frankfurter + 562 ff February 16, 2022 10 hours ago, Rob Plant said: What I will agree with you on is that very few Americans ever venture out of America and few even hold a passport to do so and of those only a percentage ever use it! This I think is why many Americans have a distorted view of the world and other countries, as all they have to make their own judgement is MSM which is utter crap. Well travelled people have a much better / rounded view of other cultures and other countries and changes their perception accordingly. This is probably why US foreign policy is so bad and has been for decades. and so proven by this 'discussion' group, evidently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobo88 + 58 BL February 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, nsdp said: No Joe just put the finishing touches on one of the Five Eyes Defense plans. Is Put=Put ready for the 78 B-2's that come from Alaska. Or did he forget to cover his ass. Each B-52 has 16 missiles that don't require entry into Russian airspace. Yamal will look like Kuwait in 1991. Russia have 1458SAM -400's launch ready for the northern from attack. We still have 20 B-2's and 60 plus B-1's with 20 missiles to clean up anything missed. LOL Sure. I'm stocking the bomb shelter in my backyard that my Great Grandfather built. LOL Plenty of food and a case of single malt scotch. nsdp thanks for the heads up. Edited February 16, 2022 by bobo88 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nsdp + 449 eh February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, bobo88 said: LOL Sure. I'm stocking the bomb shelter in my backyard that my Great Grandfather built. LOL Plenty of food and a case of single malt scotch. nsdp thanks for the heads up. I like it when you respond after you've been smoking weed. Russia has two regiments at Nova Zymeyla on duty. Even with reloads you won't stop 10% of what the B-52's launch from the north. The two battalions would be dead meat in Belo RUSSIA with just 4 B-52 to open the holes/ also the new missiles that the B-52 has fly too low for the S-400 to return to low level and acquire. . India A F tests show 0 ability to find missles in clutter below 50 meters and slow to reload. .Then you have the cleanup crews with B-2 and B-1B. Paont bullseqys on your loaucheers make them easier But really this is the story. Ukraine crisis: Nato considering new battlegroups in eastern Europe after ‘no sign’ of Russian de-escalation – 8000 of the Jumpin Junkies left today. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobo88 + 58 BL February 17, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, nsdp said: No Joe just put the finishing touches on one of the Five Eyes Defense plans. Is Put=Put ready for the 78 B-2's that come from Alaska. Or did he forget to cover his ass. Each B-52 has 16 missiles that don't require entry into Russian airspace. Yamal will look like Kuwait in 1991. Russia have 1458SAM -400's launch ready for the northern from attack. We still have 20 B-2's and 60 plus B-1's with 20 missiles to clean up anything missed. Why Does Biden talk up war. Not diplomacy. This is some testimony from todays House hearing: The United States is being "aggressively alarmist" about the tension between Russia and Ukraine and has "shoved aside diplomacy" in favor of talking of war, Ric Grenell, former acting director of national intelligence, said in testimony during a virtual hearing by the House Oversight and Reform Subcommittee on National Security on Wednesday. "We are rejecting the tools that the United States has in terms of sanctions," Grenell, who told the lawmakers in a summation of his written testimony. But Grenell said he can't think of something "more callous than to wait for bloodshed to be put on the TV screens before we make a move on diplomacy and Nord Stream 2. He added that the Germans "undermined us when it comes to Nord Stream 2." Grenell also called it "shameful" for Washington to be raced toward military options rather than using diplomatic tools that would cripple Putin and deny him the money he needs to go on the offensive, and not to discuss the pipeline. "It is typical of Washington and all of the pundits that race to talk about war instead of utilizing diplomacy, sanctions, and the tools of the U.S. government," said Grenell. "They are incredibly important, and yet official Washington is talking about troops, and build-up, and literally pushing aside the diplomatic response. I find it to be shameful." The aggressive talk is not based on verified intelligence, he added. "Lastly, let me just say that official Washington is also wrong when it comes to NATO unity," said Grenell. "The Germans are undermining NATO. Many NATO members are not paying their fair share and obligations." He also said he agrees with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelinskyy's comments that U.S. policy is not deterring Putin and that it is "ruining our ally Ukraine's economy." Biden is reckless. Is his aggressive behavior a result of his mental state. More like his corn pop stories or calling a college girl a " lying fog faced pony soldier" during the