Putin wants Ukraine Natural Gas ? Water restarted to CRIMEA ?

[surrept33 + 609]

 

Quote

Sergei Naryshkin, head of Russian foreign intelligence: "The masks are off. The West isn't simply trying to close off Russia behind a new iron curtain. This is about an attempt to ruin our government - to 'cancel' it, as they now say in "tolerant" liberal-fascist circles."

 

Cancel culture run amok! You can't even illegally invade a country and fire cluster munitions at kindergartens before the woke mob cancels you!

Edited March 4, 2022 by surrept33

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, surrept33 said:

 

 

Cancel culture run amok! You can't even illegally invade a country and fire cluster munitions at kindergartens before the woke mob cancels you!

You easily can, though. Which is a problem with your definition of legal. Because law is something that works the same for everybody involved. Not that Russia is really firing cluster munitions at kindergardens (which will come out once Russia wins and smoke clears), but can you invade countries and fire cluster munitions? Yes you can. Not just on kindergarten, but on everything.

The woke indignation only goes as far. For example, Apple and Apple Play pulling out paralyzed the Moscow metro for one day, before people rediscovered coins.  Was it worth it? Samsung is staying and got an official US exemption from secondary sanctions for selling any electronics in Russia. Also, cars. Also ships. Etc.  Expect Apple to return in a much lesser form, never to be trusted again. Inevitably. How come? Russia is the world 4th largest market for mobile phones. Huawei is there. Took a beating, but US failed to remove their backbone business. In mobile data, indispensable. Now, they are free of Android and Google app store. Infectious American toxic waste! Subject to Politburo censorship. Choose free market alternatives! I am only ever using Huawei phones  now. Samsung (and Samsung Pay) are also there, but 2x as expensive. Not sure about this proposition. All the Russian and Chinese foundry business goes to Samsung now, too. Bye bye TSMC and Taiwan. Who may be 1/2 generation and 1nm ahead, but who cares. Subject to toxic Western infection which interferes with business.

War is nothing special. It usually ends with somebody winning. Somebody losing? Both sides losing, a draw? There is no win-win. Illegal? My ass. Only if you lose. So, I insist that it is about the challenge to US/Western exceptionalism, which allows you to interpret the same rules differently for yourself, your bosom buddies and for everybody else. This business practice is increasingly frowned upon in the 2nd and 3rd world. There is not going to be a "world order based on rules" US is pushing for, as a replacement for international law. Whose rules? Written down? Where?

My personal pet peeve is Culture War on Democracy. As a concept irreconcilable with my personal freedom. I refuse to be ruled by a mob of brainwashed morons, regardless how large a majority you manage to brainwash. I am a scientist. Prove me wrong! There is no "scientific consensus", another form of a quasi-virtuous majority protecting some incumbent perks. Not that Communism is not as bad. It is also detrimental to individual freedom, but in a way that is supposed to be voluntary. You see that there is some greater good benefiting all people, and it is more important than your optimally desired outcome for yourself. Nothing wrong with that, except for difficulty of implementing on practice.

 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

12 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes spot on NATO should have let Russia in and we wouldnt have all this shit now.

USSR actually also wanted to apply once. However, if there is no designated boogieman anymore, what do you need NATO for? Without NATO, there is no military procurement, no kickbacks, pork barrel, revolving door, lobbyist, think tanks etc. You'll have to close like the 2nd largest industry in town. (After big pharma and healthcare, it seems)

[surrept33 + 609]

48 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Samsung is staying and got an official US exemption from secondary sanctions for selling any electronics in Russia. Also, cars. Also ships. Etc.  Expect Apple to return in a much lesser form, never to be trusted again. Inevitably. How come? Russia is the world 4th largest market for mobile phones. Huawei is there. Took a beating, but US failed to remove their backbone business. In mobile data, indispensable. Now, they are free of Android and Google app store. Infectious American toxic waste! Subject to Politburo censorship. Choose free market alternatives! I am only ever using Huawei phones  now. Samsung (and Samsung Pay) are also there, but 2x as expensive. Not sure about this proposition. All the Russian and Chinese foundry business goes to Samsung now, too. Bye bye TSMC and Taiwan. Who may be 1/2 generation and 1nm ahead, but who cares. Subject to toxic Western infection which interferes with business.

 

I doubt the Chinese companies will, but Samsung chose otherwise:

 

 

Samsung Electronics Co. said product shipments to Russia have been suspended due to current geopolitical developments, joining a growing list of companies from Apple Inc. to Microsoft Corp. that are halting sales and services in the country following its invasion of Ukraine last week. 

The South Korean tech giant is actively monitoring the complex situation, the company said in an emailed statement to Bloomberg. Exports of all Samsung products ranging from chips to smartphones and consumer electronics have been suspended, according to a person familiar with the matter. 

Tensions increased on Friday after Ukraine said that Russian forces attacked a nuclear power plant in the southeast part of the country, raising the stakes in the war and prompting calls for an even more robust response to the Kremlin’s aggression. The EU, U.S. and U.K. have compiled an extensive list of sanctions in an effort to isolate the country, financially, economically and technologically. Beyond concerns about the war, operating in Russia has become challenging for outside companies, given the sanctions, a U.S. ban on transactions with the country’s central bank and a precipitous decline in the ruble. 

Although South Korea has received an exemption from the U.S. export controls on Russia, the suspension of shipping channels and flights into the country would make it difficult for Korean companies to send products to the region anyway. Korean Air Lines Co. said on Friday that it would skip its cargo services to Moscow for two weeks, while ocean carrier HMM Co. halted bookings in and out of St. Petersburg. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-04/samsung-suspends-shipments-of-phones-chips-to-russia

[surrept33 + 609]

This is where I see things at the moment:

Zelensky: getting more desperate

Ukrainian cities: bombarded and surrounded

Russian military: still has overwhelming materiel advantage, underwhelming logistics 

Russian people: still fed with their large chicken and wheat surplus, brainwashed by propaganda

Russian oil: still getting exported and propping up Ruble

China: still supporting Russia

Putin: still in power

[Boat + 1,324]

Let’s stop illegal immigration and bring Ukrainians to the US. I think they will assimilate quickly. They can go online and trash Putin. That has to be attractive. Lol If illegals could not work there would be a huge shortage of workers. 

[Boat + 1,324]

2 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

You easily can, though. Which is a problem with your definition of legal. Because law is something that works the same for everybody involved. Not that Russia is really firing cluster munitions at kindergardens (which will come out once Russia wins and smoke clears), but can you invade countries and fire cluster munitions? Yes you can. Not just on kindergarten, but on everything.

The woke indignation only goes as far. For example, Apple and Apple Play pulling out paralyzed the Moscow metro for one day, before people rediscovered coins.  Was it worth it? Samsung is staying and got an official US exemption from secondary sanctions for selling any electronics in Russia. Also, cars. Also ships. Etc.  Expect Apple to return in a much lesser form, never to be trusted again. Inevitably. How come? Russia is the world 4th largest market for mobile phones. Huawei is there. Took a beating, but US failed to remove their backbone business. In mobile data, indispensable. Now, they are free of Android and Google app store. Infectious American toxic waste! Subject to Politburo censorship. Choose free market alternatives! I am only ever using Huawei phones  now. Samsung (and Samsung Pay) are also there, but 2x as expensive. Not sure about this proposition. All the Russian and Chinese foundry business goes to Samsung now, too. Bye bye TSMC and Taiwan. Who may be 1/2 generation and 1nm ahead, but who cares. Subject to toxic Western infection which interferes with business.

War is nothing special. It usually ends with somebody winning. Somebody losing? Both sides losing, a draw? There is no win-win. Illegal? My ass. Only if you lose. So, I insist that it is about the challenge to US/Western exceptionalism, which allows you to interpret the same rules differently for yourself, your bosom buddies and for everybody else. This business practice is increasingly frowned upon in the 2nd and 3rd world. There is not going to be a "world order based on rules" US is pushing for, as a replacement for international law. Whose rules? Written down? Where?

