U.S. Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian Propaganda

[Boat + 1,323]

2 hours ago, SUZNV said:

Censorship will eventually split society in 2 extremes. One extreme confused and believed in mainstream 100% and the other extreme believed anything non mainstream, even conspiracy theory. There is no logical argument only fear and hate which make people in the middle confused, especially the youngsters or emotional people  and these are the most vulnerable to fear and hate. Freedom of speech and debates is the only way to educate the voters. World history proves that mainstream always in the dictatorship side in the "for the greater good" theme.

You can turn a good person into hateful easily but will be very hard to reverse him back, because he would have a strong excuse to justify his hate over logic/moral standard. That is how Hitler "persuaded" one of the most engineer society to genocide and wars, how Communism won the civil war in China, even after Kuomintang beat Japan in WW2 (in Sino culture, your regime will have a tremendous legitimacy once you kick foreign out or increase the conquered land or unit the country). 

The essence of the golden rule is fairness. My goal is to fight unfairness wherever it may lie. If you don’t expect anything extra it should not be that hard. I fight those who make fairness harder. That brings us to commonsense. It makes sense to be fair. Better stability, more trust, better partners. I do not believe in religion or god but have better morals and look for the same in return. It’s not hard to look through all the labels and bs to find greed as a base instinct. Slogans and lies with few incremental improvements are US politics. Buy hey, it’s always been like that, nothing new. I still believe tech and more commonsense messaging are powerful weapons for a better future. 
 

[Boat + 1,323]

Sunz, one last thing. I don’t expect our leaders or world leaders to be competent. I don’t expect them to articulate a smart, fair, competent plan. There is no such thing as informed masses. Most people can’t read a simple chart and relate how it tracks. What most large groups of people are good at is reacting. Large scale emotion by millions will bring attention and sometimes change. 
There is to much at stake for one party to allow the other to censor. You don’t like Facebook, build another Facebook. You don’t like zero hedge, build a huff post. Reddit is becoming that. Each group guards what they believe by selected members. But there are many different groups on different issues so sometimes the two party system doesn't matter. 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

1 hour ago, Boat said:

The essence of the golden rule is fairness. My goal is to fight unfairness wherever it may lie. If you don’t expect anything extra it should not be that hard. I fight those who make fairness harder. That brings us to commonsense. It makes sense to be fair. Better stability, more trust, better partners. I do not believe in religion or god but have better morals and look for the same in return. It’s not hard to look through all the labels and bs to find greed as a base instinct. Slogans and lies with few incremental improvements are US politics. Buy hey, it’s always been like that, nothing new. I still believe tech and more commonsense messaging are powerful weapons for a better future. 
 

Because you didn't experience real unfairness. What stopped a k12 students in US excel in school/ trade skills and thrive but the environment around him and his effort? 80% of US billionaires are self made, and it is the highest among elites around the world. Outside of US, Europe around 60% via inheritance. In Asia it is much much higher. The equality/fairness of chance in the US is much higher than elsewhere and it improving generations by generations.

US students don't need to earn money to support their parents, unlike in any third world countries. In the US you always have a chance to live small and dream big, in most other countries , were born in rural area, no matter how hard you study , it will be very hard to get to a good university in big city, let along turned into elites. US still the easiest country middle class can afford a house.

The gap between the rich and the poor in the US, besides having foreign share holder bosses, is because US technology is changing so fast so naturally it is very easy to fall behind, unlike other countries you can work the same jobs in your whole life without any skill upgrade. Take this gap away and US tech innovation would be in stagnation just like any other countries. 

 

1 hour ago, Boat said:

Sunz, one last thing. I don’t expect our leaders or world leaders to be competent. I don’t expect them to articulate a smart, fair, competent plan. There is no such thing as informed masses. Most people can’t read a simple chart and relate how it tracks. What most large groups of people are good at is reacting. Large scale emotion by millions will bring attention and sometimes change. 
There is to much at stake for one party to allow the other to censor. You don’t like Facebook, build another Facebook. You don’t like zero hedge, build a huff post. Reddit is becoming that. Each group guards what they believe by selected members. But there are many different groups on different issues so sometimes the two party system doesn't matter. 

Boat, the problem is the capital money spend on that to do something and this is the barrier. Establishment, elites have the capital to turn people who hate them votes for incompetent politicians to act in their benefits.  Even if someone can do what you suggest, look at Parler as example, I heard they even have to use Russia server as most cloud platform didn't accept them. Otherwise do they have to build their own cloud, with their own chip? Money can destroy any attempt. If you can use a platform for free, you are the product.

I use reddit quite often and I don't think they are free from censorship. Besides censorship, money can hire a punch of keyboard warriors to stir hate or interrupt a good debate topics. I understand these techniques as it is widely use in VN or China but it is still better than censorship because eventually more and more people will be familiar to these techniques like me and discard them. Gradually members will develop their own filter system. What you can't see doesn't mean it does not exist.

