Are Trump's steel tariffs working? Seems they are!

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 minutes ago, jaycee said:

lol looks like the America first policy is working just fine the article is not available in Europe

Get yourself a VPN and change to a U.S. server.  I would recommend most people get themselves a high rated VPN anyway as a good security layer and to keep the "sniffers" away from your business.

[HermitMunster + 146]

The tariffs were a bad idea. As were the tax cuts and the spending bill. 

[Mike Marcellus + 157]

18 hours ago, HermitMunster said:

The tariffs were a bad idea. As were the tax cuts and the spending bill. 

Few things we can all agree on, but I think there's consensus that everyone will want to pay the smallest tax bill they are allowed.  With a corporate tax rate of 21% vs. 35% We will see some corporate money come back and more will never leave. 

Here's where I inject a little opinion, in as much as I don't have any proof, just my life experience.  Money in the bank get's spent.  It might get replaced back into savings, 100%, or not, but it does get spent on things like a new roof, a week end trip, an upgraded more costly appliance, tool, toy, or gift.  However if I don't have ready access to my money, it's locked up, slightly hidden, off shores, and compounded by my own laziness  ...Well, that effort to spend money just doesn't happen. Instead, I'll  just stay home, keep the refrigerator I already own, and be content. AND just like I'd rather pay MY kid to wash the dog in stead of someone I don't know,  corporations act similarly. (We benefit by consuming, and the more the consumption happens here at home, enriching employees/my kids, helping the local economy, the better.  This lines up with Mthebold's recent post of agreeing to pay even more for an overall better life.  This is wealth that should stay home.  This makes it easy for U. S. corporations to do that.

But wait, it get's better.  The United states will now attract foreign money.  Better than the rest of the world we offer social stability, a great consumer's market and, now with a progressive, "business friendly" tax,  why wouldn't you want to set up shop in the U. S.?

I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make him drink.  However, I can run him around the lake a few times till he's thirsty.  I believe it's good fiscal policy in action.

-Mike

[HermitMunster + 146]

On 7/31/2018 at 10:59 AM, Mike Marcellus said:

Few things we can all agree on, but I think there's consensus that everyone will want to pay the smallest tax bill they are allowed.  With a corporate tax rate of 21% vs. 35% We will see some corporate money come back and more will never leave. 

Here's where I inject a little opinion, in as much as I don't have any proof, just my life experience.  Money in the bank get's spent.  It might get replaced back into savings, 100%, or not, but it does get spent on things like a new roof, a week end trip, an upgraded more costly appliance, tool, toy, or gift.  However if I don't have ready access to my money, it's locked up, slightly hidden, off shores, and compounded by my own laziness  ...Well, that effort to spend money just doesn't happen. Instead, I'll  just stay home, keep the refrigerator I already own, and be content. AND just like I'd rather pay MY kid to wash the dog in stead of someone I don't know,  corporations act similarly. (We benefit by consuming, and the more the consumption happens here at home, enriching employees/my kids, helping the local economy, the better.  This lines up with Mthebold's recent post of agreeing to pay even more for an overall better life.  This is wealth that should stay home.  This makes it easy for U. S. corporations to do that.

But wait, it get's better.  The United states will now attract foreign money.  Better than the rest of the world we offer social stability, a great consumer's market and, now with a progressive, "business friendly" tax,  why wouldn't you want to set up shop in the U. S.?

I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make him drink.  However, I can run him around the lake a few times till he's thirsty.  I believe it's good fiscal policy in action.

-Mike

 

We benefit by saving and producing--neither of which we do anymore. We used to be the biggest creditor nation in the world and now we are the biggest debtor nation in the world. We are a nation with historical debt. Corporations have all-time high debt as do households. Interest rates at banks are practically non-existent--not to mention that we don't have any money to save anyways as the costs of everything continue to go up. The U.S. is an insolvent country and the tariffs will just make things worse for the average American not to mention American companies.

[Mike Marcellus + 157]

12 hours ago, HermitMunster said:

We benefit by saving and producing--neither of which we do anymore.