My personal pet peeve is Culture War on Democracy. As a concept irreconcilable with my personal freedom. I refuse to be ruled by a mob of brainwashed morons, regardless how large a majority you manage to brainwash. I am a scientist. Prove me wrong! There is no "scientific consensus", another form of a quasi-virtuous majority protecting some incumbent perks. Not that Communism is not as bad. It is also detrimental to individual freedom, but in a way that is supposed to be voluntary. You see that there is some greater good benefiting all people, and it is more important than your optimally desired outcome for yourself. Nothing wrong with that, except for difficulty of implementing on practice.

 

The idea of cleaner water and air is just so irreconcilable to a scientist like you. Lol, airhead. Another mastermind at work here. Thanks to your superior brain power 600 billion is frozen in accounts. Is that crimping your Putinesk freedom? God forbid it messes with vodka production. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

8 hours ago, surrept33 said:

I doubt the Chinese companies will, but Samsung chose otherwise:

 

 

Samsung Electronics Co. said product shipments to Russia have been suspended due to current geopolitical developments, joining a growing list of companies from Apple Inc. to Microsoft Corp. that are halting sales and services in the country following its invasion of Ukraine last week. 

The South Korean tech giant is actively monitoring the complex situation, the company said in an emailed statement to Bloomberg. Exports of all Samsung products ranging from chips to smartphones and consumer electronics have been suspended, according to a person familiar with the matter. 

Tensions increased on Friday after Ukraine said that Russian forces attacked a nuclear power plant in the southeast part of the country, raising the stakes in the war and prompting calls for an even more robust response to the Kremlin’s aggression. The EU, U.S. and U.K. have compiled an extensive list of sanctions in an effort to isolate the country, financially, economically and technologically. Beyond concerns about the war, operating in Russia has become challenging for outside companies, given the sanctions, a U.S. ban on transactions with the country’s central bank and a precipitous decline in the ruble. 

Although South Korea has received an exemption from the U.S. export controls on Russia, the suspension of shipping channels and flights into the country would make it difficult for Korean companies to send products to the region anyway. Korean Air Lines Co. said on Friday that it would skip its cargo services to Moscow for two weeks, while ocean carrier HMM Co. halted bookings in and out of St. Petersburg. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-04/samsung-suspends-shipments-of-phones-chips-to-russia

This says they will sit it out while there is no cargo service to Russia , anyway. The exemption does exist and is worth a few pennies. Unlike virtue signalling over a non-issue in Asia.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

7 hours ago, Boat said:

Feel like sending a few F-35s?They'll do some damage, will be blown up and eventually, some will be captured. 
 

Get-er-done. Hundreds of billions of Russian Frozen money could be unfroze to buy a bunch of those F-35’s. One per pilot available is a good number to start with. 

You start doing highway robbery, so will Russia. For example, nationalizing the fleet of some 560 Boeing and Airbus aircraft leased by Western lenders?

Suspending the validity of Western IP and trademark laws?

If I were them, I'd add printing dollar and euro banknotes to the best ability of the Russian State mint. Which means as good as original. (up to trackable serials, which violates some fundamental properties of cash, yet again)

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

6 hours ago, Boat said:

The idea of cleaner water and air is just so irreconcilable to a scientist like you. Lol, airhead. Another mastermind at work here. Thanks to your superior brain power 600 billion is frozen in accounts. Is that crimping your Putinesk freedom? God forbid it messes with vodka production. 

Firstly, they were only able to freeze half as much. According to EU's Borrell (sp?) There is the gold's share. Which is in Russia and cannot be frozen. Moreover, you are the ones who are not getting any now, with China and Russia being the largest miners of new gold. The only Western shills who's got potential are the Aussies. Secondary, there are IMF SDFs. Did they freeze those or didn't? Barely any of Russia's accounts are in euro or dollar, for which there is an obvious freezing mechanism.

