Biden threatens Putin " If . . . . no longer a Nord Stream 2 . . bring end to it"

[bobo88 + 58]

Ukraine Zelenskyy wants Joe to shut his trap.  He told Biden.

"The Ukrainian president very clearly said to the American president, 'Your policy isn't working, it's the worst of both worlds. First of all, you're not deterring Russia and secondly, you're causing panic with all of this talk and killing the economy.'"

Zelenskyy in late January called on the West not to create panic and said warnings of an imminent invasion were putting Ukraine's economy at risk.

"There are signals even from respected leaders of states, they just say that tomorrow there will be war. This is panic — how much does it cost for our state?" he said during a press conference in Kyiv.

The "destabilization of the situation inside the country" was the biggest threat to Ukraine, he said.

Macron agrees 

Scholz agrees 

The best strategy to deescalate the situation is to make Joe shut up.

Blinken has accepted an invitation to meet with his Russian counterpart next week. Don't tell Joe.  He'll never know.

Meanwhile Putin has decided to have their yearly Nuclear Preparedness Drills this week !  Putin will personally review.  This year it is the Black Sea.  

Nice going Joe.  You turned a separatist dispute in Ukraine's Donbas (2 obasts)  to where two super powers are flexing their Nuclear Muscle. 

What is next Joe ? Are you going to send a half dozen Virgina Class Nuclear attack subs into the Black Sea to show Russia you really want a diplomatic solution.

Knucklehead.

Biden is dangerous.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by bobo88

[Michael Sanches + 187]

Question:

Is it expensive for Putin to assemble and maintain his forces at the border? After all, there is a cost even if those units were back on their bases.

1. Cheap (10-20% above normal costs) Putin could be doing this to mess with the minds of Ukraine and the West.

2. Expensive (50% or more above normal costs) Putin will definitely do something.

3. A third possibility is that Putin simply consider this a wargame exercise to train his troops. In this case the cost doesn't matter much. 

[surrept33 + 609]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-massed-190-000-personnel-130113701.html

VIENNA (Reuters) - Russia's build-up of military personnel threatening Ukraine probably totals up to 190,000, the U.S. ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said in a statement to an OSCE meeting on the Ukraine crisis on Friday.

"We assess that Russia probably has massed between 169,000-190,000 personnel in and near Ukraine as compared with about 100,000 on January 30," Michael Carpenter told the meeting, which Russia did not attend.

"This is the most significant military mobilization in Europe since the Second World War."

(Reporting by Francois Murphy; Editing by Jon Boyle)

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:37 AM, notsonice said:

keep babbling bullshit. The US has supplied recently thousands of Javelin Anti tank missiles to Ukraine. Did you miss the planes landing in the Ukraine???? training is going on right now. Take a few minutes to check into how lethal they are.......95 percent rate of success in wiping out targets..... Mobile 2 man crews who can shoot and move within seconds.......Ouch. How much do those Russian tanks cost???? Putin can kiss Joes ass..... Putins tanks , armored vehicles etc will be decimated if they attack. Putin was in the drivers seat ....he no longer is. 2022 is not 2014. Now Nordstream 2 is getting the axe.......Putin in the drivers seat????? Do you know what happens to a tank when it gets hit by a Javelin...turns it into a chicken roaster in seconds. 

It depends on the Russian Infantry. If the Russian infantry can suppress the Javelin teams, they will be ineffective. The Israeli infantry is able to suppress the Arab Sagger teams and the Israeli tanks rule the field. The one time they didn't (Chinese Farm), the Israeli tanks were slaughtered.

Remember, tanks don't charge against the front against well trained troops. They punch a whole in the line with overwhelming force and destroy the rear area, Cooks and Generals make lousy anti tank gunners. The Javelin teams will be mostly fighting air power, artillery, and infantry.

Hopefully, the Russians WILL use their tanks in mass charges AND the Ukrainians will have high morale.

[surrept33 + 609]

19 minutes ago, Michael Sanches said:

Question:

Is it expensive for Putin to assemble and maintain his forces at the border? After all, there is a cost even if those units were back on their bases.

1. Cheap (10-20% above normal costs) Putin could be doing this to mess with the minds of Ukraine and the West.

2. Expensive (50% or more above normal costs) Putin will definitely do something.

3. A third possibility is that Putin simply consider this a wargame exercise to train his troops. In this case the cost doesn't matter much. 

