"Russia will stop 'in a moment' if Ukraine meets terms - Kremlin" by Reuters via Yahoo News...but Reuters suddenly cut out the balanced part of the story.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

12 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-strikes-russian-navy-in-berdyansk-as-war-enters-second-month-11648119468

This is a free access article if shared by a subscriber, which I am. 

Ukraine Strikes Russian Navy as War Enters Second Month

NATO agreed to help Ukraine protect itself against potential biochemical warfare during an emergency meeting in Brussels

Ukraine Hits Russia-Occupied Port; Biden, Allies to Add Pressure on Putin

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Burn baby burn!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

43 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I think youll find they will be aimed at whats left of the Russian tanks and aircraft until Putin realises he isnt going to win this war.

I feel sorry for the average Russian kept in the dark about what is actually happening to their brothers in Ukraine, the truth will out.

You are the ones kept in the dark. I am watching both sides of the propaganda war, you are obviously watching only one. Why isn't Putin going to win? The figures of Russian losses your press gets from Ukrainian sources are highly dubious. Russia has been gaining ground every day so far, controlling more territory than the size of the entire UK. Ukraine is a large place. It is wider across than distance from London to Berlin.

There is a London-based advertising agency controlling the Ukrainian "war reporting"

https://www.mintpressnews.com/ukraine-propaganda-war-international-pr-firms-dc-lobbyists-cia-cutouts/280012/

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

23 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

You are the ones kept in the dark. I am watching both sides of the propaganda war, you are obviously watching only one. Why isn't Putin going to win? The figures of Russian losses your press gets from Ukrainian sources are highly dubious. Russia has been gaining ground every day so far, controlling more territory than the size of the entire UK. Ukraine is a large place. It is wider across than distance from London to Berlin.

There is a London-based advertising agency controlling the Ukrainian "war reporting"

https://www.mintpressnews.com/ukraine-propaganda-war-international-pr-firms-dc-lobbyists-cia-cutouts/280012/

err nope!

Ukraine news live: Ukrainian forces take back towns around Kyiv; Putin 'has failed and is moving towards plan B'; 300 killed in Mariupol theatre bombing, officials say

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-latest-russia-war-putin-nuclear-live-12541713

Edited March 25, 2022 by Rob Plant

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

Just now, Rob Plant said:

err nope!

Ukraine news live: Ukrainian forces take back towns around Kyiv; Putin 'has failed and is moving towards plan B'; 300 killed in Mariupol theatre bombing, officials say

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-latest-russia-war-putin-nuclear-live-12541713

Just wait a few days, and you will see this for the usual BS all of it is.

At least follow the maps released by the French government instead of your tabloid-grade propaganda

https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1507149471888683013

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

18 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Just wait a few days, and you will see this for the usual BS all of it is.

At least follow the maps released by the French government instead of your tabloid-grade propaganda

https://twitter.com/spriter99880/status/1507149471888683013

 

I dont believe anything the French say

[notsonice + 1,266]

27 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I dont believe anything the French say

nor do I believe anything the forums Russian troll says

[surrept33 + 612]

China's stifling of anything that is not the party line internally. Meanwhile, the Chinese national living in Ukraine got branded a traitor for posting the reality of what's happening in Ukraine.  

 

https://twitter.com/dikaioslin/status/1507227307886272517

Provincial govts in China are mandating univ teachers to attend "lectures correcting one's thoughts on Ru-Ukr situation", where attendees are told Russian military action is legitimate & it's all NATO/US/Ukr's fault. Meanwhile, univ students are "reporting" their teachers who have expressed sympathy for Ukr in the classroom to relevant authorities, such that those pro-Ukr instructors would be suspended or fired.

 

correction: these are mandatory lectures not only for university teachers, but for primary/middle/high school teachers as well.

 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

9 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

China's stifling of anything that is not the party line internally. Meanwhile, the Chinese national living in Ukraine got branded a traitor for posting the reality of what's happening in Ukraine.  

 

https://twitter.com/dikaioslin/status/1507227307886272517

Provincial govts in China are mandating univ teachers to attend "lectures correcting one's thoughts on Ru-Ukr situation", where attendees are told Russian military action is legitimate & it's all NATO/US/Ukr's fault. Meanwhile, univ students are "reporting" their teachers who have expressed sympathy for Ukr in the classroom to relevant authorities, such that those pro-Ukr instructors would be suspended or fired.

 

correction: these are mandatory lectures not only for university teachers, but for primary/middle/high school teachers as well.

