How Far Have We Really Gotten With Alternative Energy

[turbguy + 1,535]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:26 AM, notsonice said:

Wonder how his book is going? last I checked he has not sold a copy on the river......Wonder what it cost him to get the book printed????? Lots of vanity press out there who will print anything for a fee

Actually, Amazon publishing prints authors books ON DEMAND (as ordered).

The REAL expense is editing.

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

Spain On Track To Generate 50% Of Its Power From Renewables In 2023

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Spain-On-Track-To-Generate-50-Of-Its-Power-From-Renewables-In-2023.html

Looks like we've come quite a long way in certain countries in answer to the topic question.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Rob Plant

[specinho + 457]

17 hours ago, turbguy said:

Actually, Amazon publishing prints authors books ON DEMAND (as ordered).

The REAL expense is editing.

Really? Thought editing is free before publication. 'o' 'n'

[specinho + 457]

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Spain On Track To Generate 50% Of Its Power From Renewables In 2023

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Spain-On-Track-To-Generate-50-Of-Its-Power-From-Renewables-In-2023.html

Looks like we've come quite a long way in certain countries in answer to the topic question.

Video from world economy forum shows that they can rely fully on renewable energy ....... For a successful 5 hours per year...... already.... 'o' '-'

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

16 minutes ago, specinho said:

Video from world economy forum shows that they can rely fully on renewable energy ....... For a successful 5 hours per year...... already.... 'o' '-'

Wheres this video that states that about Spain?

Some evidence might be helpful!

If Spain are generating 50% of their total required electricity from renewables then I think its a lot more than 5 hours per year , dont ya think?

Its pretty sunny in Spain most of the year and they have CSP plants with liquid salt to power the steam turbine through the night.

They are also going to build this

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/22/spanish-developer-plans-1-gw-solar-plant-coupled-to-80-mw-of-storage-100-mw-electrolyzer/

Christ think about what youre posting Speccy

[turbguy + 1,535]

6 hours ago, specinho said:

Really? Thought editing is free before publication. 'o' 'n'

Really.

You look for a professional editor, and see what they cost...

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

7 hours ago, specinho said:

Really? Thought editing is free before publication. 'o' 'n'

Haha theres nothing free in this world Speccy!

Would you edit a book for nothing?

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:29 AM, specinho said:

Video from world economy forum shows that they can rely fully on renewable energy ....... For a successful 5 hours per year...... already.... 'o' '-'

Not-so-sunny Netherlands with 120TWh (electric) power consumption per year, is now 40% renewable on average. Note that the country has no mountains and therefore no hydropower. It is only wind, solar and locally sourced biomass. 

Exactly because the country has this biomass, it can level out its renewable energy output in line with the consumption. Total installed capacity of renewable is now approx. 150% of maximum consumption. Sometimes there is too much power (sunny & windy days), but outside of those, the output is well in line with consumption. Capacity is currently growing at 20% year on year.

The average capacity factor of the renewable system is some 27%. This number is remarkably constant on a month by month basis, but not on shorter duration. 

Periods of 100% renewable power are short (2-3 hours at a time, typically around noon), but happen more and more often. Last week, it happened 6 out of 7 days.

This leads to the question whether we should start investing in massive energy storage, for the intermediate time period of a couple of days. The country consumes 300 GWh per day, so the storage would need to be in the order of 1TWh. With batteries, this is going to be very hard and/or expensive. Currently Tesla quotes $100 per kWh as a target, which would still mean an investment of $100bn to build sufficient storage. That is about 5 times as much as what we have invested in renewables so far.

Alternatives would be hydrogen, syngas or other gaseous compounds. The issue here is that the generation of this gas would be relatively cheap, but to build temporary hydrogen power plants for occasional usage and with a capacity for the whole country would be probably even more expensive than the battery solution.

