Why did Russia want Crimea 2014 ? Oil ? Why now does Putin want Eastern Ukraine ?

[Tomasz + 1,608]

I suggest spending half an hour and watch this - russian well-known expert Fiodor Lukianov explain russian point of view in english

Fyodor Lukyanov, Editor-in-Chief of Russia In Global Affairs journal, Chairman of Russia's Council for Foreign & Defence Policy and Research Director at the Valdai Club, explains why 100,000 soldiers Russian soldiers assembled on the borders of Ukraine doesn't mean Russian president Vladimir Putin will go to war over Ukraine, but that his actions are motivated by NATO's expansion eastwards. 

Lukyanov speaks about peaceful coexistence in Europe and why Putin will never allow Russians to suffer the economic collapse and humiliation that they experienced with the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

Lukianov

 

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

I realize that there is a lot of complexity - I'm something of an amateur historian, and my son and I were discussing the political and historical situation in the Crimea yesterday as a matter of fact.  I just don't see what point or objective you see in that history that paints Russia into some geopolitical corner.  

The Russian empire for a very very long time owned Ukraine and the Crimea. Several wars were fought in the area, and Russian control was firm.  At the end of World War 1,  Russia was forced to give up Ukraine in it's peace with Germany, but it was given back after the all allies ended up beating Germany. 

The history that really matters for the current situation is the part below:

The Ukraine broke away from Russia and too the Crimea  with itin 1991  Crimea had been made a part of Ukraine, as you note by Kruschev.  At that time being in the Ukraine in the USSR meant the same as being in Florida in the USA.  Russia then, and now had always made it clear that they wanted the Crimea back for military strategic reasons, and the inclusion of the Crimea in Ukraine came with a proviso that the the Russian Black Sea fleet be allowed to continue using it's military bases there.  

Then in 2014 the Russians made a power grab and took Crimea by force in a way that was/is clearly illegal by international law, and they have held it ever since, and don't seem likely to leave any time soon. 

So what part of history makes this situation different from what I have outlined in very broad strokes here?    

I have my own bias and it favors a free Ukraine. I also favor a free Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Turkey, Tibet, Taiwan, China, Russia, etc. Any country that has a dictator is on my list. The road to dictatorship is best achieved through "democratic socialism", that eventually turns into a dictatorship of the elites rather than the proletariat which is the myth of Marxism/Leninism. 

America is not exempt and is possibly on the road to socialism, even though it is still free to a great extent. Maybe one of the few that is still largely free IMHO. 

I was in favor of Brexit for Britain but the current "conservative" party is not worthy of its name. Britain and the European Union have both become run by vast governmental bureaucracies that leave little room for freedom. 

You can easily see how things are going in Canada, and it is an ongoing struggle for liberty rather than bureaucracy. 

Our Democrat Party is having trouble imposing the virtual dictatorship it obviously seeks. The coming elections will hopefully weaken them greatly, but then we have the RINO's to deal with as well. Crony Capitalists include Democrats and RINOS. Both are in league with China and many have gotten very wealthy with their various arrangements with big business and China etc. Nancy Pelosi, and Mitt Romney are just two prime examples among many. 

Those are a few of my broad strokes. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

9 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

I realize that there is a lot of complexity - I'm something of an amateur historian, and my son and I were discussing the political and historical situation in the Crimea yesterday as a matter of fact.  I just don't see what point or objective you see in that history that paints Russia into some geopolitical corner.  

The Russian empire for a very very long time owned Ukraine and the Crimea. Several wars were fought in the area, and Russian control was firm.  At the end of World War 1,  Russia was forced to give up Ukraine in it's peace with Germany, but it was given back after the all allies ended up beating Germany. 

The history that really matters for the current situation is the part below:

The Ukraine broke away from Russia and too the Crimea  with itin 1991  Crimea had been made a part of Ukraine, as you note by Kruschev.  At that time being in the Ukraine in the USSR meant the same as being in Florida in the USA.  Russia then, and now had always made it clear that they wanted the Crimea back for military strategic reasons, and the inclusion of the Crimea in Ukraine came with a proviso that the the Russian Black Sea fleet be allowed to continue using it's military bases there.  

Then in 2014 the Russians made a power grab and took Crimea by force in a way that was/is clearly illegal by international law, and they have held it ever since, and don't seem likely to leave any time soon. 