Thanks for the reply Hermit, I agree,  Don't you want to try to save and produce again?  But a reality is that our GDP will never be made up of the same mix of manufacturing vs. services as they were in the past.   And even when we do produce it takes less labor than before, technology is here to stay and grows exponentially.  I'm 48, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a 30 hour work week in my life time.

13 hours ago, HermitMunster said:

We used to be the biggest creditor nation in the world and now we are the biggest debtor nation in the world. We are a nation with historical debt. Corporations have all-time high debt as do households. Interest rates at banks are practically non-existent--not to mention that we don't have any money to save anyways as the costs of everything continue to go up. The U.S. is an insolvent country

I used to think  it was ultra-important to be debt-free, but I've been in debt past my eyeballs, my house has seen foreclosure paperwork more times than I remember,  but i have always followed the golden rule "live to fight another day".  Today things are better, my mortgage is current.  Debt free is perhaps more a comfort, not a necessity.  Maybe you are right about the debt problem, but maybe it's tuned around by producing more.

 

13 hours ago, HermitMunster said:

the tariffs will just make things worse for the average American not to mention American companies.

Time will tell.  But recall, the debate was started by Jan citing the 350 jobs that were added this summer to the Republic steel plant in Lorain, OH.  I live in approximately 45 minutes from Lorain, so I am definitely interested in the story.  And if need be, I could go meet the Americans that have been recalled to work, then I could visit the barber and grocery store in the neighborhood too.  Will the company follow through with the 1000 more steel workers,,, all they can do is try.

I would like to add that a key ingredient to the corporate tax cuts from 35% to 21% is simplifying the tax code.  Which probably didn't happen as much as I would have liked.  Collecting either rate is contingent on closing the loopholes that corporations use to pay as little as possible. And when you are done closing as many loopholes as you can, you need to recognize that you will need to do it again, in the future.  People and companies will find new loopholes, it's a cycle, because it's human nature to keep more for you and yours. Simplify the code.

 

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

6 minutes ago, Mike Marcellus said:

Time will tell.  But recall, the debate was started by Jan citing the 350 jobs that were added this summer to the Republic steel plant in Lorain, OH.  I live in approximately 45 minutes from Lorain, so I am definitely interested in the story.  And if need be, I could go meet the Americans that have been recalled to work, then I could visit the barber and grocery store in the neighborhood too.  Will the company follow through with the 1000 more steel workers,,, all they can do is try.

I would like to add that a key ingredient to the corporate tax cuts from 35% to 21% is simplifying the tax code.  Which probably didn't happen as much as I would have liked.  Collecting either rate is contingent on closing the loopholes that corporations use to pay as little as possible.

I started this thread with the observation that things were rapidly changing, for the better, in Lorain, Ohio, a rather gritty steel town on the shore of Lake Erie.  From there it has taken on a life of its own, blossomed into political-science discussions of debt and corporate tax rates and whatever.  OK, let me focus again on how I started this.  I made the observation that the Trump steel tariffs were having this immediate effect, in that it slammed the door shut on dumped steel.  That in turn rapidly motivates domestic producers to start up idled plant. Is the product flowing from that idled plant now going to cost more than dumped steel?  That's a safe bet.  And so what?  If you want to re-industrialize America, and you want the blue-collar manufacturing jobs back in the USA instead of sitting somewhere else, then this is what you do. 

Now, does the US economy need to "export" production in order to survive?  Answer: no, it does not.  The US is quite capable of being an entirely self-contained economy, excepting the import of various raw materials.  It did so in the past. As recently as 1956 only 9% of US consumed volumes flowed from or to offshore.  You can shrink by 9% and after it adjusts you have a completely self-contained economy.  And here is the kicker:  due to structural constraints, no other Country can do that.  The rest of the planet has to go play in other sandboxes in order to have a sustainable standard of living compatible with supporting an urban population.  Yes, you can have a China-style agricultural economy, based on vast labor absorption in rice production, but it is and would remain a peasant economy, not compatible with a society where some 50% is already urban.  

Whether or not the Trump tariffs flow from some brilliance of Donald Trump or if they flow from gross misunderstanding of how trade works is not the point; it might be interesting in some intellectual sense but that was not the starting point of the discussion. The fact remains that we are seeing an immediate result:  Lorain, Ohio is a bit of a bellweather, and I would have to suspect that other devastated, impoverished communities will be following suit. 