campaign. More of his agry outbursts during press conferences. This guy is dangerous. France's Macron and Germany's Scholz are talking to Putin on thier on. Biden's behavior is strange . What President would announce he was flying Nuclear capable bombers to the region. Zelenskyy believes Biden's war mongering has killed his economy and blown any chance for diplomatic solution. NATO is far from united. NATO no longer faces to the west as Grennrll stated Hopefully Macron or Scholz can reason with Putin before crazy Joe gets us in WWIII. Edited February 17, 2022 by bobo88 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG February 17, 2022 Bobo is a weird character. He wonders about increased rhetoric after 100,000 troops appear on the border. He blames Biden for Russian troops? Did you run out of potatoes for your vodka and go to using straight 100% BS? Lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 609 st February 17, 2022 3 hours ago, bobo88 said: Why Does Biden talk up war. Not diplomacy. This is some testimony from todays House hearing: The United States is being "aggressively alarmist" about the tension between Russia and Ukraine and has "shoved aside diplomacy" in favor of talking of war, Ric Grenell, former acting director of national intelligence, said in testimony during a virtual hearing by the House Oversight and Reform Subcommittee on National Security on Wednesday. Biden has made it immensely clear that America isn't going to get into a shooting war over Ukraine, so not sure what Grenell is getting that from. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/us/biden-ukraine.html Quote “American citizens should leave, should leave now,” Mr. Biden said in an interview with NBC’s Lester Holt that aired on Thursday evening, adding that there was no scenario that could prompt him to send troops to rescue Americans. “We’re dealing with one of the largest armies in the world. This is a very different situation, and things could go crazy quickly.” “That’s a world war when Americans and Russia start shooting at one another,” Mr. Biden added. “We’re in a very different world than we’ve ever been in.” .... Mr. Biden had previously made clear that he had no intention of sending American troops to defend Ukraine, stating pointedly in early December that the military option was “not on the table,” and this week, he warned Americans that “it would be wise” to leave the country. But Jen Psaki, the White House press secretary, avoided directly answering a question Wednesday on whether the United States would assist Americans “stranded” after an invasion. It's important that Biden show strength for two reasons: 1. to support NATO. Without NATO and the support of the US military, It's certainly clear that Putin can have free reign in whatever he wants in eastern and/or central Europe 2. because Xi is watching how much the US is willing to support our allies. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kshithij Sharma + 78 February 17, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 7:56 PM, surrept33 said: Who said anything about the US directly being involved in a fight? That's the opposite of what I said. We would arm the Ukrainians however. Why do you think Russia won't flatten Ukraine and destroy any possible centres of resistance before invading? Moreover, you are forgetting that Russia can also arm Venezuela, Mexico, Brazil and cause problems in USA backyard. This is not to mention funding of Black movement, homosexuals and other groups within USA itself. Russian economy is very sound with surplus exports and a huge reserves of foreign exchange. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starschy + 211 PM February 17, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, nsdp said: That is on the Nipper net which has NO Connections outside the US and none to the US internet Nothing critical operates on MS; they use a language you don't even know the existence of. . Boy are you stupid. The Colonial pipeline closed for a Week Microsoft. Solarwinds Hacks was undetected for Months multiple US Government Agencies Products from Microsoft over 30000 Workstations involved. Edited February 17, 2022 by Starschy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff February 17, 2022 Has the Feb 16 invasion been rescheduled? by whom? when? The era of US power is over, we are at the beginning of the end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM February 17, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 9:35 PM, Andrei Moutchkine said: I will probably move back to Russia soon. Main thing, I don't live in US anymore. Thank God. On 2/16/2022 at 12:41 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said: They could've bought something like 60 domestic anti-tank weapons for the price of one Javelin. If I had to pick being in a Russian tank or Holding a Javelin launcher at 2000 meters apart. I would take the Javelin. Can the guy in the tank see the guy holding the Javelin? The guy holding the Javelin launcher can definitely see the tank 24/7. Just remember we can crank out a hell of alot more missiles in a short period of time and get