I assume it's expensive, but gazprom will more than make up in profits due to increased oil/gas prices as investors fret about potential conflict. 

[Starschy + 211]

4 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

Question:

Is it expensive for Putin to assemble and maintain his forces at the border? After all, there is a cost even if those units were back on their bases.

1. Cheap (10-20% above normal costs) Putin could be doing this to mess with the minds of Ukraine and the West.

2. Expensive (50% or more above normal costs) Putin will definitely do something.

3. A third possibility is that Putin simply consider this a wargame exercise to train his troops. In this case the cost doesn't matter much. 

They are paid anyway. It doesn‘t make a difference if they stayed in lets say Tumen, Perm etc or in Woronesch or Belgorod.

[bobo88 + 58]

5 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

Question:

Is it expensive for Putin to assemble and maintain his forces at the border? After all, there is a cost even if those units were back on their bases.

1. Cheap (10-20% above normal costs) Putin could be doing this to mess with the minds of Ukraine and the West.

2. Expensive (50% or more above normal costs) Putin will definitely do something.

3. A third possibility is that Putin simply consider this a wargame exercise to train his troops. In this case the cost doesn't matter much. 

Putin shows like he is about to attack.  Then Ukraine and U.S. shows their hand, shows their defensive posture and troop movements.

Russia takes it all in. 

Putin in toying with Joe.  What a sap. 

Putin demands U.S. has to pull back from eastern NATO countries (ie Poland, Romania, Balkans).

U.S (NATO) will not submit.

So does one back down ? 

No 

So I believe Putin goes in.  

Russia is emboldened as a result of becoming flush with Oil/Natural Gas revenue.

How far ?

Edited February 18, 2022 by bobo88

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

6 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

Question:

Is it expensive for Putin to assemble and maintain his forces at the border? After all, there is a cost even if those units were back on their bases.

1. Cheap (10-20% above normal costs) Putin could be doing this to mess with the minds of Ukraine and the West.

2. Expensive (50% or more above normal costs) Putin will definitely do something.

3. A third possibility is that Putin simply consider this a wargame exercise to train his troops. In this case the cost doesn't matter much. 

You are seeing only part of the story. Ukraine has assembled even more troops at the border to LDNR, so however expensive the build-up is for Putin, it is more expensive for Ukraine.

This is not the first time any of this happens, but the first time anybody in the West has paid any real attention to it.

Ukraine is also hemorrhaging money from foreign investments taking flight on the news of an upcoming invasion. They had to refinance at some preposterous rate like 26% recently (in their own currency, the UAH) Russia is barely affected by this, short of the stock market being down by some 10%-15%

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

38 minutes ago, bobo88 said:

Putin shows like he is about to attack.  Then Ukraine and U.S. shows their hand, shows their defensive posture and troop movements.

Russia takes it all in. 

Putin in toying with Joe.  What a sap. 

Putin demands U.S. has to pull back from eastern NATO countries (ie Poland, Romania, Balkans).

U.S (NATO) will not submit.

So does one back down ? 

No 

So I believe Putin goes in.  

Russia is emboldened as a result of becoming flush with Oil/Natural Gas revenue.

How far ?

None of this makes any sense. Why would Putin attack Ukraine if his bone is with NATO or US? Obviously, the Ukraine decides nothing much. Has he voiced any demands for Ukraine? So, he'll just attack for attacking sake?

It is a lot more likely that Ukraine got sold on yet another project of regaining control over Donbass by force. They've got 2x more troops assembled at the border to LDNR right now than what Russia's got. Thus, Putin is likely showing a readiness to protect LDNR, that's all. Other than this, there is absolutely no obvious incentive to get in a war with Ukraine right now.

The rich oil and gas profits haven't lasted a year, after a long period of near-loss. Also note that the pretext of an impeding bogus Russian invasion is what allowed US/UK to saturate Ukraine with armaments already. Exactly the scenario Putin's demands outlined as a potential treat. Well, not so potential anymore, and it is all good because Russia is officially the aggressor there?

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, Starschy said:

They are paid anyway. It doesn‘t make a difference if they stayed in lets say Tumen, Perm etc or in Woronesch or Belgorod.

