Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: OOPS! Ukraine invasion: Russia hikes key interest rate to 20% after rouble slumps to record low https://news.sky.com/story/war-in-ukraine-russian-bank-run-has-already-started-as-rouble-plunges-to-all-time-low-12553800 They are interfering with Russian central banks ability to interfere, by not letting them touch their FX reserves. Otherwise, the speculators would be crucified. There are no problems with Russia's fundamentals and it is artificially induced. This stunt effectively moved the global financial authority to China https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/stocks-tied-chinas-swift-alternative-are-soaring Nobody will believe in any kind of reserve with a Western central bank anymore. Only with China and gold (which Russia also got, up the wazoo) It's like absolutely nobody is giving their gold reserve to the Bank of England anymore, after you stole Venezuela's stash. There are Western companies which have to liquidate Russian stock and rubles NOW, no matter how low the price, because their local regulator tells them. After that, there will be a rebound. Alternatively, Russia DISALLOWS taking any profit out and introduces FX controls till you allow the Bank of Russia to its own property. And you will. Trillions of assets owned by Western entities are at play? You want to play without rules? Russia is game. I think BP's 20% share in Rosneft is effectively forfeit already. British inbred degenerates are in the lead of being stupid. Look how you traded 2 daily Aeroflot flights to London for 70 daily flights to Asia Pacific Let's see which one wins, your cut paper vs. the resources of the entire CONTINENT OF EURASIA, dillweeds. Which is what Russia+China is, pretty much. You are so going down. Especially when you are running ahead of the Yankee steamroller. They haven't closed their airspace to Aeroflot and will be eating your breakfast in air travel, together with a bunch of Asian carriers. Edited February 28, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 40 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: No i wouldnt I actually think youre a bright guy, however you use Wiki as a source far too often for me as they are NOT facts. You also often make statements and claims that arent corroborated as they are your opinions. English Wiki is very strongly doctored in favor of your official narrative, not ours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rob Plant said: There is little to no point in discussing further with you as your biased one sided viewpoint is startling. Amazing. You haven't even started to familiarize yourself with the other side's viewpoints, you've only ever seen just one so far. I have no such luxury, having spent years floating in an outright ocean of propaganda lies about my Motherland. Finally, I've had enough. It is going to cost you. Edited February 28, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Rob Plant said: What has his religion got do with anything? You are clearly antisemitic along with xenophobic. Now who is the vile one? This is American warmongering???? Are you on the same drugs as Andrei? This is clearly a desperate Putin trying for a land grab against another nation, he is the warmonger and he is killing hundreds of innocent men women and children and yet as usual you spout off its all Americans fault. You become more ludicrous each post you make! Will it be Americans fault when your belived Xi invades Taiwan, another sovereign nation? And before you start your ridiculous reply read "A SOVEREIGN NATION", NOT CHINESE! Actually, Taiwan is not de jure a sovereign nation. US and everybody in UN have officially signed off on "one China" policy. That suited the KMT just fine, too. The only real disagreement the fascists in Taipei have with the ones in Beijing is as to who is in charge. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: On this we agree. As I have stated before nothing would please British people or the government more if it was and N.Ireland was nothing to do with Britain as its a huge drain on Britain economically. Guess what the Northern Irish people DONT want to be Irish!! Only wish they did. The reason they dont is their standard of living would plummet overnight. Also the Southern Irish people dont want them to become "Irish" either as this would further drain their incredibly limited resources and finances. i'm sure the people of Ukraine wish to remain Ukrainian (looking at the resistance), if they wanted to be Russian I think theyd be holding street parties instead of arming themselves dont you, but hey ho we are where we are. Ireland is slightly richer than UK on the average, meanwhile. You need an update on your stats. Trying to keeps up with American Joneses in Imperial posturing has not been affordable, perhaps? The difference between Ukrainian and Russian is largely a matter of self-identification. Crimeans overwhelmingly wanted to be Russian. And, did it help them any? Seems this direction of choice you don't approve? Do I sense double standards again? Russia is not looking to annex Ukraine, merely to stop the war, demilitarize and denazify it. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: It is going to cost you. How so? Your leader is a madman hellbent on "showing strength" to his people at the cost of thousands of lives on both sides. If Putin had stopped at the Donbas region then I think he would have got what he wanted and avoided most of the bloodshed, but he is intent on taking the whole country and thats what people arounf the globe (not just Western countries) cannot stomach. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Ireland is slightly richer than UK on the average, meanwhile. You need an update on your stats. Trying to keeps up with American Joneses in Imperial posturing has not been affordable, perhaps? The difference between Ukrainian and Russian is largely a matter of self-identification. Crimeans overwhelmingly wanted to be Russian. And, did it help them any? Seems this direction of choice you don't approve? Do I sense double standards again? Russia is not looking to annex Ukraine, merely to stop the war, demilitarize and denazify it. Again wrong and misinformation, and you say I need an update on stats hahahaha, yet you provide none, see below. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country "Russia is not looking to annex Ukraine, merely to stop the war" do you mean by trying to take by force Ukraine you are trying to stop the war? Really unvbelievable comment even from you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Actually, Taiwan is not de jure a sovereign nation. US and everybody in UN have officially signed off on "one China" policy. That suited the KMT just fine, too. The only real disagreement the fascists in Taipei have with the ones in Beijing is as to who is in charge. OK I accept theyre not a sovereign nation technically, however I have some Questions Do the Taiwanese people see themselves as Chinese or Taiwanese? Do the Taiwanese people want to relinquish their right to choose who rules them? Do the Taiwanese people want to reduce their standard of living? Do the Taiwanese people want to remain a democratically run country? etc etc Answer the questions honestly, if the answer to any of these is Yes then Beijing should respect that or they will forever create another Vietam or as you say Northern Ireland, and trust me nobody wants that (well maybe Putin with Ukraine). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Ahh now we see your true colours, "ALL Brits are low-class scum" And more! If you remove the Brit "low class scum" then what are you left with? Yeah thats right sheep! pretty sure they cant vote. You have a xenophobic problem Andrei with anything British or American just like Frankfurter. So by definition I am low class scum even though you have never met me. Thats fine you believe what propaganda you have been fed Resorting to name calling like Frankie does makes your arguments hollow and false. I thought you were better than that, clearly not. There is a difference. There are a lot of people in US who I know personally and have a sentimental attachment to. I know they are not like that. Anywhere I look at UK, I see a sea of tabloid reading scum, who for some reason is feeling all superior to us Russians. Ultimately, nobody in UK I will personally miss. Let's play some scenarios. How about testing the Poseidon/Status-6 doomsday torpedo on you? Most of the mainland Britain is at almost zero elevation from the sea level. All the way to the Scottish Highlands, where our only potential friends are. Perfect. It will only take one of those to wash you all down the drain. The rest of NATO will immediately start kissing Russian ass (because the NATO area is the world's toilet bowl. Everything is at near zero elevation.(Except for US West, which is immune. Perfect. East Coast is all game) Another scenario. The biggest problem is conventional nukes coming from the East, with the rising sun. There is no way anything can get any kind of detection or lock from the ground when looking straight into the Sun. Mood song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbarsF6sG2E If you ever need to sneak into Burning Man, this is the only way to do it. With the Sun rising straight behind your back. No optical or electronics sensor can make out anything. In case you didn't what that is, it's the thing on the flag of Kazakhstan. Real Kazakhstan The other thing, a bird with a wing span occluding the sun, is a heraldic dragon. Big claim. None others obviously exist anymore. Think "Mongol Horde all hands" Because this is what Russia really is - the Mongol Horde. I think we can get in touch with this part of our identity, don't you think. You know, Sasha Baron Cohen managed to offend simultaneously the Kazakhs and the Romanian gypsies with his Borat. For no good reason whatsoever. Why didn't he say he really meant old Lizbekistan all along? Look at the old Admiral General Alladin, sorry an old schmuck Phil, Admiral of the Fleets Phil, wearing his special loyal bling and more of his spawn A five-star Admiral, higher than any NATO officer in peacetime. Psst, I found out the small print on how it works. Admiral of the Fleets of NZ. Yes, both of their ships! You really ought to take a look in the mirror more often. Edited February 28, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Amazing. You haven't even started to familiarize yourself with the other side's viewpoints, you've only ever seen just one so far. I have no such luxury, having spent ears floating in an outright ocean of propaganda lies about my Motherland. Finally, I've had enough. It is going to cost you. Ive been to both Russia and Ukraine before. Unlike the majority on this site. So I do have a take on the other viewpoint. The people seem like people the world over to me, generally nice and the odd one or 2 not so. I'm a pretty well travelled person been to Africa several times, China several times, US several times pretty much every European country etc etc and I like the different cultures. People the world over want the same things to live in peace, earn an honest living, provide for their family and try to eke out a better standard of living by working hard and be as smart as they can. This is why I dont like