So what part of history makes this situation different from what I have outlined in very broad strokes here?    

You might like to watch this film to see another perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Harvest_(2017_film)

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, Tomasz said:

I suggest spending half an hour and watch this - russian well-known expert Fiodor Lukianov explain russian point of view in english

Fyodor Lukyanov, Editor-in-Chief of Russia In Global Affairs journal, Chairman of Russia's Council for Foreign & Defence Policy and Research Director at the Valdai Club, explains why 100,000 soldiers Russian soldiers assembled on the borders of Ukraine doesn't mean Russian president Vladimir Putin will go to war over Ukraine, but that his actions are motivated by NATO's expansion eastwards. 

Lukyanov speaks about peaceful coexistence in Europe and why Putin will never allow Russians to suffer the economic collapse and humiliation that they experienced with the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

Lukianov

 

 

Here is another perspective. Free Ukraine and the Holodomor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Harvest_(2017_film)

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, Tomasz said:

I suggest spending half an hour and watch this - russian well-known expert Fiodor Lukianov explain russian point of view in english

Fyodor Lukyanov, Editor-in-Chief of Russia In Global Affairs journal, Chairman of Russia's Council for Foreign & Defence Policy and Research Director at the Valdai Club, explains why 100,000 soldiers Russian soldiers assembled on the borders of Ukraine doesn't mean Russian president Vladimir Putin will go to war over Ukraine, but that his actions are motivated by NATO's expansion eastwards. 

Lukyanov speaks about peaceful coexistence in Europe and why Putin will never allow Russians to suffer the economic collapse and humiliation that they experienced with the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

Lukianov

 

 

Tell us how the Soviet Union crumbled. It crumbled because it stole the freedom of millions because it had the opportunity to do so in the name of Godless communism and its totalitarian leaders. Then tell us why the Russian people are still poor while Putin and his cronies are wealthy. Why Moscow does well but the rest of Russia suffers. 

[bobo88 + 58]

12 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I have my own bias and it favors a free Ukraine. I also favor a free Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Turkey, Tibet, Taiwan, China, Russia, etc. Any country that has a dictator is on my list. The road to dictatorship is best achieved through "democratic socialism", that eventually turns into a dictatorship of the elites rather than the proletariat which is the myth of Marxism/Leninism. 

America is not exempt and is possibly on the road to socialism, even though it is still free to a great extent. Maybe one of the few that is still largely free IMHO. 

I was in favor of Brexit for Britain but the current "conservative" party is not worthy of its name. Britain and the European Union have both become run by vast governmental bureaucracies that leave little room for freedom. 

You can easily see how things are going in Canada, and it is an ongoing struggle for liberty rather than bureaucracy. 

Our Democrat Party is having trouble imposing the virtual dictatorship it obviously seeks. The coming elections will hopefully weaken them greatly, but then we have the RINO's to deal with as well. Crony Capitalists include Democrats and RINOS. Both are in league with China and many have gotten very wealthy with their various arrangements with big business and China etc. Nancy Pelosi, and Mitt Romney are just two prime examples among many. 

Those are a few of my broad strokes. 

I'm more worried about U.S. future then a corrupt Ukraine that is lining the pockets of their leaders (and Hunter) with cash.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by bobo88

[Eric Gagen + 713]

 

11 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I have my own bias and it favors a free Ukraine. I also favor a free Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Turkey, Tibet, Taiwan, China, Russia, etc. Any country that has a dictator is on my list. The road to dictatorship is best achieved through "democratic socialism", that eventually turns into a dictatorship of the elites rather than the proletariat which is the myth of Marxism/Leninism. 

America is not exempt and is possibly on the road to socialism, even though it is still free to a great extent. Maybe one of the few that is still largely free IMHO. 

I was in favor of Brexit for Britain but the current "conservative" party is not worthy of its name. Britain and the European Union have both become run by vast governmental bureaucracies that leave little room for freedom. 

You can easily see how things are going in Canada, and it is an ongoing struggle for liberty rather than bureaucracy. 

Our Democrat Party is having trouble imposing the virtual dictatorship it obviously seeks. The coming elections will hopefully weaken them greatly, but then we have the RINO's to deal with as well. Crony Capitalists include Democrats and RINOS. Both are in league with China and many have gotten very wealthy with their various arrangements with big business and China etc. Nancy Pelosi, and Mitt Romney are just two prime examples among many. 