 

 

You make for an interesting case to a psychiatrist. Not only do you create your own fantasies, you then believe them. Some form of neurosis or such.

[surrept33 + 612]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

You make for an interesting case to a psychiatrist. Not only do you create your own fantasies, you then believe them. Some form of neurosis or such.

talking about fantasies, imagine the clueless (in fact, brainwashed) Chinese people believing InfoWars/Alex Jones as objective REALITY. but of course that's very useful for the CCP to make sure normal citizens are fine with a totalitarian state. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-social-media-Global-Times-article-COVID-coronavirus-ukraine-laboratories-2022-3

Social-media users in China are obsessing over a conspiracy theory claiming the COVID-19 virus was produced by US-linked laboratories in Ukraine

The buzz among social-media users in China stems from an article published by the state-linked Global Times titled "Research verifies that COVID was manufactured by an American company.

 

Social-media users in China have been obsessing over a conspiracy theory claiming the COVID-19 coronavirus was produced by US-linked laboratories in Ukraine.

The buzz centers on an article titled "Research verifies that COVID was manufactured by an American company," published by China's state-linked tabloid Global Times on Wednesday.

A topic thread on China's Twitter-like Weibo platform discussing the article went viral early Wednesday. As of press time, it had been viewed 1.67 billion times and spawned 292,000 comment threads.

The Global Times article, which was republished by 45 other Chinese outlets, purported that Global Times had come "one step closer to the truth" regarding the virus' origins. It also claimed the Russian army had "found a lot of evidence in Ukraine" of US-linked laboratories producing biological weapons.

The article also claimed there was "heavy evidence" of Russia having found documents bearing the "signatures of US government officials and the seals of relevant US government departments."

"When the truth is revealed, America will fall! When the truth is completely revealed, let us wait and see!" the article said.

The Global Times did not provide visual or documented evidence in the article to back up its claims.

Many Weibo users expressed their outrage over the article, with some calling for the US to be investigated and others suggesting US officials should be executed as "war criminals."

It is unclear where and when this new theory about the coronavirus' origins was seeded.

It appears to have its roots in a wild proposition touted by the American conspiracy-theory site Infowars and spread by Russian and Chinese news outlets that the US is operating biological-weapons laboratories in Ukrainian cities that have come under attack from Russia. Rumors about these "secret US bio-weapons labs" spread like wildfire on Weibo, with the media and social-media commenters seizing upon the topic.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by surrept33

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Russian brigade commander killed by own troops, Western officials claim

A Russian brigade commander in Ukraine has been killed by his own troops, Western officials have claimed. 

Colonel Medvechek, who was commanding the 37th Motor Rifle Brigade, is believed to have been deliberately run over. 

An official, who has not been named, said: "The brigade commander was killed by his own troops and killed by his own troops, we believe, as a consequence of the scale of losses that have been taken by his brigade." 

"We believe that he was killed by his own troops deliberately. We believe that he was run over by his own troops."

The official added that a lieutenant general commanding the 49th Combined Arms Army has also died in the fighting, making him the seventh Russian general to be killed in combat since the invasion began.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, surrept33 said:

talking about fantasies, imagine the clueless (in fact, brainwashed) Chinese people believing InfoWars/Alex Jones as objective REALITY. but of course that's very useful for the CCP to make sure normal citizens are fine with a totalitarian state. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-social-media-Global-Times-article-COVID-coronavirus-ukraine-laboratories-2022-3

Social-media users in China are obsessing over a conspiracy theory claiming the COVID-19 virus was produced by US-linked laboratories in Ukraine

The buzz among social-media users in China stems from an article published by the state-linked Global Times titled "Research verifies that COVID was manufactured by an American company.

 

Social-media users in China have been obsessing over a conspiracy theory claiming the COVID-19 coronavirus was produced by US-linked laboratories in Ukraine.

The buzz centers on an article titled "Research verifies that COVID was manufactured by an American company," published by China's state-linked tabloid Global Times on Wednesday.

A topic thread on China's Twitter-like Weibo platform discussing the article went viral early Wednesday. As of press time, it had been viewed 1.67 billion times and spawned 292,000 comment threads.

The Global Times article, which was republished by 45 other Chinese outlets, purported that Global Times had come "one step closer to the truth" regarding the virus' origins. It also claimed the Russian army had "found a lot of evidence in Ukraine" of US-linked laboratories producing biological weapons.