If you don't expect for competent, smart, fair, how would you want them to encounter emotionless rich establishments, which understand charts in Wall Street and around the World? 

The companies or countries government can grow big and improve  because of the a few can read charts can control a large percent of employees that couldn't.  If some people who have a chance to learn to read chart but didn't, how could them complain that it is not fair for what they contribute more but get less return than someone can make informed decision bases on chart? Someone cannot read charts mean they don't understand the system. How do they define fairness and improve it without even understanding how the system works. 

Large scale emotion by millions will bring attention and changes, but they can easily be redirect to consequences opposite to what they expected which will make them even more emotional and the loop keep repeating to no end. 

People can emotionally break something fast, but it needs calm, logic, knowledge and empathy people to understand and improve the system. And the only way to doing that is to choose politicians with proven competent, smart , fair plan without any emotional effect from media. 

Political system  is the products of the voters and the quality of the voters will decide the country future  living standard, just like the quality of employee will decide the outcome of the company's product.  US gained independent from nationalism emotion but didn't  build the pollical system based on emotions. 

I don't know if I am considered religion or not. I believe in someone create this world but I don't believe that one will help me or will soften my suffering or giving me pleasure and I am responsible for my action via cause and effect and I always appreciate what I have. I know I sound like a priest but I don't try to persuade anyone to join any religion. 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by SUZNV

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

Oil Price knowingly harboured terrorists...they were notified.

Remember the traitor thread (0R0, Ward)?

Edited February 20, 2022 by TailingsPond

[TailingsPond + 1,006]

Oil price got sick of it too.... sort of.  Russia propaganda theories are still cool I guess.... 

Edited February 20, 2022 by TailingsPond

[SUZNV + 1,197]

@Boat,From my observation in the fairness, I have 3 examples:

- A general labor immigrants family, little English, They don't know anything to educate their sons but they just told their sons to make them proud by being  doctors or engineers. They regularly checking for the son's grades, The son works toward that goal, take huge risk in college debt and being doctors or engineer. One of my doctor friend got 300k of student loan after graduation from medical school. A youngster with that level of debt is very likely skillful in personal finance.   Stable job till retire, high pay but still have to constantly learning to catch up with new technologies. Parents are proud and enjoy higher living standards. Everyone is happy with the system.

-Another multi family, many generations living in a big house which saves lots of living cost, no one or a few works but happy the way it is and enjoy family and lifestyle. The youngsters later get married from similar multifamily and still live in a same house, husband and wife and kids are in the same room. I know this description is weird but I saw this life style mostly among Pacific Islanders. Their culture is more about family than materialistic consumption, debt free. They are happy with the system.

-Another family parent don't really care about son's grade. Don't really care how his life would be. Their son grows up,  have a general labor job and feel the pressure of the living standard dropping (wage cannot keep up with inflation, ) and harder harder for him to find job because automation or outsource put pressure on salary yet he couldn't reduce the living standard to adapt and in credit card debt trap and he wonder why his parents have a higher living standard  until retirement with the same job he has. Off course he won't happy with the system as it seems unfair. especially the sons in the first example went to school with him and seemed to be a loser nerd. He was more popular in sport, in girls.

He wants their life styles and suffer and think the system should change. He is not wrong that the system is no longer favor him as technologies and globalization evolving faster and faster and to adapt, he would have to pick up one of the two choices above but no one point out the choices for him when he was very young. I tried to be that guy, some listened, some didn't (understandably as I am not their parent, who spend money on them so why should they believe me, and it is not me that will responsible for the student loan and their future) and it is very very hard and tough to reroute once you passed that turn.

This is truly a tragedy but in the third world country, the one who is lucky enough to have the first choice couldn't match his salary and lifestyle without inheritance or  parents with good networks in the corruption system. With parents who are powerful enough, they don't really need the degrees. In this sense US system is fair which result 80% of billionaires are self made. 

How would the system change without lowering technology adoption or high tariff in imports to match with high labor cost without damaging the trading relationship to sell high tech innovations and US still can reduce budget deficit? Should US sacrifice high paying jobs to attract talent with innovation tech to boost productivity or even reach the space, ensure its number 1, good tax revenue preparing for aging demographics?

Every politician knows this, along with mainstream. But they keep pointing figures to each other to stir up emotions for getting votes or profits for media because it attracts viewers and got donation from election campaigns or lobbying. And this trend will destabilize the society in tough economics time which put weight on both innovation and welfare. 

Resources are scarce,  by archiving this we have to sacrifice that. There is no silver bullet.

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by SUZNV

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:39 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Thus haven't noticed the Chinese having any, either.

