Looming European Gas Crisis in Winter and North African Factor - a must read by Cyril Widdershoven

[nsdp + 449]

3 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Uh, no.  Well technically you are "correct", if you call low pressure gas in small volumes useful🙄

The ones currently used used in Europe for NG storage  can hold up to 1-2000gwh if you check the studies done by  Universities of Freiburg and Strasbourg. Those caverns are not exactly low pressure. The ones in Michigan and under Lake Erie can hold enough hydrogen to supply the entire US for 15 days.  Time to get a new towel and wipe your navel so you can see what you are talking about.   It also might help you if you checked data sources like the  Texas Railroad Commission beforehand.

Tell me genius Where is the oil field associated with this salt dome https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitsubishiheavyindustries/2020/03/13/in-utah-hydrogen-and-a-massive-salt-dome-are-winning-the-west-for-renewable-energy/?sh=1169ef55c52f

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

51 minutes ago, nsdp said:

The ones currently used used in Europe for NG storage  can hold up to 1-2000gwh if you check the studies done by  Universities of Freiburg and Strasbourg. Those caverns are not exactly low pressure. The ones in Michigan and under Lake Erie can hold enough hydrogen to supply the entire US for 15 days.  Time to get a new towel and wipe your navel so you can see what you are talking about.   It also might help you if you checked data sources like the  Texas Railroad Commission beforehand.

Tell me genius Where is the oil field associated with this salt dome https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitsubishiheavyindustries/2020/03/13/in-utah-hydrogen-and-a-massive-salt-dome-are-winning-the-west-for-renewable-energy/?sh=1169ef55c52f

Apparently you have never opened a Utah map of major fault lines... oil/gas are literally everywhere in Utah, but with no connection to the outside world and with a broken up geology... Fields are odd and not very large. 

Apparently you can't read what others write either and play make believe an absolute statement was made.  Grow up child, exceptions exist, it does not make the rule nor invalidate simply efficiency calculations. 

[nsdp + 449]

2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Apparently you have never opened a Utah map of major fault lines... oil/gas are literally everywhere in Utah, but with no connection to the outside world and with a broken up geology... Fields are odd and not very large. 

Apparently you can't read what others write either and play make believe an absolute statement was made.  Grow up child, exceptions exist, it does not make the rule nor invalidate simply efficiency calculations. 

I worked for  Amoco and was assigned to central engineering on the Anschutz Ranch So I am familiar with Utah geology.   Salt caverns don't take more than about 100 meter diameter and 1500 meter depth.  At the Intermountain Power site faults make absolutely no difference. No more than they do at Boling or Mont Belvieu or Chocolate Bayou or Damon Mound or Hoskins Mound or Clemens Dome(92 Gw capcaity) or Moss Bluff (84 Gwh of H2 in storage) or Spindletop (140 Gwh in H2 capacity).  to name a few.  The last three are already H2 storage.  The better ones like the last three are tied to sulfur mining areas not oil and gas. https://www.airliquide.com/sites/airliquide.com/files/2017/01/03/usa-air-liquide-operates-the_world-s-largest-hydrogen-storage-facility.pdf 

This is on the sulfur cap at spindle top and all of the oil and gas around it does not interfere. 

[NickW + 2,714]

18 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

... According to your own link, not the pdf, your January number is a blatant lie.  And no one is going to use fixed angle PV on an industrial scale when you get 20% more with single plane tracking.  Let me get this straight... you think you are going to power your civilization on 1700kWh/yr.... right.... 🙄.  Good luck on that one.  And if you install those exact same solar panels in Southern Morocco/Algeria/Liby, you will obtain 30-->50% more power a year and the labor is cheaper.  Guess where they will be built... NOT in SPAIN!  So, instead of begging the Gulf region or Russia, you get to beg the African's for power. 

Albacete IS MADRID only slightly to the east🙄.  Same lattitude, same climate or nearly so.  😆 When in reality you would have to literally cover all of Spain to get the necessary power.  Current electric demand is only a small pittance of  the power required to run a modern civilization. 

The PDF is taken straight from the site Troll

JRC Photovoltaic Geographical Information System (PVGIS) - European Commission (europa.eu)

Taking a point about 50km south of Albacete.

1 Kw of panels. Fixed panel 35 degree slope facing due south will produce  Jan to Dec the following Kwh. (Subject to annual variation of upto 53kwh (base don historical data) 

118,111,141,141,151,153,166,161,140,125,109,109

166 (July)  = 100

109 (December) = 66.7%

Single plane tracking will improve those outputs  although wont narrow the seasonal variation. 

