Communist China Declared War on the US Long Ago Part 1 of the 2-part series: The CCP's War on America

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/communist-china-declared-war-on-the-us-long-ago_4124451.html?utm_source=hot_topics_rec&utm_medium=frnt_top

Communist China Declared War on the US Long Ago

Part 1 of the 2-part series: The CCP's War on America

Stu Cvrk

 

November 29, 2021 Updated: November 29, 2021

biggersmaller 

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News Analysis

The age of the Chinese regime’s “benevolence” is long over; war was declared years ago.

Communist China has been at war with its main adversary—the United States of America—for years. Sadly, most Americans have not been paying attention. After Mao Zedong’s death in 1976, the People’s Republic of China (PRC) became quiescent, with a general policy promoted by Deng Xiaoping.

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is partial to the number three for cultural and superstitious reasons. For example, the number three represents Buddha and stands for Heaven, Earth, and human being; and great respect and reverence are given to three historical Chinese kingdoms.

No slouches on superstition and luck, the CCP routinely capitalizes on the number three to pursue its goals and objectives.

A lot of “threes” have been orchestrated by the CCP since 1949.

• Mao’s Three Phase Theory of revolutionary war, which included establishing a secure base of operations, expansion of controlled areas through terror and attacks on isolated enemy units, and destruction of the enemy in large scale battle.
• Mao’s Three Main Rules of People’s Liberation Army (PLA) discipline: 1) obey all orders; 2) take nothing so much as a needle or thread from the masses; and 3) turn in everything captured.
• Mao’s Three Anti-campaign, which “targeted communist cadres who had become too close to China’s capitalists.”
• Mao’s Three Worlds, defined as first world (United States and USSR at the time), second world (Japan, Canada, and Europe), and the third world (everybody else).
• The Three Warfares, which include public opinion warfare, psychological warfare, and legal warfare.
• The Three U.S.-China communiques, which established the flawed “one-China policy” that essentially conceded Taiwan to the PRC.

The CCP’s propensity to capitalize on “the luck of threes” starts right at the top with the appointment of the ruling Chinese leader as general secretary of the CCP, president of the PRC, and chairman of the Central Military Commission. Lucky Xi Jinping! Three jobs filled by one man, which is the essence of the Chinese communist dictatorship, in theory and practice being checked only by the Central Committee of the CCP.

Upon assuming power, Xi launched his own campaign of threes. The first threesome involved grandiose economic initiatives: the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI, also called the “One Belt, One Road”), Made in China 2025, and the 21^st Century Maritime Silk Road. All three were aimed at consolidating China as the world’s leading economy for all time.

Chinese leader Xi Jinping gives a speech at a press conference after the Belt and Road Forum in Beijing, China, on April 27, 2019. (Wang Zhao/Getty Images)

Another example of Xi’s threes was announced last year at the 2020 China International Trade in Services Global Service Trade Summit: 1) jointly create an open and inclusive environment for cooperation; 2) jointly activate the cooperation momentum led by innovation; and 3) jointly create a mutually beneficial and win-win cooperation situation.

A third example is Xi’s “third historical resolution” at the Sixth Plenary session of the 19th Central Committee of the CCP earlier this month, as reported by state-run media. The “historical” reference relates to Xi’s resolution being the third of its kind, following in the footsteps of Mao and Deng. Xi also seeks to triple down by winning a rare third five-year term in office, which would elevate him as the third Chinese “paramount leader” along with Mao and Deng, completing in effect a trifecta or triple threes. This personal objective will likely be achieved during the CCP’s 20^th National Party Congress in 2022.

But the most important “triple three” was Xi’s initiation and/or furtherance of three threes of warfare against the United States in a dramatic departure from the policies of Deng and his successors. Deng’s policies were not overtly belligerent and involved penetrating, coopting, and leveraging international institutions in order to gain access to resources, foreign direct investment, advanced technology, and Western methods in order to restore the Chinese economy and professional class that was destroyed during Mao’s Cultural Revolution.