Massive, massive reputation hit for the framework of international finance / Washington Consensus Institutions / Bretton Woods. Ultimately, there is no such thing as revocable cash. It ain't cash, but some kind of toxic waste. Watch your Arabic friends, like the Saudis, scram. I mean, your propagandist corps are covering for them for now, but there is no way you can call some of their activities virtues by European standards. Add 2+2 and arrive at the conclusion that they are set up for asset expropriation sometime soon. And so it goes. You keep undermining the trust in your finance and see how far it gets you.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

7 hours ago, Boat said:

Let’s stop illegal immigration and bring Ukrainians to the US. I think they will assimilate quickly. They can go online and trash Putin. That has to be attractive. Lol If illegals could not work there would be a huge shortage of workers. 

This may be good for US, but terrible for Ukraine as a country. Poaching of their ablest people is already a problem for Ukraine and poorer members of the EU. Not for Russia though, since you've made it progressively difficult to get any kind of visa (currently, most Russians have to get to Warsaw somehow to get one)

Yet again. the wanton evil you represent equates to cognitive dissonance and irrationality. Do shoot yourself in a foot some more! If you want to aid Ukraine as a country, you erect visa barriers so they get to keep their best. Like what you do for Russia now. You want to help individual Ukrainians? Go ahead. This will make them Americans. One generation later, and many will not be able to find Ukraine on the map.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

21 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

What is all this nonsense?

You stated that Britain was never under any serious threat of invasion and that is clearly rubbish!

How many people dying has precisely NOTHING to do with if there was a very credible plan by the Germans to invade Britain.

Operation Sea lion

https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/military-history/2020/07/16/hitler-released-his-failed-plan-to-invade-england-80-years-ago-today/

Britain was not under threat of invasion, because the size of your fleets was staggering. Exactly as large as American, as per Washington Naval Treaty.  Nobody realizes this, because you failed to make remotely as much impact as the Yankees at sea. You know why? Because your Admiral of the Fleets, one Mountbatten Louis, flunked out of Cambridge after an unfinished year of studies in classic literature (they gave him a special MA for attendance) Obviously a naval warfare theoretician in the making. Just failed to blossom properly before getting whacked by the IRA. Perversely, the greatest thing they could do for the Empire.

[Boat + 1,324]

8 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

This may be good for US, but terrible for Ukraine as a country. Poaching of their ablest people is already a problem for Ukraine and poorer members of the EU. Not for Russia though, since you've made it progressively difficult to get any kind of visa (currently, most Russians have to get to Warsaw somehow to get one)

Yet again. the wanton evil you represent equates to cognitive dissonance and irrationality. Do shoot yourself in a foot some more! If you want to aid Ukraine as a country, you erect visa barriers so they get to keep their best. Like what you do for Russia now. You want to help individual Ukrainians? Go ahead. This will make them Americans. One generation later, and many will not be able to find Ukraine on the map.

Your shoot them In the body. This is what you do instead of poaching. Stalin killed his own by the millions. Your behavior does not suprise. You would disappear Ukraine. Preach your double talk little Putin jr, preach it to your own. 

[surrept33 + 609]

prepare for a realpolitik heel:

 

Venezuela/US start talking about resuming oil trade for first time in years

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/world/americas/venezuela-russia-usa.html

Senior U.S. officials are traveling to Venezuela on Saturday to meet with the government of President Nicolás Maduro, according to people familiar with the matter, as the Biden administration steps up efforts to separate Russia from its remaining international allies amid a widening standoff over Ukraine.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has prompted the United States to pay closer attention to President Vladimir V. Putin’s allies in Latin America, which Washington believes could become security threats if the standoff with Russia deepens, according to current and former U.S. officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive policy matters.

As Russia’s economy craters, the U.S. is seizing on an opportunity to advance its agenda among Latin American autocracies that might start seeing Mr. Putin as an increasingly weak ally.