The article also claimed there was "heavy evidence" of Russia having found documents bearing the "signatures of US government officials and the seals of relevant US government departments."

"When the truth is revealed, America will fall! When the truth is completely revealed, let us wait and see!" the article said.

The Global Times did not provide visual or documented evidence in the article to back up its claims.

Many Weibo users expressed their outrage over the article, with some calling for the US to be investigated and others suggesting US officials should be executed as "war criminals."

It is unclear where and when this new theory about the coronavirus' origins was seeded.

It appears to have its roots in a wild proposition touted by the American conspiracy-theory site Infowars and spread by Russian and Chinese news outlets that the US is operating biological-weapons laboratories in Ukrainian cities that have come under attack from Russia. Rumors about these "secret US bio-weapons labs" spread like wildfire on Weibo, with the media and social-media commenters seizing upon the topic.

 

 

So, what were the secret US bio-laboratories in Ukraine producing, really?

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I dont believe anything the French say

You happen to be one people brainwashed even worse than the Americans. The Austrian Army makes some decent situation reports, but they are in German. Interested in those?

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Burn baby burn!

This is just one ship and some amount of lost matériel. How many reports have you seen about Ukraine losing all of their navy and countless ammo and fuel depots of theirs being blown up? Rhetorical question. I am well familiar with British tabloid-grade journalism as a genre,

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

6 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

You happen to be one people brainwashed even worse than the Americans. The Austrian Army makes some decent situation reports, but they are in German. Interested in those?

Ahhh brainwashed, I think you spouting your nonsense tells its own story there!

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 minute ago, Rob Plant said:

Ahhh brainwashed, I think you spouting your nonsense tells its own story there!

I am more than willing to share my sources, but you insist on gobbling up your official government lies. In this case, all I can recommend waiting out some time to let the dust settle, while keeping the scores. Was there ever a war they told you the truth about? This one is no different.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Actually it was reported the Russians blew up a key fuel depot held by the Ukrainians only this morning.

I bet you dont get that in the controlled Russian media!

Hell Putin wont even tell his people that they are at war and has lied to the conscripts who are now sadly losing their lives!!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

9 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

I am more than willing to share my sources, but you insist on gobbling up your official government lies. In this case, all I can recommend waiting out some time to let the dust settle, while keeping the scores. Was there ever a war they told you the truth about? This one is no different.

Every single war ever fought used propoganda to varying degrees as it served a purpose. Yes you have to read between the lines and look at both sides, but to accuse me of being brainwashed when you are sooo biased towards Russia speaks of hypocrisy in the extreme.

It is the same if you criticise China in any way whatsoever and you will get a tirade from Frankfurter, which clearly shows his bias/brainwashed state.

I sincerely hope the war ends as soon as possible and innocent lives on both sides are spared.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Rob Plant

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

21 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Every single war ever fought used propoganda to varying degrees as it served a purpose. Yes you have to read between the lines and look at both sides, but to accuse me of being brainwashed when you are sooo biased towards Russia speaks of hypocrisy in the extreme.

It is the same if you criticise China in any way whatsoever and you will get a tirade from Frankfurter, which clearly shows his bias/brainwashed state.

I sincerely hope the war ends as soon as possible and innocent lives on both sides are spared.

I am merely telling you that Russia is winning, as expected. Making the Ukrainians believe anything else and arming them up is outright criminal. Your government is among the parties interested in the war being as long and as bloody as possible. Instead, the Ukes should've thrown in the towel right away. The demands were initially quite light, but now won't be anymore.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

30 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Actually it was reported the Russians blew up a key fuel depot held by the Ukrainians only this morning.

I bet you dont get that in the controlled Russian media!

Hell Putin wont even tell his people that they are at war and has lied to the conscripts who are now sadly losing their lives!!

The best war news are on Telegram, which nobody controls.

The overwhelming majority of the journalists reporting from the actual frontline happen to be Russian. Most of the Western journalists are reporting from Lviv, which is as far away from any action as you can get inside Ukraine.

There are not supposed to be any conscripts. A few got sent anyway, but that was an isolated accident.

[surrept33 + 612]

1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

So, what were the secret US bio-laboratories in Ukraine producing, really?

I'll take whatever statements have been made @ the UN unless proven otherwise at face value:

https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14827.doc.htm

 

tbh, this story seems very similar to the Soviet claims that the US created AIDS in "secret biolabs" that the Soviets later had to backtrack because it was so preposterous:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/05/us/soviet-disavows-charges-that-us-created-aids.html 

SOVIET DISAVOWS CHARGES THAT U.S. CREATED AIDS

Nov. 5, 1987

Soviet scientists have disavowed charges in the Soviet-sponsored press that the AIDS virus was artificially cultivated at a secret American military base.