xenophobia as its tarring peope with the same brush. There are many corrupt and poorly run countries, many different political systems. All of these have issues both good and bad just like the people in them, but there are no bad people as a whole, every nation I have been to, which is a lot, are in the main good. The leaders are the ones to blame when power makes them do terrible things. I will say the level of corruption trying to do business there was bad in Russia but not much different to many parts of the world, MENA, Brazil most of S.E Asia etc. However corruption exists everywhere including Western countries so I'm not pointing the finger here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: How so? Your leader is a madman hellbent on "showing strength" to his people at the cost of thousands of lives on both sides. If Putin had stopped at the Donbas region then I think he would have got what he wanted and avoided most of the bloodshed, but he is intent on taking the whole country and thats what people arounf the globe (not just Western countries) cannot stomach. Putin is a very polite elderly politician with a rather soft touch. His macho strongman personality is a 100% creation of your propaganda. He started out as a most devout pro-Western stooge, but you left him no other choice. All he did is what his electorate ultimately demanded. It's not like in the West, where politician are figureheads who do nothing much and the sheeple electorate support and vote for whatever the zombie box tells them to believe in. You will have to stomach it, because you never had any qualms about attacking and destroying random countries yourself before, usually on entirely made up pretext. How is Ukraine any different from Serbia or Iraq? Except for reasons they are attacked, being non-imaginary, of course. Putin never wanted Donbass, but they were to terrified of the new Ukraine to stay. To recap, you started the whole thing by supporting a bloody and unconstitutional Maidan coup. All over a free trade agreement? Neither does Putin want "the entire Ukraine" There will be a new government that is no longer hostile to Russia and Russians, that's it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Ive been to both Russia and Ukraine before. Unlike the majority on this site. So I do have a take on the other viewpoint. The people seem like people the world over to me, generally nice and the odd one or 2 not so. I'm a pretty well travelled person been to Africa several times, China several times, US several times pretty much every European country etc etc and I like the different cultures. People the world over want the same things to live in peace, earn an honest living, provide for their family and try to eke out a better standard of living by working hard and be as smart as they can. This is why I dont like xenophobia as its tarring peope with the same brush. There are many corrupt and poorly run countries, many different political systems. All of these have issues both good and bad just like the people in them, but there are no bad people as a whole, every nation I have been to, which is a lot, are in the main good. The leaders are the ones to blame when power makes them do terrible things. I will say the level of corruption trying to do business there was bad in Russia but not much different to many parts of the world, MENA, Brazil most of S.E Asia etc. However corruption exists everywhere including Western countries so I'm not pointing the finger here. I don't believe you. Nobody who's actually been to Russia believes into it being an evil dictatorship. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Anywhere I look at UK, I see a sea of tabloid reading scum, who for some reason is feeling all superior to us Russians. Ultimately, nobody in UK I will personally miss. Let's play some scenarios. How about testing the Poseidon/Status-6 doomsday torpedo on you? Most of the mainland Britain is at almost zero elevation from the sea level. All the way to the Scottish Highlands, where our only potential friends are. Perfect. It will only take one of those to wash you all down the drain. The rest of NATO will immediately start kissing Russian ass (because the NATO area is the world's toilet bowl. Everything is at near zero elevation.(Except for US West, which is immune. Perfect. East Coast is all game) Andrei have you ever spent any length of time in the UK (not a 2 night visit to London)? Our people are no different to your own. Just because our press are scum (of that we are in agreement) doesnt mean our people believe all that rubbish, if you think that you couldnt be more wrong! Why do you want to obliterate my country? You dont know my country, that is clear. I have no animosity towards the Russian people, only its leader(s). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: OK I accept theyre not a sovereign nation technically, however I have some Questions Do the Taiwanese people see themselves as Chinese or Taiwanese? Do the Taiwanese people want to relinquish their right to choose who rules them? Do the Taiwanese people want to reduce their standard of living? Do the Taiwanese people want to remain a democratically run country? etc etc Answer the questions honestly, if the answer to any of these is Yes then Beijing should respect that or they will forever create another Vietam or as you say Northern Ireland, and trust me nobody wants that (well maybe Putin with Ukraine). I think they have no problem with being Chinese or Cantonese, if the political issue is involved. There used to be indigenous Taiwanese people, but they mostly got whacked. Chinese model is a meritocracy. Much better alternative to your "democracy" nobody in the Far East was ever that strong a believer in. Why reduce? Mainland Chinese tide is lifting all the boats on the region except for Japan. The KMT (Chinese nationalists who founded today's Taiwan) are slightly in minority now. Psst, another secret. They've never been that high on democracy, either. When it is time, they'll just butcher the opposition like they always did before. Problem solved. They could also go for a token "one country, two systems" setup, which HK used to enjoy, What is wrong with Vietnam? It is doing great. I have very strong doubts about there being any real democracy anywhere in the Far East. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: I don't believe you. Nobody who's actually been to Russia believes into it being an evil dictatorship. I have been to St.Petersburg and very briefly Moscow. I have been to Mykolaiv in Ukraine to visit Zorya Mashproekt I dont care if you believe me or not, but I am telling you the truth, that is why I have no animosity to the Russian people. You on the other hand want to obliterate my country which I believe you have never been to. Sad Edited February 28, 2022 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Andrei have you ever spent any length of time in the UK (not a 2 night visit to London)? Our people are no different to your own. Just because our press are scum (of that we are in agreement) doesnt mean our people believe all that rubbish, if you think that you couldnt be more wrong! Why do you want to obliterate my country? You dont know my country, that is clear. I have no animosity towards the Russian people, only its leader(s). Nope, a couple of 2 nights visits in London and a day in Oxford. Did I miss anything? I had higher expectations for everything I've seen. You don't know my country, and you started it. As it turns out, several hundred years ago already! Already spreading vicious lies about Russians since way before you and me were born. Please don't insult the Russian people's intelligence with "we only hate your leaders' thing?" Russian people elected themselves just the leadership they wanted. There is no reason to make a difference between the two. Russians are the new Jews. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: I have been to St.Petersburg and very briefly Moscow. I have been to Mykolaiv in Ukraine to visit Zorya Mashproekt I dont care if you believe me or not, but I am telling you the truth, that is why I have no animosity to the Russian people. You on the other hand want to obliterate my country which I believe you have never been to. Sad Zorya Mashproekt - a classic example of strategic Ukrainian business destroyed by Maidan. Not exactly getting any orders not related to Russia? I've been to UK briefly. I can easily live without it. Not so for Ukraine! I was there at least once a year before 2014, for Kazantip music festival in Crimea. Highest babe ratio ever. Why did you destroy my Crimea and my Ukraine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 57 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Again wrong and misinformation, and you say I need an update on stats hahahaha, yet you provide none, see below. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country "Russia is not looking to annex Ukraine, merely to stop the war" do you mean by trying to take by force Ukraine you are trying to stop the war? Really unvbelievable comment even from you. I was thinking about GDP/capita for Ireland? This quality of life thing seems highly synthetic. How about per capita energy use, which is a component thereof? It makes Russia outscore you, which is about right. I didn't feel like the quality of life in London was anything but appalling, unless you make/expend some ungodly amounts of money, perhaps. We are trying to decisively force the peace, yes. What Russia already did in Georgia and what you really failed to do in Yugoslavia. Do I sense double standards? Something like this, but without massive bombings of civilians, preferably. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: I was thinking about GDP/capita for Ireland? This quality of life thing seems highly synthetic. How about per capita energy use, which is a component thereof? It makes Russia outscore you, which is about right. I didn't feel like the quality of life in London was anything but appalling, unless you make/expend some ungodly amounts of money, perhaps. We are trying to decisively force the peace, yes. What Russia already did in Georgia and what you really failed to do in Yugoslavia. Do I sense double standards? Something like this, but without massive bombings of civilians, preferably. This war was started between Croats and Serbs and there was evidence of genocide and "ethnic cleansing" by the Serbs, but Croats also slaughtered Muslim civilians. I believe British forces were part of the UN peacekeeping force and were there on humanitarian grounds. https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/former-yugoslavia-and-the-role-of-british-forces/ No double standards, the UK didnt invade Yugoslavia which is what Russia is trying to do in Ukraine. In fact they tried to help the people and prevent genocide under the UN flag. Edited February 28, 2022 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 39 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Zorya Mashproekt - a classic example of strategic Ukrainian business destroyed by Maidan. Not exactly getting any orders not related to Russia? I've been to UK briefly. I can easily live without it. Not so for Ukraine! I was there at least once a year before 2014, for Kazantip music festival in Crimea. Highest babe ratio ever. Why