There is no other way than a continent-wide solution, where each country would have sufficient capacity to produce more than enough renewable for itself. The continent is big enough to have 4 weather systems at any point in time, of which 3 would be supportive of renewable power generation and 1 would be energy starved. In winter, the North Sea region would export wind energy, and in summer, southern Europe would export solar energy. No massive storage needed.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Jeroen Goudswaard

[Jeroen Goudswaard + 61]

On 12/6/2022 at 10:47 PM, Ron Wagner said:

Are you figuring on ideal sunshine, lack of dust, snow cover, latitude etc?

Latitude (and average cloud cover) is part of this average. Dust is not as big a deal as everyone thinks - it tends to rain off. I now have quite a layer of pollen on the panels, but efficiency has only dropped by 5%. However, in desert-like climates, it is a big design challenge. Snow cover is a killer, so make sure the panels have sufficient incline. And sunshine is important - don't put your solar panel under a tree. 

[Ron Wagner + 702]

12 hours ago, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

Not-so-sunny Netherlands with 120TWh (electric) power consumption per year, is now 40% renewable on average. Note that the country has no mountains and therefore no hydropower. It is only wind, solar and locally sourced biomass. 

Exactly because the country has this biomass, it can level out its renewable energy output in line with the consumption. Total installed capacity of renewable is now approx. 150% of maximum consumption. Sometimes there is too much power (sunny & windy days), but outside of those, the output is well in line with consumption. Capacity is currently growing at 20% year on year.

The average capacity factor of the renewable system is some 27%. This number is remarkably constant on a month by month basis, but not on shorter duration. 

Periods of 100% renewable power are short (2-3 hours at a time, typically around noon), but happen more and more often. Last week, it happened 6 out of 7 days.

This leads to the question whether we should start investing in massive energy storage, for the intermediate time period of a couple of days. The country consumes 300 GWh per day, so the storage would need to be in the order of 1TWh. With batteries, this is going to be very hard and/or expensive. Currently Tesla quotes $100 per kWh as a target, which would still mean an investment of $100bn to build sufficient storage. That is about 5 times as much as what we have invested in renewables so far.

Alternatives would be hydrogen, syngas or other gaseous compounds. The issue here is that the generation of this gas would be relatively cheap, but to build temporary hydrogen power plants for occasional usage and with a capacity for the whole country would be probably even more expensive than the battery solution.

There is no other way than a continent-wide solution, where each country would have sufficient capacity to produce more than enough renewable for itself. The continent is big enough to have 4 weather systems at any point in time, of which 3 would be supportive of renewable power generation and 1 would be energy starved. In winter, the North Sea region would export wind energy, and in summer, southern Europe would export solar energy. No massive storage needed.

 

Energy transmission is a lot easier and less expensive in populated areas of Europe than in most areas of the United States. 

[specinho + 457]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:28 PM, Rob Plant said:

Haha theres nothing free in this world Speccy!

Would you edit a book for nothing?

Planttee, normal procedure used to be this:

If a publisher thinks one's book is worthy, or profitable, they will help you get it done and pay a fee of copyright and loyalty on each book sold, yes? 

Or, they would be a co-author, if they have something they feel suitable to be added to enriched it. 

Outside of publishing house might be different. 

[specinho + 457]

 

20 hours ago, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

Not-so-sunny Netherlands with 120TWh (electric) power consumption per year, is now 40% renewable on average. Note that the country has no mountains and therefore no hydropower. It is only wind, solar and locally sourced biomass. 

Exactly because the country has this biomass, it can level out its renewable energy output in line with the consumption. Total installed capacity of renewable is now approx. 150% of maximum consumption. Sometimes there is too much power (sunny & windy days), but outside of those, the output is well in line with consumption. Capacity is currently growing at 20% year on year.

The average capacity factor of the renewable system is some 27%. This number is remarkably constant on a month by month basis, but not on shorter duration. 

Periods of 100% renewable power are short (2-3 hours at a time, typically around noon), but happen more and more often. Last week, it happened 6 out of 7 days.