When the U.S. and its allies began considering sanctions on Russian oil and gas exports this month to punish the country for devastation wrought in Ukraine, prominent voices affiliated with both major American political parties pointed to Venezuela as a potential substitute. Signals from Mr. Maduro’s team was also eager to re-engage with the United States.

Edited March 5, 2022 by surrept33

[Michael Sanches + 187]

On 2/27/2022 at 12:10 PM, Boat said:

 Biden? Tiny player not worth a footnote?

I don't care much about all of Biden's shenanigans. However, little scum is just as bad as big scum. Getting our service members hooked on meth while he was in the military makes Hunter scum worthy to be spit on. There is no worse scum as Hunter. Others are equal, but none worse.

[Michael Sanches + 187]

16 hours ago, surrept33 said:

As Russia’s economy craters,

I heard that the US economy is 15 times the size of the Russian economy.

Before Pearl Harbor, the US economy was 10 times the size of the Japanese econmy.

The good news was that Japan was crushed.

The bad news is that we had a whole lot of suffering in the process.

And, I don't think the new generations are tough enough for the suffering. I think Biden missed a great opportunity in the SOTU Speech by not calling for sacrifice. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

13 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Do you think his generals will disobey Putin??

I don't as its their death sentence!

Andrei is correct that Russia has far more advanced nuclear weapons and far more advanced missiles. That being said if anyone starts with nucs its pretty much game over for everyone as thats WWIII, which will last about an hour, maybe 2 at a push.

There is no death sentence in Russia. They'd be court-martialled.

You do not understand the way Russian military works. (Soviet, even more so) How often do you see the Russian military mutiny and form a junta? Trivial in the West and other militaries modelled on them. You can see how your generals and admirals are pathologically incapable of taking orders from each other, regardless how many stars they've got. This feature is omnipresent in Western militaries, as a side effect of having a caste society, where a common person could maybe become an officer, but not really a many-starred general. You had to be of a noble birth. The somewhat equalitarian US inherited this problem from the Brits, who were some of the worse. Used to not be able to coordinate even at a level of ship's capstans/colonels, eq

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Benbow#Trial_of_the_captains

So, NATO has no effective command structure above a brigade level to this day.

Nope. You will lose instantaneously and catastrophically. You haven't seen all the doomsday weapons on grandpa Pu's arsenal. My favorite one is an old Soviet make. Think of it as changing local physics, as in how much critical mass you need for a chain reaction. Will cause low enriched collections of uranium and MOX like the civilian reactors and Russian military reactors. This is containable. Highly enriched collections, like US carriers, US and UK nuclear subs, and crude fission nuclear weapons like the ones Israel's and DPRK got will go off as bombs. This one is old Soviet make BTW. See, USSR may have lost the Cold War. It won the arms race though.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

22 hours ago, Boat said:

Your shoot them In the body. This is what you do instead of poaching. Stalin killed his own by the millions. Your behavior does not suprise. You would disappear Ukraine. Preach your double talk little Putin jr, preach it to your own. 

USA disappeared several countries, all on false pretext. Do you claim this as an exclusive US right?

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

17 hours ago, surrept33 said:

prepare for a realpolitik heel:

 

Venezuela/US start talking about resuming oil trade for first time in years

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/world/americas/venezuela-russia-usa.html

Senior U.S. officials are traveling to Venezuela on Saturday to meet with the government of President Nicolás Maduro, according to people familiar with the matter, as the Biden administration steps up efforts to separate Russia from its remaining international allies amid a widening standoff over Ukraine.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has prompted the United States to pay closer attention to President Vladimir V. Putin’s allies in Latin America, which Washington believes could become security threats if the standoff with Russia deepens, according to current and former U.S. officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive policy matters.

As Russia’s economy craters, the U.S. is seizing on an opportunity to advance its agenda among Latin American autocracies that might start seeing Mr. Putin as an increasingly weak ally.