Those are a few of my broad strokes. 

10 hours ago, ronwagn said:

You might like to watch this film to see another perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Harvest_(2017_film)

I also favor a free Ukraine, but that's a separate issue from the status of the Crimea. The overall political climate in other places is also a separate issue  Even all of our current and past political leadership seem to be willing and able to draw the distinction between the current crisis in the Ukraine, and the status of Crimea. 

You might note that no where in any of the negotiations about Russian 'claims' and threats with respect to the Ukraine has anyone suggested that the Crimea ought, to be returned.  It's a separate issue, and nobody wants to connect them. 

[bobo88 + 58]

22 hours ago, Tomasz said:

I suggest spending half an hour and watch this - russian well-known expert Fiodor Lukianov explain russian point of view in english

Fyodor Lukyanov, Editor-in-Chief of Russia In Global Affairs journal, Chairman of Russia's Council for Foreign & Defence Policy and Research Director at the Valdai Club, explains why 100,000 soldiers Russian soldiers assembled on the borders of Ukraine doesn't mean Russian president Vladimir Putin will go to war over Ukraine, but that his actions are motivated by NATO's expansion eastwards. 

Lukyanov speaks about peaceful coexistence in Europe and why Putin will never allow Russians to suffer the economic collapse and humiliation that they experienced with the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

Lukianov

 

 

Putin and Biden to talk today (Saturday)

We all know the Administration wouldn't let Joe talk to Putin without something prepared to offer.  Putin talking to Joe ?

Usually, these high level talks are preplanned and fully scripted.  We will soon see what Putin really wants.

1. Does Putin want all of Ukraine.  I think not.

2. Does Putin want the pro Russian , Russian speaking Eastern 1/3 of Ukraine ? Or just those 5-7 omblasts right along the border? Maybe.

3. Does Putin want or will settle for a Minsk Accord type agreement for the Eastern 1/3 of Ukraine. 

4. Does Putin want absolute guarantee that Ukraine will not become a NATO member or more security demands ? He wants that but will he settle for that IF NATO now backs down from previous stance.

I believe Putin is in the driver seat.  He controls the outcome.  

If he wants any part of Ukraine there is no better time to act then now while Joe is in the Whitehouse. It may be his last chance. 

Is Putin just going thru the motions just to say, " I tried everything to no avail " ? 

I wouldn't be surprised if at the NATO country's meeting yesterday they put together their best and final offer.  Putin can't say no to taking Biden's  call.  

If Putin really wants Ukraine or a third of it he will say no.

If this call is already preplanned and  cleared with both sides they may set up a Summit.  Go thru the motions. Finalize the pre agreed details.  Both Joe and Putin save face and can declare victory. Both can share the Nobel Peace Prize.

My guess:. I think Putin wants the eastern oblasts that directly border Russia at a minimum. At most everything east of Dnieper River or something in between.

The Russian troops in Belarus are a decoy to force Ukraine to commit resources to the northern front.  The Russians may enter Ukraine in the north but have no intentions of going to or near Kiev in my opinion.

I did here of a statement this morning from the U.S. that they would "reinforce" Ukraine's troops in the east if Russia enters Ukraine.  What does "reinforce" mean?

Maybe NATO let's Russia take the 5-7 border oblasts , cease fire is called and everyone is happy ?  Which sounds like the original plan before Joe slipped up and let it out, as Joe blabbed ,"  .  .  .  . minor incursion acceptable, then we decide what to do"

Then Joe says he stopped the Russians from taking all of Ukraine and still gets his Nobel Peace prize. 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by bobo88

[bobo88 + 58]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:57 PM, Tomasz said:

I suggest spending half an hour and watch this - russian well-known expert Fiodor Lukianov explain russian point of view in english

Fyodor Lukyanov, Editor-in-Chief of Russia In Global Affairs journal, Chairman of Russia's Council for Foreign & Defence Policy and Research Director at the Valdai Club, explains why 100,000 soldiers Russian soldiers assembled on the borders of Ukraine doesn't mean Russian president Vladimir Putin will go to war over Ukraine, but that his actions are motivated by NATO's expansion eastwards. 