This leads to the question whether we should start investing in massive energy storage, for the intermediate time period of a couple of days. The country consumes 300 GWh per day, so the storage would need to be in the order of 1TWh. With batteries, this is going to be very hard and/or expensive. Currently Tesla quotes $100 per kWh as a target, which would still mean an investment of $100bn to build sufficient storage. That is about 5 times as much as what we have invested in renewables so far.

Alternatives would be hydrogen, syngas or other gaseous compounds. The issue here is that the generation of this gas would be relatively cheap, but to build temporary hydrogen power plants for occasional usage and with a capacity for the whole country would be probably even more expensive than the battery solution.

There is no other way than a continent-wide solution, where each country would have sufficient capacity to produce more than enough renewable for itself. The continent is big enough to have 4 weather systems at any point in time, of which 3 would be supportive of renewable power generation and 1 would be energy starved. In winter, the North Sea region would export wind energy, and in summer, southern Europe would export solar energy. No massive storage needed.

 

Thank you for informing.

The trend, if possible, might have been to reduce dependency on limited metals required when you are thinking of massive storage thingy or the like.

Posted an old double mill image used to be popular in Netherland in one of the discussion about design of modern wind turbine and its efficiency. That image showed that old wind turbine has rectangular blades closed to the ground. Beneath it, there is a riverine water running turbine to enhance its strength. Hence, it is called a "double mill"..... Running water can be created by design in enclosed or opened system. 

And an image about how a mule that was used in a flour or grain mill, can be modified to generate electricity... 

There is another suggestion using cyclical mechanical force. This idea was based on the fact that weather, wind, sunlight are highly unpredictable. This problem is becoming prominent when global warming is mentioned by little red foxy to have negative impact on global wind belt system and usual nutrient redistribution by current. These impact bring about wind draught, lower fishery yield etc.

The modification could minimize reliance on unforeseeable instability of wind supply. For example, building en enclosed turbine so that wind received could be recycled to turn the turbine either by part of the electricity generated or merely by force of gradience... 

Building solar system in not so sunny location might give you two third of the year with no power? 'o' '-' +~+

Cloudy sky and panel under a tree could still power some panels. It  depends on the sensitivity of panel made and amount of electricity required or usage intended.

( P/s: Intensity of sun can be felt under the shade of a tree with piercing pain. Cloudy sky can provide letric to solar powered cartoon that moves butt left and right in a dancing mode or decorative plant that moves)... 

If there is manmade UV, or infrared, could you bring this light to power your panels instead of waiting for the sun to show up? '-'

How is the technology that turns heat into electricity coming? This suggestion was made when the debate was on reflecting light to generate letric in a desert somewhere...

In brief, the theory was: letric is used to generate signal that could detect body heat, could this process be reversed i.e turn unwanted heat in the surrounding into electricity? '-'

Edited June 10, 2023 by specinho

[specinho + 457]

The image... 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by specinho

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:27 AM, specinho said:

they will help you get it done and pay a fee of copyright and loyalty on each book sold, yes? 

So you agree then that they dont do it for nothing!

[specinho + 457]

Wooaa... Anybody has seen this:

 

This project shows that magnetic field is formed by moving electrons... Readily intercepted by conductor to generate electricity... 

So could be sunlight?

A sun radiation has alpha ray, beta ray, gamma ray. Pardon my memory....... One of them is electron, right? 😳

As mentioned in assumption earlier, intercept sunlight with conductor or concentrate it  with magnet would produce electricity? 😯

Or do we intercept electron from earth magnetic field? '-'

Test it out for me please... 🌞

 

[turbguy + 1,535]

6 hours ago, specinho said:

Wooaa... Anybody has seen this:

 

This project shows that magnetic field is formed by moving electrons... Readily intercepted by conductor to generate electricity... 

So could be sunlight?

A sun radiation has alpha ray, beta ray, gamma ray. Pardon my memory....... One of them is electron, right? 😳

As mentioned in assumption earlier, intercept sunlight with conductor or concentrate it  with magnet would produce electricity? 😯

Or do we intercept electron from earth magnetic field? '-'

Test it out for me please... 🌞

 

Free?