--------------------------------

Albacete is about 350Km SE of Madrid

For an area just south of Madrid you get the following profile Jan - Dec

101,110,140,147,157,158,172,170,150,129,103,103. Annual variability 76 Kwh

172 (July) =100%

101 (Jan) = 59%

[NickW + 2,714]

19 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

... According to your own link, not the pdf, your January number is a blatant lie.  And no one is going to use fixed angle PV on an industrial scale when you get 20% more with single plane tracking.  Let me get this straight... you think you are going to power your civilization on 1700kWh/yr.... right.... 🙄.  Good luck on that one.  And if you install those exact same solar panels in Southern Morocco/Algeria/Liby, you will obtain 30-->50% more power a year and the labor is cheaper.  Guess where they will be built... NOT in SPAIN!  So, instead of begging the Gulf region or Russia, you get to beg the African's for power. 

Albacete IS MADRID only slightly to the east🙄.  Same lattitude, same climate or nearly so.  😆 When in reality you would have to literally cover all of Spain to get the necessary power.  Current electric demand is only a small pittance of  the power required to run a modern civilization. 

Hey Troll - if you take a look at this you will see that most days even in mid November Spain is exporting to France. After natural gas, even in winter Solar is its biggest single day time contributor (sometimes its wind). This frees up spare capacity to export into the French market. As I type (1450hours - GMT) 1.76GW is going to France. Its importing 750 MW form Portugal and exporting 81 MW to Morocco

electricityMap | Live CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption

Spain currently only has 15GW of solar - thats nothing - about 115km2 or 0.02% of its land area. In any case a proportion will be on roof spaces so not taking up any land. Plenty of reservoirs to further deploy solar with added benefit of reducing evaporation losses. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 11/18/2021 at 5:19 PM, nsdp said:

The ones currently used used in Europe for NG storage  can hold up to 1-2000gwh if you check the studies done by  Universities of Freiburg and Strasbourg. Those caverns are not exactly low pressure. The ones in Michigan and under Lake Erie can hold enough hydrogen to supply the entire US for 15 days.  Time to get a new towel and wipe your navel so you can see what you are talking about.   It also might help you if you checked data sources like the  Texas Railroad Commission beforehand.

Tell me genius Where is the oil field associated with this salt dome https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitsubishiheavyindustries/2020/03/13/in-utah-hydrogen-and-a-massive-salt-dome-are-winning-the-west-for-renewable-energy/?sh=1169ef55c52f

I saw a hydrogen powered car at an auto show in the Pan Pacific Auditorium in  Los Angeles in 1965. The concept is very old. Apparently the technical issues have been worked out, except for the competitiveness of the price at the pump. Without actual figures the whole thing seems very iffy to me. Why not just use natural gas? I wish that we showed prices for alternative fuels on Oil Price. We do have ethanol. Would the hydrogen be used for vehicles or for electrical production, or both? 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 11/10/2021 at 4:16 AM, Tomasz said:

China will partially finance the Power of Syberia II. They  did not finance first line after 2014, but now, after the global energy crisi especially acute in China, they are more determined that this gas from Russia should flow to them.

Simple alternative for Chinese goverment - addition 50 bilion cubic meters by pipeline from Russia or LNG by sea (dominated by US NAVY and supplied in part by US)?

Thats gonna be a gamechanger in late 20s early 30s.

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5064914

 

This article appears to be probing BP's interests. Conspirologically minded induhviduals claim that the funny share maneuver of Rosneft's obfuscates a hidden BP stake. Whether it is like this or not, BP is one useful canary in the mine, as they consider both Russian and Azeri wholesale gas prices a highway robbery and pump it all back into the well to extract more oil wherever they've got a PSA share. So, wholesale gas prices and CO2 alternate are also their pet peeves. (This may change now with new prices. Note that Lukoil just bough out Petrobras at Azeri Shah Deniz field and now owns 25% of the works, behind BP's 28.5% only)

The real gamechanger is going to be massive natural gas storage the Chinese are adding up north. Note that their longterm LNG contracts tend to require delivery re-gassied and piped into their internal pipeline network. All their pipelines, be it from Russia or Turkmenistan (soon Iran?) will also end up there. This will turn natural gas into commodity for real, because compressed gas, unlike cryogenic liquefied, can be stored indefinitely. Does seem to also respond well to colder temperature, hence always the North of China. Sample newspiece (there are many more)