The scientists, Roald Sagdeyev and Vitali Goldansky, publicly distanced the Soviet Academy of Sciences from the accusations about American responsibility for acquired immune deficiency syndrome. They said they had protested the appearance of Soviet articles that repeated those contentions.

The disavowal was contained in Izvestia, the Soviet government newspaper, on Friday. The timing of the article by the scientists suggested that it had been written in response to complaints raised by Secretary of State George P. Shultz in an Oct. 23 meeting with Mikhail S. Gorbachev, the Soviet leader, about Soviet discussion of the AIDS issue. Mr. Shultz told Mr. Gorbachev that Moscow had been peddling ''bum dope'' on the subject.

Charles Redman, a spokesman for the State Department, said the United States welcomed ''this authoritative Soviet disavowal of the false charges that the U.S. is responsible for the creation of the AIDS virus.''

''We note in particular that this disavowal appeared in the official Soviet press.''

In July, the State Department asserted that Soviet-sponsored articles stating that the AIDS virus had been created in Pentagon experiments appeared this summer in newspapers in Kenya, Peru, Sudan, Nigeria, Senegal and Mexico.

The department also said then that the articles were still appearing in Russian outlets and might be part of an effort to deflect domestic fears about the Soviet Union's own AIDS cases.

Articles appearing in the Soviet press reported that the experiments were carried out at Fort Detrick, Md., for the purpose of developing a new biological weapon.

Mr. Redman said Monday that the press accusations against the United States inhibited proposals for American-Soviet cooperation in combatting AIDS, a fatal disease that destroys the body's ability to fight infections.

''We'll continue to monitor the Soviet media to ascertain that, in fact, the disinformation campaign has ceased,'' he said.

The resolution, co-sponsored by the United States and the Soviet Union, recognized one or more naturally occurring viruses of undetermined origin as the cause of the syndrome.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by surrept33

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

35 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

I'll take whatever statements have been made @ the UN unless proven otherwise at face value:

https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14827.doc.htm

 

tbh, this story seems very similar to the Soviet claims that the US created AIDS in "secret biolabs" that the Soviets later had to backtrack because it was so preposterous:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/05/us/soviet-disavows-charges-that-us-created-aids.html 

SOVIET DISAVOWS CHARGES THAT U.S. CREATED AIDS

Nov. 5, 1987

Soviet scientists have disavowed charges in the Soviet-sponsored press that the AIDS virus was artificially cultivated at a secret American military base.

The scientists, Roald Sagdeyev and Vitali Goldansky, publicly distanced the Soviet Academy of Sciences from the accusations about American responsibility for acquired immune deficiency syndrome. They said they had protested the appearance of Soviet articles that repeated those contentions.

The disavowal was contained in Izvestia, the Soviet government newspaper, on Friday. The timing of the article by the scientists suggested that it had been written in response to complaints raised by Secretary of State George P. Shultz in an Oct. 23 meeting with Mikhail S. Gorbachev, the Soviet leader, about Soviet discussion of the AIDS issue. Mr. Shultz told Mr. Gorbachev that Moscow had been peddling ''bum dope'' on the subject.

Charles Redman, a spokesman for the State Department, said the United States welcomed ''this authoritative Soviet disavowal of the false charges that the U.S. is responsible for the creation of the AIDS virus.''

''We note in particular that this disavowal appeared in the official Soviet press.''

In July, the State Department asserted that Soviet-sponsored articles stating that the AIDS virus had been created in Pentagon experiments appeared this summer in newspapers in Kenya, Peru, Sudan, Nigeria, Senegal and Mexico.

The department also said then that the articles were still appearing in Russian outlets and might be part of an effort to deflect domestic fears about the Soviet Union's own AIDS cases.

Articles appearing in the Soviet press reported that the experiments were carried out at Fort Detrick, Md., for the purpose of developing a new biological weapon.

Mr. Redman said Monday that the press accusations against the United States inhibited proposals for American-Soviet cooperation in combatting AIDS, a fatal disease that destroys the body's ability to fight infections.

''We'll continue to monitor the Soviet media to ascertain that, in fact, the disinformation campaign has ceased,'' he said.

The resolution, co-sponsored by the United States and the Soviet Union, recognized one or more naturally occurring viruses of undetermined origin as the cause of the syndrome.