Xi’s three threes of warfare are directly aimed at elevating China to world leadership while destroying its primary adversary, the United States.

Those nine elements of CCP warfare against the United States and the West include the following:

Ideological (or Political) Warfare

The CCP is aggressively attempting to “discredit the tenets of liberal capitalism so that notions like individual freedom and constitutional democracy come to be seen as the relics of an obsolete system,” according to Tablet Magazine. The goal in undermining democratic values and individual liberties of Western democracies is to both safeguard China’s own authoritarian regime and also to assert world leadership.

Euphemisms such as “whole process democracy,” “socialism with Chinese characteristics,” and “socialist democracy with Chinese characteristics”—that are endlessly repeated by Chinese diplomats and Xi himself—mask the CCP’s true intention to fundamentally change the world order and replace Western liberal democracies with the ideological precepts that lead to CCP authoritarian rule over all nations in the future.

One important aspect of the CCP ideological warfare against the United States has been to foment discord and division among Americans, which has been ongoing for decades. Beijing’s greatest success in that regard to date has been the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement, which was founded by three self-proclaimed Marxist women and has been supported by the Chinese Progressive Association, Freedom Road Socialist Organization, and other pro-Chinese communist organizations (as noted here, here, here, here, and here). BLM-supported Critical Race Theory being taught in public schools continues to divide Americans and sow ideological turmoil in the United States.

Legal Warfare

This is an excellent definition of legal warfare as employed by the CCP: “Legal warfare, at its most basic, involves ‘arguing that one’s own side is obeying the law, criticizing the other side for violating the law [weifa], and making arguments for one’s own side in cases where there are also violations of the law,’” according to The Heritage Foundation.

The CCP’s goal in employing legal warfare is to undermine the international system and especially the Western tradition of the “rule of law” by propagating a Chinese legal framework that supersedes international law.

For example, one CCP objective is to extend the new National Security Law to all Chinese regardless of where they live around the world. With that assumed control comes the ability to influence events and policies in countries that have a significant minority population of Chinese, with the eventual goal being to extend the law in order prosecute anyone who violates its provisions, whether Chinese or not.

According to Article 38 of the law, it can apply even to offenses committed “outside the region by a person who is not a permanent resident of the region.” That means an American penning an editorial for a U.S. newspaper that argues for, say, sanctions against China, could technically fall afoul of the law for “inciting hatred” against Beijing. If its jurisdiction is ever accepted, this will mean the end of national sovereignty of other nations while turning the United Nations into nothing more than a CCP enforcement agency.

Attendees from various forces march next to a banner supporting the new National Security Law at the end of a flag-raising ceremony to mark the 23rd anniversary of Hong Kong’s handover from Britain in Hong Kong on July 1, 2020. (Anthony Wallace/AFP via Getty Images)

Psychological Warfare

While the PLA “Political Work Regulations”—published in 2003 and 2010 that address the employment of psychological warfare—are focused on pre-war activities to “soften up the enemy” for kinetic warfare, the CCP continuously employs the basic concepts to achieve other objectives. For example, to undermine any international coalitions oriented toward stopping PRC aggression and intimidation of its neighbors and others, including forced PLA intrusions into disputed areas, predatory Chinese mercantilist trade practices, rampant continuing economic espionage, and CCP efforts to unilaterally exert Chinese leadership in all spheres of human endeavors.

CCP psychological warfare involves the coordinated use of Chinese leadership, diplomats, and state-run media, as well as CCP-friendly foreign leaders, diplomats, academics, and media to sap the will of Americans and others who publicly impede CCP goals, objectives, and aggressive actions. CCP psychological warfare “includes diplomatic pressure, rumors, false narratives, and harassment to express displeasure, assert hegemony, and convey threats,” according to Marine Corps University.