When the U.S. and its allies began considering sanctions on Russian oil and gas exports this month to punish the country for devastation wrought in Ukraine, prominent voices affiliated with both major American political parties pointed to Venezuela as a potential substitute. Signals from Mr. Maduro’s team was also eager to re-engage with the United States.

Nope. US has to shove its agenda and beg Maduro for forgiveness. The only alternatives to Russian heavy are Venezuela and Iran, who you already sanction to the max. It is going to be embarrassing. This article is nothing but damage control, which only works on Western audiences, who are used to "assisted thinking"  (new buzzword)

[surrept33 + 609]

20 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

who are used to "assisted thinking"  (new buzzword)

do you believe in these allegations of US based WMD in Ukraine?

 

from Gennady Zyuganov, leader of the Communist Party of Russia:

The power in Ukraine was in the hands of the Nazi-Bandera pack, which does not allow anyone to raise their heads. Anyone who objected to them, they either persecuted, or punished, or simply exterminated. Moreover, the Americans forced Zelenskyy to sell the land.

And, at the same time, fifteen biological laboratories were placed along the perimeter of our borders, where there is not a single Ukrainian employee, only American specialists preparing new bacteria to poison Russia and its people. Five of the same laboratories were located in Georgia and nine in Kazakhstan. Therefore, it is no coincidence that during the military-political operation these 15 laboratories in Ukraine were destroyed by the Russian Armed Forces

It looks like Russia has found "evidence" of this. 

I predict Russia will "find" a dirty bomb false flag next

Bold strategy of Putin to falsify the existence of WMDs after the invasion starts. 🤔

Edited March 6, 2022 by surrept33

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 3/4/2022 at 7:12 PM, RichieRich216 said:

We fielded weapons systems like the SR71, The F17 And with DARPA, I can assure you we have weapon systems that are so far advanced that in 10 to 20 year's they will leak out and just like the SR71 and F17 nighthawk it will be an Oh Shit moment.

No, you don't. Neither do the Russians. The deterrent value of an advanced weapons system is much higher than whatever you get out of secrecy. There is a voice record of Hitler, where he says he wouldn't have attacked the USSR if he knew about the T-34 and how many of them USSR already had.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, surrept33 said:

do you believe in these allegations of US based WMD in Ukraine?

 

from Gennady Zyuganov, leader of the Communist Party of Russia:

The power in Ukraine was in the hands of the Nazi-Bandera pack, which does not allow anyone to raise their heads. Anyone who objected to them, they either persecuted, or punished, or simply exterminated. Moreover, the Americans forced Zelenskyy to sell the land.

And, at the same time, fifteen biological laboratories were placed along the perimeter of our borders, where there is not a single Ukrainian employee, only American specialists preparing new bacteria to poison Russia and its people. Five of the same laboratories were located in Georgia and nine in Kazakhstan. Therefore, it is no coincidence that during the military-political operation these 15 laboratories in Ukraine were destroyed by the Russian Armed Forces

It looks like Russia has found "evidence" of this. 

I predict Russia will "find" a dirty bomb false flag next

Bold strategy of Putin to falsify the existence of WMDs after the invasion starts. 🤔

US DoD operated a dozen biotech research labs in Ukraine. This much is undeniable, because there is a ton of documentation that is available from open American sources on them. There is also a couple more labs in Georgia. Check out this Twitter

https://twitter.com/dgaytandzhieva

It's a famous Bulgarian investigative journalist, best known for uncovering the details of "Timber Sycamore" (CIA plan to arm ISIS & Co in Syria)

The only part USA really disputes at this point is doing weapons research there.

https://twitter.com/dgaytandzhieva/status/1497707875602518018

Ze actually blabbered in Munich that they have some kind of nuclear program now. I think they found some evidence of dirty bomb making at Energodar, where the largest European NPP is situated.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