 

You've got to read official UN writs the right way. What they really are saying that they don't have a verification capability for biological. Which is correct. There is OPCW for chemical, but nothing for biological. Don't you think this sort of activity deserves some amount of transparency?

Edited March 25, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, surrept33 said:

I'll take whatever statements have been made @ the UN unless proven otherwise at face value:

https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14827.doc.htm

 

tbh, this story seems very similar to the Soviet claims that the US created AIDS in "secret biolabs" that the Soviets later had to backtrack because it was so preposterous:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/05/us/soviet-disavows-charges-that-us-created-aids.html 

SOVIET DISAVOWS CHARGES THAT U.S. CREATED AIDS

Nov. 5, 1987

Soviet scientists have disavowed charges in the Soviet-sponsored press that the AIDS virus was artificially cultivated at a secret American military base.

The scientists, Roald Sagdeyev and Vitali Goldansky, publicly distanced the Soviet Academy of Sciences from the accusations about American responsibility for acquired immune deficiency syndrome. They said they had protested the appearance of Soviet articles that repeated those contentions.

The disavowal was contained in Izvestia, the Soviet government newspaper, on Friday. The timing of the article by the scientists suggested that it had been written in response to complaints raised by Secretary of State George P. Shultz in an Oct. 23 meeting with Mikhail S. Gorbachev, the Soviet leader, about Soviet discussion of the AIDS issue. Mr. Shultz told Mr. Gorbachev that Moscow had been peddling ''bum dope'' on the subject.

Charles Redman, a spokesman for the State Department, said the United States welcomed ''this authoritative Soviet disavowal of the false charges that the U.S. is responsible for the creation of the AIDS virus.''

''We note in particular that this disavowal appeared in the official Soviet press.''

In July, the State Department asserted that Soviet-sponsored articles stating that the AIDS virus had been created in Pentagon experiments appeared this summer in newspapers in Kenya, Peru, Sudan, Nigeria, Senegal and Mexico.

The department also said then that the articles were still appearing in Russian outlets and might be part of an effort to deflect domestic fears about the Soviet Union's own AIDS cases.

Articles appearing in the Soviet press reported that the experiments were carried out at Fort Detrick, Md., for the purpose of developing a new biological weapon.

Mr. Redman said Monday that the press accusations against the United States inhibited proposals for American-Soviet cooperation in combatting AIDS, a fatal disease that destroys the body's ability to fight infections.

''We'll continue to monitor the Soviet media to ascertain that, in fact, the disinformation campaign has ceased,'' he said.

The resolution, co-sponsored by the United States and the Soviet Union, recognized one or more naturally occurring viruses of undetermined origin as the cause of the syndrome.

 

The "conspiracy theory" is not very new

https://dilyana.bg/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/

Ostensibly, none of this stuff was actually classified, but merely dismissed by the media

Edited March 25, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

58 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The "conspiracy theory" is not very new

What Putin has done will bring a end to not only himself but a end to Russia itself. How this ends, that is yet to be determined. Putin has violated the construct of MAD, and there can be only one peaceful path to right his example. Putin is a desperate detached man, no concept of what he has done,and Russia is a country that cannot contain this maddeness. Invading a Country militarily aggression is one thing, leveraging the world with nuclear retaliation sets a example that cannot be tolerated. Nor will it be unchecked, Putin is not the only singular leader in this world with ambitions

 

mutual assured destruction, principle of deterrence founded on the notion that a nuclear attack by one superpower would be met with an overwhelming nuclear counterattack such that both the attacker and the defender would be annihilated.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/mutual-assured-destruction

Edited March 25, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open

[Tomasz + 1,608]

Analysts and diplomats have been saying since the 1990s that NATO expansion would eventually spark a conflict in Eastern Europe

Russia’s military offensive in Ukraine has been underway for a month now. It has already led to a global economic crisis stemming from disruptions in supply chains and rising energy prices. And although the beginning of the hostilities came as a surprise to the whole world, the current state of affairs was not unpredictable – international relations experts have been warning about the risk of this escalation for the past 30 years.

Why didn’t politicians in the West listen to their advice, instead of allowing war to break out in Europe, and fuel and food prices to skyrocket at home? RT explains.

Told you so

“I want to make it clear to everyone, both in our country and abroad, to our partners, that it’s not even about the line that we don’t want anyone to cross. The fact is that we have nowhere to retreat. They have pinned us against a line from which, sorry for the bad manners, we have nowhere to retreat,” President Vladimir Putin stated at the end of December 2021, almost two months before he ordered the assault on Ukraine. 