These actions are all aimed at conveying a perception of lack of public support for anti-China public policies in the United States and other countries while marginalizing voices that speak out about Chinese authoritarian practices.

The ongoing coordinated effort directed against international support for the defense of Taiwan against a PLA attack is a good example of CCP psychological warfare aimed at a particular target.

Conclusion

The above are the first three of the three threes warfare being conducted by the CCP against the United States and the rest of the world. Part II of this series will continue the discussion.

Views expressed in this article are the opinions of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.

 

Stu Cvrk

 

Following

Stu Cvrk retired as a captain after serving 30 years in the U.S. Navy in a variety of active and reserve capacities, with considerable operational experience in the Middle East and the Western Pacific. Through education and experience as an oceanographer and systems analyst, Cvrk is a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, where he received a classical liberal education that serves as the key foundation for his political commentary.

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/surprise-electromagnetic-attack-from-china-part-of-beijings-new-blitzkrieg-strategy-experts_4130844.html

Surprise Electromagnetic Attack From China Part of Beijing’s ‘New Blitzkrieg’ Strategy: Experts

An EMP attack centered over New York City could cover the entirety of the northeastern United States, paralyzing the power grid and sparking mass chaos

By Andrew Thornebrooke

 

December 1, 2021 Updated: December 3, 2021

biggersmaller 

[frankfurter + 562]

The Chinese have stated for 60 years, to achieve world peace and prosperity, the world must choose a win-win strategy.  Win-win is not war.

Only Americans label everything as a war. The only people who use war as their primary tool is the Americans. Only the Americans float their navy into so-called international waters, waters that would otherwise be free from military threats. Only the Americans bomb, invade, and sanction other countries, killing untold millions, and stating the murder of 500,000 children "was worth it". In prior posts, ronwagn has declared he is favour of the American war efforts.

[Tomasz + 1,608]

In this context, I wonder what the Americans were really counting on when starting the Ukrainian crisis.

Maidan was worth the unequivocal final  decision by Russia to an alliance with China?T

The Americans pressed down hard on Russia all the time after 1991, they tried to push Russia out of Europe until they were finally pushed into Chinese hands.

Maybe they were not fully aware how map of Euroasia really looks like?

I wonder what George Kennan or Henry Kissinger are thinking in earth of haven..

In truth, the Russians now seem not to want to bet on a dead horse in the fight for global domination.

In my opinion, in the context of extreme hard rivalry with China, NATO enlargement against Russia's protests seems to be a master strategy  in a long game.

The arrogant refusal to take into account Russian interests after the Cold War, instead bombing their allies, expanding NATO to Russian borders in contravention of verbal commitments made to the USSR, and for all intents and purposes treating it as a defeated Power, may have made sense when it seemed that the US would be the world’s dominant hyperpower for the foreseeable future and Russia was doomed to die anyway – as was conventional wisdom by the late 1990s.

And from a purely Realpolitik perspective, the results have hardly been catastrophic; the US gained a geopolitical foothold in Eastern Europe, tied up further European integration into an Atlantic framework, and closed off the possibility of the “Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok” envisaged by Charles de Gaulle.

On the other hand, in a world where China is fast becoming a peer competitor – with the implicit backing of a resentful Russia – this may, in retrospect, not have been the best long-term play

I would say more not the best but extremely stupid.

Blue – approve of USA; orange – disapprove.

Around 75%-80% of Russians approved of the United States around 1990, versus <10% disapproval.

By modern standards, this would have put Russia into the top leagues of America fans, such as Poland, Israel, and the United Kingdom. It was also around 10%-15% points higher than contemporary US approval of Russia.

Incidentally, Soviet propaganda was never anti-American. It was anti-capitalist, an important distinction. Whereas in America, anti-Russian propaganda has always been anti-Russian.