Now, let's assume for a moment that certain consumer goods built in Mexico get whacked with heavy tariffs or quotas or both.  For example, take washing machines formerly built by the Maytag brand  (which sold out to Whirlpool Corp., and they kept the brand label).  Those washing machines used to be manufactured in Newton, Iowa; that plant was closed, the fabricating went to Mexico, and the administration went to the rich outskirts of Benton Harbor, Michigan, a totally impoverished and ravaged town on the East Shore of Lake Michigan.  Benton Harbor stands out as an all-black town, flat broke, surrounded by wealthy (or at least wealthier) white suburb communities.  It used to manufacture appliances for Whirlpool, until the company abandoned the town.  Right now, the town is flat broke, having been under State Administration by a parachuted dictator from the Governor.  

Now, "if" imported washing machines get hit with a 60% tariff, will that production flow back into the USA?  Of course it will.  "Where" is uncertain;  probably not back to Benton Harbor, which is consigned to be yet another poor, black, and abandoned ex-industrial town, worse even than Gary, Indiana, which at least has an old steel mill to go resuscitate.  But it does mean that "somewhere" is going to get a big boost. Either Whirlpool produces goods inside the manufacturing towns of the USA, or someone else will and eat their lunch.  And that means that the classic blue-collar jobs held by guys with high school educations are going to come back in force. Will that change America?  You bet it will.

And that is the power of tariffs.  You can force-feed the resumption of those types of industrial jobs, whether it is the manufacture of bronze valve bodies in a casting line in Bridgeport, Connecticut, or a re-start of washing machines in Newton, Iowa, or diesel rail locomotives in Indiana, and everything else.  The US market is big enough to support those domestic plants - if they are shielded with either a tariff wall or a quota.  Will it be "inefficient" in some Milton Friedmanesque sense?  But of course.  Does anybody really care?  Only Milton Friedman. 

When you separate yourself from ultra-right-wing orthodoxy with their ideas of "free trade brings bonanzas"  (which it does, for them), and you look at this critically, those tariff walls have an immediate direct benefit.  Will they result in the rebuild of the vast mileage of old steel mills between Allentown and Bethlehem, Pennsylvania?  Probably not; that business model is no longer there. But will it push another dozen steel plants to open up inside the USA?  Sure looks like it.  And you can make of that what you will. 

[HermitMunster + 146]

4 hours ago, Mike Marcellus said:

Thanks for the reply Hermit, I agree,  Don't you want to try to save and produce again?  But a reality is that our GDP will never be made up of the same mix of manufacturing vs. services as they were in the past.   And even when we do produce it takes less labor than before, technology is here to stay and grows exponentially.  I'm 48, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a 30 hour work week in my life time.

I used to think  it was ultra-important to be debt-free, but I've been in debt past my eyeballs, my house has seen foreclosure paperwork more times than I remember,  but i have always followed the golden rule "live to fight another day".  Today things are better, my mortgage is current.  Debt free is perhaps more a comfort, not a necessity.  Maybe you are right about the debt problem, but maybe it's tuned around by producing more.

 

Time will tell.  But recall, the debate was started by Jan citing the 350 jobs that were added this summer to the Republic steel plant in Lorain, OH.  I live in approximately 45 minutes from Lorain, so I am definitely interested in the story.  And if need be, I could go meet the Americans that have been recalled to work, then I could visit the barber and grocery store in the neighborhood too.  Will the company follow through with the 1000 more steel workers,,, all they can do is try.

I would like to add that a key ingredient to the corporate tax cuts from 35% to 21% is simplifying the tax code.  Which probably didn't happen as much as I would have liked.  Collecting either rate is contingent on closing the loopholes that corporations use to pay as little as possible. And when you are done closing as many loopholes as you can, you need to recognize that you will need to do it again, in the future.  People and companies will find new loopholes, it's a cycle, because it's human nature to keep more for you and yours. Simplify the code.