This is not exactly so. It is cheaper to keep the troops at their permanent base facilities, and there are also the transport costs. All of which is irrelevant, because Ukraine assembled some 280 thousand troops on the border to LDNR, so waiting around costs them even more than it does Russia.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

6 hours ago, surrept33 said:

I assume it's expensive, but gazprom will more than make up in profits due to increased oil/gas prices as investors fret about potential conflict. 

Gazprom pays a lot more to the Russian state in taxes, exploration and export fees etc. than it does in dividends. Thus, you could say that the Russian state actually has a long term interest in Gazprom moving a higher volume of gas, whereas the private shareholders are the ones interested in higher margins.

[surrept33 + 609]

44 minutes ago, bobo88 said:

Putin shows like he is about to attack.  Then Ukraine and U.S. shows their hand, shows their defensive posture and troop movements.

Russia takes it all in. 

Putin in toying with Joe.  What a sap. 

Putin demands U.S. has to pull back from eastern NATO countries (ie Poland, Romania, Balkans).

U.S (NATO) will not submit.

So does one back down ? 

No 

So I believe Putin goes in.  

Russia is emboldened as a result of becoming flush with Oil/Natural Gas revenue.

How far ?

Geopolitics is like poker. you use your best hand or pull a bluff.

The US is not bluffing. It's strategy is to out Putins' search for a pretext for invasion, one that the rest of Europe and world will see as Russia as the aggressor, in which case there would be maximal costs associated with it. So far, that's been working. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

6 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

It depends on the Russian Infantry. If the Russian infantry can suppress the Javelin teams, they will be ineffective. The Israeli infantry is able to suppress the Arab Sagger teams and the Israeli tanks rule the field. The one time they didn't (Chinese Farm), the Israeli tanks were slaughtered.

Remember, tanks don't charge against the front against well trained troops. They punch a whole in the line with overwhelming force and destroy the rear area, Cooks and Generals make lousy anti tank gunners. The Javelin teams will be mostly fighting air power, artillery, and infantry.

Hopefully, the Russians WILL use their tanks in mass charges AND the Ukrainians will have high morale.

The Russians are most likely to use massive strikes by MLRS artillery. Not survivable not only by Javelin-wielding infantry, but even by massed armor formations. Basically, nothing in a given area lives.

The Israeli tanks also got the floor mopped with in 2006 Lebanon war. You're simply not going to find any of this in any English-language accounts yet, but they should not have engaged in urban warfare. Any tanks don't do too well in an urban environment.

The Javelins are most easily defeated by a smoke screen, which tanks can do for a pretty long time by simply spraying some diesel fuel into the exhaust pipe.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

Geopolitics is like poker. you use your best hand or pull a bluff.

The US is not bluffing. It's strategy is to out Putins' search for a pretext for invasion, one that the rest of Europe and world will see as Russia as the aggressor, in which case there would be maximal costs associated with it. So far, that's been working. 

Yes, US is totally ready to fight Putin to the last Ukrainian!

Again, Putin is not at all looking for any invasion pretext. Merely showing the readiness to protect LDNR against the Ukrainian invasion. The plan is obviously to make Russia look like an unprovoked aggressor anyway.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

None of this makes any sense. Why would Putin attack Ukraine if his bone is with NATO or US? Obviously, the Ukraine decides nothing much. Has he voiced any demands for Ukraine? So, he'll just attack for attacking sake?

It is a lot more likely that Ukraine got sold on yet another project of regaining control over Donbass by force. They've got 2x more troops assembled at the border to LDNR right now than what Russia's got. Thus, Putin is likely showing a readiness to protect LDNR, that's all. Other than this, there is absolutely no obvious incentive to get in a war with Ukraine right now.

The rich oil and gas profits haven't lasted a year, after a long period of near-loss. Also note that the pretext of an impeding bogus Russian invasion is what allowed US/UK to saturate Ukraine with armaments already. Exactly the scenario Putin's demands outlined as a potential treat. Well, not so potential anymore, and it is all good because Russia is officially the aggressor there?

He already attacked Ukraine without provocation. You seem to be forgetting Crimea.

[nsdp + 449]

41 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The Russians are most likely to use massive strikes by MLRS artillery. Not survivable not only by Javelin-wielding infantry, but even by massed armor formations. Basically, nothing in a given area lives.