What’s remarkable to me about that graph of opinion over time is how pig-headedly resilient Russian naivety about the US has been. Time after time it appears the scales would fall from Russians’ eyes after the US regime disgraced itself particularly egregiously (Kosovo, Iraq, Georgia), and within a few months approval would be back up to 50% or above. It took the interference in the Ukraine in 2014 to finally make the truth stick.

Its lost case for USA- literally stupid matter of turning a potential ally against the real rival China into an enemy and ally of said rival.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Tomasz

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:03 PM, frankfurter said:

The Chinese have stated for 60 years, to achieve world peace and prosperity, the world must choose a win-win strategy.  Win-win is not war.

Only Americans label everything as a war. The only people who use war as their primary tool is the Americans. Only the Americans float their navy into so-called international waters, waters that would otherwise be free from military threats. Only the Americans bomb, invade, and sanction other countries, killing untold millions, and stating the murder of 500,000 children "was worth it". In prior posts, ronwagn has declared he is favour of the American war efforts.

Are you talking about abortions? I would agree there. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Chinese warfare is multifaceted as we are finally learning. They are not content with FAIR TRADE, which I support, they focus on controlling companies that have plants in their country, using slave labor, oppressing their minority groups including religions, and even copying brand name products and selling them worldwide! 

https://www.theepochtimes.com/over-13000-fake-designer-products-from-china-seized-holiday-shoppers-told-to-beware_4138427.html

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/china-technology-theft-fbi-biggest-threat

China theft of technology is biggest law enforcement threat to US, FBI says

This article is more than 1 year old

• Christopher Wray says China using ‘any means necessary’
• Chinese theft of US trade secrets costing ‘$300bn-$600bn a year’

[Andrew Neopalimy + 14]

China and Russia "in two years" through the peaceful and simultaneous return of their territories (the former Ukrainian SSR / the current national-fascist O / Ukraine of Russia and Chiang Kai-shek's of Taiwan) will put the United States in a transverse sagging twine position, from which Mrs. American Exceptionalism is already never get up

Edited December 6, 2021 by Andrew Neopalimy

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

18 hours ago, ronwagn said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/china-technology-theft-fbi-biggest-threat

China theft of technology is biggest law enforcement threat to US, FBI says

This article is more than 1 year old

• Christopher Wray says China using ‘any means necessary’
• Chinese theft of US trade secrets costing ‘$300bn-$600bn a year’

Genuine Chinese innovation is a much bigger threat by far

[RichieRich216 + 454]

We should have left them to the Japanese!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Genuine Chinese innovation is a much bigger threat by far

What would be the examples?

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, RichieRich216 said:

We should have left them to the Japanese!

The Japanese were brutal, but no more brutal than the Chinese are today. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 12/4/2021 at 6:07 PM, Tomasz said:

In this context, I wonder what the Americans were really counting on when starting the Ukrainian crisis.

Maidan was worth the unequivocal final  decision by Russia to an alliance with China?T

The Americans pressed down hard on Russia all the time after 1991, they tried to push Russia out of Europe until they were finally pushed into Chinese hands.

Maybe they were not fully aware how map of Euroasia really looks like?

I wonder what George Kennan or Henry Kissinger are thinking in earth of haven..

In truth, the Russians now seem not to want to bet on a dead horse in the fight for global domination.

In my opinion, in the context of extreme hard rivalry with China, NATO enlargement against Russia's protests seems to be a master strategy  in a long game.

The arrogant refusal to take into account Russian interests after the Cold War, instead bombing their allies, expanding NATO to Russian borders in contravention of verbal commitments made to the USSR, and for all intents and purposes treating it as a defeated Power, may have made sense when it seemed that the US would be the world’s dominant hyperpower for the foreseeable future and Russia was doomed to die anyway – as was conventional wisdom by the late 1990s.

And from a purely Realpolitik perspective, the results have hardly been catastrophic; the US gained a geopolitical foothold in Eastern Europe, tied up further European integration into an Atlantic framework, and closed off the possibility of the “Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok” envisaged by Charles de Gaulle.