At the time, Moscow was trying to come to an agreement with NATO on mutual security, hoping that the US-led bloc would agree to provide comprehensive written guarantees that it would not expand any further, to the east. Not only Putin, but also other Russian officials, talked about ‘red lines’ that posed a serious threat, with ominous consequences for the world, if crossed.

The existence of these red lines – most notably against NATO expansion into Ukraine – is not some subjective concept born in the minds of Russia’s current leadership. Oddly enough, they were being discussed in the West long before they became the subject of conversation in the Kremlin. 

In 1998, George Kennan, an American diplomat and historian known as the ‘architect of the Cold War’, said NATO expansion would mean nothing less than “the beginning of a new Cold War,” warning that it would be a “tragic mistake.” 

“Of course, this will provoke a bad reaction from Russia. And when that happens, [those who made decisions about NATO expansion] will say that we have always told you the Russians are like that. But it’s just not true,” he said.

In 1997, 50 prominent foreign policy experts, including former senators, military leaders, and diplomats, sent an open letter to then-President Bill Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion. “It is a policy error of historic proportions,” they wrote.

Conservative political commentator Pat Buchanan wrote in his 1999 book ‘A Republic, Not an Empire’, “By moving NATO onto Russia’s front porch, we have scheduled a twenty-first-century confrontation.”

The current director of the CIA, William Burns, said in 2008 that for Russia, “Ukraine’s accession to NATO is the brightest of all red lines.”

“I have not yet found anyone who would consider Ukraine in NATO as something other than a direct challenge to Russia’s interests,” he said.

These are just some of the statements made by major American political figures, but it would be possible to compile an entire book from forecasts made in the 1990s alone. And after the Ukraine crisis began in 2014, and Russia’s subsequent reabsorption of Crimea, opinions about the folly of further NATO expansion were heard more and more often in the West. 

Over the past eight years, former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser, Henry Kissinger, famed American scholar of Russian studies Stephen Cohen, and many other experts have issued warnings about NATO expansion.

Are you for peace or victory?

The decisions made by Western government officials over the past 20-25 years have clearly contradicted the recommendations of these experts. 

Timofei Bordachev, the program director of the Valdai International Discussion Club and academic director of the Center for Integrated European and International Studies at the Higher School of Economics, believes the reason for this is obvious – politicians listen to experts, but don’t consider it necessary to follow their recommendations.

“In an area like international relations, politicians, unfortunately, almost never listen to the expert community. The reason for this is understandable. The task of the expert community is to achieve peace and prevent conflict. But since politicians answer to the voters, they always work to achieve victory at any cost,” Bordachev said in a conversation with RT.

“The difference in approach is obvious. Therefore, it is very difficult for politicians to listen to the opinion of experts. In achieving their goals, they bluff to the last,” he added.

This hypothesis is most clearly confirmed in an interview with the adviser to the head of the Office of the President of Ukraine, Alexey Arestovich, which was given to the Apostrophe TV YouTube channel in 2019. At the time, he not only accurately predicted the year war would break out in his country and the reasons behind it, but also asserted that conflict was inevitable, indicating that it was necessary for Ukraine:

“With a 99.9% probability, our price of joining NATO is a big war with Russia... The optimal outcome is a major war with Russia and a transition to NATO based on the results of victory over Russia.”

These words suggest that Ukraine’s leadership was not intent on preventing war at all. On the contrary, the country was preparing for war, believing it was a justifiable means of achieving ‘victory’ – joining NATO.

However, this does not explain why American, or at least European, politicians did not try to prevent the war in Europe. According to Bordachev, the fact is that Western leaders proceeded from the assumption that there was no way their countries could join the war.

“Given the existence of nuclear deterrence, everyone understands the risk of a general destructive war is very easily separated from all other risks: it is easy to localize and prevent. We can see this now from the behavior of the United States and its allies, who are taking all measures against Russia short of direct intervention in the conflict. That is, they very confidently exclude from the equation a scenario that would pose a danger to themselves – they are not suicidal. But Western politicians do not care at all about how many Ukrainians must die in order for them to achieve their goals,” Bordachev said.

It’s all Fukuyama’s fault

Dmitry Suslov, the deputy director for research at the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy (CFDP) and deputy director of the Center for Comprehensive European and International Studies of the Faculty of World Economy and International Affairs of the National Research University – Higher School of Economics (NRU HSE), believes there is a different reason why the actions of politicians deviate so much from what the expert community prescribes.