Lukyanov speaks about peaceful coexistence in Europe and why Putin will never allow Russians to suffer the economic collapse and humiliation that they experienced with the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

Lukianov

 

 

Biden dispatches three nuclear capable bombers to Britain.

Joe Biden is one tough hombre..

" .  .  .  .  .  The U.S. Air Force deployed four B-52 strategic nuclear bombers to the U.K. beginning on Thursday, escalating an ongoing crisis surrounding a possible Russian invasion of Ukraine, Military magazine reported.

Putin has to respond to this publicly.  Joe is going to start WW lll .  Trying to demean Putin in public limits any opportunity for a negotiated settlement.  Joe is on a Afghanistan redemption crusade at any costs.  He will end up supply Billions to Ukraine for a losing cause and risk escalating the conflict.  Joe doesn't care. 

This dangerous.

 

Biden will do or say anything to not have to talk about U.S. crime wave, inflation, Southern border, Afghanistan withdrawal, failed legislation, his cognitive decline and his LOW poll numbers.

U.S., British, French, German leaders all made the highly publicized trips to each other's Capital plus Moscow and Kiev to show us that NATO is strong and united, they are great leaders in search of peace and how they stand up against Putin.

Meanwhile, Putin is laughing at them (especially Biden) .  The NATO country leaders could give a "f" about Putin taking some eastern territory in a corrupt Ukraine.  

They need Putin's oil and natural gas.

Don't forget Biden gave Putin the "green light" quote , "  .  .  .  minor incursion is acceptable, the we decide what to do"

BIden in his current mental state is dangerous. God Save America.

Edited February 26, 2022 by bobo88

[ronwagn + 6,290]

9 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

 

I also favor a free Ukraine, but that's a separate issue from the status of the Crimea. The overall political climate in other places is also a separate issue  Even all of our current and past political leadership seem to be willing and able to draw the distinction between the current crisis in the Ukraine, and the status of Crimea. 

You might note that no where in any of the negotiations about Russian 'claims' and threats with respect to the Ukraine has anyone suggested that the Crimea ought, to be returned.  It's a separate issue, and nobody wants to connect them. 

I do. The Crimean Tatars do, and I suspect that many Crimean residents do despite being afraid of standing openly for Ukraine. It is what it is. Right now, my guess, is that Putin's greatest wish is for a land bridge to Crimea through Ukraine. He knows that his bridge can be easily taken out if desired. Crimea is rightly part of Ukraine IMO. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

9 hours ago, bobo88 said:

I'm more worried about U.S. future then a corrupt Ukraine that is lining the pockets of their leaders (and Hunter) with cash.

 

"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee." John Donne

https://interestingliterature.com/2021/08/never-send-for-whom-the-bell-tolls-it-tolls-for-thee-meaning-analysis/

Edited February 13, 2022 by ronwagn
spelling

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/04/how-war-would-change-russia-a76261

How War Would Change Russia

Rather than losing control, the authorities would actually be able to strengthen their grip in the events of a war with Ukraine.

By Tatyana Stanovaya

Feb. 4, 2022

The new level of repression would eventually destroy Putin IMHO. He is the obvious cancer that besets Russia. RCW

    

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/10/2022 at 1:40 AM, ronwagn said:

Russia took Crimea, by force, from the Crimean Tatars and later fought a long war for it and lost. They eventually emigrated lots of Russians into parts of Ukraine and Crimea. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine

Russians were there before Crimean Tatars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tmutarakan

And so were Greeks and even Italians (Genoans)

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:20 AM, ronwagn said:

I do. The Crimean Tatars do, and I suspect that many Crimean residents do despite being afraid of standing openly for Ukraine. It is what it is. Right now, my guess, is that Putin's greatest wish is for a land bridge to Crimea through Ukraine. He knows that his bridge can be easily taken out if desired. Crimea is rightly part of Ukraine IMO. 

The Crimean Tatars do not. Ukraine did jack for them while it could. The overwhelming majority of Crimean residents were against being part of Ukraine. Always been that way as long as I can remember.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[frankfurter + 562]

On 2/12/2022 at 11:04 AM, ronwagn said:

I have my own bias and it favors a free Ukraine. I also favor a free Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Turkey, Tibet, Taiwan, China, Russia, etc. Any country that has a dictator is on my list. The road to dictatorship is best achieved through "democratic socialism", that eventually turns into a dictatorship of the elites rather than the proletariat which is the myth of Marxism/Leninism. 