did you destroy my Crimea and my Ukraine? How has the UK destroyed "your" Crimea and Ukraine? By the way London is possibly the worst example of "being British" there are more foreign nationals living and working in London than British people so its as far away from true representation as you could ever get! If you ever choose to go again then visit more northern areas (you wont of course) if you visited briefly you wont have experienced the culture of British people or understand how most think. Never mind its your loss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: This war was started between Croats and Serbs and there was evidence of genocide and "ethnic cleansing" by the Serbs, but Croats also slaughtered Muslim civilians. I believe British forces were part of the UN peacekeeping force and were there on humanitarian grounds. https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/former-yugoslavia-and-the-role-of-british-forces/ No double standards, the UK didnt invade Yugoslavia which is what Russia is trying to do in Ukraine. In fact they tried to help the people and prevent genocide under the UN flag. Everybody was genociding everybody else, but only the Serbs got blamed. They don't call it Balkanization for nothing? There was no UN peacekeeping force, but a NATO one! Which is a obvious oxymoron. You bombed Serbia and annexed Kosovo from them. Russian troops are not bombing that much trying to win some "hearts and minds", like I already described. Yes, double standards. There is ethnic cleansing and genocide of Russians/Russian speakers in Donbass. Why is that OK? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Everybody was genociding everybody else, but only the Serbs got blamed. They don't call it Balkanization for nothing? There was no UN peacekeeping force, but a NATO one! Which is a obvious oxymoron. You bombed Serbia and annexed Kosovo from them. Russian troops are not bombing that much trying to win some "hearts and minds", like I already described. Yes, double standards. There is ethnic cleansing and genocide of Russians/Russian speakers in Donbass. Why is that OK? Agreed both sides were as bad as each other which I stated. No that is wrong there absolutely was a UN peacekeeping force UNPROFOR https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unprof_b.htm https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unprof_p.htm Russian tropps are not bombing that much??? hmmmm You are winning no hearts and minds in Ukraine other than some in Donbass who do want to be part of Russia. Where is there ethnic cleansing and genocide of Russians in Donbass?? There is an 8 year war there but provide evidence of your claim. If you can then I agree that isnt acceptable, but prove your claim! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Rob Plant said: How has the UK destroyed "your" Crimea and Ukraine? By the way London is possibly the worst example of "being British" there are more foreign nationals living and working in London than British people so its as far away from true representation as you could ever get! If you ever choose to go again then visit more northern areas (you wont of course) if you visited briefly you wont have experienced the culture of British people or understand how most think. Never mind its your loss. The Maidan destroyed it. UK government had nothing to do with it? 2nd to the Yankees, of course. Yes, I noticed some foreign nationals, all right. They were the only ones offering edible foods. How far North? I visited North London. It was the best part. When you are a child growing up in Russia/USSR, you are quite exposed to the British culture. Via Winnie the Pooh, and Marry Poppins and Sherlock Holmes etc. I also used to be a fan of Top Gear and British spanking porn. This is how I know you've got a different word for trunk. Real UK turned out to be about as much of a disappointment as most of your TV series which are supposed to be funny, but really aren't. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 February 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Agreed both sides were as bad as each other which I stated. No that is wrong there absolutely was a UN peacekeeping force UNPROFOR https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unprof_b.htm https://peacekeeping.un.org/sites/default/files/past/unprof_p.htm Russian tropps are not bombing that much??? hmmmm You are winning no hearts and minds in Ukraine other than some in Donbass who do want to be part of Russia. Where is there ethnic cleansing and genocide of Russians in Donbass?? There is an 8 year war there but provide evidence of your claim. If you can then I agree that isnt acceptable, but prove your claim! I meant the KFOR How come the besieged Kiev still has water, power and Internet then? It is not about being part of Russia. Deprogramming most Ukrainians will take some time now, after 30 years of constant anti-Russian propaganda you bankrolled. (And by you, I often mean not the UK specifically, but some kind of collective West or its Anglospherical spearpoint) How about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_of_Angels Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,617 RP February 28, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Deprogramming most Ukrainians will take some time now But maybe they have already been deprogrammed from their time in the USSR and they are now making their own judgement like most other former USSR members and have come to the same conclusion. Its a matter of perspective Andrei. Edited February 28, 2022 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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