I don't think you're paying attention. You seem a discerning person, you really can't pick out the CCP monitors on this forum? It's easy if you try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRw0IeHeaXs&t=5019s

ADV have some the best videos explaining what it's really like to live in the CCP kingdom imo.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Strangelovesurfing

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:49 AM, SUZNV said:

Democracy doesn't guarantee good outcome but the decisions are not really in a few hands.

Democracy does guarantee the ability to remove past their prime, overly corrupt and incompetent leaders. Stoping the bleeding is democracy's super power. No-one can stop autocratic governments from screwing up once they start.

You can see this effect in action right now in China. They have no clue what to do now that the property sector blew up. They just authorized escrow account releases to the dead beat developers littering the entire sector.

https://youtu.be/5JoIo_25Bmw

They're bailing out the crooks with peoples hard earned money, what a surprise.

[Piotr Berman + 82]

"Democracy does guarantee the ability to remove past their prime, overly corrupt and incompetent leaders."  Trump removed, Biden is the replacement.  With this trajectory, I wonder who will replace Biden: Storm Thurmond is gone.  [Chinese in response to a real estate crisis] "are bailing out the crooks with peoples hard earned money, what a surprise."  So they are a democracy after all??!!

 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

14 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Democracy does guarantee the ability to remove past their prime, overly corrupt and incompetent leaders. Stoping the bleeding is democracy's super power. No-one can stop autocratic governments from screwing up once they start.

You can see this effect in action right now in China. They have no clue what to do now that the property sector blew up. They just authorized escrow account releases to the dead beat developers littering the entire sector.

https://youtu.be/5JoIo_25Bmw

They're bailing out the crooks with peoples hard earned money, what a surprise.

Real estate is a way to inflate GDP so CCP can sing the song of prosperity. Chinese cannot own gold (but jewelry) or USD or even crypto so they bought and hold unlivable empty houses (no electricity, water, elevator just the outside look)  and this create an economy and fund for local governments (who increase the price of new land to push up the price). It is the greed that lead people to speculate unlivable houses in the first place but government is the largest fraud. Officials just hope the bubble is keep going up until they leave the position and accumulate lots of personal wealth. 

Secondly it is a sign of economy slowing down as nothing worth to invest in but real estates bubble for miracle GDP and jobs. 

About the bailing out part, it is not China exclusive. The weakest with countries with long times leader is transition period when that leader step down, both Xi and Tin (assume that Xi would be elected within Party this year).

In history, most elite classes lose touch of reality which causes chaos and in turn affect the commoners. Democracy gives a mechanism for this harder to happen. 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by SUZNV

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

15 hours ago, Piotr Berman said:

"Democracy does guarantee the ability to remove past their prime, overly corrupt and incompetent leaders."  Trump removed, Biden is the replacement.  With this trajectory, I wonder who will replace Biden: Storm Thurmond is gone.  [Chinese in response to a real estate crisis] "are bailing out the crooks with peoples hard earned money, what a surprise."  So they are a democracy after all??!!

 

The next generation replaces Biden whether the old generation likes it or not. The Kremlin is full of old coot's well past their sell-buy date re-fighting battles from their KGB youth. There's no ability to remove them, that never ends well.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:06 PM, Strangelovesurfing said:

The next generation replaces Biden whether the old generation likes it or not. The Kremlin is full of old coot's well past their sell-buy date re-fighting battles from their KGB youth. There's no ability to remove them, that never ends well.

Look who is talking. Your Politbiro is older than Brezhnev's. Those guys died off in their late 70ties.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:18 AM, Piotr Berman said:

"Democracy does guarantee the ability to remove past their prime, overly corrupt and incompetent leaders."  Trump removed, Biden is the replacement.  With this trajectory, I wonder who will replace Biden: Storm Thurmond is gone.  [Chinese in response to a real estate crisis] "are bailing out the crooks with peoples hard earned money, what a surprise."  So they are a democracy after all??!!

 

The youthful Nancy Pelosi?

[Boat + 1,323]

25 minutes ago, Wombat One said:

Those are the people that Bill Clinton disenfranchised when he allowed China into the WTO. Same applies to 10 times as many middle-class white Americans? Where has your wokeness got you? Seems it has been highly counter-productive?

Apparently you don’t read many of my comments but the US democracy is a two headed snake run by various oligarchs pushing influence of their particular interests. We always have an opposing group of oligarchs to champion the opposition. China can be looked at as a mistake but I think it was a good try that failed. I think trading with Russia was a good idea that failed. That’s not to say that in 100 years ago cultures change and it’s worth another try. 
So for one group of oligarchs to rule the majority of highly independent oligarchs will feel partly disenfranchised. Make sense? There will always be conflict in a practical sense. 
I golfed, drank, chased women and shot pool during my lifelong losing streak. You?