them to any front line in the Ukraine...how long to make a tank???? The US will donate as many Javelin missiles as needed to wipe out every tank or armored vehicle that crosses into the Ukraine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, notsonice said: If I had to pick being in a Russian tank or Holding a Javelin launcher at 2000 meters apart. I would take the Javelin. Can the guy in the tank see the guy holding the Javelin? The guy holding the Javelin launcher can definitely see the tank 24/7. Just remember we can crank out a hell of alot more missiles in a short period of time and get them to any front line in the Ukraine...how long to make a tank???? The US will donate as many Javelin missiles as needed to wipe out every tank or armored vehicle that crosses into the Ukraine. This argument seems to hold for just about any modern infantry anti-tank weapon, including those Ukraine makes domestically. Yet, there are still tanks being made, including in the US itself. I wonder why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP February 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: I wonder why? Genuinely I do wonder why? The tank has had its day many years ago, if not decades. A once fearsome adversary on the battlefield, now an easy target waiting to be destroyed from miles away by an unseen enemy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Genuinely I do wonder why? The tank has had its day many years ago, if not decades. A once fearsome adversary on the battlefield, now an easy target waiting to be destroyed from miles away by an unseen enemy. Recent Russian tanks have not too bad a chance to defend against the Javelins. Any top attack munition could only ever hope for a "soft kill" against the Armata (as well as any other vehicle with an "unpopulated" robot turret) Actually, I consider the old TOW to be more dangerous, just because it is larger and carries a larger payload. Edited February 17, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 6 hours ago, surrept33 said: Biden has made it immensely clear that America isn't going to get into a shooting war over Ukraine, so not sure what Grenell is getting that from. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/us/biden-ukraine.html It's important that Biden show strength for two reasons: 1. to support NATO. Without NATO and the support of the US military, It's certainly clear that Putin can have free reign in whatever he wants in eastern and/or central Europe 2. because Xi is watching how much the US is willing to support our allies. NATO is a solution looking for a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP February 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Recent Russian tanks have not too bad a chance to defend against the Javelins. Any top attack munition could only ever hope for a "soft kill" against the Armata (as well as any other vehicle with an "unpopulated" robot turret) Actually, I consider the old TOW to be more dangerous, just because it is larger and carries a larger payload. I disagree, tanks have had their day and are sitting ducks. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/can-nato’s-javelin-missile-wipeout-russia’s-tanks-197325 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: I disagree, tanks have had their day and are sitting ducks. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/can-nato’s-javelin-missile-wipeout-russia’s-tanks-197325 This, for some reason, assumes the tank has no ERA on top. Which all the Russian/Ukrainian tanks do since forever. In this case, Javelin has no better chances than any other RPG. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP February 17, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: This, for some reason, assumes the tank has no ERA on top. Which all the Russian/Ukrainian tanks do since forever. In this case, Javelin has no better chances than any other RPG. You obviously didnt read the article! "One common defense which sometimes does reinforce top armor is explosive-reactive armor (ERA), a layer of explosive bricks covering a tank intended to prematurely detonate the shaped charges used by missiles. However, the Javelin has a tandem charge warhead designed to defeat ERA using a ‘precursor’ charge at the front of the warhead to take out the local ERA brick, blasting open a gap through which the main warhead can hit the tank’s conventional armor." I wouldnt fancy being in that Russian tank much! Might get a bit hot! Edited February 17, 2022 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Rob Plant said: You obviously didnt read the article! "One common defense which sometimes does reinforce top armor is explosive-reactive armor (ERA), a layer of explosive bricks covering a tank intended to prematurely detonate the shaped charges used by missiles. However, the Javelin has a tandem charge warhead designed to defeat ERA using a ‘precursor’ charge at the front of the warhead to take out the local ERA brick, blasting open a gap through which the main warhead can hit the tank’s conventional armor." There are also "tandem ERA" packages which purport to defeat the tandem