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202110/1236658.shtml

The Northern Sea Route is USN-proof

Edited November 22, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 11/19/2021 at 7:02 PM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

This article appears to be probing BP's interests. Conspirologically minded induhviduals claim that the funny share maneuver of Rosneft's obfuscates a hidden BP stake. Whether it is like this or not, BP is one useful canary in the mine, as they consider both Russian and Azeri wholesale gas prices a highway robbery and pump it all back into the well to extract more oil wherever they've got a PSA share. So, wholesale gas prices and CO2 alternate are also their pet peeves. (This may change now with new prices. Note that Lukoil just bough out Petrobras at Azeri Shah Deniz field and now owns 25% of the works, behind BP's 28.5% only)

The real gamechanger is going to be massive natural gas storage the Chinese are adding up north. Note that their longterm LNG contracts tend to require delivery re-gassied and piped into their internal pipeline network. All their pipelines, be it from Russia or Turkmenistan (soon Iran?) will also end up there. This will turn natural gas into commodity for real, because compressed gas, unlike cryogenic liquefied, can be stored indefinitely. Does seem to also respond well to colder temperature, hence always the North of China. Sample newspiece (there are many more)

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202110/1236658.shtml

Unfortunately it take the Chinese and Russians to teach the necessities of energy storage and to allow full production and pipelines for oil and natural gas or LNG to our crony capitalists and far left green dreamers, presently led by Al Gore and President Joe Biden plus many socialists and communists. 

[Tomasz + 1,608]

 

Quote

 

Gazprom spoke about the company's contribution to global production growth

Gazprom: the company provided more than half of the global increase in gas production in nine month

MOSCOW, 23 Nov - PRIME. Gazprom provided more than half of the global increase in gas production in January-September - 56 billion out of 110 billion cubic meters, the company calculated.

 

"According to preliminary estimates, from January 1 to September 30, 3.2 trillion cubic meters of gas were produced in the world, which is 110 billion cubic meters (4%) more than in 9 months of 2020. More than half of the increase in world production - 56 billion cubic meters ( 51%) - provided by Gazprom, - said in a message in the company's Telegram channel.

The growth in gas demand and production in the world is caused by the recovery of economic activity, weather factors and the instability of renewable energy sources, Gazprom notes.

At the same time, he points out that in Europe there is a steady downward trend in its own production: in January-September, the decline amounted to 10 billion cubic meters (-6%) compared to the same period in 2020. "In North America, production decreased by 5 billion cubic meters. In the countries of the Asia-Pacific region, it increased by 20 billion cubic meters," the message added.

IMPORT TO EUROPE

From January to September, Gazprom provided more than half of the total gas imports to Europe, the company said on its Telegram channel.

"Following the results of 9 months, Gazprom's share in Europe's total imports of pipeline and liquefied natural gas exceeded 53%," the statement said.

European countries, the company said, increased imports by 18 billion cubic meters (7.5%) compared to the same period in 2020 amid growing demand and a decrease in their own production of natural gas.

Imports of pipeline gas increased by 31 billion cubic meters (20.4%), Gazprom provided almost half of this volume - 48%, while imports of liquefied natural gas, on the contrary, decreased - by 13 billion cubic meters (14.5%).

The company adds that, according to preliminary estimates, gas consumption in the world this year will grow by 150 billion and will amount to 4.2 trillion cubic meters. The largest growth in gas demand is observed in Russia, China and European countries. More than a third of the growth in gas consumption in the world will be covered by an increase in gas production by Gazprom, the company said. Against the background of high demand, it increased gas production and in ten and a half months of 2021 increased it by 58.8 billion cubic meters (15.2%) compared to the same period last year.

"Despite the changing price environment - rising gas prices in Asia and Europe - as well as new initiatives to decarbonize the economy, leading research organizations continue to predict significant growth in global gas consumption in the medium and long term," Gazprom also reported ".

 

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 11/19/2021 at 7:02 PM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

This article appears to be probing BP's interests. Conspirologically minded induhviduals claim that the funny share maneuver of Rosneft's obfuscates a hidden BP stake. Whether it is like this or not, BP is one useful canary in the mine, as they consider both Russian and Azeri wholesale gas prices a highway robbery and pump it all back into the well to extract more oil wherever they've got a PSA share. So, wholesale gas prices and CO2 alternate are also their pet peeves. (This may change now with new prices. Note that Lukoil just bough out Petrobras at Azeri Shah Deniz field and now owns 25% of the works, behind BP's 28.5% only)