 

 

 

Our tax code favors debt--hence all of our debt. Look at Tesla's stock price after it announced its earnings yesterday--we are in a parallel universe. Their balance sheet looks like shit yet the stock goes up. Trump paid for the tax cuts with debt. How much more debt are we going to undertake?

[jaycee + 348]

4 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Now, does the US economy need to "export" production in order to survive?  Answer: no, it does not.  The US is quite capable of being an entirely self-contained economy, excepting the import of various raw materials.

How do you think the brave new world of a closed America is going to stop the massive inflation that what you propose will bring? Cost of goods will go up due to the increased costs of being made in America, maybe workers will be happy to support their fellow man but I suspect they will not and will demand higher wages to live which will lead to layoffs or higher costs for goods then we start the spiral again. Once inflation takes hold it is hard to get rid off. The US needs to import cheap goods from China etc to keep inflation down.

Getting Apple, Google etc to repatriate to the US and pay taxes is a great idea however if the US won’t let the rest of the world access to the US market why will the rest of the world let these tech giants etc enter their markets just to pay taxes to the US so therefore lower tax returns to the US as Eastern tech companies fill the void. Same can be said for other industries what jobs will these laid off workers do?  Economic reality, not 'ultra-right-wing orthodoxy' will bring the dream down I suggest.

Some numbers to finish

The United States is the 2nd largest export economy in the world. In 2016, the United States exported $1.32T and imported $2.12T, resulting in a negative trade balance of $791B. In 2016 the GDP of the United States was $18.6T and its GDP per capita was $57.6k.

The top exports of the United States are Planes, Helicopters, and/or Spacecraft ($59.2B), refined Petroleum ($57.3B), Cars ($55.1B), Gas Turbines ($45.8B) and Integrated Circuits ($38.3B), using the 1992 revision of the HS (Harmonized System) classification. Its top imports are Cars ($172B), Crude Petroleum ($99B), Computers ($86.5B), Packaged Medicaments ($68.1B) and Vehicle Parts ($66.9B).

Which leads to the simple question. What are the workers in America who manufacture these goods currently going to do when nobody will buy them due to tariffs or increased price due to higher input costs?

[HermitMunster + 146]

Yet another reason that forced Trump's hand with possible more tariffs is that as several banks have recently pointed out, the Yuan devaluation to date has effectively offset the adverse impact to Beijing from the $34 billion in tariffs enacted on Chinese goods, mainly machinery and components (to which China retaliated with tariffs on the same amount of U.S. exports, especially farm products).

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 hours ago, jaycee said:

How do you think the brave new world of a closed America is going to stop the massive inflation that what you propose will bring? 

 

Which leads to the simple question. What are the workers in America who manufacture these goods currently going to do when nobody will buy them due to tariffs or increased price due to higher input costs?

Jay, I am left with the impression that the concept of inflation is getting past you.  Inflation has zip to do with price points.  Inflation takes place when the money supply is increased (ergo, "inflated"), with more dollars chasing after the supply of goods.  

The price point of a good will shift as the input costs change, assuming there is vigorous competition and the price is chasing the marginal cost of production. Ultimately, all pricing will converge on the marginal cost of production, unless there is a cartel that distorts the pricing mechanism. 

Getting past that, the specific goods in each segment that you cite that are big export items are the military goods. For example, Pratt sells combat jet engines to the Polish Air Force on credits extended by Washington under NATO auspices.  The main reason the USA does not sell aircraft carriers to its allies is that, at $13.5 billion each  (airplanes extra), nobody can afford them. For example, the Canadians are down to one 43-year-old destroyer for their entire blue-water navy, and that conked out on its last cruise and had to be towed back to Halifax, where it was pronounced unrepairable.  That navy is left with some small coastal subchaser frigates and two rented supply ships, one from Chile and another from Spain. The new icebreaker for Arctic service is years behind building schedule, they cannot even handle that.  So forget the idea those guys are going to procure heavy military goods, they don't have the cash. 

Now, as to the imports, the US hardly needs to import cars.  That 172 billion can be built here.  Crude petroleum is a bit more difficult, but coal is a substitute good.  Medicines are now imported from India, China,  Israel, and Slovenia, nothing there that cannot be duplicated in US plants, let's get serious, hardly a challenge.  You really don't have anything out there so unique that it cannot be easily duplicated inside the USA. 