It’s not that Western politicians refuse to listen to foreign policy analysts – they listen to the wrong ones.

“There was no unity among the experts in the West, no consensus at all. It was mainly the foreign policy realists from the US and Europe that had warned about the dangers of expanding NATO. The problem was, after the end of the Cold War, the realists’ influence in the Western foreign policy establishment has diminished significantly,” Suslov told RT.

According to him, once the Cold War ended, the liberal viewpoint quickly gained popularity among Western expert circles and policymakers. “The idea was, first off, that Russia was in a state of impending and irreversible decline, and that it wouldn’t dare challenge the West in any shape or form. It was believed that Russia would eventually fall in line and join the ‘right side of history’ (from the West’s point of view), would fit into the NATO-centric paradigm in Europe and take on a subordinate position on the sidelines of global politics. This was the vision espoused by liberals and neoconservatives, and it clearly dominated over the realists’ position,” he said.

This only seemed natural. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, many had the feeling that the balance of power and the previous patterns of international relations suddenly became obsolete. Now, they thought, everything would be different – international relations would be guided by a brand-new set of considerations, while those of the realists, along with their notions of geopolitics, would fade away into obscurity.

The ‘end of history’, a concept advocated by Francis Fukuyama in the 1990s, gained a lot of traction during this period. It is well known that Fukuyama’s interpretation of this idea had a powerful influence on George W. Bush and his foreign policy. In his book titled ‘The End of History and the Last Man’, he announced that the age of ideological confrontation, authoritarianism, revolutions, and war was finally over, as all states would eventually embrace liberal democracy modeled after the United States.

Fukuyama is now making predictions about the outcome of the current conflict in Ukraine. He believes that military defeat for Russia in Ukraine is imminent and will result in China not daring to invade Taiwan. This, according to Fukuyama, will revive the spirit of 1989, which will capture people’s hearts and bring the world back to the path towards the ‘end of history’.

The predator senses weakness

Truth be told, Russia gave Western politicians reasons to doubt the assessments of realist experts. 

“In the 1990s and even early 2000s, Russia appeared weak. It didn’t stand determinately and clearly enough against expansion of NATO; moreover, it made the expansion even easier to some extent,” Suslov said.

In his opinion, the very existence of the Founding Act signed in 1997 convinced the West that Moscow was ready to turn a blind eye to NATO expansion. 

This document determined Russia-NATO relations over the past 25 years, until the start of Russia’s attack on Ukraine. It reaffirmed the commitment of the parties to the inherent right of European nations “to choose the means to ensure their own security.” 

For years, this formula was used by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg to explain why Russia did not have a say in Georgia or Ukraine joining the alliance.

“Indeed, Russia had secured several important provisions in that document, but at the same time, it gave a signal that a deal on expansion is possible. In general, the act showed Russia wouldn’t wage war against NATO or acceding states,” Suslov said.

The Founding Act gave the alliance legal grounds for admitting new members, but what really assured Western politicians that Russia was ready to allow expansion was the accession of the former Soviet republics of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia.

Curiously enough, when this discussion was just beginning in 1997, Joe Biden, then-chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, argued that Russia could go along with NATO accepting Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic into the military bloc, but the Baltic states were where it would draw the line. 

“I think the one place where the greatest consternation would be caused in the short-term would be to admit the Baltic states now,” the future US president said.

In the end, the Baltic states were admitted into the alliance. They received invitations in 2002, and in 2004 became full members. 

“How did Russia react? It did nothing again. It really stood up against expansion only when NATO tried to extend to Georgia and Ukraine. That’s why we ended up where we are now,” Suslov said.

What next?

Reality has clearly changed. The current dynamics of relations between Russia and the West leaves no ambiguity about NATO’s potential advance toward Russia’s borders.

According to Suslov, this, along with other trends observed in contemporary international relations, will strengthen the position of the realists.

“There is no doubt we are now witnessing a resurgence of the realist school. This has to do not only with the conflict in Ukraine, but also with the confrontation between the US and China. Once again, we see that the shifts in the balance of power on the globe are the single most important factor – it is what sets everything in motion and shapes the international system. It is a new shift in the balance of global powers that dictates the state of relations between nations: China has become too strong, and the US is trying to contain it,” he said.