The real gamechanger is going to be massive natural gas storage the Chinese are adding up north. Note that their longterm LNG contracts tend to require delivery re-gassied and piped into their internal pipeline network. All their pipelines, be it from Russia or Turkmenistan (soon Iran?) will also end up there. This will turn natural gas into commodity for real, because compressed gas, unlike cryogenic liquefied, can be stored indefinitely. Does seem to also respond well to colder temperature, hence always the North of China. Sample newspiece (there are many more)

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202110/1236658.shtml

The Northern Sea Route is USN-proof

We can just follow your nuclear ice breakers! 😉

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

9 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

We can just follow your nuclear ice breakers! 😉

Trump actually allocated funds for six new heavy icebreakers, but than got distracted and reallocated funds to his space marines. Pew, Pew!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

18 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

We can just follow your nuclear ice breakers! 😉

Beautiful timelapse of one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKaVhXn49xY

Not the largest one anymore, though. (New "Arktika" series is out, "Lider" monstrosity coming up. Going to have like 6x the motorization of your carriers)

Another one just as good. A Canadian-owned, icebreaking LNG carrier named after a Russian polar explorer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZkD9TFXrdU

It is part of series of 15 ships serving Yamal LNG project, of which only the first one is Russian, but named after Christophe de Margerie, former CEO of Total, who died in 2014 collision of his private aircraft with a snow plow in a Moscow airport (or was whacked) The rest are owned by reputable countries, but have Russian names.

They do that to troll the governments, especially yours.

Check out award winning, Russian-owned Aframax tanker operated by Shell on the route to US. It is named after a major Moscow street.

It also got a sister ship named "Samuel Prospect", a non-existing major Moscow street named after Samuel Samuel, the founder of Shell. That one is working the Russian route.

Does not get anymore environmentally wholesome than this

https://www.nor-shipping.com/gagarin-prospect-chosen-as-nor-shipping-2019-next-generation-award-winner/

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Natural gas is my preferred fuel. The nuclear is of interest also. 

https://dfnc.ru/en/journal/2021-4-69/the-arctic-and-russia-s-nuclear-powered-icebreakers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_icebreaker

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

28 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Natural gas is my preferred fuel. The nuclear is of interest also. 

https://dfnc.ru/en/journal/2021-4-69/the-arctic-and-russia-s-nuclear-powered-icebreakers/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear-powered_icebreaker

You missed a generation, Project 22220, which is already out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arktika_(2016_icebreaker)

The last one is the "Lider" class, they just started working on it. First had to build a new and larger shipbuilding plant in the Far East. "Yamal" is the one in the video clip.

[specinho + 470]

 

 

On 11/16/2021 at 3:07 AM, Starschy said:

EU does not cover full Europe. As example Switzerland, Russia are in Europe but not in the EU. The same with Island, Norway, Serbia, Andora, Monaco and I think I would find a few others.

In 1949, the Council of Europe was founded with the idea of unifying Europe to achieve common goals and prevent future wars. Further European integration by some states led to the formation of the European Union (EU), a separate political entity that lies between a confederation and a federation.^[15] The EU originated in Western Europe but has been expanding eastward since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. The currency of most countries of the European Union, the euro, is the most commonly used among Europeans; and the EU's Schengen Area abolishes border, and immigration controls between most of its member states and some non-member states. There exists a political movement favouring the evolution of the European Union into a single federation encompassing much of the continent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

Definition that included Russia, Turkey and such might be from IMF (indicated as c) on the highlighted globe on the right hand side of the top section)??

Ambitious........... but what for?

[Starschy + 211]

Council of Europe has nothing to do with EU. 1949 are only Western Europe Countries Member and not even the large ones. In my opinion the best result was the Helsinki Act 1975 when a set of rules are signed by Eastern Europe and Western Europe Countries. (not only EU countries)

One result of this agreement is ECHR Human rights law.

The EU way startet 1946 with the Montan Union a economic agreement about Coal and Steel.

1957 it was expanded as EWG = European Economic Community. Then a long time nothing happend.

Mid 1984 or so Jacques Delores published the idea of a United European Union

1992 was the start for this Union managed by Mr Delores

2002 was the Day when the Euro as currency started

The eastern Europe Countries hoped for a large Cash infusion from the EU. Poland as example got 9 EURO Billion annually since 2006 till today. There is not a single Highway not financed by EU. 

There is no such thing as United States of Europe. There are some integration points but most relevant ones are inside the National Government. There is no Defence Minister for the EU. OR Foreign Minister. A Representative is available but very limited in his actions.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Starschy