America is not exempt and is possibly on the road to socialism, even though it is still free to a great extent. Maybe one of the few that is still largely free IMHO. 

I was in favor of Brexit for Britain but the current "conservative" party is not worthy of its name. Britain and the European Union have both become run by vast governmental bureaucracies that leave little room for freedom. 

You can easily see how things are going in Canada, and it is an ongoing struggle for liberty rather than bureaucracy. 

Our Democrat Party is having trouble imposing the virtual dictatorship it obviously seeks. The coming elections will hopefully weaken them greatly, but then we have the RINO's to deal with as well. Crony Capitalists include Democrats and RINOS. Both are in league with China and many have gotten very wealthy with their various arrangements with big business and China etc. Nancy Pelosi, and Mitt Romney are just two prime examples among many. 

Those are a few of my broad strokes. 

please enumerate your so-called freedoms.

 

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

On 2/12/2022 at 10:31 AM, ronwagn said:

Godless communism

As I suspected. It was never about freedom but about religion. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/10/2022 at 12:57 AM, ronwagn said:

Wrongo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

Not really indigenous, but relatively late Turkish proxies living off slavery. A large number of peoples, including Russians, lived in Crimea before Tatars.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/10/2022 at 1:01 AM, Eric Gagen said:

Granted - the Russians took it by conquest - which was fair and square for everyone back at the time they did it.  But then they held it for a long while afterwards, which has to count as a legitimate claim.  I don't think the way that Russia went about reintegrating it was right, but few people doubt that they had a justifiable reason for wanting to do so.

Russians were there before the Tatars. So were even the Italians (Genoans) Either Greeks or Scythians were first.

The place changed hands many, many times.

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/10/2022 at 1:31 AM, ronwagn said:

The American Indians were a primitive culture with no hope of retaining their land or culture. We have given them many reservations and a lot of land and rights. I am part Apache myself. I believe that there is more Native American blood running in American veins than ever ran before. The Indian reservations are primarily successful because they are able to run casinos and sell tax free cigarettes. There are many very nice reservations. One of my daughters is planning to work on one as a counselor. 

This is the tribe I am related to. https://mescaleroapachetribe.com/parks-rec/eagle-creek-official/

https://innofthemountaingods.com/

 

There is a reservation in the Black Rock Desert, which lives off the Burning Man. Otherwise, nothing even lives there.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:49 PM, Eric Gagen said:

I realize that there is a lot of complexity - I'm something of an amateur historian, and my son and I were discussing the political and historical situation in the Crimea yesterday as a matter of fact.  I just don't see what point or objective you see in that history that paints Russia into some geopolitical corner.  

The Russian empire for a very very long time owned Ukraine and the Crimea. Several wars were fought in the area, and Russian control was firm.  At the end of World War 1,  Russia was forced to give up Ukraine in it's peace with Germany, but it was given back after the all allies ended up beating Germany. 

The history that really matters for the current situation is the part below:

The Ukraine broke away from Russia and too the Crimea  with itin 1991  Crimea had been made a part of Ukraine, as you note by Kruschev.  At that time being in the Ukraine in the USSR meant the same as being in Florida in the USA.  Russia then, and now had always made it clear that they wanted the Crimea back for military strategic reasons, and the inclusion of the Crimea in Ukraine came with a proviso that the the Russian Black Sea fleet be allowed to continue using it's military bases there.  

Then in 2014 the Russians made a power grab and took Crimea by force in a way that was/is clearly illegal by international law, and they have held it ever since, and don't seem likely to leave any time soon. 

So what part of history makes this situation different from what I have outlined in very broad strokes here?    

Couple of additions:

Crimea was under Rus' control before there were Tatars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tmutarakan

who got in trouble on the account of raiding Russia for slaves.

Crimea tried to split off Ukraine during/after the Soviet breakdown, but Ukraine eventually prohibited this per constitutional amendment, arguably an ex post facto law (Crimea had the right to secession under the Soviet constitution, being a so-called ASSR-level autonomy)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Crimean_sovereignty_referendum

[bobo88 + 58]

On 2/12/2022 at 1:15 PM, bobo88 said:

Biden dispatches three nuclear capable bombers to Britain.

