BlackTortoise + 103 CM July 16, 2018 With the growth of electric cars has come a flood of used batteries that is set to skyrocket in the next five years.The first batches of batteries from electric and hybrid vehicles are hitting retirement age, yet they aren’t bound for landfills. This year about 55,000 used battery packs were removed from electric cars as the cars' packs reach their 10-year lifespan. That is leading to new efforts to reuse batteries before they need to recycled. The question of how to dispose of all these used batteries is becoming critical. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Varga + 123 AV July 16, 2018 Tesla has said on previous earnings calls that they plan to have a 100% closed loop for their battery packs in the near future, whatever near future means according to Musk. https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad Kovalenko + 115 VK July 16, 2018 I would be worried about the cost effectiveness of the idea. It could easily be decades before a process to recycle the components 100% became economically viable for the company to commit to the idea. Tesla shareholders would probably vote to focus on refining their current tech and nailing down manufacturing before exploring new processes that could be more expensive. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, BlackTortoise said: With the growth of electric cars has come a flood of used batteries that is set to skyrocket in the next five years.The first batches of batteries from electric and hybrid vehicles are hitting retirement age, yet they aren’t bound for landfills. This year about 55,000 used battery packs were removed from electric cars as the cars' packs reach their 10-year lifespan. That is leading to new efforts to reuse batteries before they need to recycled. The question of how to dispose of all these used batteries is becoming critical. Already been resolved. The batteries can have a second life as stationary storage. Take a Nissan Leaf - the Battery degrades from 30kwh to 15kwh. The battery is replaced but still has a lot of function for stationary storage. These can be converted for home / small business use Bulked together and used to provide short term storage for the grid. Once there have reached their true end of life there should be enough to create the economy of scale to build recycling facilities. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stormysaga + 62 AB July 17, 2018 GM and BMW are also working to develop a market for the battery packs powering energy grids. Lithium-ion car and bus batteries can collect and discharge electricity for another seven to 10 years after being taken off the roads and stripped from chassis. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JB1 + 3 jb July 17, 2018 Economics of battery cars seem to be taking a holiday. When will they do true incremental analysis from the electricity supply course through distribution to the battery charge station. Incremental capital cost not considered as well as the fact that the all utility users are bearing the cost for the battery car owners. Kind of like the phony analysis of solar energy panels. The US taxpayer is funding their neighbors lower utility cost. Subsidies unfair! Germany paying 3 times our electricity cost for their ridiculous policy decisions on scrap nuclear and make it up with solar and wind mills. How many sunny days in Germany and what is the intensity of the sun in Germany at its latitude? 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peelstick + 4 PB July 17, 2018 So far as know, lithium cannot be recycled and is as undesirable as nuclear waste. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 July 19, 2018 The reuse of electric vehicle batteries seems highly speculative to me. I would like to see it work but they eventually need to be disposed of somehow. We will know soon. Someone knows already. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 19, 2018 On 7/17/2018 at 7:25 PM, Peelstick said: So far as know, lithium cannot be recycled and is as undesirable as nuclear waste. 🤣 1. Yes it can. Its a more complicated process and the supply is currently insufficient to give it the appropriate economy of scale but yes they can be recycled. 2. If you don't want to recycle it just exposure it to oxygen and Co2 and it will rapid turn into a salt 3. Lithium Carbonate is pretty harmless 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 19, 2018 4 hours ago, ronwagn said: The reuse of electric vehicle batteries seems highly speculative to me. I would like to see it work but they eventually need to be disposed of somehow. We will know soon. Someone knows already. Its not speculative - its already being done. At present its at a fairly small scale demo plant as the supply of batteries is limited. Daimler have built a demo plant which stores 13 MWH https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/daimler-worlds-largest-2nd-use-battery-storage-starting/ Hyundai have built a 1 MW demo plant https://www.greenbiz.com/article/final-stop-ev-batteries-hyundai-kia-toyota-nissan-and-bmw-grid As have Renault https://insideevs.com/renault-develops-energy-storage-from-used-batteries-with-connected-energy/ As have Toyota https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150512005740/en/Toyota-Flips-Switch-Sustainable-Power-Yellowstone-National 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW July 19, 2018 On 7/17/2018 at 6:22 PM, JB1 said: Economics of battery cars seem to be taking a holiday. When will they do true incremental analysis from the electricity supply course through distribution to the battery charge station. Incremental capital cost not considered as well as the fact that the all utility users are bearing the cost for the battery car owners. Kind of like the phony analysis of solar energy panels. The US taxpayer is funding their neighbors lower utility cost. Subsidies unfair! Germany paying 3 times our electricity cost for their ridiculous policy decisions on scrap nuclear and make it up with solar and wind mills. How many sunny days in Germany and what is the intensity of the sun in Germany at its latitude? If I own an Ev and charge from the grid paying the same price as everyone else how is that cost being passed onto other utility users? In most cases I would charge at night so I'm off peak and not placing any demand on the system to build additional capacity. Infact I am utilising capacity that would otherwise sit idle so I'm doing the utility a favour. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 July 19, 2018 Power redundancy costs money but is a very good thing if it is localized to protect from EMP electromagnetic pulse flares (natural and military). More power is eventually needed anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites