Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 8 hours ago, NickW said: Electrolysis has been around since the 19th century😉 If that tidal plant got built what would you do with 200 Twh of stranded energy? Its 3500km to the nearest large population centres (northern China) that could absorb that sort of energy so transmission as electricity unlikely. 2500 km to Hokkaido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192 July 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: 2500 km to Hokkaido Who cares? You just spent a trillion building a 60km-->100km long dam, somehow a couple billion for the power line is chump change. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Who cares? You just spent a trillion building a 60km-->100km long dam, somehow a couple billion for the power line is chump change. The power line itself, yes. Not the static inverter set in the requisite size, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: 2500 km to Hokkaido Can't see the Japanese wanting to jump on the Russian energy hook......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, NickW said: Can't see the Japanese wanting to jump on the Russian energy hook......... Makes perfect geographic sense. They could also use a conventional gas pipeline, and so do the South Koreans. These are actually inevitable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 12, 2022 2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Who cares? You just spent a trillion building a 60km-->100km long dam, somehow a couple billion for the power line is chump change. More like 20km Has anyone done a serious estimate of the costs? The Tidal barrage in S Korea is about 7km long and cost $560m Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Makes perfect geographic sense. They could also use a conventional gas pipeline, and so do the South Koreans. These are actually inevitable. Neither the South Koreans or Japanese want to be subject to energy blackmail. Ie - agree with us or we cut off the supply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 Just now, NickW said: Neither the South Koreans or Japanese want to be subject to energy blackmail. Ie - agree with us or we cut off the supply. There is no energy blackmail, it is a European invention. The current reduction in the flow rates on the North stream is due to Canada impounding the Siemens compressors during the maintenance. Otherwise, pipeline sales work similar to LNG ones. Don't buy if you don't want any. Both Japan and Korea already buy a lot of Russian LNG and coal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192 July 12, 2022 3 hours ago, NickW said: More like 20km Has anyone done a serious estimate of the costs? The Tidal barrage in S Korea is about 7km long and cost $560m Suggest Google Earth is your friend with the measuring tool. Then open a bathymetric map. Average water depth is over 50m. + you have to get down to bedrock to make a seal. In essence this is an order of magnitude larger than the largest dam in the world and you are working in the ocean. It is why most do NOT recommend trying to build dams for tidal power but rather multitude of other forms such as forms of wiers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Suggest Google Earth is your friend with the measuring tool. Then open a bathymetric map. Average water depth is over 50m. + you have to get down to bedrock to make a seal. In essence this is an order of magnitude larger than the largest dam in the world and you are working in the ocean. It is why most do NOT recommend trying to build dams for tidal power but rather multitude of other forms such as forms of wiers. I did already explain how it works. The dam is to be made from prefab blocks housing turbines, which are loaded with ballast and sank where they need to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 5 hours ago, NickW said: More like 20km Has anyone done a serious estimate of the costs? The Tidal barrage in S Korea is about 7km long and cost $560m Yes, they did. It would be cheaper per installed watt than conventional hydro, which is already cheap. But, somebody got to really need all that hydrogen, which is not a fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 12, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, NickW said: More like 20km Has anyone done a serious estimate of the costs? The Tidal barrage in S Korea is about 7km long and cost $560m The big output dam that he is talking about is the "south site" proposal which is 73km. The smaller and less energetic proposal is the northern site and is 26km. Edited July 12, 2022 by Jay McKinsey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: Yes, they did. It would be cheaper per installed watt than conventional hydro, which is already cheap. But, somebody got to really need all that hydrogen, which is not a fact. Are you sure? According to wiki the proposal for this tech in the Sea of Okhotsk is called Tugur and from what I found is only 6.8GW. Much smaller than either of the Penzhin proposals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Are you sure? According to wiki the proposal for this tech in the Sea of Okhotsk is called Tugur and from what I found is only 6.8GW. Much smaller than either of the Penzhin proposals. It is still just as stranded, though? They have developed a standardized prefab block, containing a widget called the "orthogonal turbine" which has the property of being orientation-independent. https://www.hydropower-dams.com/articles/the-new-orthogonal-turbine-for-tidal-wave-and-low-head-hydropower-plants/ Most of the documentation on it is in Russian, but the general idea of it appears to be similar to those wind turbines that look like eggbeaters and are oriented vertically, if you have ever seen any? It probably does not have to be fully dammed, either. They had some kind of trial with an Australian company called Atlantis, which appears to be in the "tidal stream" business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Are you sure? According to wiki the proposal for this tech in the Sea of Okhotsk is called Tugur and from what I found is only 6.8GW. Much smaller than either of the Penzhin proposals. BTW, if you are into idiotically oversized hydropower projects, the largest conventional one is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inga_dams Got the same problem - nobody in the vicinity needs so much electricity at once. Is also technically relatively cheap, being run of the current? setup. (Whatever they call the one with no head) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 July 12, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: It is still just as stranded, though? They have developed a standardized prefab block, containing a widget called the "orthogonal turbine" which has the property of being orientation-independent. https://www.hydropower-dams.com/articles/the-new-orthogonal-turbine-for-tidal-wave-and-low-head-hydropower-plants/ Most of the documentation on it is in Russian, but the general idea of it appears to be similar to those wind turbines that look like eggbeaters and are oriented vertically, if you have ever seen any? It probably does not have to be fully dammed, either. They had some kind of trial with an Australian company called Atlantis, which appears to be in the "tidal stream" business. Yesterday you said tidal stream was BS. "This "in-stream" tidal without a dam is also obviously BS." Edited July 12, 2022 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Yesterday you said tidal stream was BS. "This "in-stream" tidal without a dam is also obviously BS." It gives you some electricity, but is obviously less than perfectly efficient. I see that it is useful to start producing energy before the location is fully dammed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 July 12, 2022 On 7/10/2022 at 5:11 PM, notsonice said: Incidentally, you will drop the ban eventually????? I bet you Castro thought the US embargo on all things Cuba would end in the 60s...........60 years later not much easing and look at Cuba today............... So very healthy????? Russia is on the path of being the New Cuba....The world has more Oil than you think and with alternatives to gas powered vehicles coming on stream in a breakneck pace...Peak Oil is here and Russias vast oil reserves will never see the surface. Oil in the ground is worthless....oil pumped and with no buyer is worthless....Russia is fast becoming the New Cuba. Enjoy Putin is the new Castro. a documentary or travel log shows how cuba has been.... Free wifi, free housing for government employees, no traffic congestion, they might have done well not known by many due to no news is allowed out or news not in english? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba Castro was empowered to change. Cuba prospered within first 5 years of administration. Shall there was tighter grip instead of total trust and more patriotism instead of individualistic, things might have been very different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,259 DM July 12, 2022 40 minutes ago, specinho said: a documentary or travel log shows how cuba has been.... Free wifi, free housing for government employees, no traffic congestion, they might have done well not known by many due to no news is allowed out or news not in english? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba Castro was empowered to change. Cuba prospered within first 5 years of administration. Shall there was tighter grip instead of total trust and more patriotism instead of individualistic, things might have been very different. and look at Cuba today........Putin sure does look like the new Castro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192 July 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: I did already explain how it works. The dam is to be made from prefab blocks housing turbines, which are loaded with ballast and sank where they need to be. Not a dam. That is at best a weir which means you will only grab a TINY portion of the available energy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192 July 12, 2022 5 hours ago, specinho said: a documentary or travel log shows how cuba has been.... Free wifi, free housing for government employees, no traffic congestion, they might have done well not known by many due to no news is allowed out or news not in english? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba Castro was empowered to change. Cuba prospered within first 5 years of administration. Shall there was tighter grip instead of total trust and more patriotism instead of individualistic, things might have been very different. Pretty hard to have traffic without cars... Nor is a citizen allowed to own a chicken or a cow... It is like Cuba's "free" Health care... Bring your own sheets, antiseptic to clean everything, gauze, and light bulbs otherwise the operation will be done in the dark without any antiseptic.. Of course you can't buy antiseptic, gauze etc, so... Good luck 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Moutchkine + 828 July 13, 2022 10 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Pretty hard to have traffic without cars... Nor is a citizen allowed to own a chicken or a cow... It is like Cuba's "free" Health care... Bring your own sheets, antiseptic to clean everything, gauze, and light bulbs otherwise the operation will be done in the dark without any antiseptic.. Of course you can't buy antiseptic, gauze etc, so... Good luck You are not up-to-date. They do allow privately owned business now. Do I even need to comment on your "light bulb" story? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 13, 2022 14 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Not a dam. That is at best a weir which means you will only grab a TINY portion of the available energy. A barrage is a dam. Its main difference is it works in both directions at a relatively low head. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP July 13, 2022 19 hours ago, specinho said: a documentary or travel log shows how cuba has been.... Free wifi, free housing for government employees, no traffic congestion, they might have done well not known by many due to no news is allowed out or news not in english? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba Castro was empowered to change. Cuba prospered within first 5 years of administration. Shall there was tighter grip instead of total trust and more patriotism instead of individualistic, things might have been very different. Have you ever been to Cuba? The average "house" is a very poor run down shack There are no traffic jams because guess what there are no cars and even if there were the people couldnt afford to buy or run them. To get to work the average person has to walk to an intersection and wait for a government vehicle to stop and take them to their place of work (they have to stop by law). If no government vehicles go by then they just walk back home! the vast majority of vehicles are privately owned coaches taking vacationers to their hotels, they dont have to stop and therefore dont. The only person to benefit from Castro's coup was Castro and he became a billionaire based on Cuba's original wealth and watched his fellow citizens languish in abject poverty until he died! Free wifi haha nobody owns computers, if they work for the government wouldnt you expect that the employees didnt have to pay for the wifi they need to do their job?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192 July 13, 2022 9 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said: You are not up-to-date. They do allow privately owned business now. Do I even need to comment on your "light bulb" story? Lets see; I'll take first hand eye witness reports over dumbo internet troll. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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