Where did the maker get those "free" components?

SOMEBODY paid for them, either with sweat or cash.

Other than that, beta particles are electrons. They (and alpha particles) do not reach the earth's surface (thank goodness) due to our magnetic field and atmospheric absorption.  They won't even penetrate a plastic bottle.  Gamma rays will pass the magnetic field, but typically interact with the atmosphere and produce "showers" of secondary particles, detectable at the surface.

[TailingsPond + 671]

On 6/15/2023 at 1:46 AM, specinho said:

 

As mentioned in assumption earlier, intercept sunlight with conductor or concentrate it  with magnet would produce electricity? 😯

 

Solar panels already exist.  Lots of very smart people work on developing the best way to convert "solar radiation" into electricity.

[specinho + 457]

On 6/15/2023 at 10:27 PM, turbguy said:

Free?

Where did the maker get those "free" components?

SOMEBODY paid for them, either with sweat or cash.

Other than that, beta particles are electrons. They (and alpha particles) do not reach the earth's surface (thank goodness) due to our magnetic field and atmospheric absorption.  They won't even penetrate a plastic bottle.  Gamma rays will pass the magnetic field, but typically interact with the atmosphere and produce "showers" of secondary particles, detectable at the surface.

You might have misunderstood. "Free electricity generator" means producing electricity without connecting to the grid or paying any money on fuel or bill.

Thanks for the info. 😊

I am not sure if electron is blocked. When we say ' speed of light', we assume Energy radiated out, together with alpha, beta, gamma ray in great force due to chemical reaction. When they travel across millions of miles before reaching earth, would energy be cooled or lost along the galaxy? Would charged particles be interfered by asteroid, planet or such?

If we have seen a race car test run in a movie or so, we might be familiar that the higher the speed of an object, the easier it is to be diverted or flung out by obstacle in the path. 

But the light travels in straight line towards the earth. Would this suggest they are attracted to a specific direction, undeterred by things along the path in the galaxy? 

If friction produces heat, could we deduce that friction between electrons travel in super speed and the outerspace sustaining the heat radiated out from the sun? 

It comes straight to earth because it is attracted by earth magnetic field?

If speed = mass x velocity, how do they determine velocity hitting earth? Probably having equipment placed on the ground receiving signal from whatever hit?

If the assumption is correct, then that something must have reached earth crust, not blocked outside the atmosphere?

If Charged particle easier to be detected, helium and gamma ray might not be the target but beta ray? 

 

[specinho + 457]

9 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Solar panels already exist.  Lots of very smart people work on developing the best way to convert "solar radiation" into electricity.

If not mistaken, i might have mentioned the difference somewhere. Pardon me if incorrect:

1. Solar panel - stimulate energy change in electrons of silicon ( semi-conductor, conduct electron only in molten phase?). This jump is expected to create a flow of electricity. 

2. Conductor of sunlight - passive flow of electricity by conducting it ( most likely with metal or magnet). 

Saw an archive video, made in the year 1966, from BBC yesterday showing a humanoid maid predicted to be at work 10 years later in 1976. From this, there is a strong reason to believe we are not progressing but regressing.

Likewise with solar panel. Created more than a century ago. It has progressed to promote UV as the main energy source for solar panel... This is based on the fact that neither the scientific panelists nor the students and inventors know UV is usually blocked by ozone... Unless there is a hole, in the south pole... That comes and goes... 😯😓

Copying existing models can only bring us so far, with much limitation, low efficiency and such. Continue further with UV, we probably could expect disaster, than solution... 'n' >.<

[turbguy + 1,535]

11 hours ago, specinho said:

You might have misunderstood. "Free electricity generator" means producing electricity without connecting to the grid or paying any money on fuel or bill.