The Israeli tanks also got the floor mopped with in 2006 Lebanon war. You're simply not going to find any of this in any English-language accounts yet, but they should not have engaged in urban warfare. Any tanks don't do too well in an urban environment.

The Javelins are most easily defeated by a smoke screen, which tanks can do for a pretty long time by simply spraying some diesel fuel into the exhaust pipe.

The key will be the Russian infantry and how they can handle HESH rounds hitting them every 15 seconds. You have  chinks in body armor  and these little needles go though and maim or kill any one nearby.  Every Ukranian infantry man  has the attachment on his rifle.  Cluster bombs are good at killing infantry that has dug in or gone to ground because it falls like rain on them  My next door neighbor got hit by a clusterbomb that failed to detonate and it was converted into  IED.   One thing you can damn well bet is the Ukranian soldiers will get Nato level medical care.

Once the infantry is toast and Russian supply convoys are funeral pyres, tanks don't make any difference.  The crunches  will take care of them. This will look like Lam Son 719 (I was there) where all the long range artillery , Cobra gunships ,  ARC Light strikes and tactical airstrikes didn't do ARVN any good. A full squadron of F-35's left today.   Just what makes you think Russia can survive a full fledged NATO counter attack when we re already deployed and at DEFCON  3.

[nsdp + 449]

1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Yes, US is totally ready to fight Putin to the last Ukrainian!

Again, Putin is not at all looking for any invasion pretext. Merely showing the readiness to protect LDNR against the Ukrainian invasion. The plan is obviously to make Russia look like an unprovoked aggressor anyway.

 You are full of horse s*** and would do Josef Goebbels proud. It doesn't require 100,000 troops on the border to defend it.  Your comment is a flat out lie just like Poland attacked Germany .

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by nsdp
left out word

[nsdp + 449]

1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The Russians are most likely to use massive strikes by MLRS artillery. Not survivable not only by Javelin-wielding infantry, but even by massed armor formations. Basically, nothing in a given area lives.

The Israeli tanks also got the floor mopped with in 2006 Lebanon war. You're simply not going to find any of this in any English-language accounts yet, but they should not have engaged in urban warfare. Any tanks don't do too well in an urban environment.

The Javelins are most easily defeated by a smoke screen, which tanks can do for a pretty long time by simply spraying some diesel fuel into the exhaust pipe.

Oh really ,  smoke screen doesn't mask the right wavelengths of infrared light.

[nsdp + 449]

15 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Just one airstrip suitable for bombers and large transport planes. Which is less than what Russia got in Chukotka right next to Alaska and elsewhere much closer than Yamal.

Tu-160s and Tu-95s fire missiles with 5500km standoff range.

OK stupid that still leaves them falling 3600 km short if the bomber crews can even make the north shore of Alaska. Can you do basic arithmetic?  Also Anchorage is the major freight hub and if it can handle theAN225 which makes the others a piece of cake.  Eielson AFB is still active  and has F-35 and F-16  squadrons based there.   Anchorage is also  home to Naval Reserve P-8's and P-3's and F/A/18.   Fort Richardson has  two batteries of Patriots add one battery of THAAD.  At 590mph  the TU-160 is a cripple. Give the bomber crew their ceremonial last cup of Saki.

[nsdp + 449]

13 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

What does RISC vs CISC have to do with security?

Incidentally, is 64-bit Intel (really AMD) RISC, and so is the latest Apple (is an ARM)

If you shoot for an inherently secure machines, you need

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagged_architecture

Out of extant architectures, only the Russian Elbrus supports this

Well let me dispell your ignorance.   HACKERS can play with CISC because that is what Apple and MS use. RISC is a whole separate coding system not compatible with IEEE 764 and require  cpus that are not IEEE764 enabled.   99.9% of computer cowboys are like you. they don't know it exists or don't know how to code it.  You go to Lawrence Berkeley National Lab to learn how to code.

Edited February 18, 2022 by nsdp
bad typing

[bobo88 + 58]

5 hours ago, surrept33 said:

Geopolitics is like poker. you use your best hand or pull a bluff.

The US is not bluffing. It's strategy is to out Putins' search for a look? for invasion, one that the rest of Europe and world will see as Russia as the aggressor, in which case there would be maximal costs associated with it. So far, that's been working. 

It will not stop Putin

Joint Chiefs General Milley said that Russia could take Kiev in 72 hours. Putin doesn't want Kiev. 