Suslov argues that the current patterns in US-China relations “spell doom for the liberals and hold a lot of promise for realists. It is quite likely that, in the near future, Western politicians will start making decisions based on advice from the latter and not the former. If so, then what do the realists propose as their solution to the ongoing conflict in Europe?"

“The realists argue that the US should recognize Ukraine’s geopolitical losses as ‘status quo’, stop supplying Kiev with lethal weapons and even pressure Zelensky into signing a deal with Moscow under which Ukraine would remain independent but neutral.”

Following these recommendations would help the US solve two important problems, Suslov said. First of all, Washington could stop further Russia-China rapprochement unfavorable to the US. Secondly, it would de-escalate US-Russia tensions by preventing direct military confrontation between the nations.

“Realists believe this kind of confrontation is on the table if Washington continues the economic war against Moscow,” he said.   

In any case, it’s too early to dismiss negative scenarios as unlikely and trust in the good judgment of politicians. According to Bordachev, “Not once in the history of humankind have politicians listened to experts. And there are no hints this could change today.”

Alexey Gryazev is a Russian journalist, focusing on politics, philosophy and war. he US has further expanded – what was already considered to be – an unprecedented list of sanctions against Russia amid Moscow’s ongoing military offensive in Ukraine. On Thursday, Washington targeted parliamentarians, dozens of defense enterprises, and a number of individuals, including the CEO of Russia’s biggest bank.

[frankfurter + 562]

9 hours ago, surrept33 said:

talking about fantasies, imagine the clueless (in fact, brainwashed) Chinese people believing InfoWars/Alex Jones as objective REALITY. but of course that's very useful for the CCP to make sure normal citizens are fine with a totalitarian state. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-social-media-Global-Times-article-COVID-coronavirus-ukraine-laboratories-2022-3

Social-media users in China are obsessing over a conspiracy theory claiming the COVID-19 virus was produced by US-linked laboratories in Ukraine

The buzz among social-media users in China stems from an article published by the state-linked Global Times titled "Research verifies that COVID was manufactured by an American company.

 

Social-media users in China have been obsessing over a conspiracy theory claiming the COVID-19 coronavirus was produced by US-linked laboratories in Ukraine.

The buzz centers on an article titled "Research verifies that COVID was manufactured by an American company," published by China's state-linked tabloid Global Times on Wednesday.

A topic thread on China's Twitter-like Weibo platform discussing the article went viral early Wednesday. As of press time, it had been viewed 1.67 billion times and spawned 292,000 comment threads.

The Global Times article, which was republished by 45 other Chinese outlets, purported that Global Times had come "one step closer to the truth" regarding the virus' origins. It also claimed the Russian army had "found a lot of evidence in Ukraine" of US-linked laboratories producing biological weapons.

The article also claimed there was "heavy evidence" of Russia having found documents bearing the "signatures of US government officials and the seals of relevant US government departments."

"When the truth is revealed, America will fall! When the truth is completely revealed, let us wait and see!" the article said.

The Global Times did not provide visual or documented evidence in the article to back up its claims.

Many Weibo users expressed their outrage over the article, with some calling for the US to be investigated and others suggesting US officials should be executed as "war criminals."

It is unclear where and when this new theory about the coronavirus' origins was seeded.

It appears to have its roots in a wild proposition touted by the American conspiracy-theory site Infowars and spread by Russian and Chinese news outlets that the US is operating biological-weapons laboratories in Ukrainian cities that have come under attack from Russia. Rumors about these "secret US bio-weapons labs" spread like wildfire on Weibo, with the media and social-media commenters seizing upon the topic.

 

 

Well, the facts are: 1/ the USA was first to patent the creation of SARS-CoV; 2/ the USA operates about 300 bio-warfare labs in the world, with 13 labs confirmed and 17 suspected in the Ukraine; 3/ the USA has openly declared China to be its #1 enemy; 4/ the USA has nuclear-armed bases pointed to China, and sails nuclear subs into China waters.

So I am not surprised the Chinese are "on alert".  If a media publishes a story, and receives 1 billion views, and spawns comments, this does not mean 1 billion people believe the story to be irrefutable.

This is entirely opposite from the brainwashed amurcuns, who believed Iraq had WMD based on so-called irrefutable evidence that was never revealed, and who murdered millions of civilians in the name of your fascism.

If the Chinese decide to have a central government, that is their right, just like your right to have your fascist government.  One fact the drugged-up dumbed-down ignorant amurcuns cannot comprehend is both America and China are Republics.  Think about it.