On the other hand, in a world where China is fast becoming a peer competitor – with the implicit backing of a resentful Russia – this may, in retrospect, not have been the best long-term play

I would say more not the best but extremely stupid.

Blue – approve of USA; orange – disapprove.

Around 75%-80% of Russians approved of the United States around 1990, versus <10% disapproval.

By modern standards, this would have put Russia into the top leagues of America fans, such as Poland, Israel, and the United Kingdom. It was also around 10%-15% points higher than contemporary US approval of Russia.

Incidentally, Soviet propaganda was never anti-American. It was anti-capitalist, an important distinction. Whereas in America, anti-Russian propaganda has always been anti-Russian.

What’s remarkable to me about that graph of opinion over time is how pig-headedly resilient Russian naivety about the US has been. Time after time it appears the scales would fall from Russians’ eyes after the US regime disgraced itself particularly egregiously (Kosovo, Iraq, Georgia), and within a few months approval would be back up to 50% or above. It took the interference in the Ukraine in 2014 to finally make the truth stick.

Its lost case for USA- literally stupid matter of turning a potential ally against the real rival China into an enemy and ally of said rival.

The Ukrainians, including Crimea had a free country and changed their leaders on their own. There was no army inserted into their country, as the Russians did. Ukraine will have armament to combat Russia and should have volunteers from other countries join them to oppose the Russians. Russia wants to pick off former members of the USSR bit by bit while holding the option of shutting off natural gas to them in the middle of the winter. The United States, under President Trump strongly warned them that this could happen. Merkel did not heed this and she is the actual leader of NATO. She was a young communist in East Germany and speaks perfect Russian. Europe needs to decide whether to fight now, or be at further disadvantage!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

3 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

We should have left them to the Japanese!

"You" contributed jack to liberating them. The Soviets did that.

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Fucking Liberals did it. Patton thought that since we had an Army in Europe we should go through the Soviets, Guess history proved him right! Considering the Trillions spent on the cold war!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

What would be the examples?

Huawei networking gear? They reverse-engineer stuff, but instead of copying, throw out the junk that nobody needs. Grandfathered-in bugs and Ameican back doors (many things are both)

This toy

https://smile.amazon.com/Hoberman-Switch-Ball-1-Colors-Styles/dp/B003KCG9IM/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=hoberman+sphere

It is similarly profound to Rubic's cube. Now, they nicked the name of Chuck Hoberman, who is a somewhat reputable source of spherical shaped puzzles, being an MIT-educated architect.

He didn't invent that one though. This one illustrates the notable artifact of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere_eversion (aka "Smale's paradox")

Did you understand anything in the Wiki? Fret not, neither did the people who wrote the article. It is counterintuitive as fuck. Basically says that you can always turn a sphere inside out without breaking it. If you try to ask an actual mathematician to show you, they'll try to wiggle out of it by saying that it only works for mathematically abstract sphere with infinitesimally thin walls or some such.

AFAIK, the only official mathematician who's been able to actually show how its done on an actual sphere was recently deceased John Conway. His mechanism was not as good. It had twenty "topological events" instead of minimally required three. This toy, you simply throw up into the air with a light spin and it flips itself inside out by itself.

This has tremendous implications for ecumenism, me thinks, finally allowing the concept of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

which the Catholic doctrine demands. Basically, the woman managed to stay a virgin not only all the way before giving birth to Jesus, but also afterwards! Also, after giving birth to a dozen more of Jesus' younger siblings with her official husband, as rabbinical Jewish writings strongly suggest.

Now, all of this is actually possible if only we assume that Mary was sufficiently spherically shaped Math is more powerful than any faith, Ron.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

The Japanese were brutal, but no more brutal than the Chinese are today. 

What would be the examples? To quote a great sage I know.