Thanks for the info. 😊

I am not sure if electron is blocked. When we say ' speed of light', we assume Energy radiated out, together with alpha, beta, gamma ray in great force due to chemical reaction. When they travel across millions of miles before reaching earth, would energy be cooled or lost along the galaxy? Would charged particles be interfered by asteroid, planet or such?

If we have seen a race car test run in a movie or so, we might be familiar that the higher the speed of an object, the easier it is to be diverted or flung out by obstacle in the path. 

But the light travels in straight line towards the earth. Would this suggest they are attracted to a specific direction, undeterred by things along the path in the galaxy? 

If friction produces heat, could we deduce that friction between electrons travel in super speed and the outerspace sustaining the heat radiated out from the sun? 

It comes straight to earth because it is attracted by earth magnetic field?

If speed = mass x velocity, how do they determine velocity hitting earth? Probably having equipment placed on the ground receiving signal from whatever hit?

If the assumption is correct, then that something must have reached earth crust, not blocked outside the atmosphere?

If Charged particle easier to be detected, helium and gamma ray might not be the target but beta ray? 

 

Let me end this tale by suggesting you take several years of elementary physics.  Any particle with rest mass can never achieve the speed of light in a vacuum (although, they can get close to it).  That applies to alpha and beta particles.

Gamma rays (VERY energetic photons) DO travel at the speed of light.  Due to special relativity, time does not exist for a photon.  From their "frame of reference", they are everywhere along the path of travel, at the same time.  And, they don't travel along a straight line in a classical plane geometry sense.  Observed from OUR frame of reference, they travel along a straight spacetime line.

Nothing is "for free".  The Laws of Thermodynamics says so.

They are:

#1, You cannot ever win the game.

#2, You cannot ever break even.

#3, You cannot ever get out of the game.

Edited June 18, 2023 by turbguy

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

On 1/7/2023 at 11:04 AM, Ron Wagner said:

Correct, however energy needs continue to grow even though we now, mainly use very energy efficient light bulbs. EV's will continue to increase energy needs. Blackouts are common due to increased power needs and the inability of wind energy to meet peak needs. Batteries are too expensive so natural gas should be relied on as needed, it is very clean. 

Don't forget that electricity is only part of the total power needed so total energy should always be the real gauge of our energy needs. https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/faq/what-are-major-sources-and-users-energy-united-states

Meanwhile in a place called reality the US electricity demand dropped by 4%YoY from Q1 2022 to Q1 2023. Those energy efficient light bulbs are kicking butt and EVs have not increased demand. Nor are blackouts common because of increased power needs.

[Boat + 1,323]

On 6/9/2023 at 7:41 AM, Jeroen Goudswaard said:

Not-so-sunny Netherlands with 120TWh (electric) power consumption per year, is now 40% renewable on average. Note that the country has no mountains and therefore no hydropower. It is only wind, solar and locally sourced biomass. 

Exactly because the country has this biomass, it can level out its renewable energy output in line with the consumption. Total installed capacity of renewable is now approx. 150% of maximum consumption. Sometimes there is too much power (sunny & windy days), but outside of those, the output is well in line with consumption. Capacity is currently growing at 20% year on year.

The average capacity factor of the renewable system is some 27%. This number is remarkably constant on a month by month basis, but not on shorter duration. 

Periods of 100% renewable power are short (2-3 hours at a time, typically around noon), but happen more and more often. Last week, it happened 6 out of 7 days.

This leads to the question whether we should start investing in massive energy storage, for the intermediate time period of a couple of days. The country consumes 300 GWh per day, so the storage would need to be in the order of 1TWh. With batteries, this is going to be very hard and/or expensive. Currently Tesla quotes $100 per kWh as a target, which would still mean an investment of $100bn to build sufficient storage. That is about 5 times as much as what we have invested in renewables so far.

Alternatives would be hydrogen, syngas or other gaseous compounds. The issue here is that the generation of this gas would be relatively cheap, but to build temporary hydrogen power plants for occasional usage and with a capacity for the whole country would be probably even more expensive than the battery solution.