Why does U.S. care.  Ukraine is not an ally of U.S. It is a business partner of Huunter Biden.

Joe has so much to fix back home . There are still U.S. citizens he left behind in Afghanistan after his embarrassing retreat.  Why not threaten them. Instead he is sending the Taliban $380 million in humanatarian aid.  That will end up in the band of the Taliban. Why ? Because he maybe wants U.S. companies to get allowed to bid on the Lithium and the Rare Earth mineral contracts ? 

Biden is not bluffing. He will put sanctions on Russia . Putin doesn't care.  

Macron and Schools might get a diplomatic solution.  Only if they can get Biden to shut up. Let Blinken be U.S. face. Not Joe or Kamala.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by bobo88

[bobo88 + 58]

3 hours ago, nsdp said:

Well let me dispell your ignorance.   HACKERS can play with CISC because that is what Apple and MS use. RISC is a whole separate coding system not compatible with IEEE 764 and require  cpus that are not IEEE764 enabled.   99.9% of computer cowboys are like you. they don't know it exists or don't know how to code it.  You go to Lawrence Berkeley National Lab to learn how to code.

Wow.  Im very impressed with your technical knowledge.

Your on the wrong board.

[surrept33 + 609]

44 minutes ago, bobo88 said:

It will not stop Putin

Joint Chiefs General Milley said that Russia could take Kiev in 72 hours. Putin doesn't want Kiev. 

Why does U.S. care.  Ukraine is not an ally of U.S

 

Yes. They can't stop Russia from invading if Putin is crazy enough to do it. But the current strategy, which is to shine transparency on Putin, ruins Russia's pretext and paints them as a pariah state, which may have political and economical consequences in the years to come. This is a dictatorship invading and possibly overthrowing a democratically elected government of 40 million people.

[bobo88 + 58]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:53 PM, surrept33 said:

Yes. They can't stop Russia from invading if Putin is crazy enough to do it. But the current strategy, which is to shine transparency on Putin, ruins Russia's pretext and paints them as a pariah state, which may have political and economical consequences in the years to come. This is a dictatorship invading and possibly overthrowing a democratically elected government of 40 million people.

Putin crazy ? LOL

Putin isn't going to take the whole country.  He doesn't want Kiev. 

Putin wants the few ethnic Russian oblasts in the east that were made part of Ukraine in 1922.  EU NATO members could care less.

Biden loves the distraction.  Biden risks WW lll over a place nobody cares about except for Hunter Biden.  

 

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

12 hours ago, nsdp said:

The key will be the Russian infantry and how they can handle HESH rounds hitting them every 15 seconds. You have  chinks in body armor  and these little needles go though and maim or kill any one nearby.  Every Ukranian infantry man  has the attachment on his rifle.  Cluster bombs are good at killing infantry that has dug in or gone to ground because it falls like rain on them  My next door neighbor got hit by a clusterbomb that failed to detonate and it was converted into  IED.   One thing you can damn well bet is the Ukranian soldiers will get Nato level medical care.

Once the infantry is toast and Russian supply convoys are funeral pyres, tanks don't make any difference.  The crunches  will take care of them. This will look like Lam Son 719 (I was there) where all the long range artillery , Cobra gunships ,  ARC Light strikes and tactical airstrikes didn't do ARVN any good. A full squadron of F-35's left today.   Just what makes you think Russia can survive a full fledged NATO counter attack when we re already deployed and at DEFCON  3.

Most armour has spall protection/lining and heavy armour like tanks have ERA on the outside that nullifies HESH and even ATGMs to some extent. Ukraine soldiers getting medical care will depend on whether the medical supply imports will be targeted or not. On the other hand, all major countries like India, China, Russia, France have advanced indigenous pharma and healthcare industries and can provide excellent medical care during wartime to their soldiers and civilians. Ukraine's import dependency for medical supplies will be a major problem in providing consistent healthcare during war.

The infantry will not simply barge in without decimating enemy posts and positions first as that will be a suicidal move. In the worst case scenario, Russia will move through rural areas and forest to cut off and surround Ukrainian positions. None of the EU NATO members will be able to survive any war with Russia. At best, they can commit collective suicide and destroy Russia in the process so that USA benefits. In case of USA involvement along with the bunch of EU countries, there is likely to be Chinese involvement in response which will tip the scales back.