Spare me the stories of Uygur concentration camps where they are harvested for organs. Xinyang happens to be open to foreign tourists. People went and checked for themselves. There are lots of unusually militarized police there and what got to be the largest ever bundles of CCTV cameras hanging around, but that's about it. No organ harvesting concentration camps. Yet another BS story manufactured by US propaganda.

Should we discuss some of the things that Japanese did? They've probably outdone the German Nazis.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

27 minutes ago, RichieRich216 said:

Fucking Liberals did it. Patton thought that since we had an Army in Europe we should go through the Soviets, Guess history proved him right! Considering the Trillions spent on the cold war!

You would've seen the Soviets going through you instead.

Patton should've stuck to what he knew best - designing the most impressive outfits for the tanker corps

https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/b3ctbv/general_george_patton_wearing_his_proposed/

No, not really. Can't say he was any good at that, either. Tried very hard though.

If not for the Cold War, they would've come up with some other reasons to spend more on dubious armaments. "Them" including your "Liberals" too, BTW. You don't really have a party of peace. It is as American as apple pie.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Not feeling the love!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

25 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

What would be the examples? To quote a great sage I know.

Spare me the stories of Uygur concentration camps where they are harvested for organs. Xinyang happens to be open to foreign tourists. People went and checked for themselves. There are lots of unusually militarized police there and what got to be the largest ever bundles of CCTV cameras hanging around, but that's about it. No organ harvesting concentration camps. Yet another BS story manufactured by US propaganda.

Should we discuss some of the things that Japanese did? They've probably outdone the German Nazis.

China can thank America for defeating Japan and heavy bombing of the Japanese in China. We could have made a deal with Japan instead and let them keep China. 

Russia can thank America for supplying them to fight against Germany. Otherwise there would be no Russia. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

The Ukrainians, including Crimea had a free country and changed their leaders on their own. There was no army inserted into their country, as the Russians did. Ukraine will have armament to combat Russia and should have volunteers from other countries join them to oppose the Russians. Russia wants to pick off former members of the USSR bit by bit while holding the option of shutting off natural gas to them in the middle of the winter. The United States, under President Trump strongly warned them that this could happen. Merkel did not heed this and she is the actual leader of NATO. She was a young communist in East Germany and speaks perfect Russian. Europe needs to decide whether to fight now, or be at further disadvantage!

So, if the Ukrainians had such a free and democratic country, why didn't they allow Pres. Yanukovich's term to run to its natural conclusion and be re-elected? He only had about a year and a half in office left? He also agreed to snap elections. What was the point of overthrowing him by force, anyway? He still had about 36% approval rating when he got the boot, BTW. To put this into perspective, Ze has about 25% now. Poroshenko's last was about 15%. The last Western stooge, Yushenko - less than 5%,

Russia wants nothing from the members of ex-USSR, with possible exception of Belarus  From other places, it gets immigrant labor (including a few millions out of Ukraine) Because it would have to subsidize them, just like it was during USSR. The strategic industrial assets like ship-, aircraft-, turbine and engine-building which Ukraine used to have are gone, destroyed. Russia already has domestically sourced replacements for most of these. The best people Ukraine used to have are in Russia already. Why would it need this empty husk?

Assuming there is any truth the current escalation at all, somebody wants Ze to mount an all-out attack on LDNR, such that Russia makes a move to protect them. The propaganda twerps pick up from there and make it look like Russia attacked first. This has been tried before. Everybody who participated tends to be dead by unfathomable means. Possibly the Russians too, because nobody has really seen any.

You should seriously leave my people alone, and by my people, I also mean the Ukrainians.