Now, if the labor force of the USA is "displaced" due to a dissolution of exports (which probably would not happen, but let's assume it did), then it would immediately be put to work manufacturing very-large-diameter steel and concrete pipe, and in construction laying that pipe from the far north of the country  (specifically, Devil's Lake, North Dakota, and Duluth, Minnesota) down to West and Central Texas.  That new pipe and canal maze would carry fresh water into the central States and the South and Southwest, which is headed for an epic drought of biblical proportions.  You would need to put several million more men to work cutting up and removing the accumulated fire load in the Western forests.  There is no shortage of work out there.  What is short is intelligent leadership. 

[jaycee + 348]

12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Jay, I am left with the impression that the concept of inflation is getting past you.  Inflation has zip to do with price points.  Inflation takes place when the money supply is increased (ergo, "inflated"), with more dollars chasing after the supply of goods. 

The definition of inflation is defined as thus...

Inflation is basically a rise in prices.

A more exact definition of inflation is a situation of a sustained increase in the general price level in an economy. Inflation means an increase in the cost of living as the price of goods and services rise.

https://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/inflation/definition/

There is no mention of increased money supply therefore my statement that rising cost of goods is inflationary which will have to be met with rising wages which then increases the cost of goods etc the solution is importing cheaper goods otherwise you get an inflationary spiral.

12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Getting past that, the specific goods in each segment that you cite that are big export items are the military goods.

Military equipment may not get affected so much but if the costs are too high to by a new naval ship the purchase will

 

12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Crude petroleum is a bit more difficult, but coal is a substitute good

But is more expensive therefore inflationary…

12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Now, as to the imports, the US hardly needs to import cars.  That 172 billion can be built here

But what about those that you export? America is the 3rd largest exporter of cars in the world that's a hell of a lot to be abosorbed into the US market.

 

12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Medicines are now imported from India, China,  Israel, and Slovenia, nothing there that cannot be duplicated in US plants

Sure if you build the plants, not cheap, plus break the patent laws as many of those drugs will not belong to US companies.

 

12 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Now, if the labor force of the USA is "displaced" due to a dissolution of exports (which probably would not happen, but let's assume it did), then it would immediately be put to work manufacturing very-large-diameter steel and concrete pipe, and in construction laying that pipe from the far north of the country  (specifically, Devil's Lake, North Dakota, and Duluth, Minnesota) down to West and Central Texas. 

Seriously? Where are the factories that make these pipes I don’t think they exist will there be one is there one near every factory that will lose workers? Who will pay for this, the American government is heavily in debt as it is, Are the workers fit or skilled to do the new jobs? Will there be enough jobs at the same level as before? Can the workers  afford the likely pay drop? Can the workers relocate to the North to lay these pipes? Sorry I don’t see this as a practical solution on many levels, just a pipe dream

Edited August 3, 2018 by jaycee

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 hour ago, jaycee said:

Sorry I don’t see this as a practical solution on many levels, just a pipe dream

Jay, you overlook the "can do" optimism and spirit of the Americans.  There is none of the defeatist British thinking here.  If the Americans decide to build a huge water pipeline, then they will.  They start at Devil's Lake, North Dakota, run the first hundred miles to the Southwest to the Missouri River, use that as a conduit to Pierre, South Dakota, then build an 8-foot or 10-foot pipe South along the Route 83 all the way to West Texas.  Now all the flood waters that wash out the Red River towns and the Upper Missouri all get diverted to drain back into the aquifers underneath the Midwestern States and Texas, recharging the groundwaters.  It is totally practical, totally doable, and in my view, both logical and inevitable. 

The Americans can do anything they want to.  You consistently underestimate the Americans. Don't do that. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[jaycee + 348]

50 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

The Americans can do anything they want to.  You consistently underestimate the Americans. Don't do that. 

