twin turbo Viper does it in 2.29Seconds

The viper is faster. Period. And thats it.





Here it is, twin turbo viper measured

Impressive, but not practical for 99%+ of the market.

Most of the market would not even have the ability to afford the tires...

Much less replace them every 5000-9000 miles.

Edited October 4, 2021 by turbguy

[markslawson + 1,058]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:18 PM, Starschy said:

Russian did not limiting Gas because UK is 2nd or 3rd grade client for Gazprom without a longterm Contract. Priority clients have a longterm contract Germany, Italy, Turkey, France, Hungary and other Balkan Countries.

As I said limiting supplies through the European pipeline for various reasons - if you say its because the Russians were sending the gas elsewhere then I'll accept that .. but we can agree that teh UK and others should have been arranging alternate supplies rather than moaning about climate.. 

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

So your $350,000 two seater was toasted by a family SUV at street speeds which are the only thing that actually matter. Then you ramble on about a 7 year old Tesla being slow. Perhaps you might compare a new Tesla. Oh but you do don;t you by having to explain that your "modded" race car was *almost* as fast as the new Tesla family sedan.

Jay, if driving a Tesla made any economic sense, you would be driving one now yourself...the fact that you stick with the ICE BMW vehicle shows that you and I are sensible enough to not drive an EV. Congrats. Further, I doubt that you ever will make the transition to an EV, it just makes no sense to the pocketbook.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, if driving a Tesla made any economic sense, you would be driving one now yourself...the fact that you stick with the ICE BMW vehicle shows that you and I are sensible enough to not drive an EV. Congrats. Further, I doubt that you ever will make the transition to an EV, it just makes no sense to the pocketbook.

Sorry but I am really looking forward to that used Tesla. I'm one of those guys who doesn't think new cars make economic sense. The problem is that used Teslas now cost more than new. That was my mistake.

[Ecocharger + 1,477]

4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Sorry but I am really looking forward to that used Tesla. I'm one of those guys who doesn't think new cars make economic sense. The problem is that used Teslas now cost more than new. That was my mistake.

You made no mistake, Jay, you used your head and stuck with the ICE vehicle made by BMW.

That was the only rational choice to make. EVs are for those who believe in the "cause".

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

You made no mistake, Jay, you used your head and stuck with the ICE vehicle made by BMW.

That was the only rational choice to make. EVs are for those who believe in the "cause".

Nah, I just spent $2K on fixing my smog system. If I had bought a Tesla last year not only would it have appreciated, I wouldn't be out the 2 grand. Not to mention all the savings on gasoline and all that instant torque fun. Tesla demand is so high that I'm not sure if prices will even start coming down once they get GigaTexas ramped up.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[wrs + 893]

18 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

So your $350,000 two seater was toasted by a family SUV at street speeds which are the only thing that actually matter. Then you ramble on about a 7 year old Tesla being slow. Perhaps you might compare a new Tesla. Oh but you do don;t you by having to explain that your "modded" race car was *almost* as fast as the new Tesla family sedan.

LOL, street speeds only matter to people that can't go faster.  In case you didn't notice, it beat me off the line, I passed it going away.  No one buys a fast car to drive at "street speeds".   Actually I pointed out that at the time, my stock 991tts was way faster than the Tesla.  I showed you measured 0-60 of 3s while the Tesla did 5.4s, both cars were 2014 models.  Those were contemporaneous and the Porsche was much faster.  I paid $157k for the Porsche and the Tesla was about $135k.  Of course I didn't buy the Porsche to be a soft box on wheels like the Tesla.  I bought it for performance and when I took it to COTA, I easily lapped the guy that brought his model S out there.

 

7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Nah, I just spent $2K on fixing my smog system. If I had bought a Tesla last year not only would it have appreciated, I wouldn't be out the 2 grand. Not to mention all the savings on gasoline and all that instant torque fun. Tesla demand is so high that I'm not sure if prices will even start coming down once they get GigaTexas ramped up.

All used cars are appreciating right now in case you hadn't noticed.  

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192]

49 minutes ago, wrs said:

All used cars are appreciating right now in case you hadn't noticed. 

Happens when the USD is becoming toilet paper...

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 10/3/2021 at 1:59 AM, Eric Gagen said:

China wants it more, and is willing to pay more to get it and/or agree to long term contracts (which the Russians like - they have plenty of gas to sell, but their export infrastructure is limited) if Europe wants it instead, they have to pay for it.  For a long time Russia more or less HAD to sell its gas to Europe, because there weren't any other major customers within reach of the Russian pipeline system.  That's not true any longer, so Europe no longer gets a 'subsidy' from cut rate Russian gas. 

There is no connection between West Siberian pipeline grid serving Europe and Far Eastern grid serving China yet. Needless to say, the source fields are not shared either.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

6 hours ago, wrs said:

LOL, street speeds only matter to people that can't go faster.  In case you didn't notice, it beat me off the line, I passed it going away.  No one buys a fast car to drive at "street speeds".   Actually I pointed out that at the time, my stock 991tts was way faster than the Tesla.  I showed you measured 0-60 of 3s while the Tesla did 5.4s, both cars were 2014 models.  Those were contemporaneous and the Porsche was much faster.  I paid $157k for the Porsche and the Tesla was about $135k.  Of course I didn't buy the Porsche to be a soft box on wheels like the Tesla.  I bought it for performance and when I took it to COTA, I easily lapped the guy that brought his model S out there.

 

All used cars are appreciating right now in case you hadn't noticed.  

 

Bragging about beating a family SUV after it had toasted you up to 80mph, wow. What matters is 99.99% of the market that drive on public streets and don't care about going over 100mph.  Again with the 7 year old cars, who cares? You guys are really pathetic with how you like to use massively out of date info to support your claims. Today you can order a Tesla Model 3 Performance for $55K that does 0-60 in 3.1 seconds.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 10/2/2021 at 2:52 AM, markslawson said:

The real problem seems to be that Russia suddenly started limiting gas supplies through the existing pipeline, at a time when demand was increasing, for various reasons, but no-one has a clear explanation as to why. The Russians have not given a clear explanation either. There are various theories including that the Russians want to push for the opening of a second pipeline which bypasses the Ukraine and Poland, but anyway it is odd that no-one seems to know. What be said is that the problem was made worse for a time by a lack of wind and that there are active impediments to developing other sources of gas in Europe.  

The "existing pipeline" is not a pipeline, but the Ukrainian grid, which is in progressive state of disrepair and also the most expensive option. The Stockholm arbitrage ruled in favor of Ukraine and made Gazprom change the traditional take-or-pay contract (i.e. minimal volume commitment, or traditional Groeningen-model gas contract) to the effective opposite, pump-or-pay. That is, the more gas Gazprom has to pump through Ukraine, the more expensive it gets for them (i.e. odd inverse wholesale discount) BTW, even US LNG trains have liquefy-or-pay volume commits, even though I am not sure why that is. In case of a pipeline, take-or-pay is there because every pipeline network is also a form of storage. The bigger it is, the more of this storage somebody has to fill just to get it up to the working pressure before you can deliver any gas to end customers (incidentally, it is this "technical gas" which belongs to nobody is what Ukraine has been tapping in 2006 and 2009)

[Eric Gagen + 713]

9 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

There is no connection between West Siberian pipeline grid serving Europe and Far Eastern grid serving China yet. Needless to say, the source fields are not shared either.

Even if it's true (and I doubt that it is 100% true) the oil and gas companies and state can still choose which areas to put capital investment in to increase production.  Now that they have more options,  Europe doesn't automatically benefit from the excess.