Joe Biden is one tough hombre..

" .  .  .  .  .  The U.S. Air Force deployed four B-52 strategic nuclear bombers to the U.K. beginning on Thursday, escalating an ongoing crisis surrounding a possible Russian invasion of Ukraine, Military magazine reported.

Putin has to respond to this publicly.  Joe is going to start WW lll .  Trying to demean Putin in public limits any opportunity for a negotiated settlement.  Joe is on a Afghanistan redemption crusade at any costs.  He will end up supply Billions to Ukraine for a losing cause and risk escalating the conflict.  Joe doesn't care. 

This dangerous.

 

Biden will do or say anything to not have to talk about U.S. crime wave, inflation, Southern border, Afghanistan withdrawal, failed legislation, his cognitive decline and his LOW poll numbers.

U.S., British, French, German leaders all made the highly publicized trips to each other's Capital plus Moscow and Kiev to show us that NATO is strong and united, they are great leaders in search of peace and how they stand up against Putin.

Meanwhile, Putin is laughing at them (especially Biden) .  The NATO country leaders could give a "f" about Putin taking some eastern territory in a corrupt Ukraine.  

They need Putin's oil and natural gas.

Don't forget Biden gave Putin the "green light" quote , "  .  .  .  minor incursion is acceptable, the we decide what to do"

BIden in his current mental state is dangerous. God Save America.

Any news

 

[notsonice + 1,255]

34 minutes ago, bobo88 said:

Any news

 

here is the latest.... I hear they are working overtime.....

STENCH OF DEATH 

Chilling pics reveal Russia’s mobile crematoriums used to ‘incinerate dead soldiers and hide true scale of Ukraine war

• Olivia Burke

• 16:23, 25 Feb 2022
• Updated: 16:52, 25 Feb 2022

CHILLING photos reveal Russia's fleet of mobile crematoriums used to "incinerate dead soldiers" amid fears they will use them to hide the true scale of the Ukraine war.

The terrifying trucks can reduce bodies to ashes on the roadside, making it even easier for Vladimir Putin to downplay the human cost of the conflict.

5

The mobile crematoriums camouflage in amongst the rest of Russia's artilleryCredit: Russian Ministry of Defence

5

It is feared Russia will use the tanks to hide the true devastation of the warCredit: Russian Ministry of Defence

Shocking footage - originally shared in 2013 - disturbingly shows a circular chamber fitted into the back of the lorry.

Soldiers can then crank up the heat to scorching temperatures, in a bid to avoid mountains of bodies piling up in public view.

Russia have deployed the grim machinery alongside their usual military equipment for a number of years, but fears have now been raised they will become an all too familiar sight in Ukraine.

They are able to camouflage in amongst the fleet of tanks and trucks, while concealing their sinister secret in plain sight.

 

Defence Minister Ben Wallace told the Daily Telegraph: "If I was a soldier and knew that my generals had so little faith in me that they followed me around the battlefield with a mobile crematorium, or I was the mother or father of a son, potentially deployed into a combat zone, and my government thought that the way to cover up losses was a mobile crematorium, I’d be deeply, deeply worried.

"It’s a very chilling side effect of how the Russians view their forces."

Edited February 26, 2022 by notsonice

[bobo88 + 58]

On 2/26/2022 at 1:08 PM, notsonice said:

here is the latest.... I hear they are working overtime.....

STENCH OF DEATH 

Chilling pics reveal Russia’s mobile crematoriums used to ‘incinerate dead soldiers and hide true scale of Ukraine war

• Olivia Burke

• 16:23, 25 Feb 2022
• Updated: 16:52, 25 Feb 2022

CHILLING photos reveal Russia's fleet of mobile crematoriums used to "incinerate dead soldiers" amid fears they will use them to hide the true scale of the Ukraine war.

The terrifying trucks can reduce bodies to ashes on the roadside, making it even easier for Vladimir Putin to downplay the human cost of the conflict.

5

The mobile crematoriums camouflage in amongst the rest of Russia's artilleryCredit: Russian Ministry of Defence

5

It is feared Russia will use the tanks to hide the true devastation of the warCredit: Russian Ministry of Defence

Shocking footage - originally shared in 2013 - disturbingly shows a circular chamber fitted into the back of the lorry.