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

3 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

So, if the Ukrainians had such a free and democratic country, why didn't they allow Pres. Yanukovich's term to run to its natural conclusion and be re-elected? He only had about a year and a half in office left? He also agreed to snap elections. What was the point of overthrowing him by force, anyway? He still had about 36% approval rating when he got the boot, BTW. To put this into perspective, Ze has about 25% now. Poroshenko's last was about 15%. The last Western stooge, Yushenko - less than 5%,

Russia wants nothing from the members of ex-USSR, with possible exception of Belarus  From other places, it gets immigrant labor (including a few millions out of Ukraine) Because it would have to subsidize them, just like it was during USSR. The strategic industrial assets like ship-, aircraft-, turbine and engine-building which Ukraine used to have are gone, destroyed. Russia already has domestically sourced replacements for most of these. The best people Ukraine used to have are in Russia already. Why would it need this empty husk?

Assuming there is any truth the current escalation at all, somebody wants Ze to mount an all-out attack on LDNR, such that Russia makes a move to protect them. The propaganda twerps pick up from there and make it look like Russia attacked first. This has been tried before. Everybody who participated tends to be dead by unfathomable means. Possibly the Russians too, because nobody has really seen any.

You should seriously leave my people alone, and by my people, I also mean the Ukrainians.

In one way "your people" means your equals; the other way "your people" means your subordinates. That's the difference. 

To be fair, the US should stop treating the world like its America's responsibility to protect/power broker. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

55 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

China can thank America for defeating Japan and heavy bombing of the Japanese in China. We could have made a deal with Japan instead and let them keep China. 

Russia can thank America for supplying them to fight against Germany. Otherwise there would be no Russia. 

You couldn't have, because the Soviets were there. Also, in Korea, where you effectively made such a deal, in effect laying the foundation for the upcoming Korean war. The Americans were bombing the Japanese IN China? Do tell me more. I can only find evidence of them bombing the Japanese mainland FROM China. USSR would've finished Japan without you, too. Which is a bigger reason why they threw in the towel than the nukes.

USSR did thank and even paid a bit of gold for the stuff you sent. Lend-lease amounted to about 11% of all materiel used by USSR. Very important, but hardly as dramatic as you make it out to be.

Again, USSR was not (only) Russia. There were 15 constituent parts, one of which was Soviet Ukraine. Retrospectively, a stupid setup eventually used to break the country up. Should've kept the Russian Imperial one, where there was no authonomies based on ethnicity.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

6 minutes ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

In one way "your people" means your equals; the other way "your people" means your subordinates. That's the difference. 

To be fair, the US should stop treating the world like its America's responsibility to protect/power broker. 

My people are the Soviet people. Since when were Ukrainians subordinate to Russians in USSR? Khrushev, Brezhnev and Gorbatchev were at least half-Ukrainiian. (the first two also made their careers in Ukraine) This means USSR was longer under Ukrainian administration than under Russian one, or what?

The Soviet breakup caught plenty of nominal Russians in Ukraine and visa-versa. Should we perhaps restore the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ukraine (Trans-Cathay) on the border with China. The instigators, the so-called "Baikal Cossacks" are now based in Australia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Ukraine (Kazakhstan)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Ukraine (Volga region)

These were all attempts by local Ukrainian majority to spin off their own statelet.

Other precedents from Ukrainian history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhnovshchina (official rule of anarchy)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ruin_(Ukrainian_history) (previous attempt at European integration)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_in_Malinovka (max loyalty to the central government, whichever it may be)

Knowing all these, I can conclude that the Ukrainians will come back to their senses. The whole thing is about as stupid as USA splitting up into red and blue states and going to war with each other. Well, from your point of view, I guess. From my point of view, you should totally do this and leave the rest of the world alone.

US is neither a protector of anybody, nor a broker of anything. Not for free, anyway. Everything you do is in your own self-interest. Or whatever is currently perceived as such. At some point, it was decided that it is against US interests to allow re-emergence of economic block in the wake of USSR. From most other people's point of view, it made perfect sense, as most of the existing customer-supplier relationships were split across the many new borders and customs lines.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers

https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/holodomor

Edited December 7, 2021 by ronwagn
reference