charges, Something your article duly notes later on, too. All I have been saying that there is no clear benefit to the top attack anymore. A tandem charge RPG is obviously still a very dangerous thing from any direction, but it depends. The bigger, the better though, hence my advocacy for the TOW (or Russian Cornet) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: There are also "tandem ERA" packages which purport to defeat the tandem charges, Something your article duly notes later on, too. All I have been saying that there is no clear benefit to the top attack anymore. A tandem charge RPG is obviously still a very dangerous thing from any direction, but it depends. The bigger, the better though, hence my advocacy for the TOW (or Russian Cornet) Who would you rather be, the soldier firing the javelin from 2K away unseen, or the soldier sat in the tank in open sight waiting to see if the ERA bricks worked or not? Hmmm tricky one that isnt it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Who would you rather be, the soldier firing the javelin from 2K away unseen, or the soldier sat in the tank in open sight waiting to see if the ERA bricks worked or not? Hmmm tricky one that isnt it! I would rather be in the tank, hands down! If the bricks do work, the other soldier is toast. If I am aware I am in danger of being targeted by the like of Javelin ahead of time, I will lay a smoke screen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP February 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: I would rather be in the tank, hands down! If the bricks do work, the other soldier is toast. If I am aware I am in danger of being targeted by the like of Javelin ahead of time, I will lay a smoke screen. Bwahahahaha "if the bricks work" Good luck! As for your smokescreen how do you see a soldier from 2KM away through your smokescreen especially when you have already had several javelin's hit your tank? Your tank woul;d be a total wreck on fire by then. I rather think youre clutching at straws. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Bwahahahaha "if the bricks work" Good luck! As for your smokescreen how do you see a soldier from 2KM away through your smokescreen especially when you have already had several javelin's hit your tank? Your tank woul;d be a total wreck on fire by then. I rather think youre clutching at straws. Tanks are rarely working alone, but in large groups. Foot soldiers can carry very few Javelins. Smokescreen is very easy to do in a tank. They simply spray some fuel into the exhaust pipe. They CAN see out of it themselves somewhat. Tanks have magnified optics. Panoramic sights, even, of late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobo88 + 58 BL February 17, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, surrept33 said: Biden has made it immensely clear that America isn't going to get into a shooting war over Ukraine, so not sure what Grenell is getting that from. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/us/biden-ukraine.html It's important that Biden show strength for two reasons: 1. to support NATO. Without NATO and the support of the US military, It's certainly clear that Putin can have free reign in whatever he wants in eastern and/or central Europe 2. because Xi is watching how much the US is willing to support our allies. Surr Show strength. However, you don't send 4 Nuclear Bombers to Britain. The old koot is crazy. This isn't Biden showing strength by taking on Cornpop with a chain. This isn't Biden taking on a college girl during the campaign calling her, " a lying dog face pony soldier" This is Joe daring Putin raising the anti by threatening Putin's Russia with Nuclear War ! BIDEN IS DANGEROUS. BIDEN IS CRAZY. Biden thinks it's 1962 with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Biden has dilusions of grandeur .What is really disturbing is Milley and Austin say nothing. Have to replace those two hacks also. Biden is turning a regional dispute of a few oblasts of ethnic Russians Putin believes are part of Russia. Biden is turning this conflict into WW lol for his own personal political bailout. France and Germany are trying to diffuse. Biden knows this. NATO (U.S. , France , Germany agreed "a minor incursion was acceptable" until Biden screwed up and stated the plan on National TV. So now he has to act tough and hope voters forget about yet another of his non-stop bloopers. Now he is sending Kamala back to Europe this weekend. That will surely help. ( NOT ! ) Edited February 17, 2022 by bobo88 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Foot soldiers can carry very few Javelins. Really? This guy is carrying 2 by himself! Andrei I think we will agree to disagree on this subject! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 17, 2022 40 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Really? This guy is carrying 2 by himself! Andrei I think we will agree to disagree on this subject! This is hardly standard procedure. Team of at least two soldiers per one Javelin is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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