If you have enough money anything is possible and Amercia used to be rich but now has a lot of debts different world these days for America. The British were far more can do than the US they took the entire Indian sub continent and put it in the Empire with very few troops in fact there are only 22 countries in the world the British Empire did not invade hardly shrinking violets with a negative attitude. The attitude changed with the fall of the empire as you would expect when the whole world changes you suddenly realise why things fail and become more cautious and off course you have less money and power for large scale projects. To me America is decaying it has over spent on wars for years that did not enrichen it now a new power is rising in China and they are very close to taking over. To me these sanctions are the last throw of the dice at putting China down but China are a very 'can do' nation,...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653497/British-have-invaded-nine-out-of-ten-countries-so-look-out-Luxembourg.html

Anyway I presume you agree with my inflation definition and can see my point that tarriffs are not going to be good long term for the US which is where I came in on this thread.

Edited August 3, 2018 by jaycee

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, jaycee said:

Anyway I presume you agree with my inflation definition and can see my point that tarriffs are not going to be good long term for the US which is where I came in on this thread.

Nope, do not agree.  

Additionally, whether or not tariffs are a "good thing" or a "bad thing" is entirely a function of how they are applied and how they are reacted to.  In that, the jury is out, and I suspect will remain out for some time to come.  Trump anticipates that his tariffs will force new negotiations on trade.  Looks like they will.  will the USA gain advantage?  Probably.  If others want to play in the USA sandbox, then they have to play by Trump's Rules, even if those rules are whacky, even if they don't like it.  (You can also choose not to play, but this is not particularly appetizing for the USA's trade partners, not so far.  Might be for Britain, we shall see how that plays out). 

[jaycee + 348]

2 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

(You can also choose not to play, but this is not particularly appetizing for the USA's trade partners, not so far.  Might be for Britain, we shall see how that plays out). 

No deal is better than a bad deal according to the UK in our dealings with Brexit I am sure they will apply the same logic to trade deals with the US as will other countries.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 minutes ago, jaycee said:

No deal is better than a bad deal according to the UK in our dealings with Brexit I am sure they will apply the same logic to trade deals with the US as will other countries.

SO what?  Nobody in America cares if the Brits decide not to trade with us.  Not even on the radar as a tiny little blip.  

There is nothing that comes from England to the USA that has any significance.  Nothing. 

[jaycee + 348]

1 minute ago, Jan van Eck said:

SO what?  Nobody in America cares if the Brits decide not to trade with us.  Not even on the radar as a tiny little blip.  

There is nothing that comes from England to the USA that has any significance.  Nothing. 

lol you are getting very nationalistic it was you who brought nationalities into this suggesting the UK are defeatist I have pointed out history does not suggest that now you are trying to say nobody cares if the UK trades with the US well probably not however its China that America is having a trade war with and what we are discussing trade deals have not even started between the UK and the US and its not a priority in the UK just now I can assure you.

I think we should end this discussion as its not focusing on economic facts and is degenerating into nationalism and I for one am not a nationalist I really don’t care about which country is the most successful only how they affect the world I live in.

ps I am not English

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

This also applies, in large degree, to goods coming out of China.  Meaning MOST U.S. companies that switched production to China did so to increase company profits, but not to make profits.  By and large the companies that made this kind of move did so not because the company was failing, they did it to increase share price which in turn results in increased CEO/management compensation, workers be damned.  Look at it, if a company is making a profit of say 5-10% on goods they produce in the U.S. and they find out they can make the same product in China and make a profit of 15+%, what do you think they will do?  The goods we are talking about were originally designed and in most cases already manufactured in the U.S.  China didn't come up with products that we were lacking, they just took our products and produced them cheaper, or reverse engineered them, produced them more cheaply and stole market share that way.  Either way, the U.S. consumer was largely unaware of the cost savings reaped by the companies, nor did they care.  To argue that all those workers displaced by their executives moving production overseas would not happily go back to work, even at reduced wages, is ludicrous.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

Just now, jaycee said:

lol you are getting very nationalistic it was you who brought nationalities into this suggesting the UK are defeatist I have pointed out history does not suggest that now you are trying to say nobody cares if the UK trades with the US well probably not however its China that America is having a trade war with and what we are discussing trade deals have not even started between the UK and the US and its not a priority in the UK just now I can assure you.