[Boat + 1,323]

1 minute ago, Wombat One said:

PS: The best way to fight unfairness is to grow a brain and start using it? You know, like all those horrible "masses" that you frown upon and think you need to save but wouldn't know where to begin? Even with 10% inflation, I suppose you still believe in the MMT fairy like Jay does? My only complaint with SUZNV is that he has no sympathy for the under-privileged when the West has seen the greatest amount of disruption in history. Globalisation, automation, immigration, AI, climate change, yet it is the "woke" that exacerbate these pressures and trends with their irrational policies and propaganda. You are all idiots!

I tell them damm lefties to quit immigration and stop paying money to have babies. Population=resource demand=pollution=climate degradation. Your lack of wokness is showing. Get the main issue right.

[Boat + 1,323]

7 minutes ago, Wombat One said:

PS: The best way to fight unfairness is to grow a brain and start using it? You know, like all those horrible "masses" that you frown upon and think you need to save but wouldn't know where to begin? Even with 10% inflation, I suppose you still believe in the MMT fairy like Jay does? My only complaint with SUZNV is that he has no sympathy for the under-privileged when the West has seen the greatest amount of disruption in history. Globalisation, automation, immigration, AI, climate change, yet it is the "woke" that exacerbate these pressures and trends with their irrational policies and propaganda. You are all idiots!

Let’s repeat. All the green transitions need not happen on the backs of the poor like a Putin would do. The idea of greener energy besides eliminating some suffering and earlier death is to lessen the volatility caused by FF. By humans and Mother Nature. Since most rednecks choose to take most discussions out of context. We just plug away and are proud to do it.

Angelina is a strong young woman with a great woke message.

https://youtu.be/gXOPpwucDYw

[Boat + 1,323]

2 minutes ago, Wombat One said:

You got one thing right. We are in conflict and me and the masses will win, just as we always do.

You are in my sights now.

 

The masses survive, the oligarchs make policy. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

45 minutes ago, Wombat One said:

You are displaying your insanity once again. I am a humanist. You want to destroy the human race and leave the planet to the apes?

Quite a While ago I coined a certain individual, and yes a planet of apes would be a very comfortable environment for a certain individual. And then they ascend. The lag seems to be unbelievable 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open

[surrept33 + 609]

6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Quite a While ago I coined a certain individual, and yes a planet of apes would be a very comfortable environment for a certain individual. And then they ascend. The lag seems to be unbelievable 

that's just wokeness on DMT tho

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

10 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

that's just wokeness on DMT tho

Surrept wokeness may well be introduced to reality of mankind. If you can grasp the following thought for just a moment. To be being a WOKEN requires a chimp mind. 

 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

6 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Look who is talking. Your Politbiro is older than Brezhnev's. Those guys died off in their late 70ties.

Old is not only chronological but also mental. The ancient paranoid security officers (who still throw rose petals to Stalin) running your country just initiated a war against a formerly friendly country.

I like how the Kremlin is using US language about precision weaponry, not attacking civilians, regime change etc. Going to be interesting watching Russian govt. spokespeople twist in the wind using US war language while claiming it’s different. 

Russia attacking Ukraine is like the US attacking Canada, it’s madness. Your KGB buddies just started a civil war in the Soviet Union.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Strangelovesurfing

[notsonice + 1,255]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:52 PM, TailingsPond said:

Oil Price knowingly harboured terrorists...they were notified.

Remember the traitor thread (0R0, Ward)?

now now Big E , remember what happened last time when you claimed Oil Price knowingly harboured terrorists...they were notified. Big question why are you hiding under a new name????

[notsonice + 1,255]

6 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The youthful Nancy Pelosi?

wisdom comes with age, then again I think you are an exception to the rule

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

4 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Old is not only chronological but also mental. The ancient paranoid security officers (who still throw rose petals to Stalin) running your country just initiated a war against a formerly friendly country.

I like how the Kremlin is using US language about precision weaponry, not attacking civilians, regime change etc. Going to be interesting watching Russian govt. spokespeople twist in the wind using US war language while claiming it’s different. 

Russia attacking Ukraine is like the US attacking Canada, it’s madness. Your KGB buddies just started a civil war in the Soviet Union.

Nobody throws rose petals to Stalin.

 Of course, it is different. They are not attacking civilians for real, US only talks about it.

You started that war back in 2014 already.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

15 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Nobody throws rose petals to Stalin.

 Of course, it is different. They are not attacking civilians for real, US only talks about it.

You started that war back in 2014 already.

Still proud to be Russian Andrei???

Ukraine invasion live updates: '40 dead' as Russia launches 'second wave' - NATO says we have 'war in Europe on scale we thought belonged to history'