There is no other way than a continent-wide solution, where each country would have sufficient capacity to produce more than enough renewable for itself. The continent is big enough to have 4 weather systems at any point in time, of which 3 would be supportive of renewable power generation and 1 would be energy starved. In winter, the North Sea region would export wind energy, and in summer, southern Europe would export solar energy. No massive storage needed.

 

Battery installation might be better to spread out over time. Once initial demand is caught up from new battery factories and supply chains get built out, the price of batteries should be cut in 1/2. A couple of estimates guess around 4-5 years. The grid has to compete with cars so that’s a dynamic that’s hard to predict. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

US coal use in Q1 reached a new Q1 low, well  below solar + wind.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Jay McKinsey

[specinho + 457]

On 6/19/2023 at 4:25 AM, turbguy said:

Let me end this tale by suggesting you take several years of elementary physics.  Any particle with rest mass can never achieve the speed of light in a vacuum (although, they can get close to it).  That applies to alpha and beta particles.

Gamma rays (VERY energetic photons) DO travel at the speed of light.  Due to special relativity, time does not exist for a photon.  From their "frame of reference", they are everywhere along the path of travel, at the same time.  And, they don't travel along a straight line in a classical plane geometry sense.  Observed from OUR frame of reference, they travel along a straight spacetime line.

Nothing is "for free".  The Laws of Thermodynamics says so.

They are:

#1, You cannot ever win the game.

#2, You cannot ever break even.

#3, You cannot ever get out of the game.

You too might need to refresh your basic... 🙂

1. Assuming rest mass is something not moving... alpha, beta, gamma and things are pushed out in super explosive force. They are pushed to move, yes? 

 

2. In a vacuum, a presumed state of no friction, no resistance, an object would be travelling at its initial speed till reaching destination, without being slowed to a halt. Particularly for less obstructed invisible  particles like electron or ray... on a guided trail. 

Why do you assume energy package photon is the only thing matters? Why haven't they gotten cooled under subzero temperature in the outerspace? They are wrapped within an insulator?

Why couldn't gamma be something smaller than electron with high penetrating capability due to its decicron size? 

3. Watched a documentary on how the traveller lamented  missing polar light show. It was reported gloomy and  raining during the day...

Saw another clip on aureola yesterday capturing the changes of light over the sky. A deduction is formed...

i) imagine an orangy red sky in the morning or evening... Light is believed to have scattered by water vapour and dust gathered.

Imagine polar light... The colour display is in a sequence of light green- blue- purplish in one definite direction... Most likely in days where there is sufficient water vapour in the sky ( the video shown thicker normal white cloud in the background).

After rain, the cloud is gone. Or, with thick cloud, light can not be scattered. 

If this assumption is true, then, polar light is probably merely a phenomenon of light scattering effect by water vapour, not interaction of electrons or smaller particles with earth?

ii) Recalling an incidence .... Saw a rainbow 🌈 over the sky in the evening, when UK captured the same rainbow near 11 a.m., the day when queen met her Lord and Prince Phillips. This might indicate we could be seeing the same piece of sky from different locations on earth at different time zone caused by the same sunlight.

Put this in another scenario..... while it is day time over the east, the same  light is radiating through the night sky in the west. This sunlight is being scattered in the night sky of the west forming polar light, starting from  light green colour, in polar zone. 

iii) if this is true, then those electromagnetic particles reaching the earth could have been absorbed, not repelled. And play no part in forming polar light...?

Co-own the world your aim with your kind who are on your payroll and begging to use your connection? Do not overdone on the innocent and ignorant... wrap it up with a changed strategy.. excluding it... 

Edited June 21, 2023 by specinho

[Rob Plant + 2,747]

To go back on topic

‘Nuclear Diesel’ Could Become A Gamechanger In Energy Markets

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Nuclear-Diesel-Could-Become-A-Gamechanger-In-Energy-Markets.html

 

Good news for SMR developers, good news for legacy ICE vehicles and a massive reduction in shipping and aviation industry pollution as well.