I think we should end this discussion as its not focusing on economic facts and is degenerating into nationalism and I for one am not a nationalist I really don’t care about which country is the most successful only how they affect the world I live in.

ps I am not English

Guess what, I am not American. 

Nothing "nationalistic" about what I have posted, merely the basic truths about America and Americans.  I again maintain that Americans are totally "can do" people and they can and will do whatever they set their collective minds to.  In that, they are totally unique on the face of the planet.  Nobody else even comes close.  

It is what it is. 

[jaycee + 348]

41 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

I again maintain that Americans are totally "can do" people and they can and will do whatever they set their collective minds to.  In that, they are totally unique on the face of the planet.  Nobody else even comes close.  

Lol I have met most races on this planet, Eskimos I definitely havent the rest I am not sure, and Americans are not special in any way trust me they have their good points and their bad they are not special. As for 'can do' have a look at China now that country can do anything it puts its mind to and a lot faster than anyone else.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

6 minutes ago, jaycee said:

Lol I have met most races on this planet, Eskimos I definitely havent the rest I am not sure, and Americans are not special in any way trust me they have their good points and their bad they are not special. As for 'can do' have a look at China now that country can do anything it puts its mind to and a lot faster than anyone else.

Not really.  Americans are not a specific genetic breed, as are Eskimos or Chinese.  They are an amalgam of migrants, the most energetic, ingenious, clever, adaptive, inventive and entrepreneurial people of the planet all drawn together by one common purpose and thinking, the idea that personal freedom unleashes the most productive thinking. You throw all these disparate people together, into the "melting pot," and they proceed to marry and reproduce, and you have Americans as the product. You just can't beat it, because they are the collective best of the best.  A most amazing evolution, to be sure. 

Will America survive the assaults of the dark side of the Force?  Ah, there's the rub:  does this genius contain the seeds of its own destruction?  We shall find out soon enough.  Personally, I think Americans will come out on top no matter what.  It is rather in the national character.  It will survive Trump and Mnuchin and Wilbur Ross and the lunkheads at the NSA.  America does well, not because of Washington, but in spite of Washington.  Outsiders don't seem to understand that. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Jan van Eck

[jaycee + 348]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

Not really.  Americans are not a specific genetic breed, as are Eskimos or Chinese.  They are an amalgam of migrants, the most energetic, ingenious, clever, adaptive, inventive and entrepreneurial people of the planet all drawn together by one common purpose and thinking, the idea that personal freedom unleashes the most productive thinking. You throw all these disparate people together, into the "melting pot," and they proceed to marry and reproduce, and you have Americans as the product. You just can't beat it, because they are the collective best of the best.  A most amazing evolution, to be sure. 

Will America survive the assaults of the dark side of the Force?  Ah, there's the rub:  does this genius contain the seeds of its own destruction?  We shall find out soon enough.  Personally, I think Americans will come out on top no matter what.  It is rather in the national character.  It will survive Trump and Mnuchin and Wilbur Ross and the lunkheads at the NSA.  America does well, not because of Washington, but in spite of Washington.  Outsiders don't seem to understand that. 

Jan

I am working with Americans right now and how some of them find their way to work in the morning amazes me others are fine engineers but none strike me as being the supermen you descibe they seem like your average mix of people, I suggest you take the rose tinted glasses off.

Lets leave it at that.

[Rodent + 1,424]

7 minutes ago, jaycee said:

Jan

I am working with Americans right now and how some of them find their way to work in the morning amazes me others are fine engineers but none strike me as being the supermen you descibe

We literally invented Superman. So I don't think it's fair to say "none".

[jaycee + 348]

5 minutes ago, Rodent said:

We literally invented Superman. So I don't think it's fair to say "none".

lol OK 1 American Superman I will give you that. Wait he wasn't born in America he was born on Krypton he better watch out Trump will send him home :0)

Edited August 3, 2018 by jaycee

[Rodent + 1,424]

3 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

SO what?  Nobody in America cares if the Brits decide not to trade with us.  Not even on the radar as a tiny little blip.  

There is nothing that comes from England to the USA that has any significance.  Nothing. 

Two words: Daniel. Craig.