Soldiers can then crank up the heat to scorching temperatures, in a bid to avoid mountains of bodies piling up in public view.

Russia have deployed the grim machinery alongside their usual military equipment for a number of years, but fears have now been raised they will become an all too familiar sight in Ukraine.

They are able to camouflage in amongst the fleet of tanks and trucks, while concealing their sinister secret in plain sight.

 

Defence Minister Ben Wallace told the Daily Telegraph: "If I was a soldier and knew that my generals had so little faith in me that they followed me around the battlefield with a mobile crematorium, or I was the mother or father of a son, potentially deployed into a combat zone, and my government thought that the way to cover up losses was a mobile crematorium, I’d be deeply, deeply worried.

"It’s a very chilling side effect of how the Russians view their forces."

How morbid.

The longer this goes on the more die on both sides.  

Sick puppy. 

Grow up. This isn't playing one of your video games.  People are dying.  You ain't seen anything yet.  You'll be able to smell the stench living in your parents basement. 

Get out. Get some fresh air.  You've been on this chat late non-stop for at least 10 days.

Edited February 28, 2022 by bobo88

[notsonice + 1,255]

4 minutes ago, bobo88 said:

How morbid.

The longer this goes on the more die on both sides.  

Sick puppy. 

Yep Putin is one sick Puppy, He started it over falsehoods and lies. Hope he enjoys the stench of death, he owns it. 

[bobo88 + 58]

I agree leaders shouldn't take away their citizens freedoms, arrest them for peaceful protesting, putting them in jail and calling their opponents Nazi's.  That's why I condemn Justin Trudeau .

 .  .  .  .  .  .  .  and Putin too 

Putin is a thug. Putin is a killer. Putin needs to be stopped. But at what price ? If it's possible. 

Understand Putin has only used 1/3 of his military buildup on the Ukraine border. You think Ukraine will win when/if Putin unleashes all that military might on Ukraine. Ukraine's resistance is impressive.  But giving 78 year old grandmother's rifles and family's making molatof cocktail bombs in their basement are only going to get more people killed for nothing. 

Talk.  Negotiate. Putin doesn't want Kyiv . Give him something to save face.  Give him a few oblasts in the east (Luhansk, Donetsk), restart the water canal flow he wants for Crimea, guarantee Ukraine won't join NATO. Get creative.  Do it before Putin destroys Ukraine's  infrastructure. I think giving a little is better than 20 to 50 thousand more deaths

Putin is not going to go away quietly.  His ego couldn't bare it. 

This all would have been avoided if Biden were not president. Biden ridiculed Putin before he was sworn in à president, saying "Putin doesn't want me as President, I'm not like my predecessor , he knows I'll go toe-to-toe with him. Biden is an idiot. 

Putin was upset ever since he lost Ukraine over 30 years ago (oil, gas, agriculture, water for Crimea, deep water ports, industrial centers. naval port, etc).  But he never acted until Biden.  A weak Biden that managed a disastrous retreat from Afghanistan.  He realized a new congress will be coming in a year that might be tougher on him. Put in knew it's now or never.  This is what we have to deal with.  

Biden only shut down 80% of the banks.  Putin can still bank.

Biden will not shut down Putin energy exports. It would work, but it would put the EU into an economic depression. Russia supplies about 41% of Europe's energy. 

Biden won't implement a no-fly zone .  Russia won't honor it.  Then you have U.S  vs Russian air war. Then things really escalate.

You sound so stupid (and goolish) cheering for the "stench of death".  Grow up.  You sound like Biden. 

Don't believe everything you hear. You only hear one side. The intelligence agencies have started the talk, "Putin has gone crazy" hoping a military coup takes Putin out.  Hopefully it works.  Just don't count on it.  

Zelenskyy is trying to buy time for reinforcement. It's too late.  Cut a deal.

PS: There is a war going on in Europe. P.utin just put his military on Nuclear Preparedness and Biden goes home to Delaware to nap and prep for the State of the Nation. That's scary. 

 

Notsonice

Putin isn't the only leader to start a war over falsehoods and lies. Ask George Bush about Iraq. 

Ask Hillary about Libya . When she started a war and killed Maummar Quadaffi so Tony Blair and Sarkozy could get Libya's oil.  Then she is responsible for the U.S. envoy getting killed and blamed it on a video. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by bobo88