2 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Nope. US has to shove its agenda and beg Maduro for forgiveness. The only alternatives to Russian heavy are Venezuela and Iran, who you already sanction to the max. It is going to be embarrassing. This article is nothing but damage control, which only works on Western audiences, who are used to "assisted thinking"  (new buzzword)

Venezuela produces tar sands, way different than Russian heavy oil. Russian heavy oil is still liquid, although slightly dense, is much lighter than Venezuelan tar sands which are not even liquid. It is impossible to substitute Venezuelan tar sands in place of Russian oil. The best substitute for Venezuelan tar sands is Canadian tar sands. My best guess is that USA may try to replace Canadian tar sands with Venezuelan tar sands so as to ensure Venezuela moves away from Russia and China.

The big question here is whether Maduro will trust USA at all. Considering how USA has tried to topple Venezuelan government of Hugo Chavez in 2000s and then Maduro recently, it is very unlikely that Venezuela will agree to turn against Russia and China without taking serious concessions such as complete transfer of CITGO, compensation for losses, release of all allies held on "drug" and other charges along with complete dismantlement of USA network in Venezuela and neighbouring regions. USA is unlikely to agree to the concessions and hence nothing is likely to move forward

[notsonice + 1,255]

5 minutes ago, kshithij Sharma said:

Venezuela produces tar sands, way different than Russian heavy oil. Russian heavy oil is still liquid, although slightly dense, is much lighter than Venezuelan tar sands which are not even liquid. It is impossible to substitute Venezuelan tar sands in place of Russian oil. The best substitute for Venezuelan tar sands is Canadian tar sands. My best guess is that USA may try to replace Canadian tar sands with Venezuelan tar sands so as to ensure Venezuela moves away from Russia and China.

The big question here is whether Maduro will trust USA at all. Considering how USA has tried to topple Venezuelan government of Hugo Chavez in 2000s and then Maduro recently, it is very unlikely that Venezuela will agree to turn against Russia and China without taking serious concessions such as complete transfer of CITGO, compensation for losses, release of all allies held on "drug" and other charges along with complete dismantlement of USA network in Venezuela and neighbouring regions. USA is unlikely to agree to the concessions and hence nothing is likely to move forward

what a load of BS

Crude out of Venezuela  is from Maracaibo Basin, the Barinas-Apure Basin, the Falcón Basin, the Oficina Formation. All pumped from the ground

How many people from Venezuela living in Russia or China???? close to zero

500,000 in the US .....I can tell you where Maduro would like to vacation at.......and it is not in Russia or China. He will cut a deal with the US for a suitcase full of dollars....not Rubles. 

 

$100 oil......Maduro will sell his soul to be able to pump all the oil he can...unless you think Russia needs to import Venezuelan crude

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

4 minutes ago, notsonice said:

what a load of BS

Crude out of Venezuela  is from Maracaibo Basin, the Barinas-Apure Basin, the Falcón Basin, the Oficina Formation. All pumped from the ground

How many people from Venezuela living in Russia or China???? close to zero

500,000 in the US .....I can tell you where Maduro would like to vacation at.......and it is not in Russia or China. He will cut a deal with the US for a suitcase full of dollars....not Rubles. 

 

$100 oil......Maduro will sell his soul to be able to pump all the oil he can...unless you think Russia needs to import Venezuelan crude

The crude oil being pumped from the ground in liquid form is needed for domestic consumption. Venezuela is not very rich in liquid crude reserves and hence only extracts liquid fuel for self consumption. All the exports are blends with its tar sands and blending fuel imported from Iran, India, Russia etc.

Maduro is not some junky to seek vacationing locations. People who go for long vacations and aim for pleasures are generally corrupt minded. Maduro is determined and disciplined. Just like many strong leaders such as Xi Jinping, Putin, Narendra Modi etc who rose up from party cadres on the basis of merit don't yearn for vacation spots and luxuries. Also, the 500000 Venezuelans in USA are anti-revolutionary European racists who tried to overthrow Hugo Chavez. When they failed, they went into exile to USA. Maduro considers these exiles as traitors who are not welcome